WWE 2 frustration

[Homemama2]

My ds is struggling with the dictation in the WWE 2 workbook. This week we are on week # 10 and this was his dictation sentence:

 

"I shall give you half an hour to be up, dressed, washed, teeth cleaned, pajamas folded, windows opened, and beds turned back."

 

Honestly, I struggled to remember which order the things were in (and we did like the book says and repeated it several times until he could say it to me. However somewhere during writing he couldn't remember the order).

 

Is it just me? Maybe I should make up my own sentences from his other reading? ( I have the WWE text too, but have been using the workbook since I already had it.) If this is what other 7yr olds are doing easily, then I don't want to be letting mine slack off by doing easy sentences, but it just seems like some of these sentences are....well....frustrating. :tongue_smilie:

[plain jane]

I wouldn't call them easy sentences- just wait until you get to the end of the book... :scared:

 

That being said, dd struggled with some of the sentences, especially closer to the middle when I found that they jumped up in difficulty. We persevered through it, even though they were really difficult for her, and sometimes, I'd have to pretty much give her the sentence word for word after she couldn't hold it in her head after 15 readings. :glare: I have to say, I'm glad I stuck it out through all that. We seem to have passed that hurdle and she's able to write the sentences with relative ease now. I'm not sure if she is finally learning the skill, if it was a maturation thing, or if she simply realized that I wasn't going to back off and stop doing the book:tongue_smilie:.

 

When the entire sentence was too hard I simply gave it to her in halves, figuring 1/2 was better than none. I don't know if it was the "right" thing to do, but I wanted to post and offer some encouragement. We thought level 2 was pretty tough here too, but now that we're on the flip side, it was not so bad afterall. :)

[Guest 4boys]

I don't use the workbook but we are doing WWE 2 and I don't give my son sentences that hard. I would have trouble remembering the order as well. I pick my own sentences.

[MeAndTheBoys]

I read it way more times than the instructions say to read it---

 

Or I read half of the sentence, let him catch up, and then read the other half.

 

We are doing dictation in other subjects--Sheldon's primary language lessons, Harp and Laurel Wreath, My Father's World, etc. and just things I"ve selected for extra practice, so I think in the whole process--he'll start to get it. But like the pp said, *I* have trouble remembering some of those long crazy sentences myself, so we're working through it.

 

Betsy

[In the Rain]

FWIW, my 8yo probably couldn't retain that whole sentence while trying to write it. We start Level 2 of WWE next week. I see things will get "interesting" quickly. :tongue_smilie:

[angela&4boys]

I'm the odd-man out here, but this is one reason why we dropped it. (Edit: We used WWE 1 in it's entirety.) While I love and utilize many PHP products, this just did not work for this particular ds. I wanted it to so badly as I think it's one of the very best writing progrmas available for the Grammar Stage, but when he groaned every time we pulled the book out, I knew I had to re-evaluate.

 

Still, I agree with the others. I'd say stick it out for a while. However, if you find your dc is frustrated consistently, you may need to set it aside for a while or look for something else.

 

Fwiw, my ds is highly visual and I think that added to his frustrations.

 

My 2 cents,

Edited October 22, 2009 by angela&4boys

[lmrich]

I, too, think it is ok to prompt him half way through. This is not memorization; it is great when they can do it independently, but I don't think that is the big idea. Did he use commas between the words? That is the point of the lesson, not listing them in order.

[Surfside Academy]

My son was struggling with the same thing to the point where he was in tears and I was extremely frustrated. I posted the same question and received some great suggestions which have helped tremendously. First, someone suggested that I allow him to read the sentence(s) along with me. Then I pull the book away and break down the passage into sections. Finally, I write down on a white board any words I know he's going to have problems spelling. That way he's not getting side-tracked.

 

Just a few minor tweaks and some patience have made a world of difference. We've finished up WWE2 and have moved onto 3 and his confidence level has greatly increased. It does get more difficult towards the end of the book (see Week 35, Day 3) but he was able to do it! Keep plugging along, it will get better!

[ally]

For what it's worth, my 7 yr olds are doing WWE 1 this year. They would find that sentence extremely difficult at this age.

[LibraryLover]

Is that a real sentence in the program? I'll admit that I have not purchased WWE. This kind of threat/sentence would turn me off, easy or hard. My child would find it easy to write, but it sounds like a threat and I wouldn't use it unless it was part of a joke.

Edited October 23, 2009 by LibraryLover

[abbeyej]

We had that sentence this week. I don't consider it excessively difficult, but I'm also quite willing to provide a prompt if necessary half way through the sentence.

 

Child is writing and saying to herself, "I shall give you half an hour to be up, dressed,... ... washed, ... paj--"

 

And I interrupt and say, "'Teeth cleaned' first, then pajamas..."

