Healthcare plan & implantable microchips...rumor or substantive?

[Pretty in Pink]

I hope it's okay to post this link:

 

http://current.com/items/90842279_coverage-under-obamacare-will-require-an-implantable-microchip.htm

 

Any truth to this information? Where can I find the text of the healthcare plan? I googled it but I'm in a hurry this morning so I'm probably overlooking something.

[Julie in Austin]

When you come across something like this, you can go to opencongress.org (or any other website that has a full text of the bill) and you can do a keyword search and see what you find.

[calandalsmom]

really? You need a source for this?

 

If its too weird to be true, then it likely is NOT TRUE.

[cillakat]

ROTFLMAO. No, it's not true.

[Mom-ninja.]

On NPR they were saying how when Roosevelt wanted to get Social Security set up and going there were also lots of false rumors. One rumor was that the American people would be issued a dog tag at birth, and would have to wear it all his life.

[Snickerdoodle]

One rumor was that the American people would be issued a dog tag at birth, and would have to wear it all his life.

 

You mean the social security number?

[Corraleno]

http://current.com/items/90842279_coverage-under-obamacare-will-require-an-implantable-microchip.htm

 

:lol:

I'm picturing a bunch of insurance and hospital lobbyists sitting around a bar somewhere making this stuff up...

Jim: "Implantable chips??? Ha ha, Joe, you crack me up. No one's going to buy that!"

Joe: "No really, we'll seed it into a few blogs and it'll be all over the country. Trust me!!!"

[Jean too]

:smilielol5:

[specialmama]

Actually, it's not that funny. My dh sits on a few of the high-up boards and panels regarding heathcare in Canada. This idea is not a new one, and implementing it would end health care fraud which costs the government WAY more than this microchip system would. However, it is still in the works (has been for 5-7 years) and as far as he has heard, there is no release date as of yet, and no confirmation that it WILL happen... but the idea has been well received higher up, behind closed doors. They do it to pets and have for years, so it is quite likely that it will be so for humans. There's a lot of hype over these microchips, and rightly so.

[Corraleno]

Actually, it's not that funny. My dh sits on a few of the high-up boards and panels regarding heathcare in Canada. This idea is not a new one, and implementing it would end health care fraud which costs the government WAY more than this microchip system would. However, it is still in the works (has been for 5-7 years) and as far as he has heard, there is no release date as of yet, and no confirmation that it WILL happen... but the idea has been well received higher up, behind closed doors. They do it to pets and have for years, so it is quite likely that it will be so for humans. There's a lot of hype over these microchips, and rightly so.

 

Would Canadians accept that??? Americans most definitely would not. Any politician who voted for mandatory human microchipping in the US would be committing political suicide. And I think that would cover pretty much the full political spectrum, from liberal to conservative to libertarian.

 

Not. gonna. happen.

 

Jackie

Edited September 5, 2009 by Corraleno

[KidsHappen]

Actually, I have already seen news coverage that they have begun this in volunteers. We are alreasy doing it with our pets and about six months (I think, may have been longer now), ago the first Americans voluntarily had their infant implanted at birth. These small capsule are RFID chips, basically bar codes. First, they were sellling it as a way for parents to keep track of their children or find them should they ever be kidnapped or go missing. Now they are tying it to health care to insure more people get it done. The plans are to bypass the National ID card everyone was so opposed to and just go straight to this. Most of the info out there on this is coming from the fringe but the info about the first volunteer, I saw that on a national news show.

[Corraleno]

People do all kinds of goofy stuff voluntarily, but I don't believe there is any way the government would ever convince the American public that mandatory microchipping is a good idea.

 

Jackie

[sweetbasil]

There's PLENTY that's disturbing in this bill but I haven't run across that particular clause in my reading.

 

However, with RFID chips being put into driver's licenses, and identity fraud exploding, I'm sure we're not far off from this as a reality.

 

Now what IS in the bill is the Government being given access to your electronic bank accounts and a mandatory health ID card.

 

Put a RFID chip in the mandatory ID card and anyone can be tracked from 5 ft away with any RFID reader (like those on the toll roads).

[Hockey Mom]

Would Canadians accept that??? Americans most definitely would not. Any politician who voted for mandatory human microchipping in the US would be committing political suicide. And I think that would cover pretty much the full political spectrum, from liberal to conservative to libertarian.

 

Not. gonna. happen.

 

Jackie

 

:iagree:

 

Not just political suicide, but I think it may push Americans over the edge and it would incite a true revolution...blood and all.

