Animal shelter===won't let us adopt an outdoor dog

[hornblower]

I don't know. Honestly, the care some animals receive - I think it would be kinder to put them to sleep than to adopt them to those homes.

If there's no other homes, no other options, I don't know if we're really doing them a kindness by letting them live like this.

 

Dogs used as bait in dog fights?

Dogs with huge sores, matts, overgrown nails?

Dogs who are so psychologically messed up that they're scared of everything?

Dogs who never see anything except their yard?

 

Same as when people are dumping a very senior animal who is going to have a hugely hard time transitioning to a new home. The animal might just end up dying slowly of grief. It would have been kinder if the original owners had taken the animal to the vet & been there at the last minute & told it that it was loved.

 

 

It is so clear when you're on the other side & you're saying 'oh but clearly WE'RE not people like that! We wouldn't do that!' But I see it from the other side and A) I don't know that without doing a bunch of research on people - which gets people irritated & B) I still think dogs in yards tend to not get the same care. For one thing if a dog is living with you indoors, it tends to get groomed more regularly & you notice if it has sores etc.

 

Of course I'm biased. I admit it. I'm sure there are dogs in yards who are well taken care of. And I know the issue is not without controversy - we had one municipality ban dogs left in yards unattended with no supervision. Soon the humane societies started getting reports of dogs being tethered in garages or crated in basements for days. Oooooops. Yanno, given the choice between being locked in a basement or being locked in a yard, I think the dog would rather have the yard. ....

 

It IS different working with rescue because all our animals are safe. They're not getting pts if we turn down a home. They're safe in a foster home, getting all the appropriate care & training until the right home comes along. Of course in the big picture, if this ends up taking several months instead of weeks, it does mean we help fewer dogs so it's not ideal.

 

Our local shelters here are also no kill. Though I'm not sure being kennelled for months is a benefit to the dog either.

 

I'm not without ambivalence on a whole bunch of these issues. All rescues have different criteria. Some won't adopt out to people who work full time. Some will adopt only to people who have fully fenced yards & will deny apartment dwellers. One organization requires that adopters do not take their dogs out on bike attachments (like this http://www.springerusa.com/) Now, I love my springer so I don't agree with that.....

 

 

 

I get it - I really do. And rescue & shelter people get it. Everybody has had this conversation a lot of times. All we can do is keep dialoguing & keep trying to find solutions. Bottom line is about 5 million pets get pts each year because people suck. They breed, don't take responsibility & dump. It's part of the perception of animals as being disposable, only fun if it's convenient, not worthy of a lot of time or attention.....& not worthy of being part of our lives.

 

I do have a deep relationship with my dogs & I do advocate for pretty rigorous standards of care. My idea of what constitutes a good life for a dog has actually less to do with where they sleep but a whole lot more to do with how much time you spend with the dog & what kind of things do you do together. There are people who do a lot crating for instance whom I would not adopt to......

 

I'm not b&w on this. All along I'm just trying to explain that people on the other side are doing their best. If someone doesn't like it, join us. Get involved. Foster. Run for the board. Fundraise. Tell us how we can do things better. See what's working. Learn about what's not working. Start your own rescue. There are tons of animals needing help.

 

Are there hoarders? Yup. Are there totally insane people in rescue? Yup - I think I've met some pretty totally nuts people in rescue, probably more than in any other realm. But there are also people who will get up in the middle of the night to meet someone who needs to 'get rid' of their pet for really no good reason at all. People who sink thousands & thousands of their own dollars into vet care, transport, and behavioural rehab to help an animal out.

 

I don't foster for jollies. It's bleeding awful to let animals go. My dd isn't knitting her fingers to the bone for a fundraiser just to support some insane organization which will turn adopters down & make people mad. We think in our own small way we're helping. We're making mistakes. But at the end of the day we like to think in some way we've helped some animal have a chance at a great life. Not just adequate - but great.

