If you were worried about underlying issues for your child's behavior...

[melissel]

Where would you start looking for answers? We've been struggling with my DD4 since...well, birth, basically. I won't go into a huge amount of detail unnecessarily, but my mommy radar is going off, and I'm starting to worry that there's something I'm not seeing here. Mainly, she seems to have so much impatience and anger all the time, and nothing we've done over the years has helped her learn to control it. My mom pointed out something tonight that I hadn't noticed--DD4 hardly ever cuddles anymore, and when she does, it's just for a minute or two, then she's pushing you off her. She's always about three seconds away from screaming at someone or acting out.

 

If I had to make a guess at something, I'd guess sensory issues--she's always hated loud noises and singing, but I chalked it up to her need to be in control of every situation. She's always gotten overwhelmed in large groups, to the point where she insisted on eating meals alone in her room when we had a big group of family visiting last summer, but frankly, I didn't blame her and wouldn't have minded eating alone at times too! She's started preschool in the last few weeks, and while preschool seems to be going well, her behavior at home has been harder to handle. Again, I chalked it up to the change in her sleep schedule and at having to be "on" while in a relatively new group of people several mornings a week. I was thinking we should let her nap, but she's taken naps a few afternoons in the past week and if anything, her behavior is worse afterward, almost like she's bewildered herself by how out of control she is. Yesterday she was bouncing off the walls after dinner, and randomly, she ran up to hug me hard and bit me on the stomach! I screeched in shock and pain, and she started to cry (of course). I said, "Why would you bite me?!" And she said, "I...I...I just wanted to hug you!" and ran to her room. Afterward, she couldn't tell me what made her bite me. I'm starting to feel like I'm making a lot of excuses and missing what's really going on :(

 

Anyway, where do I go from here? Pediatrician? Behavioral specialist? Elimination diet? If there are sensory issues, who diagnoses them? If there's an actual behavioral problem, who diagnoses that? I won't lie--it scares me a bit to see that she's become a very proficient liar and a pretty accomplished sneak. If it turns out that she's just got this incredibly difficult personality that needs to be in control of every single moment in her life, where do I find help with that? IS THERE help with that?!

 

I would love some advice. I've posted about her here a few times before, and maybe she's really just a "spirited" child, but living with her is pretty difficult these days, and it seems that BEING her is not so easy either. I'd really like to find a way to help all of us.

 

TIA!

[Chris in VA]

I'm sorry you and she are in such distress. I think you are wise to tackle it head-on. I would start with your pediatrician and go from there. Because sensory issues are so prevalent now, there is lots of help, and it is very successful, esp if kids come in early and don't have to unlearn a lot of patterns and behaviors that they've used to cope. Congrats for being a good mom!:001_smile::grouphug:

[lulubelle]

My son has some similar issues. I would talk to the Pediatrician first and see what they have to offer. For me it wasn't much from ours, just a recommendation to a Developmental Psych. - which there aren't many around here. We decided to just see a Psychologist for advice. He too was not that helpful, but suggested a Neuropsychological test. The majority of which are not on our health insurance. Since the schools have taken over this duty, the insurance companies tend not to cover them. So, we are waiting for a chunk of money to come along so we can fork over about 3k to have it done! Another issue is the age of your child. She is a bit young for testing and some do not recommend testing till 7 yo. Your best bet would probably be to get a consult with an Occupational Therapist and take it from there. This too can be costly since insurance only covers a certain number of visits and sensory issues need alot of consistent work. I would also highly recommend Out of Sync Child and it's companion book with recommendations that you can do at home.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Melissa,

 

A couple places to look:

 

Neuropsychologist

Educational-Psych

Developmental Pediatrician

Diagnostician

 

The thing about these is that you will get a more thorough across-the-board eval as well as suggestions. Also, rarely would the first plan of attack be to just throw her on medication though some sort of medication may be part of the suggestion depending on the results.