[kalanamak]

People do all kinds of goofy stuff voluntarily,

 

From the other end of this, I say it is not always "goofy". When faced with a mentally challenged individual with a scar on his neck he says is from a machete (and it looks it), I spent well over 10 hours tracking down the fact he'd had thyroid cancer. Most docs wouldn't bother. If I were the guardian (turns out he had one of those, too), I'd chip this man the moment it was legal. How else with the next doc know, e.g., that when this man goes off his thryoid meds he gets life-threateningly slow heart rates and goes into congestive heart failure? People this challenged elope or wander at times.

 

(I could talk all day about horror stories and hundreds of thousands of dollars wasted caring for people who can't say much more other than "I take a pink pill and a white pill.")

[Tree House Academy]

It is done to animals...what makes you think no one would ever try to have it done to humans? If logging on to the "cash for clunkers" website could give the government complete control of any file on your computer, then an implantable microchip may very well be something that happens in the future. I am not saying it will happen NOW, this year, this decade even...but there is no guarantee it never will either.

Edited September 5, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[Tree House Academy]

Actually, I have already seen news coverage that they have begun this in volunteers. We are alreasy doing it with our pets and about six months (I think, may have been longer now), ago the first Americans voluntarily had their infant implanted at birth. These small capsule are RFID chips, basically bar codes. First, they were sellling it as a way for parents to keep track of their children or find them should they ever be kidnapped or go missing. Now they are tying it to health care to insure more people get it done. The plans are to bypass the National ID card everyone was so opposed to and just go straight to this. Most of the info out there on this is coming from the fringe but the info about the first volunteer, I saw that on a national news show.

 

 

George Orwell wasn't too far off...just got the wrong year. :( Big brother is watching...

[FO4UR]

If logging on to the "cash for clunkers" website could give the government complete control of any file on your computer

 

 

What??? links?

[Perry]

What??? links?

Maybe this?

[forty-two]

Looks like a hoax to me, albeit a good one. He never lied, not once - just had an interestingly juxtaposed set of accurate quotes, and then some speculation on the conclusion he wanted people to draw - *without* ever explicitly stating that conclusion himself.

 

I looked up the text of the bill (http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf and search the text for "class II" - it's on pg 1001, and the other quote is, as stated, on pg 1004), and the context is that the gov wants to establish a registry to collect safety and effective data on medical devices, including class II devices that are implantable, live-saving or life-sustaining. The data is then defined to include all the stuff in his second quote. I believe him that rfid chips are classified as class II implantable devices, but this provision is talking about *all* class II implantable devices, as well as class II life-saving devices, class II life-sustaining devices, and class III devices, as well. And they just want info about how well these devices work in patients over time. So, no mandatory rfid chips.

[Peek a Boo]

Actually, I have already seen news coverage that they have begun this in volunteers. We are alreasy doing it with our pets and about six months (I think, may have been longer now), ago the first Americans voluntarily had their infant implanted at birth. These small capsule are RFID chips, basically bar codes. First, they were sellling it as a way for parents to keep track of their children or find them should they ever be kidnapped or go missing. Now they are tying it to health care to insure more people get it done. The plans are to bypass the National ID card everyone was so opposed to and just go straight to this. Most of the info out there on this is coming from the fringe but the info about the first volunteer, I saw that on a national news show.

 

yup. it won't start off as mandatory, but will seem "so logical" that eventually the fringe few that aren't voluntarily getting it will eventually be penalized, then bullied into getting on the bandwagon.

 

 

On NPR they were saying how when Roosevelt wanted to get Social Security set up and going there were also lots of false rumors.

yeah... like that false rumor that the SS number will NEVER be used for identification purposes.

most of the false rumors come directly from the horse's mouth.

 

some never learn.

[Tree House Academy]

What??? links?

 

I got an e-mail that had a link to a news story in it . Apparently there is a screen that comes up that lets you know that your computer is now the property of the US government and that all files and such can be confiscated if necessary. Pretty freaky stuff!

[LizzyBee]

I got an e-mail that had a link to a news story in it . Apparently there is a screen that comes up that lets you know that your computer is now the property of the US government and that all files and such can be confiscated if necessary. Pretty freaky stuff!

 

It applied to dealers, not consumers (not that that makes it okay!). Dealers had to agree to the statement in order to submit the cash for clunkers transactions. I think after the publicity about it, the statement was modified.

