Retired Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/29/AR2009102904474_4.html?sid=ST2009103002365 15 abortions :ohmy: I am pro life and disturbed by this ladies behavior. But I also felt sorry for her. It seem her current dh is a good man that is understanding and helping her heal. She now has kids and planning on home schooling. Article Quote "She says children are the great joys of her life now. She bought supplies for two full Montessori classrooms, and used them to convert a large portion of their house into learning spaces to home-school her daughters. "I just so much enjoy being with them," she says. "Very shortly, they'll be grown up." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 15 abortions :ohmy: I am pro life and disturbed by this ladies behavior. But I also felt sorry for her. I'm pro-choice, and I'm disturbed by her behavior! I don't understand how someone could be addicted to abortions. I'm an open-minded person, and I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I'm having a hard time fathoming this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I hope for her children's sake that she is getting very good psychological care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 What kind of doctor performed the 13th, 14th and 15th?! (Or the 6th or 7th...)Isn't there a safety issue, to say the very least? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) I'm pro-choice, and I'm disturbed by her behavior! I don't understand how someone could be addicted to abortions. I'm an open-minded person, and I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I'm having a hard time fathoming this one. You took the words out of my mouth. Rather like plastic surgery; it's one thing to have your nose done because you've been self conscious of it your whole life, something else entirely to have yourself altered into the same proportions as Barbie or looking like a cat. At some point, you'd think someone in the professional realm would catch on that there is a larger psychological issue going on there. What kind of doctor performed the 13th, 14th and 15th?! (Or the 6th or 7th...)Isn't there a safety issue, to say the very least? I would imagine there are safety issues in bearing 20 children, as well... Not implying "justification" in one or "wrongness" in the other, just that there are relative risks associated with any overuse of our organs. Edited October 31, 2009 by MyCrazyHouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 :blink: I agree a responsible medical professional should have recommended counseling. It is possible that she did run in to some doctors that did, but unfortunately all they can do is recommend and make a referral. It is the patient who will either heed the advice or find another doctor that will do it. And unfortunately, there is always someone else if you look hard enough. It's just mind-boggling to me that an attack of conscious didn't hit her any sooner, I mean 15!! Didn't she say that she almost died with one of them. Still no wake-up call??!! I agree with Angela, I hope she is seeking professional help now. Writing a memoir can be cathartic but it doesn't resolve all those deep seeded issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Makes me literally want to vomit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I hate it when people use the word 'addiction' to indicate a compulsion. I believe that she was compelled to have all these abortions, most likely due to some mental illness. (I'm pro-choice, not saying that people who choose abortion are mentally ill, but I think that perhaps SHE is!) I do not believe that her pathology fits the model of addiction. I do not believe that she would have gone into withdrawl, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHGrandma Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/29/AR2009102904474_4.html?sid=ST2009103002365 15 abortions :ohmy: I am pro life and disturbed by this ladies behavior. But I also felt sorry for her. It seem her current dh is a good man that is understanding and helping her heal. She now has kids and planning on home schooling. Article Quote "She says children are the great joys of her life now. She bought supplies for two full Montessori classrooms, and used them to convert a large portion of their house into learning spaces to home-school her daughters. "I just so much enjoy being with them," she says. "Very shortly, they'll be grown up." She bought supplies for two full Montessori classrooms. I think her compulsive nature has a new outlet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I would imagine there are safety issues in bearing 20 children, as well... Not implying "justification" in one or "wrongness" in the other, just that there are relative risks associated with any overuse of our organs. I'm pro-choice, too, but this woman obviously is mentally ill - she all but says so in the article when she talks about the high of starting and stopping pregnancies. Any medical professional who enabled her along the way is not deserving of being in the field that works with women in this capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 What kind of doctor performed the 13th, 14th and 15th?! (Or the 6th or 7th...)Isn't there a safety issue, to say the very least? :001_huh: My question would be what abortion doctor is going to say no to performing an abortion based on the number of previous abortions? The number alone makes it obvious that she was quite serious about having each and every one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 She bought supplies for two full Montessori classrooms. I think her compulsive nature has a new outlet. At least that is a compulsion I can relate too (as can many curric junkies) but to have 15 abortions just makes me sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 There is nothing normal about this woman. The story is reality show or Jerry Springer sensational and really has no relevance to either homeschooling or your average pregnancy termination. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 That makes me feel extremely sad, I guess I would say, more than sick; sad for the mother and what her life must've been like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I don't do the whole abortion thing so not sure about the physical aspects. Is it possible she went to different Dr.'s and maybe lied about having or not having so many?? Could they tell? I don't understand the "high" that comes with ending a pregnancy? I mean is like a control issue or something maybe? The whole thing is down right horrifying to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I don't get the idea of someone making abysmal choices and then deciding that their actions are something to write a book about. Some people are simply publicity hounds. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 What sort of response did they expect? Aw, gee, I'm so sorry you chose to do that, let's get a cup of coffee... or... Wow, that's way cool, glad you're recovering! I just don't understand any aspect of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I'm pro-choice, too, but this woman obviously is mentally ill - she all but says so in the article when she talks about the high of starting and stopping pregnancies. Any medical professional who enabled her along the way is not deserving of being in the field that works with women in this capacity. I completely agree (and did so in my paragraph above my response to your question) that somebody should have addressed this obvious mental illness. I just don't know that there is an increasing concern for physical safety as you rack up the abortions. (I just wanted to clarify that. ;)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 What sort of response did they expect? Aw, gee, I'm so sorry you chose to do that, let's get a cup of coffee... or... Wow, that's way cool, glad you're recovering! I just don't understand any aspect of this. Yes, I wonder that, too. And how, exactly, is this supposed to be such a great help to young women? :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I wonder if any of this had to do with her relationship to the fathers. Hurting them or getting their attention, or something like that. Years ago my college roommate's very quacking-New York accented mother came to stay for a month. She told me after her husband died and left her with three small children to support, she'd get 3 or 4 guys "on the hook" (each one of whom thought he was the only guy in her life), get pregnant, and hit all of them up for the money for a good illegal abortion. It was how she made a living. She loved her kids, quite clearly, and the abortions were just "business". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Yes, I wonder that, too. And how, exactly, is this supposed to be such a great help to young women? :confused: I think her general point was to never allow oneself (especially as a young woman) to become immersed in a relationship wherein one feels trapped, psychologically and/or physically abused, and desperate enough that one would seek out such a self deprecating, potentially life threatening means in which to "feel"; specifically, in which to feel capable of any kind of life, be it one's own, or that of another's. Even if the end result is death. There is a great deal of research in both psychology and psychiatry dealing with people who self harm in multiple ways (cutting, burning, hair pulling, extreme self-mutilation, deliberate abusive relationships, etc.) as a means to "pull out of the numbness" that they continually feel, whether it be rooted in clinical depression, childhood abuse, or any of a number of personality disorders. Every single one of these people express that they feel a "release" or a "high" when they perform the self mutilating behavior. And, they do - there is an endorphin release for them - it is nature's response to extreme pain as an evolutionary method to allow species to continue to function after injury. Is what this woman did right? I wouldn't say so. But then again, I didn't walk in her shoes, and I don't exist in her (obviously troubled) mind. I would hazard a guess that she can't condemn herself at this point for her past actions. Were she to do so, whatever personality she has managed to reformulate for herself would crumble. And while there may be people who would think that is what she "deserves", is that what her children deserve? And is society best served by one more person with a fully fractured personality? (feeling a bit philosophical this morning) asta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 She told me after her husband died and left her with three small children to support, she'd get 3 or 4 guys "on the hook" (each one of whom thought he was the only guy in her life), get pregnant, and hit all of them up for the money for a good illegal abortion. It was how she made a living. She loved her kids, quite clearly, and the abortions were just "business". Why bother actually getting pregnant? I'd think she'd be able to extract money from them with the claim of pregnancy alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisperry Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I think her general point was to never allow oneself (especially as a young woman) to become immersed in a relationship wherein one feels trapped, psychologically and/or physically abused, and desperate enough that one would seek out such a self deprecating, potentially life threatening means in which to "feel"; specifically, in which to feel capable of any kind of life, be it one's own, or that of another's. Even if the end result is death. There is a great deal of research in both psychology and psychiatry dealing with people who self harm in multiple ways (cutting, burning, hair pulling, extreme self-mutilation, deliberate abusive relationships, etc.) as a means to "pull out of the numbness" that they continually feel, whether it be rooted in clinical depression, childhood abuse, or any of a number of personality disorders. Every single one of these people express that they feel a "release" or a "high" when they perform the self mutilating behavior. And, they do - there is an endorphin release for them - it is nature's response to extreme pain as an evolutionary method to allow species to continue to function after injury. Is what this woman did right? I wouldn't say so. But then again, I didn't walk in her shoes, and I don't exist in her (obviously troubled) mind. I would hazard a guess that she can't condemn herself at this point for her past actions. Were she to do so, whatever personality she has managed to reformulate for herself would crumble. And while there may be people who would think that is what she "deserves", is that what her children deserve? And is society best served by one more person with a fully fractured personality? (feeling a bit philosophical this morning) asta :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Makes me literally want to vomit. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntPol Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I know several women who have had 5 or more abortions. I know one that has had at least 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 So basically we're talking about a serial killer who decided to write a book about her death decisions? That's just lovely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoftwinboys Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 So basically we're talking about a serial killer who decided to write a book about her death decisions? That's just lovely! :001_huh:Wow.