[SonshineLearner]

You know, I adopted a dog from a humane society. It's an inside dog, he'll bark if the door is closed with no one outside with him. We fudged a bit on the fence thing, because we were redoing ours at the time. I walked him for ...no joke...three hours a day when I first got him. I took him to training when I first got him. He sleeps in our room in a crate.... I feed him good food.... He'd like to be outdoors more, if we were! We took him camping where he stayed tied to a tree during the day when we were out. I was amazed! He loved it.... (and went with us when we went around) It doesn't matter where a dog is...if they are with their family. (he didn't even chew his rope that we used to tie him!!) The point with it is.... he's a dog.... we're his family.... he stays with us or in his crate. BUT, its an individual thing, he would be best put to sleep if he couldn't be with people....

Carrie

[fivetails]

But at the end of the day we like to think in some way we've helped some animal have a chance at a great life. Not just adequate - but great.

 

And you have. :grouphug:

 

I can understand why *some* of the rules are in place ~ but there's also been some stuff in this thread that truly makes no sense... no adoption if you aren't married? no adoption because one of your kids is visually impaired?

 

But yes, you have ~ as a matter of fact, see the cat in my av? His name is Max and he spent some time in both a shelter & a foster home before he came to live with me. I didn't adopt him from the shelter myself - another lady did, but because of an unexpected illness in her family, she needed someone to take him...that was almost three years ago.

 

If it hadn't been for the shelter & the foster family, Max mightn't be alive right now ~ he was one of four baby kittens left in a box on the side of the highway. Someone found them and called the shelter - what if there hadn't been anywhere to call? What if there hadn't been anyone willing to drive out into the country and pick up this box of squirming little orange furry things? What if there hadn't been anyone to give them the medical care they needed? To spend hours trying to get them to eat/drink? To keep them warm & dry? To give them the love & affection that they needed to feel safe again?

 

I might think some of the *weird* restrictions are nonsensical, but believe me, I'm very thankful that shelters exist ~ and that people like you and all the others who volunteer through these organizations are there for the animals that need you. :)

[Impish]

One of the rescues in my area won't allow you to adopt if you rent.

 

Kid you not. Even though we have proof from the condo association and our personal land lords that we are indeed allowed pets, the fact that we rent is an automatic no.

 

Kills me, it really does. I've visited their website on and off for two years, and there are many dogs that are STILL in foster care, not adopted from my first visit to now.

 

How in the name of all that's right is a dog supposed to not pine for a foster home they've been in for several years? And if renters aren't allowed, people with children under 7 aren't allowed, and other rules that seem to pop up...Oh, I feed my dogs raw diet, that's not allowed either...Exactly WHO do they think is left?

 

There's no question in my mind that they are not their own worst enemy, but the poor dogs in the rescue.

[Peek a Boo]

I'm not b&w on this. All along I'm just trying to explain that people on the other side are doing their best. If someone doesn't like it, join us. Get involved. Foster. Run for the board. Fundraise. Tell us how we can do things better. See what's working. Learn about what's not working. Start your own rescue. There are tons of animals needing help.

 

.....But at the end of the day we like to think in some way we've helped some animal have a chance at a great life. Not just adequate - but great.

 

*I'm* not saying that *you* are a B&W/gotta-be-this-way kind of person. But the policies at several SPCA shelters ARE right there in B&W. I had an email discussion w/ the wife of a local regional SPCA supervisor and she WOULD prefer to see animals put down than possibly, maybe, exposed to something that might, if it got too bad, kill them.

 

The biggest deal is, tho, that there are plenty of owners who ARE great pet owners, and they spend enough time w/ their outdoor dogs to know that the dogs ARE happy. Kinda like parenting -- some kids do GREAT on a short leash w/ mom and dad all the time. Other kids do GREAT being able to leave the pack for periods of time.

 

We need to be careful that just because we see one method "works" and keeps the animals "safe" doesn't mean it is "the best" way to raise a dog [or person].

 

Personally, I would rather see a checklist of criteria, and something like "you must meet 10 of 15 of these criteria" and those include stuff like

 

*letter from local vet showing you've spoken w/ them about adopting an animal.

*will be an indoor dog

*will be outside in a fenced yard

*will be with other socialized dogs

*proper shelter for inclement weather

*daily interaction with people

*will complete basic obedience course

*I have X number of years training/showing dogs

*have worked with rescue/foster organizations before

 

etc, etc. Give people a chance to share what they CAN do, instead of raising the bar so high that dogs will die.