[Perry]

yeah... like that false rumor that the SS number will NEVER be used for identification purposes.

 

Who said that?

[Peek a Boo]

Who said that?

 

um, The Gvt:

 

via wiki.

 

The government originally stated that the SSN would not be a means of identification, but currently a multitude of U.S. entities use the Social Security number as a personal identifier. These include government agencies such as the Internal Revenue Service, as well as private agencies such as banks, colleges and universities, health insurance companies, and employers.

Social Security Cards up until the 1980s expressly stated the number and card were not to be used for identification purposes. Since nearly everyone in the United States now has a number, it became convenient to use it anyway and the message was removed.[9]

[Catherine]

"I take a pink pill and a white pill.")--LOLOL!!!

[joannqn]

The quoted sections are discussing things like pace makers and the ability to track device safety and effectiveness.

 

DH looked it up in the health care bill for me. We don't support the bill but neither do we think people should be making stuff like this up...it makes the rest of us who are against the bill for legitimate reasons look bad.

[Perry]

um, The Gvt:

 

via wiki.

 

The government originally stated that the SSN would not be a means of identification, but currently a multitude of U.S. entities use the Social Security number as a personal identifier. These include government agencies such as the Internal Revenue Service, as well as private agencies such as banks, colleges and universities, health insurance companies, and employers.

Social Security Cards up until the 1980s expressly stated the number and card were not to be used for identification purposes. Since nearly everyone in the United States now has a number, it became convenient to use it anyway and the message was removed.[9]

But didn't they just mean that the individual couldn't use it to prove their identity?

[Audrey]

Would Canadians accept that??? Americans most definitely would not. Any politician who voted for mandatory human microchipping in the US would be committing political suicide. And I think that would cover pretty much the full political spectrum, from liberal to conservative to libertarian.

 

Not. gonna. happen.

 

Jackie

 

 

Oh, I'm sure it will go over so very well in all the huge Mennonite and Hutterite communities.

 

NOT! :lol:

[Mom-ninja.]

About the dog tags. I know that the SS number is used as part of identification, but we don't actually *wear* dog tags. That's all the NPR was saying. SO we may have health care cards issued to people (like SS cards) but we won't have imbedded chips just like we don't wear our SS numbers.

[Peek a Boo]

But didn't they just mean that the individual couldn't use it to prove their identity?

 

Not according to assurances made by the gvt Back Then.

sounds like a blatantly biased reporting job to me.

so much for straight dope.

 

http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs10-ssn.htm#9

History of SSN usage. When Social Security numbers were first issued in 1936, the federal government assured the public that use of the numbers would be limited to Social Security programs such as calculating retirement benefits. Today, however, the Social Security number (SSN) has become the de facto national identifier. (Read a history of the SSN at http://www.socialsecurity.gov/history/ssn/ssncards.html .)

 

 

and from the horse's lying mouth:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/history/ssn/ssnchron.html

 

 

1943

 

Executive Order 9397 (3 CFR (1943-1948 Comp.) 283-284) required:

 

* All Federal components to use the SSN "exclusively" whenever the component found it advisable to set up a new identification system for individuals.

* The Social Security Board to cooperate with Federal uses of the number by issuing and verifying numbers for other Federal agencies

Edited September 5, 2009 by Peek a Boo

[Peek a Boo]

On NPR they were saying how when Roosevelt wanted to get Social Security set up and going there were also lots of false rumors. One rumor was that the American people would be issued a dog tag at birth, and would have to wear it all his life.

 

not quite false: ;)

 

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/history/ssn/dogtag.html

 

The Infamous Dog-Tag

 

The publisher William Randolph Hearst was a fervent enemy of President Roosevelt and the New Deal. All the newspapers in the Hearst chain were expected to regularly publish unfavorable stories about New Deal programs. On the eve of the 1936 presidential election Hearst sought to undermine support for Social Security with allegations that workers would be required to wear "dog-tags" with their Social Security number and would be forced to fill-out questionnaires probing for personal information. In fact, neither allegation was true. However, the "dog-tag" story did have a basis in fact.

 

When considering ways to assign Social Security numbers, one proposal was to issue metal nameplates, not unlike military "dog-tags." Commissioner Altmeyer vetoed this idea as soon as he heard about it. This did not, however, stop the Hearst syndicate from reporting it as fact. During the early discussion of the metal nameplate idea, one company eager for this potential government business (the Addressograph Corp.) went so far as to prepare a sample I.D. tag in Commissioner Altmeyer's name. Altmeyer kept this sample "dog-tag" in his desk drawer throughout his career with SSA, and he donated it to SSA after his retirement. So the one and only Social Security "dog-tag" ever issued is now on display in the History Room at SSA headquarters in Baltimore.