 

And she continues on her way. If she starts to write something incorrectly, I'll stop her and remind her (whether it's a missing comma or a rogue capital or a word out of order). I try not to say, "You need to capitalize that" if I can help it. I get her attention so that she'll look back and fix her own mistake. But if she has lost a word or isn't sure what comes next, I'll remind her of the next word or two.

 

I think the *goal* is to do that less and less. But I don't think it's wrong to need to remind them from time to time along the way. And I don't think it means the sentences are too hard. They *should* be at least a little bit challenging...

[LibraryLover]

We had that sentence this week. I don't consider it excessively difficult, but I'm also quite willing to provide a prompt if necessary half way through the sentence.

 

Child is writing and saying to herself, "I shall give you half an hour to be up, dressed,... ... washed, ... paj--"

 

And I interrupt and say, "'Teeth cleaned' first, then pajamas..."

 

And she continues on her way. If she starts to write something incorrectly, I'll stop her and remind her (whether it's a missing comma or a rogue capital or a word out of order). I try not to say, "You need to capitalize that" if I can help it. I get her attention so that she'll look back and fix her own mistake. But if she has lost a word or isn't sure what comes next, I'll remind her of the next word or two.

 

I think the *goal* is to do that less and less. But I don't think it's wrong to need to remind them from time to time along the way. And I don't think it means the sentences are too hard. They *should* be at least a little bit challenging...

 

 

My 10 yr old child could easily write this as dictation, but she would be asking, "Is this a joke?"

 

Susan, pleasse understand there are so many of us here who like what you do, but aren't into this particular style of parenting. :) Serioulsy, bridge the gap. There are a lot of us 'relaxed' peeps here. :tongue_smilie: And our children are not robbing banks. :D

[abbeyej]

Is that a real sentence in the program? I'll admit that I have not purchased WWE. This kind of threat/sentence would turn me off, easy or hard. My child would find it easy to write, but it sounds like a threat and I wouldn't use it unless it was part of a joke.

 

It's a quote from the book, Nurse Matilda (upon which the movie, Nanny McPhee is based). The story is about a large family of children (so many that we are never told exactly how many there are) who are unbelievably naughty. The quote is what Nurse Matilda tells them on the first day after she arrives. And yes, it's meant to be something of a threat at that point in the book.

[abbeyej]

My 10 yr old child could easily write this as dictation, but she would be asking, "Is this a joke?"

 

Susan, pleasse understand there are so many of us here who like what you do, but aren't into this particular style of parenting. :) Serioulsy, bridge the gap. There are a lot of us 'relaxed' peeps here. :tongue_smilie: And our children are not robbing banks. :D

 

See my note above. This is a quote from a children's book. Each week there are two selections from a single source for narration, and the copy work and dictation sentences are taken from the same work. This one was from Nurse Matilda and was used in part because recent dictation sentences have been reinforcing serial commas.

 

Other selections in WWE2 include Little House, 101 Dalmations, The Jungle Book, Pippi Longstocking, Pilgrim's Progress, The Patchwork Girl of Oz, Aesop's Fables, and many more.

[Penelope]

We're about halfway through and this was one of the harder dictations for ds. And he memorizes things fairly quickly and easily. Instead of twice which is typical, I had to go over this one with him probably 5 or 6 times til he got it. I would have no problem prompting him if he needed it partway through. Also remember, they are supposed to have also copied this sentence the day before, so it is not the first time they have heard it.

[2squared]

Wow. Do your second graders know how to spell all those words? Mine certainly can't.

 

We started late with wwe1, so my 2nd grader hasn't moved into wwe2 yet. Now I'm a little intimidated. :001_huh:

[Haiku]

My second grader's recent dictation was:

 

The "hammer" was Charles Martel, the new king of the Franks.

 

We are on week 4.

 

The sentence you quoted seems too difficult to me. I would have either given the sentence in chunks or made up a new sentence. I only have the textbook, and I have really enjoyed finding copywork and dictation sentences that work for us. I have heard that some of the sentences in the workbook are ridiculously difficult.

 

Tara

[iammommy]

Yes, I think it's a difficult sentence, even for my 10 year old or me! LOL Let him write what he can remember, the read him the rest of the sentence again. There's a fine line between challenging and frustrating a child. And as another poster said, the grammar is really the point of the lesson. It's not really memorization.

 

Nan

[abbeyej]

Wow. Do your second graders know how to spell all those words? Mine certainly can't.

 

We started late with wwe1, so my 2nd grader hasn't moved into wwe2 yet. Now I'm a little intimidated. :001_huh:

 

The sentence is used as copy work one day and dictation the next. So it is not entirely unfamiliar to the child.