 

Other things you can do:

 

You might look to see if you have a location that tests and treats sensory integration. We have a place pretty close by. Occupational Therapists are the ones that work with that issue.

 

You might TRY an elimination diet. A full one would be best, but you might start with ANY flavoring or coloring, milk, and corn. Doris Rapp's book can help you with the top 11 (I think it is).

 

You may work extra hard on structure and discipline (teaching/guiding). Raising a Thinking Child, Positive Discipline for Preschoolers (or Positive Discipline A-Z) would be good places to start on the discipline side. My experience has been that the toughest kids often live in pretty laid back homes where they really would benefit that there is a routine around daily things, more structure built in, a stronger schedule, what seems like A LOT of supervision, etc.

 

Progress charts can REALLY help some of these kids. For example, Gregory will still struggle with behavior, but if he has a visual to catch his eye, regular reminders of how he can progress, etc, he will try a LOT harder. Now this works if you have a specific behavior you want to change.

 

Another thing that helps is coaching and spelling things out. Before going into GameStop last week, I stopped Gregory: "Tyler is here to get a game. Kimberly may buy something also. But *I* am not your mom and *you* have no money, so today, you can look but not get anything." Last Saturday, we had to spell out the situation and his role in it (he was one of FOUR people in the car and so we will work out TOGETHER when we were done garage sale-ing, but that MOM had final say as she was on the one driving). We tried to share with him the BENEFITS of not having to be in control. Maybe he'll believe us one day :)

 

Okay, hope some of this helps.

[jplain]

I'd probably start with food. Eliminating all processed foods would be a good first step, because that'll get rid of the dyes, preservatives, and artificial flavorings. Dairy, soy, and gluten (wheat, barley, rye, plus oats which don't contain gluten but are cross-contaminated) are the top three usual suspects when it comes to specific foods. A couple weeks of eliminating all three followed by reintroduction (one at a time) would probably give you a pretty good idea of whether any of them are a problem. The difficulty is getting through those weeks, but it may be more than worth it.

 

Good luck!

[haysmommy]

My daughter has sensory processing disorder and we started with the pediatrician. She was still under 3 when first diagnosed so we had early intervention speech and occupational therapists in our home. After 3 she saw a private OT and a developmental pediatrician. Now at almost 8, most of the "quirks" she has outgrown, except the food aversions and that she is easily distractable.

[gingersmom]

I would take her for an OT evaluation.

 

I would not rely on your pediatrician. Many are still clueless.

 

This is not a problem she is going to outgrow.

[shadowcat]

Psychologists work with and assess kids under 7 all the time. I'd start by establishing a baseline. Spend a few days recording every outburst, every piece of behavior you are concerned about, and what was happening directly beforehand. It'll be annoying and tedious, but you may find a pattern of triggers or warning signs. I'd suggest you also track how long she slept and what she ate, since those are two theories you have about what may be triggering her behavior.

 

Once you have some facts, deciding what to do will be easier. Plus if you go to a psychologist that information will be very helpful.

[lgm]

Similar child here. It's sensory overload. The bouncing around is the body trying to discharge. We find swimming is helpful if the kiddo gets to this state.

 

Start with the preschool. Find out:

 

a) what the snack is

 

eliminate everything that is processed and make sure the alternate snack is a healthy one if you can't supply your own. Absolutely no colored sugar water - the dye in that bothers many child.

 

b) what the day is like from a sensory point of view

 

when you ask this, if they look at you like you have three heads, then imho you need to find a different preschool...they aren't going to be able to help.

 

also, they may not be willing to admit it if there are any children who are pushing/shoving/harrassing others frequently. We found out about that when the kid was complaining about another who wouldn't leave him along & then came home with bruises.

 

c) if there is a quiet spot for overwhelmed children to retreat to before they get out of control. Out of control is very very scary to the little one and they do not want to lose it. They will take the initiative to go to a spot where they can get away from the stimuli and self-calm.