[Perry]

 

http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs10-ssn.htm#9

History of SSN usage. When Social Security numbers were first issued in 1936, the federal government assured the public that use of the numbers would be limited to Social Security programs such as calculating retirement benefits. Today, however, the Social Security number (SSN) has become the de facto national identifier.

 

I just don't see where the government actually said that. Maybe they did, but this isn't it. That's what I'm looking for.

[mommaduck]

I just don't see where the government actually said that. Maybe they did, but this isn't it. That's what I'm looking for.

She could dig the people up, bring them back to life, present them to you, and have them tell you themselves and it still "wouldn't be what you are looking for".

[Perry]

She could dig the people up, bring them back to life, present them to you, and have them tell you themselves and it still "wouldn't be what you are looking for".

How about a speech? Or a newspaper article? Or a quote attributed to Roosevelt?

[Peek a Boo]

She could dig the people up, bring them back to life, present them to you, and have them tell you themselves and it still "wouldn't be what you are looking for".

 

or "straightdope" could present it and it'd be gospel. ;)

 

but yeah, i'll peck around and see if i can find something. Bet I can find it before anyone else can. :D

[mommaduck]

or "straightdope" could present it and it'd be gospel. ;)

 

:glare: yeah, funny how it's a two way street like that.

[Perry]

:glare: yeah, funny how it's a two way street like that.

Well, I can't prove a negative.

[Perry]

Well, I can't prove a negative.

Also, I'm not trying to be argumentative. It may very well be true, and it wouldn't really surprise me if it were. But I searched and couldn't find it, and that sort of surprises me. If there were quotes or speeches, I'd expect them to be easy to find.

[mommaduck]

Not being able to find something online doesn't prove a negative. The Internet is not the be all, end all of things.

[Perry]

Not being able to find something online doesn't prove a negative. The Internet is not the be all, end all of things.

You lost me.

 

I can't prove someone didn't say something. No one can.

[cillakat]

Would Canadians accept that??? Americans most definitely would not. Any politician who voted for mandatory human microchipping in the US would be committing political suicide. And I think that would cover pretty much the full political spectrum, from liberal to conservative to libertarian.

 

Not. gonna. happen.

 

Jackie

 

ITA. I don't care if it's well received behind closed doors.

 

Not gonna happen irl.

K

[Peek a Boo]

You lost me.

 

I can't prove someone didn't say something. No one can.

 

http://www.ssa.gov/legislation/testimony_071102.html

Initially, the only purpose of the SSN was to keep an accurate record of earnings covered under Social Security and to pay benefits based on those earnings. The SSN card is the document SSA provides to show what SSN is assigned to a particular individual. The SSN card, when shown to an employer, assists the employer in properly reporting earnings. Early public education materials counseled workers to share their SSNs only with their employers.

 

Growth of SSN as an Identifier for Other Federal Purposes

 

In spite of the narrowly drawn purpose of the SSN, use of the SSN as a convenient means of identifying people in records systems has grown over the years in steps. In 1943, Executive Order 9397 required Federal agencies to use the SSN in any new system for identifying individuals. This use proved to be a precursor to a continuing explosion in SSN usage which came about during the computer revolution of the 1960's and 70's. The simplicity of using a unique number that most people already possessed encouraged widespread use of the SSN by Government agencies and private organizations as they adapted their record-keeping and business applications to automated data processing.

 

 

 

but hey --what does he know?

[mommaduck]

You lost me.

 

I can't prove someone didn't say something. No one can.

 

Apologies, I thought you said, "I can prove a negative". I just reread and it says "can't".

[CLHCO]

People do all kinds of goofy stuff voluntarily, but I don't believe there is any way the government would ever convince the American public that mandatory microchipping is a good idea.

 

Jackie

 

I admit I don't believe this anymore. At the immediate moment - absolutely not, but I think if given enough time, correct media spin and indoctrinating youth to the idea through the schools, the American people could eventually, after a few tantrums, adopt this. It is, after all, logical in some ways. (Not saying it isn't repulsive, just saying it's logical in terms of managing society.)