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I stand by the post I wrote above. However. It never ceases to amaze me the vitriol that is espoused towards other human beings on this board. Yes, vitriol. Especially when so many of the threads on this board are titled with "CC" or "CC only, please", and so many of the posts are peppered with biblical quotations. WWJD? Well, I sure as heck doubt he'd be wandering around a message board calling a sick woman a serial killer. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoftwinboys Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 :iagree: I stand by the post I wrote above. However. It never ceases to amaze me the vitriol that is espoused towards other human beings on this board. Yes, vitriol. Especially when so many of the threads on this board are titled with "CC" or "CC only, please", and so many of the posts are peppered with biblical quotations. WWJD? Well, I sure as heck doubt he'd be wandering around a message board calling a sick woman a serial killer. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I stand by the post I wrote above. However. It never ceases to amaze me the vitriol that is espoused towards other human beings on this board. Yes, vitriol. Especially when so many of the threads on this board are titled with "CC" or "CC only, please", and so many of the posts are peppered with biblical quotations. WWJD? Well, I sure as heck doubt he'd be wandering around a message board calling a sick woman a serial killer. a Whatever. If you're going to open your life in a tell-all book then expect to reap some condemnation. I happen to agree with TexasT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoftwinboys Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Condemnation from people who judge(and have no right too), yes... From people who realize that we are all sinners, no... I'm sure your sins hurt Jesus just as much as her sins do, no more, no less.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I stand by the post I wrote above. Well, I sure as heck doubt he'd be wandering around a message board calling a sick woman a serial killer. a He spoke truth and offered healing. Murdering 15 humans, by definition, is being a serial killer. I'm sorry if a truthful definition offends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Condemnation from people who judge(and have no right too), yes...From people who realize that we are all sinners, no... I'm sure your sins hurt Jesus just as much as her sins do, no more, no less.. People so despise when truth is called truth. Making a choice to kill that many people is wrong. It's not judging or condemning. I stated a fact! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Whatever. If you're going to open your life in a tell-all book then expect to reap some condemnation. I happen to agree with TexasT. Thank you!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Condemnation from people who judge(and have no right too), yes...From people who realize that we are all sinners, no... I'm sure your sins hurt Jesus just as much as her sins do, no more, no less.. Not only is 15 abortions wrong and hideous. I question her ability to raise her kids. What if her sickness comes back and she hurts her children? I also think this woman is an opportunist. What kind of person writes a book about this??? She has no shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 People so despise when truth is called truth. Making a choice to kill that many people is wrong. It's not judging or condemning. I stated a fact! Uh. Anytime you decide something is right or wrong, you make a judgement. The only fact involved is that a woman decided to have multiple abortions. Fact and truth are not equivalent. By the tenets of Christianity, no one on earth judges. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Uh. Anytime you decide something is right or wrong, you make a judgement. The only fact involved is that a woman decided to have multiple abortions. Fact and truth are not equivalent. By the tenets of Christianity, no one on earth judges. a Not true. We do make judgements and we are to call the truth what it is. I get so tired of people who know nothing about Christianity trying to tell me how to be a Christian. I know you like to silence your opposition, asta. I've seen it time and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Not true. We do make judgements and we are to call the truth what it is. I get so tired of people who know nothing about Christianity trying to tell me how to be a Christian. I know you like to silence your opposition, asta. I've seen it time and again. BWA HA HA HA HA! This is one for the judgmental record books. Good night all of you blessed people! asta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Thank you!! :) Thank you. It takes guts to stand up on this board. So many are afraid of the tone here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoftwinboys Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 People so despise when truth is called truth. Making a choice to kill that many people is wrong. It's not judging or condemning. I stated a fact! I think everyone will agree it is wrong but your post was not to state a fact it was to judge her. Would Jesus have wrote that same post in that tone? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I think everyone will agree it is wrong but your post was not to state a fact it was to judge her. Would Jesus have wrote that same post in that tone? I don't think so. I think he would have said what she did was murder, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoftwinboys Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I think he would have said what she did was murder, yes. That I can agree with you on..totally...in the way it was said, no. I think he would have morned for them as well as for her. I think he would also mourn and be sad for the tone of that post...just my opinion.