 

I've worked w/ a lot of breeders and foster families in our area on several ordinances the last 2 years. I can safely say that not every dedicated foster/rescue family shares your worst-case scenario view. ;)

 

So from the angle of other people who DO work with animals, ARE involved, and advocate for pets, the organizations that would rather definitively kill a dog than risk it being happy are NOT "doing their best."

 

When the SPCA begs people to adopt an animals, then turns them down, it is NOT the fault of the bad owners that dumped the dog that the dog is still homeless. It is now squarely on the shoulders of the organization that refused an adoptive home. So I don't want to see their advertisements trying to guilt me into adopting because "X number of animals die each year -won't you help?" --baloney. if you want animals to stop dying, then stop killing them.

 

Best and adequate are going to be very subjective terms.

And i tend to err of the side of LIFE.

[inactive]

We applied once to adopt a lab-mix puppy. They checked our references, checked with our vet, etc. and when they found out we had a kitten (7 wks old) that was up-to-date on shots but wasn't spayed yet, they denied our application.

 

The kitten wasn't old enough yet -- per our vet!!! He even called and talked with the shelter and their vet, but they refused to change their mind.:angry:

 

Hence, we no longer support that shelter...

[PineFarmMom]

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Edited August 30, 2009 by Texas T

[TravelingChris]

We are military and found a great breed rescue who let us adopt. Yes, they got the age wrong but so did our own veterinarian. (IT is hard to age dogs in early to mid adulthood if they have had good dental care). SO they got the age off by 1 1/2 to 2 years. We knew we were getting an adult dog. They did come an check our house with the interviewer's own dog and saw that we loved dogs. We did have references but not from a groomer since we had recently moved from overseas. They matched us up with a perfect dog for me and the family ( it had to be for me since dh travels and my kids would be in college before the dog could be expected to die). Well it turns out that my dog developed a heart valve condition and has congenital heart failure so that won't happen but he still is a very great match. No restrictions about my level of physical activity (of course we chose a breed I could handle with arthritis). No problems with a pool which we had in Florida when we adopted. We did have a fenced back yard and he did and does sleep indoors. He gets along fine with our cat (though our cat likes to swat him occasionally) and is great with the kids. He is not a barker but barks at doorbells like I want. Some rescues have reasonable rules. Not all are so restrictive.

[hillfarm]

I actually agree with the indoor-only shelter rule. Most dogs are not totally outdoor dogs...they were not bred to be so and they need human companionship. This is especially true of breeds like Golden Retrievers and Labs, which are very hardy, but need the companionship of humans for hours per day....

 

There's really no reason to keep a dog outdoors at night...and while I would love to live somewhere where we could let our dog run outdoors all day, I would never, ever keep her outside at night, not even in an insulated dog house. I really don't think it's right.

 

I completely and totally disagree with you. If dogs are so much better off living indoors, then why do I keep hearing about more and more of them having to be put on doggie Prozac? IMO, to an animal that would normally cover acres of ground in a day's time, just visiting all the scent spots, checking out the local wildlife, etc. living inside a human house must be like living in a big crate 24/7.

 

How can you possibly claim that there is no reason to keep a dog outdoors at night? We have one indoor and one outdoor dog. The outdoor dog has a job guarding our livestock day and night. One night we tried to keep her inside and when the coyotes began to howl, she tried to chew through our door to get out there to protect her sheep. We had to let her out before she battered herself bloody. I mean this kindly, but I believe you are anthropomorphising the situation--YOU might not want to be outside at night, but dogs are differently equipped than you. They have hair covering their bodies, vision better adapted to see in the dark, a better sense of smell, better hearing, and an entirely different brain that we humans may never fully comprehend. They are not furry people, they are magnificent in their own right. They do not need to be viewed as second class people, cosseted and pampered.

[creekland]

When the SPCA begs people to adopt an animals, then turns them down, it is NOT the fault of the bad owners that dumped the dog that the dog is still homeless. It is now squarely on the shoulders of the organization that refused an adoptive home. So I don't want to see their advertisements trying to guilt me into adopting because "X number of animals die each year -won't you help?" --baloney. if you want animals to stop dying, then stop killing them.