[Strawberry Queen]

My dd has just finished week 9, so I guess that we'll have it next week.:001_smile: My dd is almost 7 and in 2nd. No, she can't spell the words and I help her with nearly all the words. She is not a natural speller. However, she can remember the sentences with some help.

 

This is how I do it. I will say the sentence 2 or 3 times. She will start to write it. Then, I will prompt the next word by repeating what she has already written to see if that will jump start the brain. After that I will tell her the word and we'll go through the laborious process of sounding out each part of the word and figuring out which letter makes which sound.:D

 

FWIW, my older dd had a harder time remembering sentences but an easier time writing them down. Keep persevering with the program. My older dd can now remember most of a 2 sentence dictation and we've been working on that for 2 years. BTW, doing this program has translated to my older dd loving to write.

[2squared]

The sentence is used as copy work one day and dictation the next. So it is not entirely unfamiliar to the child.

 

I understand the process. I anticipate that my perfectionist 7yo will get overwhelmed and shut down. She couldn't spell most of the words in that sentence (even after copying them once), and frequent spelling frustrations won't equal dictation success. I guess I'll see how it goes when we get that far.

[LibraryLover]

I hate it when I over-react to something simple. I was at my breaking point irl wrt folks cranking about, and to, kids for being kids and went a little off topic. ;) Sorry about that.

[Stacy in NJ]

We've always had a hard time doing dictation like those in WWE. By "we" I mean ds12, ds11 and ME. If I were your student and required to write that from dictation, I may very well have made and error in order or punctuation. I think the SWB has very high expectations with regards to dictation.

 

My advice? Scale it back until it's doable for your child. Use simplier sentences, or help him along by repeating and breaking down the sentence into more doable chunks.

[Haiku]

She couldn't spell most of the words in that sentence (even after copying them once)

 

When we started dictation, I was very clear with my seven year old that "This is not a spelling test. I will help you spell any word you aren't completely sure how to spell. I don't want you to write a word wrong because then you may remember it wrong." My dd asks me to help her spell most of the words.

 

Tara

[Annie Laurie]

When we started dictation, I was very clear with my seven year old that "This is not a spelling test. I will help you spell any word you aren't completely sure how to spell. I don't want you to write a word wrong because then you may remember it wrong." My dd asks me to help her spell most of the words.

 

Tara

 

Exactly. I just tell my dd how to spell the word when she asks. It even says in the workbook that it's not a spelling lesson or test and to just tell them the spelling when they ask.

[Heather in WI]

We had that sentence this week. I don't consider it excessively difficult, but I'm also quite willing to provide a prompt if necessary half way through the sentence.

 

Child is writing and saying to herself, "I shall give you half an hour to be up, dressed,... ... washed, ... paj--"

 

And I interrupt and say, "'Teeth cleaned' first, then pajamas..."

 

I think the *goal* is to do that less and less. But I don't think it's wrong to need to remind them from time to time along the way. And I don't think it means the sentences are too hard. They *should* be at least a little bit challenging...

 

 

:iagree:

 

It is challenging, but do-able.

[razorbackmama]

Forgive me, I haven't read the rest of the replies....

 

I found that the sentences given in the workbook were WAY harder than what the textbook recommended. OK that came out weird...what I mean is that the textbook gives certain guidelines on choosing your own passages. But then the workbook chose WAY HARDER passages. The ones in level 2 are even harder than the criteria listed in the textbook for level 3 (what we are on now).

 

Level 1 wasn't too bad, so I kept the workbook for it to use with my current 1st grader. But I sold the level 2 workbook and just plan to pick my own selections next year when he starts with it.

[J'etudie]

We did that sentence last week, and I wouldn't hesitate to break it up if I needed to. My goal is to always be stretching him, wherever that point is (and it may not be where WWE suggests he should be on Week X, Day Y).

 

One thing I did to help was I looked at that sentence and wondered how I would try to keep it in my memory. I realized the first three commands were one word each (up, dressed, washed), the next three commands were two words each (teeth cleaned, pajamas folded, windows opened), and then it finished off with three words (beds turned back). I read it in a way to emphasize that, sort of staccato for the first three, a da-dum, da-dum, da-dum fashion for the next three, and some other way for the last one. I think I even pointed out to ds the shift in the command length.