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 That I can agree with you on..totally...in the way it was said, no.I think he would have morned for them as well as for her. I think he would also mourn and be sad for the tone of that post...just my opinion.. You're right it is your opinion. I'm soooo tired of people taking up for someone who intentionally got pregnant and had 15 abortions and then wrote a book about it! There is no defending it as far as I'm concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the4Rs Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 True Blue and TexasT- I happen to agree with you too. It is disgusting and shows the deep depravity of her life. She basically said she came from a family of psychologically unstable people. But you know what, each of us has a choice. She chose to end those pregnancies. She liked the power of ending a life, because it made her feel more in control of her own. Ummmmm that is just plain wrong. Call me judgemental but she doesn't even sound remotely repentant of her actions. Typical - "Blame everyone else for what is wrong with me" mentality. I am leaving God to deal with her. I am not going to send a lynching mob after her because as a Christian I know she will one day answer for what she has done to a God who is the perfect judge. I rest assured in that but I am not going to sit by and say 'hey to each his own.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Uh. Anytime you decide something is right or wrong, you make a judgement. The only fact involved is that a woman decided to have multiple abortions. Fact and truth are not equivalent. By the tenets of Christianity, no one on earth judges. a Gosh, how will you ever manage to guide your children if you don't state that things are right and wrong. What about all these abuse threads lately? We make judgments daily, if we are wise, on what is right and what is wrong. Otherwise we're going to raise immoral children who won't stand for the good. If we aren't to judge, then you need to go talk to all the jailers and be sure you get all of the prisoners out of the prison system, because afterall, we just have no right to call them out for what they did!! Let's not define people who steal as thieves. Let's not define people who kill as murderers. Let's not define people who beat their spouses and children as abusers. People want to throw Jesus into things like this but just the comfy side. Jesus called sin sin. When people faced their sin, then they were able to call it what it was and repent. He didn't come into the world to sing kumbaya with us but to help us confront our sinfulness and get the forgiveness through his blood that we had NO WAY of attaining otherwise. To sugarcoat killing 15 human beings is not a benefit to this woman or to anyone else. I won't judge her in eternity because that is NOT my job. I do have the ability to state a dictionary definition of the things she did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Thank you. It takes guts to stand up on this board. So many are afraid of the tone here. Thank you!! :) You know what? I'm sick to death of watching the nonsensical "your truth is your truth and my truth is my truth" business here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Not only is 15 abortions wrong and hideous. I question her ability to raise her kids. What if her sickness comes back and she hurts her children? I had not even thought about that part. I could not get past the thoughts of those 15 innocent lives. Hopefully she will not do anything to hurt those other children, but when someone craves that control/power to the extend she does it is hard to tell. I wonder how things will go for her as the kids get bigger and push back wanting their own power kwim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoftwinboys Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 As you may be able to tell from my post count, I rarely ever post here on these boards. Now, I know why, I won't do it again. I apologize if I have contributed to allowing this to get at an elevated level at all. I have posted some Christian questions on here lately as I'm searching for truth in my walk as well. It does trouble me though the amount of judgement that some folks that are Christian have...it makes me personally feel like I'm not good enough to enter his kingdom with things I've done even if I have repented and asked for forgiveness. I pray for this woman-I hope she has repented and asked for forgiveness. And forgive me if I'm not *Christian* enough or don't understand the Bible completely and am teaching my children wrong, but I believe if she is truely sorry and has asked for forgiveness and has repented, she will be in heaven ...am I wrong? I will not add anymore to this thread in a negative way..blessings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 As you may be able to tell from my post count, I rarely ever post here on these boards. Now, I know why, I won't do it again. I apologize if I have contributed to allowing this to get at an elevated level at all. I have posted some Christian questions on here lately as I'm searching for truth in my walk as well. It does trouble me though the amount of judgement that some folks that are Christian have...it makes me personally feel like I'm not good enough to enter his kingdom with things I've done even if I have repented and asked for forgiveness. I pray for this woman-I hope she has repented and asked for forgiveness. And forgive me if I'm not *Christian* enough or don't understand the Bible completely and am teaching my children wrong, but I believe if she is truely sorry and has asked for forgiveness and has repented, she will be in heaven ...am I wrong? I will not add anymore to this thread in a negative way..blessings... I think you have a good heart. No one here questioned your being Christian enough, if anything I felt called on the carpet for my Christianity. Of course, God will forgive her. He's beyond loving and forgiving of all things. I believe my daily sins are just as bad. Sometimes though one has to say, this is not acceptable. It's not right to have 15 abortions, write a book about it, and make money from it. It's just not in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Perhaps more than judging this woman and posting highly charged opinions about her on public message boards, we could pray for her as we pray for our own selves. "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner" -- and as we pray that for ourselves (God knows I have to pray that hundreds of times a day), we can include *her* in this prayer as we pray -- "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on US." Another blessed prayer I have learned of late is "God, on the dread day of judgment, please do not condemn [her] for my sake." I do think we ought to purpose as Christians to learn to live in this life without judging others; I know I certainly have enough in myself that needs correcting to focus on without making public statements about the sins of others. Forgive if I have misspoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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