 

Best and adequate are going to be very subjective terms.

And i tend to err of the side of LIFE.

 

You and I are very much in agreement. I agree with your whole post, but just kept this part that sums up my main 'basic' thought on the subject.

[creekland]

I completely and totally disagree with you. If dogs are so much better off living indoors, then why do I keep hearing about more and more of them having to be put on doggie Prozac? IMO, to an animal that would normally cover acres of ground in a day's time, just visiting all the scent spots, checking out the local wildlife, etc. living inside a human house must be like living in a big crate 24/7.

 

How can you possibly claim that there is no reason to keep a dog outdoors at night? We have one indoor and one outdoor dog. The outdoor dog has a job guarding our livestock day and night. One night we tried to keep her inside and when the coyotes began to howl, she tried to chew through our door to get out there to protect her sheep. We had to let her out before she battered herself bloody. I mean this kindly, but I believe you are anthropomorphising the situation--YOU might not want to be outside at night, but dogs are differently equipped than you. They have hair covering their bodies, vision better adapted to see in the dark, a better sense of smell, better hearing, and an entirely different brain that we humans may never fully comprehend. They are not furry people, they are magnificent in their own right. They do not need to be viewed as second class people, cosseted and pampered.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Did I mention I 100% agree with you too? Dogs are dogs. While they can be acclimated to live with people in their houses it by no means means it's the best for them - esp 24/7. That said, living tied to a stake 24/7 isn't any better...

[PineFarmMom]

.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Texas T

[Peek a Boo]

The outdoor dog has a job guarding our livestock day and night. One night we tried to keep her inside and when the coyotes began to howl, she tried to chew through our door to get out there to protect her sheep. We had to let her out before she battered herself bloody.

 

A friend down the road keeps her 5 Old English Sheepdogs inside --or with her-- 99% of the time. But they are showdogs --happy to sleep on the couch.

 

Some dogs are still being used to do what they were bred to do: WORK.

[PineFarmMom]

.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Texas T

[CatMomof3]

I think the shelters really need to study each case individually. Having the policy that your dog HAS to be an indoor dog frankly is dumb. I know there are the cases of abuse for some outdoor dogs, but that can also be the case for indoor dogs. With the OP the dog was sent back for being destructive. The dog was probably bored out of its mind and needed to get some energy out or have a job. Our shepherd mix is over 12 years old (we don't know because we are her third owner). We have only had her for a few months, but her "job" is following my son around. That is the job she pick and that is what she does. She sleeps by his bed every night and does not move until he wakes up. When we got her I wanted her to be an outdoor dog, but the first owners had her an inside dog for 10 years. When I found this out my dh and I brought her in the house. She and my kids are much happier. If (I should say when) we get a nice piece of property, we will be getting a couple of outside dogs.

[Mommyof4ks]

I think the shelters really need to study each case individually. Having the policy that your dog HAS to be an indoor dog frankly is dumb. I know there are the cases of abuse for some outdoor dogs, but that can also be the case for indoor dogs. With the OP the dog was sent back for being destructive. The dog was probably bored out of its mind and needed to get some energy out or have a job. Our shepherd mix is over 12 years old (we don't know because we are her third owner). We have only had her for a few months, but her "job" is following my son around. That is the job she pick and that is what she does. She sleeps by his bed every night and does not move until he wakes up. When we got her I wanted her to be an outdoor dog, but the first owners had her an inside dog for 10 years. When I found this out my dh and I brought her in the house. She and my kids are much happier. If (I should say when) we get a nice piece of property, we will be getting a couple of outside dogs.

 

This is what I was thinking. We bought a chocolate lab puppy and tried to keep her inside, but she HATED it an chewed up EVERYTHING. She had soooo much energy that she really needed to be outside, but we did not have a fence so we had to relocate her. Our basset on the other hand is a lazy inside dog that is perfectly happy going for a walk to check out the rabbit trails and whatnot. She will not stay outside for more than a few minutes before barking nonstop to come back inside to lay on the couch. Every dog is different.