 

Honestly, we are led all the time and follow like sheep after the initial shock wears off of new social management. Mandated public schooling was initially pushed through against heavy opposition. Now the bulk of the population thinks it's the only thing one can do with a child at those ages. It's just what you DO. Even the department of education was very heavily fought against, mainly by republicans. Now we have republican presidents pulling out garbage like "No Child Left Behind".

 

Call me a pessimist, but if the population gets their bread and circuses, they don't care if they have to have a microchip after awhile to maintain it.

[Perry]

http://www.ssa.gov/legislation/testimony_071102.html

Initially, the only purpose of the SSN was to keep an accurate record of earnings covered under Social Security and to pay benefits based on those earnings. The SSN card is the document SSA provides to show what SSN is assigned to a particular individual. The SSN card, when shown to an employer, assists the employer in properly reporting earnings. Early public education materials counseled workers to share their SSNs only with their employers.

 

Growth of SSN as an Identifier for Other Federal Purposes

 

In spite of the narrowly drawn purpose of the SSN, use of the SSN as a convenient means of identifying people in records systems has grown over the years in steps. In 1943, Executive Order 9397 required Federal agencies to use the SSN in any new system for identifying individuals. This use proved to be a precursor to a continuing explosion in SSN usage which came about during the computer revolution of the 1960's and 70's. The simplicity of using a unique number that most people already possessed encouraged widespread use of the SSN by Government agencies and private organizations as they adapted their record-keeping and business applications to automated data processing.

 

 

 

but hey --what does he know?

 

I understand what its initial purpose was. I still don't see the part where it assures people that's all it was ever to be used for. Lots of things start out one way and turn into something else. That is *different* than promising it will never be used for another purpose.

[Whereneverever]

I admit I don't believe this anymore. At the immediate moment - absolutely not, but I think if given enough time, correct media spin and indoctrinating youth to the idea through the schools, the American people could eventually, after a few tantrums, adopt this. It is, after all, logical in some ways. (Not saying it isn't repulsive, just saying it's logical in terms of managing society.)

 

Honestly, we are led all the time and follow like sheep after the initial shock wears off of new social management. Mandated public schooling was initially pushed through against heavy opposition. Now the bulk of the population thinks it's the only thing one can do with a child at those ages. It's just what you DO. Even the department of education was very heavily fought against, mainly by republicans. Now we have republican presidents pulling out garbage like "No Child Left Behind".

 

Call me a pessimist, but if the population gets their bread and circuses, they don't care if they have to have a microchip after awhile to maintain it.

:iagree:

[Jean too]

I admit I don't believe this anymore. At the immediate moment - absolutely not, but I think if given enough time, correct media spin and indoctrinating youth to the idea through the schools, the American people could eventually, after a few tantrums, adopt this. It is, after all, logical in some ways. (Not saying it isn't repulsive, just saying it's logical in terms of managing society.)

 

Honestly, we are led all the time and follow like sheep after the initial shock wears off of new social management. Mandated public schooling was initially pushed through against heavy opposition. Now the bulk of the population thinks it's the only thing one can do with a child at those ages. It's just what you DO. Even the department of education was very heavily fought against, mainly by republicans. Now we have republican presidents pulling out garbage like "No Child Left Behind".

 

Call me a pessimist, but if the population gets their bread and circuses, they don't care if they have to have a microchip after awhile to maintain it.

 

So true.

[Peek a Boo]

I understand what its initial purpose was. I still don't see the part where it assures people that's all it was ever to be used for. Lots of things start out one way and turn into something else. That is *different* than promising it will never be used for another purpose.

 

well, I have found dozens of different articles recounting "assurances by the gvt" to vigilantly protect and restrict the SS numbers in the wake of the Hearst attacks, but I have yet to find a primary source document to verify it, and i simply don't have the time to read through allll the speeches and articles on the SSA history archives looking for various phrasings of an assurance.

so I emailed the historian at the SSA archives.

probably won't hear from them till Tuesday at the earliest, a few weeks would be more likely. we'll see. ;)

 

However, I found NOTHING that even hints at the validity of the straightdope article, so I am more skeptical about its accuracy than I am about assurances by the gvt as repeated in various other sources. ;)

[Corraleno]

Call me a pessimist, but if the population gets their bread and circuses, they don't care if they have to have a microchip after awhile to maintain it.

 

I think there are some things Americans will just never agree to, no matter how it's "spun." One is giving up their guns, and another is mandatory microchipping. And considering that politicians usually have a lot more to hide than the rest of us, I'm even more confident they would never vote for it!