 

d) pop in and visit

 

if anyone is yelling at a child, it's a big red flag

if girls are shrieking in other kids' ears, it's a big red flag

if the place is disorganized and there are never any quiet activities, it's a big red flag

 

 

I had to remove my fella from preschool. The year prior was successful. The failure year was due to a teacher change...very uneducated women who were trying to control children by shouting at them and breaking their spirit. They also bowed down to new parent pressure to eliminate real food as snacks and serve processed sweets. My drop-in visit showed the place looked like an overloaded McD's playground rather than a preschool with serious playing going on.

 

The rule of thumb on noise is:

if it is too loud to hear the person next to you talk in a normal indoor voice, it is too loud. After thirty minutes, irreversible hearing damage commences.

 

Fast forward: kiddo's coping mechanisms are good. Can cope with short term loud noises such as girls w/ear piercing screams next to him in a crowd. Was able to enjoy a birthday party at 6 with friends; at 8 with strangers. A surprising number of children are empathatic and will shut the screamers up once they see him cover his ears or dive under a table.

 

Your child is doing well - knowing that she needs peace and retreating to her room to eat in peace is excellent.

Edited September 24, 2009 by lgm

[dirty ethel rackham]

You are describing my middle son. This is almost exactly how he was at that age. The pediatrician and family doctor were pretty much clue-less. They just kept telling me that he needed more discipline. I knew in my heart of hearts that this was not the case - he wasn't responding to normal discipline. There were days that I used to hope someone who could do a better job would take him. A horrible thing to feel about your own child. He did make a turnaround after his 4th birthday, but was still a major problem. The local school did an evaluation for us. All they would offer was speech and language therapy because he did so poorly in expressive language and appropriateness, much of which could be explained by his inability to test in the unfamiliar environment. They refused to even look at OT. We finally happened upon NACD and they have been a god-send for us. My son is a completely different person. He is a JOY to be around. He is a very pleasant 13 year old (and how many people can say that about a teen:).) It was expensive, but not nearly as expensive as a bunch of private therapists would have been. Feel free to PM me about our experience.

[Ottakee]

You might want to cross post with the special needs board.

 

I agree with writing EVERYTHING down. Include all concerning behavior, sleep habits, what she had to eat and drink, etc. Even a few days or a week of this will give you a lot of information.

 

Diet might be a issue. It wasn't here but it is worth a try.

 

I would then suggest a full physical with blood work to look for anything that might be off (thyroid, blood sugars, anemia, etc.). Then see about a developmental pediatrician, or neuropsychologist. Likely a occupational therapist for sensory things would help as well. We also ended up with a psychiatrist and she was the big part of the answer for us. The other was the neurologist as seizures were also playing a role in her behavior.

 

Is there any family history of LDs, ADD/ADHD, mental health issues, etc? Some things are genetic based and might give you some clues.

 

Ends up my daughter (who in one word would have been described as irritable) has bipolar, seizures and a mitochondrial disorder. Now at 14 she is dong MUCH MUCH better on proper meds and with some therapy.

[Elizabeth Conley]

if it is too loud to hear the person next to you talk in a normal indoor voice, it is too loud. After thirty minutes, irreversible hearing damage commences.

 

One of my major objections to public school was the noise level. It was so germane to the environment that anyone sensitive to the racket was considered dysfunctional.

 

I found it intolerable, and was exhausted and irritable after eating lunch with the kids at school. My kids found the infernal shrieking, yelling and slamming of objects numbing. They just withdrew into themselves. A lot of their school hours were spent just trying to cope with the noise.

 

Even factory and construction workers wear hearing protection when the noise is persistently damaging. Why don't modern educational institutions understand that all that gratuitous racket is unhealthy?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Does she need to be in pre-school? I would bring her home and work with her in the quieter confines of your home.

[ack25]

If you continue to be considered, you can ask for a behavior consultation with your ped. and see what is recommended. Then you can decide to follow the recommendations or seek out other opinions. Someone mentioned The Out of Sync Child. I read this when dd was in preschool. DD didn't exactly fit the definition in the book, but many of the suggestions were still useful. I also find Training the Spirited Child helpful (despite the title.)