 

The shelter should spend more time figuring out what the dog needs IMO rather than enforcing arbitrary rules that might make the dog unhappy.

[Impish]

Our puppy is a Great Pyr x Akbash. She's a guardian breed, and the farm we got her from, its what they're bred for, guarding livestock.

 

She's assumed responsibility for our children, and to a lesser degree, Wolf and I.

 

She whines and carries on if the kids are in the yard without her. She cries if she's unable to see one of her people.

 

We plan to get an acreage as soon as feasible, and at that time she will be indoor/outdoor, as she prefers. We intend to get livestock on a small degree, and I have no doubt that she'll focus on guarding the livestock and being outdoors in the long run, while still being with the kids when they're outside.

 

We plan to get another dog, either as company to her, and to guard outside. An Akbash if we can find one.

 

I don't intend to consider rescues at that time, but to go straight to a breeder.

 

I'll never get an animal from a rescue, ever again. We did get our cat from one, and he's lovely. But a dog? No. Not even a consideration.

 

And as an aside, I get completely frustrated with folks that have a near hissy fit when you tell them you are going to a breeder instead of a rescue, telling you that you're condemning a dog to death, etc. I'm NOT responsible for a single animal being placed at the SPCA or a rescue society. All my animals have either died, or in the case of a pug we had last year that we were lied to about his temperment, and he was NOT at all fit for a family with small kids, we searched and waited for the right home to rehome him to. We were completely upfront about his nervous disposition, etc. I didn't want him getting rehomed yet again.

 

Just as I would never ever consider telling someone they should adopt a child rather than have one biologically, I don't at all understand the mindset of ppl that go nuts when you refuse to consider a rescue animal. Its a family decision, period. As long as I can care for my pets in the ways they require, I don't see how its anyone's concern how they come to my family.

[chaik76]

I'm curious, for the people who agree with this, do you happen to live in the city?

 

I'm not trying to argue, I just don't understand. I was brought up on a farm and we've always had outdoor dogs. I truly don't see anything wrong with it. I think of indoor dogs as small dogs who were meant to be cute house dogs. I'm really surprised at some of the comments in this thread, and I happen to agree with the majority of peoples opinions...a dog or cat for that matter would be happier outside at my house than locked up in a cage somewhere.

 

FWIW, we now own a golden that I bought, and a beagle who showed up on our doorstep one day and didn't want to leave. These two dogs are in our fenced in backyard and they are crazy about each other. They lay around ALOT, but then they play ALOT. We do go out there with them, but not all the time and I don't feel like we are mistreating them at all...in a perfect world I'm sure they'd love us to be out there with them all day, just as I'd love a housekeeper and cook to move into my house:D.

 

Alison

We live rurally. Our dog is an indoor dog and she is NOT caged. She does have a crate that she enters voluntarily to sleep in, but it is open and she can choose to come and go from it as she pleases. My grandparents bred Great Danes, and we have had dogs my entire life. We've had husky mixes, Chesapeake bay retrievers, a Visla-Lab mix and currently have a Golden Retriever. They have never, ever been outdoor dogs, although when we still had a farm with acreage they were allowed to run with free will and glee.

 

I completely and totally disagree with you. If dogs are so much better off living indoors, then why do I keep hearing about more and more of them having to be put on doggie Prozac? IMO, to an animal that would normally cover acres of ground in a day's time, just visiting all the scent spots, checking out the local wildlife, etc. living inside a human house must be like living in a big crate 24/7.

 

How can you possibly claim that there is no reason to keep a dog outdoors at night? We have one indoor and one outdoor dog. The outdoor dog has a job guarding our livestock day and night. One night we tried to keep her inside and when the coyotes began to howl, she tried to chew through our door to get out there to protect her sheep. We had to let her out before she battered herself bloody. I mean this kindly, but I believe you are anthropomorphising the situation--YOU might not want to be outside at night, but dogs are differently equipped than you. They have hair covering their bodies, vision better adapted to see in the dark, a better sense of smell, better hearing, and an entirely different brain that we humans may never fully comprehend. They are not furry people, they are magnificent in their own right. They do not need to be viewed as second class people, cosseted and pampered.

You hear about doggie prozac because people are not exercising their animals properly, or taking care of them properly. I do not anthropomorphise our animals. They are animals, pure and simple, not people. They are expected to lead animal lives, and we ensure that we are their pack leaders, not their moms and dad.

 

There are still dogs that are bred to be outdoor dogs, but there aren't many. You have a working dog, that is trained to be an outdoor dog (along with having been bred and having a natural instinct to be such). Most dogs are no longer outside dogs.

 

Most people no longer have the area or the safety to allow animals to roam outdoors. Even when we lived totally in the country, smack in between two farms (we live on the side of a mountain now...rural, but not farm country) we did NOT allow our dogs to be outside dogs. First, the majority of people in America do NOT have enough land to let their dogs roam safely on their own property. When we lived in the country our main concern with having the dog out at any time without a human nearby was hunters...Goldens and labs are often shot during hunting season, as they are mistaken for deer.

 

I'm going to reiterate here that I do NOT think that all dogs are indoor dogs. There are, indeed, some outdoor dogs. And if you have enough land almost any dog can live well as primarily an outdoor dog. But if you live in a house in suburbia, or town, or in an apartment in the city, an outside dog is usually bored out of his mind. Many, many people who have outdoor dogs do not care for them. They have no work, no companionship (from other animals or humans) and are often chained or kenneled in extreme conditions, including heat and cold beyond what they were bred to endure. I have seen too many maltreated dogs in my lifetime.

 

Yes, I've seen great outdoor farm dogs...but, in those cases, those dogs had real work to do and the family was also outdoors much of the time. The dogs had leadership, quality care, etc.

 

The winters here are too hard for dogs to be outdoors...except for a few hardy breeds. And the summers are too hot...dogs left outdoors completely around here often die of heat exhaustion in summer. We have extreme temperatures during two of our seasons.

 

I've never owned a small dog, nor do I plan to. All of our dogs have been in the "large" breed range. And yes, keeping an indoor dog is a lot of work...I must make sure our dog is properly exercised, properly socialized, etc. Perhaps if I lived on a working farm or ranch I would feel differently. But I don't...and neither do the majority of Americans. The fact remains, that for the majority of dogs, being an outdoor dog in today's society where most people live in subdivisions, towns, and cities, is not a good idea.

[SW in IL]

A friend's dog died and a year later they went to adopt a dog from their local shelter. They were denied mainly because they live in a trailer. They were told that it was too small an area for them to have a dog. Funny thing about it was that their (grown) daughter also went there to adopt a dog and was turned down because they owned too much land and the shelter didn't believe that any dog they adopted would be an indoor dog.

 

Anyway, turned out that our friend managed to adopt a dog from a relative who had to go into a nursing home. Now, 2 years later, she is happy, healthy, 100+ pound border collie... Living inside the same trailer that was "too small" for the 20 pound poodle mix they tried to adopt originally.

 

I do see the reasons behind many of the rules requiring adoption but it seems to me that if people would take things on a case-by-case basis and use some common sense, we'd be doing these animals a favour.

 

Sue

[Impish]

Oh, I realize that. Not worried, any which way it goes. :D

[zaichiki]

Now, 2 years later, she is happy, healthy, 100+ pound border collie... Living inside the same trailer that was "too small" for the 20 pound poodle mix they tried to adopt originally.

A *100* pound Border Collie??? Are you sure??? Aren't they usually less than half that size?

 

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/bordercollie.htm

[katemary63]

But with time our attitudes have changed. I'm ever so gently suggesting that this is an attitude that should change as well.

 

I don't have an "attitude" that needs to change, no matter how gently. I made it VERY clear in my post about Miller that I did NOT think it was an ideal life for a dog and that I would NEVER purposely aquire a dog with the intention to keep it outside on a cable. I said that Miller's life with us was a better life then living inside a no-kill shelter in a 3X5 kennel or dead on the road or ferrel and starving (many, many dogs in AR are ferrel ) Miller is safe, healthy and most of the time - happy. It's the lesser of several evils. But most importantly, he is alive and I think he is glad to be so. We sure love him.

 

I know a lady down the road from me. She has about 100 dogs (maybe even more) (no, she's not a hoarder, trust me, I've been there). All her dogs are abandonded, neglected, abused or emaciated strays that she has nursed back to health. She has a large farm and has them in groups of 10 or so in large fenced areas, with giant custom built dog houses that fit them all. She works with the local vet and has had them ALL altered and given medical care. I guess she calls herself a rescue but she is rich so she doesn't take in donations as far as I know. She does adopt out some dogs, but in AR, there are thousands of unwanted dogs, so it is hard to find homes. She is saving their lives. She is not providing them with a rocking chair in front of the fire. She is doing the best that she can and more then anyone could ever expect at her own expense. I know that the dogs she has are better off with her then they were before. That may be about it, but for a lot of dogs, that's all there's ever going to be.

 

The point is, we have to deal with the excess of pets. There are too many, and not every one is going to find a couch to sleep on. A less then human life is a better life then death. THAT was my point in telling Miller's story. If you are going to insist on finding only the most perfect beyond perfect homes for every stray animal, then a lot of them are going to be put to sleep and that is just wrong. THAT is the point I think MOST people on here have been trying to make.

 

I guess we all should acknowledge the real cause of this tragic problem. People need to STOP breeding their dogs and cats! The problem is too many dogs and cats. The solution to THAT is to stop the reproduction! I'm not at all sure how to get that done. But in the mean time, with the ones that are here - it would be nice to help as many as possible to have as nice a life as possible. They aren't all going to get the perfect life. It just isn't going to happen. But food, water, medical care and a pat now and then is about what they'd get living in a no-kill. Anything more then that is acceptable.

Edited August 25, 2009 by katemary63

[sandellie4]

:iagree:

 

I work for an animal rescue, and to see these animals come in, it breaks my heart. It's so cruel to raise animals that need to bond with humans and then neglect and abuse them. Sometimes we do agree to an outdoor dog, but only if we really verify that the "doggie heaven" isn't actually a chain attached to a tree or pole outside. I would, personally, approve a dog for any of you. Anyone who makes kids a priority enough to homeschool or after-school them is probably a really good bet. But many of the people who come to look at dogs expect to walk out with one, without any concept of how much work it's going to be, or that the dog is going to need training because he's never learned to walk without pulling his owner's arm out of its socket, or that the dog may turn out to have an illness we didn't catch. I don't lie to prospective owners, but I've made plenty of mistakes. I once let a dog go to a home only to find out from a frantic owner that the dog had WORMS. We actually test and treat for worms before releasing animals, but this one was blind so we had put him in a different kennel because the first one was too crowded and frightening for him. Turns out he got worms at the kennel. The woman was so irate that she dumped this dog outside the shelter, at the edge of a busy road, and one of our volunteers had to rush out there in the middle of the night so he wouldn't get hit by a car. It was a mistake, our mistake, but was that really the only way for the woman to handle it? We've made other mistakes, too: we only guess at ages, breeds, etc. Do I care whether there's a fence? Not really. If it's an indoor or outdoor dog? Not really. What I really want is for the animal to finally find a safe and secure home. But I don't know how to do that, especially with such limited resources and scant volunteer staff. The whole situation is just sad. It's sad that people let their dogs bond to them and then abandon them, that they move and leave them behind like old furniture, that they say they're going to take good care of them and instead use them as "bait" for fighting dogs. I don't know what the answer is. I just wish the world were a better place for animals -- and people.

 

Sandy

 

Until you have been the person on the other side of the organization, the person who holds the dogs while they get the 'pink liquid', the person who holds & cuddles them and tells them they're good dogs while they're being put to sleep - until you do that hundreds and hundreds of times, you won't get it.

 

And I know you'll say now - well, if they're so over crowded, why don't they just adopt the dog out to anyone who asks?

 

And the answer is BIG PICTURE. It's about these dogs and it's also about the state of animal welfare as a whole. Criteria are put in because we see the dogs come IN. From yards, chained in fences, living in a cramped dog house all their lives. Most pets have over 5 owners in their lives - because people keep handing them off to friends, family, through craigslist & dumped in shelters or picked up as strays or seized in cruelty investigations. Some shelters have dogs that come & in out several times - one of the strategies is to implement stricter adoption criteria so that the home is the 'forever home'.

 

There ARE people who can have outside dogs & do a good job of caring for them. Unfortunately, they are RARE. Most outside dogs are neglected, don't see vets, don't get the training they need. Until we get that big picutre cultural shift changed, the animal advocates are doing their best for each and every dog that comes into the system.

 

It is a very awful, heartbreaking thing. People think they can walk in & get anything they want. They don't understand the home visits, the checking of references, the application forms. And they don't understand they may be denied.

 

I know it's hard & I know rescues & shelters are often stumbling about & I know mistakes are made.

 

But it is one piece of changing the perception, the value, the commitment to animals in our culture. YOU would provide great care. Most people won't. I can't tell you how sad this work is ----- & I'm on the periphery of it, nowhere near the center of the --itstorm where all the ugliness happens.

 

When we hear outdoor home, THIS is what we think of:

photos:

http://www.dogsdeservebetter.com/pictures.html

 

video of Judith & her happy ending

http://www.animaladvocates.com/videos/judith/?showvideo=true&video=1&format=flash

 

 

What a difference a day makes - Eddy's story:

http://www.animaladvocates.com/videos/happy-endings/?showvideo=true&video=2&format=windowsmedia

 

These are short clips. I hope everyone will watch them & for just a moment try to find the empathy which makes some humane societies & rescues act the way they do.

[amy g.]

I have all extremes of inside /outside dogs and everything in between.

 

My Yorkie is always inside. She tries to sneak out, but when she gets excited, her collapsing trachea makes her sound like a duck, and she can not hide from us.

 

My Chihuahua is anywhere I am. he sleeps in the bed, but if I go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, he goes with me. When I go out to milk, he sits under my stool.

 

Our Lab is always outside because Miss Good had terrible asthma when we first got him.

 

The Basset was supposed to be an indoor dog, but she prefers to be outside with the lab. They are never separated. They play in the creek together, and go in the truck to the dry cleaners, and gas station, and feed store.

 

The Great Pyrenees has never been in the house. She moved straight from the barn where she was born to our barn. She is still very attached to us. she guards her goats, but she will jump in our laps if we sit down outside.

 

I really do not see how one environment could be best for all dogs. It just doesn't make sense to demand that they all be kept inside.

[Cindyg]

...Criteria are put in because we see the dogs come IN. From yards, chained in fences, living in a cramped dog house all their lives.... Most outside dogs are neglected, don't see vets, don't get the training they need.....

 

Then why don't animal shelters and rescues require owners to commit to not leaving dogs chained in yards, not leaving dogs in cramped dog houses, having at least yearly vet checks, and attending a dog training class?

 

If these are your issues, why not stick to these issues? Why assume a dog inside a house will have a great life but a dog outside will be chained up, neglected, and have no health care? It's a leap in logic.

 

My dogs are indoor dogs, but my previous dog, a Sheltie, far preferred to be outside. Happily for her, she had a doggy door and could come and go as she pleased. It "pleased" her to be outside 90% of the time. Her choice.

[Joanne]

My question is are dogs who are kept "out" abused at a higher percentage rate than "in" dogs?

 

We are discussing a family being declined because their dog will be outside, so I get that's the focus of the thread. However, I've worked for a rescue organization (we did not have a shelter, we had foster homes and raised money for land, shelter, etc). I saw my share of abused animals, and those abused and living "inside" were equally represented.

 

I just think that there is likely other risk factors, markers or identifiers other than "inside" or "outside" dogs.

[Peek a Boo]

Then why don't animal shelters and rescues require owners to commit to not leaving dogs chained in yards, not leaving dogs in cramped dog houses, having at least yearly vet checks, and attending a dog training class?

 

If these are your issues, why not stick to these issues? Why assume a dog inside a house will have a great life but a dog outside will be chained up, neglected, and have no health care? It's a leap in logic.

 

excellent points.

 

It's a leap in logic because the shelters are operating from emotion, not logic.

[answerdeskwtm]

zombie thread; please start a new one on a topic of interest to you