 

I figure a lot of memorization is little tricks, and I used this opportunity to show him one. :D

[Homemama2]

Thanks for the replies! I guess I just needed the hives "permission" to repeat the sentence when he got to the half way point in the dictation. :tongue_smilie: It seems the sentences he struggles on are these ones where there is a "list" separated by commas---he knows where to put the commas, just keeps messing up the order. Anyway, next time we'll break it into smaller chunks or just make up our own shorter sentence. :001_smile:

 

Laurie NE---At first I didn't get what you meant in your post, then I realized what you meant! :lol: As the other poster said, just a quote, not a threat. ;)

 

I wasn't trying to scare anyone off of WWE....I really like this program alot. And the workbook is really handy to just pull off the shelf and use. We were just having alot of problems with this sentence. Looking ahead a few weeks, these sentences look fine. This sentence was to help them learn where to put commas in a series, so thats what probably made it longer.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

My ds is struggling with the dictation in the WWE 2 workbook. This week we are on week # 10 and this was his dictation sentence:

 

"I shall give you half an hour to be up, dressed, washed, teeth cleaned, pajamas folded, windows opened, and beds turned back."

 

My gifted *9* year old balked at this sentence just a few weeks ago. I told him to think of it as exercise for his brain, just like swimming laps exercises his body. I repeated it several times until he could repeat it back to me. When he got stuck in the middle of writing it, I stopped him and we went back and I read the sentence *in its entirety* back to him and had him repeat it *in its entirety*.

 

My seven year old is still in WB1 copying the easier of the two sentence choices. :-) There's no way he could do level two at the moment!

[Oak Knoll Mom]

we'll go through the laborious process of sounding out each part of the word and figuring out which letter makes which sound.

 

I would just tell her how to spell the word. Stopping to sound out a word just prolongs the process and makes it more likely that she'll forget the dictation. Like Susan says: This is not a spelling test. Maybe you could make a note of the words you have to spell for her and add those words to her spelling lists.

 

(I know you didn't ask for advise and I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds, but this just jumped out at me!)

[EKS]

When my son can't remember the dictation, I just repeat the whole thing to him. This really *isn't* something you need to stress over!

[razorbackmama]

My gifted *9* year old balked at this sentence just a few weeks ago. I told him to think of it as exercise for his brain, just like swimming laps exercises his body. I repeated it several times until he could repeat it back to me. When he got stuck in the middle of writing it, I stopped him and we went back and I read the sentence *in its entirety* back to him and had him repeat it *in its entirety*.

 

My seven year old is still in WB1 copying the easier of the two sentence choices. :-) There's no way he could do level two at the moment!

 

My 12yo had a terrible time with this sentence! And my 11yo and 9yo LOL!

[Haiku]

we'll go through the laborious process of sounding out each part of the word and figuring out which letter makes which sound.

 

IMO (and just my opinion), that's not the point of dictation. To me, the point of dictation is practicing holding a sentence in one's mind and writing it down. Laboring over spelling is a distraction and takes the focus from the holding and writing. That's why I just spell words for my dd.

 

I'd like to see SWB weigh in on this thread.

 

Tara

[Nestof3]

I shorten sentences with my boys. We started with WWE this year and are using levels 2 and 3, sp since it's so new, I decided to give them what they can handle.

 

Ben has a hard time spelling words, and he is a very slow writer, so we'll go over some of them before I read the passage, talk about the spelling, and then I'll write any difficult ones down for him.

 

We also discuss a little more than SWB includes in her book for passages. I try to point out words with recent spelling rules they've learned, I have them identify parts of speech we've been discussing, etc.

 

We also discuss any misspellings after the student has written the dictation, and he corrects them.

Edited October 24, 2009 by nestof3

[Nestof3]

IMO (and just my opinion), that's not the point of dictation. To me, the point of dictation is practicing holding a sentence in one's mind and writing it down. Laboring over spelling is a distraction and takes the focus from the holding and writing. That's why I just spell words for my dd.

 

I'd like to see SWB weigh in on this thread.

 

Tara

 

We discuss any difficult spelling before I read the sentence(s). For Nathan, that is enough; he is rather natural when it comes to spelling. Ben seriously struggles with it, so I write some of the words down for him because he is constantly asking me how to spell words.

 

The problem lies in the fact that we are supposed to stop them when they begin making a mistake, but those interruptions flush the sentence out of the brain.

 

So, I help with spelling as I've mentioned, and I shorten the sentences a little. I don't think it is mandatory that they have to be able to hold a specific amount of info in the brain. I think it is important that they are increasing in their ability.

[razorbackmama]

IMO (and just my opinion), that's not the point of dictation. To me, the point of dictation is practicing holding a sentence in one's mind and writing it down. Laboring over spelling is a distraction and takes the focus from the holding and writing. That's why I just spell words for my dd.

 

:iagree:

 

AND...hang onto your hats LOL...I don't even stress about spelling. If they ask how to spell a word I tell them, but I don't point out every error because I know that proofreading is a part of the writing process, and I want them to concentrate more on getting their thoughts down on paper than on getting each and every word spelled correctly the first time those thoughts get written down on paper.

 

I know it's probably a no-no, but that's what we do and why we do it.;)