[Impish]

I'd start with the Ped, simply because the one I had/have for my kids is awesome. I use my GP more for the ability to get in quicker, and near to home issues.

 

Depending on your insurance, it might require a referral as well.

 

I also wonder about heavy metals...can't they cause some sensory issues, etc? That's something (I believe) that your ped could test for, while waiting for further referrals.

[EKS]

Try to find an occupational therapist who specializes in sensory processing problems and get an evaluation.

[KidsHappen]

You might want to cross post with the special needs board.

 

I agree with writing EVERYTHING down. Include all concerning behavior, sleep habits, what she had to eat and drink, etc. Even a few days or a week of this will give you a lot of information.

 

Diet might be a issue. It wasn't here but it is worth a try.

 

I would then suggest a full physical with blood work to look for anything that might be off (thyroid, blood sugars, anemia, etc.). Then see about a developmental pediatrician, or neuropsychologist. Likely a occupational therapist for sensory things would help as well. We also ended up with a psychiatrist and she was the big part of the answer for us. The other was the neurologist as seizures were also playing a role in her behavior.

 

Is there any family history of LDs, ADD/ADHD, mental health issues, etc? Some things are genetic based and might give you some clues.

 

Ends up my daughter (who in one word would have been described as irritable) has bipolar, seizures and a mitochondrial disorder. Now at 14 she is dong MUCH MUCH better on proper meds and with some therapy.

 

I'll just ditto everything she said here. Jouraling is so very important until you get some answers because it can help point doctors in the right direction. I am so sorry you are going through this. It is hard work and so very trying for everyone involved. I hope you start finding answers soon.

[DawnL]

yes, that totally sounds like Sensory Processing Disorder (SPD) to me. My oldest ds has it, and yes, he can be quite a handful. He is the reason I am hoomeschooling in the first place. He can also be a "sneak".

 

I would start with an Occupational Therapy evaluation. I spent years, trying to get our pediatrician to listen to me. It wasn't until h is 5 year old Dr visit that she finally agreed and gave us an OT referral.

 

Check out this website

http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/sensory-processing-disorder-checklist.html

 

Also, check out the book The Out Of Sync Child. That is a wonderful book that is very informative and helpful.

 

My ds, with his SPD, is a "seeker". It sounds like your dd is partially a seeker, but also has a lot of sensory defensiveness in there, too. The SPD makes our kiddos seem very quirky and odd, and like they are "bad". After DS's preschool experience, where we pulled him out early, his self-esteem was terrible. He often said he was "bad" or "stupid". I am so glad he's home with me now.

[Mom0012]

I'd probably start with food. Eliminating all processed foods would be a good first step, because that'll get rid of the dyes, preservatives, and artificial flavorings. Dairy, soy, and gluten (wheat, barley, rye, plus oats which don't contain gluten but are cross-contaminated) are the top three usual suspects when it comes to specific foods. A couple weeks of eliminating all three followed by reintroduction (one at a time) would probably give you a pretty good idea of whether any of them are a problem. The difficulty is getting through those weeks, but it may be more than worth it.

 

Good luck!

 

:iagree: This is where I would start as well. Making changes like this completely and dramatically changed my son's life and my own for the better in a big way. These types of changes won't help every child, but when they do help, the difference can be night and day.

 

Lisa

[sleepymommy]

I'd start first with diet. Specifically eliminate gluten, dairy, soy and egg. See if you notice any changes. Meanwhile, make an appt with a developmental Ped.

 

Make sure they order a full blood workup, if possible and if funds allow, look into nonconventional companies that do additional testing. Doctors Data, Genova and Enterolabs comes to mind.

 

We still don't have an official diagnosis of anything for the many issues we have with Ds1, but we do know that certain foods cause a large majority of his problems.

 

Good luck to you.

 

:grouphug: