Ginevra Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I mean this with more light humor than it will probably seem, but honestly, this really chaps my hide. My house is neat, my home is pretty and newish; my husband is a contractor and built it just the way I like it. :) So sue me! I am the support group leader for my co-op this coming year and I had the first meeting. One woman, an avowed "messy" remarked about my house and it's relative neatness and niceness. But what really bugs me is that she tried to make her slobbery the virtue and my neatness, the vice. "I couldn't care less about status." "I don't want to spend my life worrying about my house." I know philosophically, her ploy is simply to make herself feel better about being messy by putting me subtley down for being neat. I get it, but I find it annoying anyhow. If the shoes were on the other feet, I would never go to a messy person's house and aim to demean their mess. So why is it fine to take little shots at me for being neat? I think this is one of those situations where you can't really win...if my house was a disaster, people would talk. But since it's neat...people will talk. Now I just have to hope she doesn't read these boards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Katia Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I hear you loud and clear, sister. :grouphug: One woman in particular kept making nasty remarks about my clean and neat house. I mean, every.single.time. she stepped in the door OR even when we were somewhere completely different (like at church). After months and months of this I had had enough. After a very vague (but clearly aimed at me) jab about those that take so much time keeping their houses "just so-so" I said, "Well, it certainly beats living in squalor." She never said another word about my clean house. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcjlkplus3 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 My house is MOSTLY neat whenever non-family comes by - I aim for the main level and try not to think about the basement playroom or the bedrooms, but I would never make comments about someone's house being cleaner than mine, they may be more along the lines of "I'd like my house to look as nice as yours, but that would mean that I have to clean more - and I don't want to." Never that it is in any way a bad thing that they prefer living in neatness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole M Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I don't know. I think people generally feel like crap about themselves and tend to put down those of us who have our acts kinda-sorta together. It's the same with homeschooling. They seem to feel it's some sort of indictment against them that I do it and they don't. Not sayin' it's okay. It's not. But it is sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJoy Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 People who do that are annoying, aren't they? As a person with a cluttered house, I say, good job! I am impressed by people who are neat or have less random stuff than me. I don't make passive-aggressive comments to my friends who have achieved this! I don't know if it will make you feel better, but remember that neat housekeepers have a way to make their own passive-aggressive jabs. I know people who need attention for their neatness, and thus dramatically proclaim, "Oh, my house is a disaster!" when they have one load of clean laundry on the couch, and that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginevra Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 After a very vague (but clearly aimed at me) jab about those that take so much time keeping their houses "just so-so" I said, "Well, it certainly beats living in squalor." :lol: I'll have to remember this if it becomes our regularly-discussed topic at meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginevra Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 My house is MOSTLY neat whenever non-family comes by - I aim for the main level and try not to think about the basement playroom or the bedrooms, That was one of things I thought was a little funny about her comments. It's not as though she toured my whole house. It's not pin-perfect from chimney to basement. And wouldn't you kinda expect a first meeting at someone's house to look like they gave a care? I don't know if it will make you feel better, but remember that neat housekeepers have a way to make their own passive-aggressive jabs. I know people who need attention for their neatness, and thus dramatically proclaim, "Oh, my house is a disaster!" when they have one load of clean laundry on the couch, and that's it. That's good for me to remember. In my eyes, my standards have come so very far down from my OCD-no-kids days. Back then, I couldn't have rested with a single spoon in the sink. Now I feel like I am amazed at the general disorder I live with regularly! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncmomo3 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) If the shoes were on the other feet, I would never go to a messy person's house and aim to demean their mess. So why is it fine to take little shots at me for being neat? I think this is one of those situations where you can't really win...if my house was a disaster, people would talk. But since it's neat...people will talk. I have been in the very situation that you described. I do not understand it either. It just seems very condescending in order to make most incomprehensible point.:confused: Sorry you were on the end of a thoughtless comment. Edited August 21, 2009 by ncmomo3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 As a person with a cluttered house, I say, good job! I am impressed by people who are neat or have less random stuff than me. I don't make passive-aggressive comments to my friends who have achieved this! :iagree: Passive aggressive is passive aggressive, and if it wasn't your clean house, it would be something else about you that makes them feel inferior (even if they can't admit it!). Ignore her, or have some fun making your own snarky comments back :lol: I don't know if it will make you feel better, but remember that neat housekeepers have a way to make their own passive-aggressive jabs. I know people who need attention for their neatness, and thus dramatically proclaim, "Oh, my house is a disaster!" when they have one load of clean laundry on the couch, and that's it. Well, to be fair, some of us are control freaks who can only think about the filthy downstairs bathroom that no one can see but should be condemned, or the fact that their seemingly clean kitchen floor really needs a serious mopping. I know that I always feel like I'm one second away from having the closet doors come busting open or from someone looking too closely at my hideous hall carpet :blushing: When I say my house is a disaster even though it looks neat, it's because in my head, it's the very barest minimum of clean. It's a neurosis, I'll admit it. Just so long as you don't look behind my shower curtain :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirth Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 It is just the opposite of self-deprecating jokes which makes some people so charming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginevra Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 Well, to be fair, some of us are control freaks who can only think about the filthy downstairs bathroom that no one can see but should be condemned, or the fact that their seemingly clean kitchen floor really needs a serious mopping. I know that I always feel like I'm one second away from having the closet doors come busting open or from someone looking too closely at my hideous hall carpet :blushing: When I say my house is a disaster even though it looks neat, it's because in my head, it's the very barest minimum of clean. It's a neurosis, I'll admit it. Just so long as you don't look behind my shower curtain :lol: I can relate to this! I do think that sometimes when a neat-freak says, "Oh, my house is a disaster!" when it seems nothing of the sort, it's not that they are fishing to be groomed with compliments. It's that they really can't believe they didn't get that basket of laundry squirrelled out of view before someone arrived. However, I am sure there are also those who are looking for attention and say it for just such a purpose. My sister used to go around declaring how fat she had gotten, when she was smaller than about 99% of the population. I'm not sure what her motive was, but I think she honestly saw herself as fat, because she was bigger than before. But it did make me cringe when she would say that, as she was always the tiniest person in the room. I'm sure the larger people thought, "I wonder how gigantic she must think I am!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I hear you loud and clear, sister. :grouphug: One woman in particular kept making nasty remarks about my clean and neat house. I mean, every.single.time. she stepped in the door OR even when we were somewhere completely different (like at church). After months and months of this I had had enough. After a very vague (but clearly aimed at me) jab about those that take so much time keeping their houses "just so-so" I said, "Well, it certainly beats living in squalor." She never said another word about my clean house. :D Was she really living in squalor -- or did you just want her to stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 That really bugs me, too. Grrr. As the leader, maybe you'll be able to counteract her slobbish comments. It's pervasive, though. It really is tricky to have a houseful of people at home all day and keep it tidy, but it IS possible. I think it's better to encourage folks to be tidy and help them figure out strategies than to tell them it's ok if there are never clean clothes or home-cooked meals or for their feet to stick to the floors when they walk through the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Ah - I opened this thread hoping to find some rationalization for my slobbery....you really burst my bubble:tongue_smilie::lol: Seriously - that gal was rude...and may not even realize that she was rude...b/c she's so focused on herself to see anything or anyone else. If you have the chance to gently help her see how her words cut, do so....but I somehow think her mess is is a big issue to her and anything you say will not be interpreted as intended.:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtroad Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Jealousy is so wicked!:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginevra Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 It really is tricky to have a houseful of people at home all day and keep it tidy, but it IS possible. I think it's better to encourage folks to be tidy and help them figure out strategies than to tell them it's ok if there are never clean clothes or home-cooked meals or for their feet to stick to the floors when they walk through the house. Eureka! I am the one who gets to decide on the topic of discussion...maybe an upcoming topic will be "How in the World can we keep things neat with all these people roving through the house all the time!?!" :blush: If I can manage to be clever with it, perhaps I can suggest that it is important to keep things in some semblence of order, although admittedly, it's not easy. Jealousy is so wicked!:glare: I love the way you come straight to the point. :001_wub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda in TX Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I really struggle with housework, and I so admire those women whose houses are neat most of the time. I know it takes time and effort. Kudos to you and all other neatniks! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 This has been my life with my in-laws for the last 16 years. Imagine how annoying it is to come from family?! My in-laws are not neat and I am. I hear comments every single time we're together. I take the high road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Katia Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Was she really living in squalor -- or did you just want her to stop? The comment wasn't made 'to' her. It was just a general comment about how keeping your house neat and clean was certainly better than living in squalor (which I believe my house would be if I didn't keep it neat and clean). However, yes, she was living in squalor: cats pooping and peeing on piles of clean laundry laying all over the house (literally) children peeing on the living room furniture (and then you sit down and.....eww) baby chicks running loose in the bedrooms upstairs....with the birdy-poo that comes so freely out of chicks all.over.the.beds and floors. dirty dishes piled from one end of the kitchen to the other. Stacked 3 & 4 feet high, with kittens crawling in and out of them licking the dirty dishes/pans I could go on and on. We stopped going over there after we found the baby chick poo everywhere. I felt it was too unsanitary for my children to be in the midst of. I guess when you let yourself live like that, you feel a need to make nasty remarks about those who choose to live neat and clean lives. But, I don't have to listen to them over and over ad nauseum. I'm able to dish out as well as take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elw_miller Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I wonder if she may be a bit of a perfectionist, oddly enough. Perhaps she grew up being held to such high standards (in her mind or otherwise) that she is irrationally rebelling ("I'm not perfect and you can't make me") or she sets such high standards that she fears not attaining them and will then lose the "title" of perfect and perfectly clean. I know a grown woman who fits the first description and lives in a terrible mess (almost, but not quite as bad as the chick-poo on the beds house someone else described). The woman I know has made similar comments about people who keep clean houses (not directly to the clean people, though--just to me). The gal you describe doesn't sound like a very self-confident person. I wonder if she's so impressed by everything you can accomplish that she feels intimidated. I'm not excusing her behavior by any means! Good heavens it's bad manners! Do you think a private letter or conversation, honestly addressing the effects of her comment would help ameliorate the issue/relationship? Some people respond well to respectful honesty. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Bear Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 And I think it's really interesting, in the abstract. Doesn't it feel like these things are judged as moral issues? I think it's really more a question of brain function. Really. And that lady has probably been made to feel bad her whole life for being unable to track ___________ and she's sick to death of it and she's reversed the moral judgement to self-soothe a little. Much the same way people often do about all kinds of other issues. Shoot, she probably doesn't even know that she's a mess, internally, and I bet she contributes to her own dysfunction with all kinds of negative self-talk. Or maybe she's beginning to understand it and it's really uncomfortable, like growth usually is, and visiting your home in it's apparently "perfect" state has provided her with weeks of either self-condemnation or fodder for reorienting herself as she strives to learn new life skills. Whatever it may be, try thinking of her as suffering from a congenital neurotransmitter imbalance -- that little moment of compassion is tremendously freeing. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 The comment wasn't made 'to' her. It was just a general comment about how keeping your house neat and clean was certainly better than living in squalor (which I believe my house would be if I didn't keep it neat and clean). However, yes, she was living in squalor: cats pooping and peeing on piles of clean laundry laying all over the house (literally) children peeing on the living room furniture (and then you sit down and.....eww) baby chicks running loose in the bedrooms upstairs....with the birdy-poo that comes so freely out of chicks all.over.the.beds and floors. dirty dishes piled from one end of the kitchen to the other. Stacked 3 & 4 feet high, with kittens crawling in and out of them licking the dirty dishes/pans I could go on and on. We stopped going over there after we found the baby chick poo everywhere. I felt it was too unsanitary for my children to be in the midst of. I guess when you let yourself live like that, you feel a need to make nasty remarks about those who choose to live neat and clean lives. But, I don't have to listen to them over and over ad nauseum. I'm able to dish out as well as take. wow. sounds like squalor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 The comment wasn't made 'to' her. It was just a general comment about how keeping your house neat and clean was certainly better than living in squalor (which I believe my house would be if I didn't keep it neat and clean). However, yes, she was living in squalor: cats pooping and peeing on piles of clean laundry laying all over the house (literally) children peeing on the living room furniture (and then you sit down and.....eww) baby chicks running loose in the bedrooms upstairs....with the birdy-poo that comes so freely out of chicks all.over.the.beds and floors. dirty dishes piled from one end of the kitchen to the other. Stacked 3 & 4 feet high, with kittens crawling in and out of them licking the dirty dishes/pans I could go on and on. We stopped going over there after we found the baby chick poo everywhere. I felt it was too unsanitary for my children to be in the midst of. I guess when you let yourself live like that, you feel a need to make nasty remarks about those who choose to live neat and clean lives. But, I don't have to listen to them over and over ad nauseum. I'm able to dish out as well as take. Wow! I am a neat freak, if that's squalor!:001_huh: I should relabel myself. I am a clutter bug. A very sanitary clutter bug.:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 :lol: I'll have to remember this if it becomes our regularly-discussed topic at meetings. OUCH. That would be really hurtful, I would think. Is that really how you'd want to project yourself? Astrid (a pretty neat housekeeper, but hey, different strokes for different folks.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 That's good for me to remember. In my eyes, my standards have come so very far down from my OCD-no-kids days. Back then, I couldn't have rested with a single spoon in the sink. Now I feel like I am amazed at the general disorder I live with regularly! :D Preach it, sister! A quick scan of my living room turns up four, count 'em, four laundry baskets of clean clothes waiting to be folded, a dog crate turned on its side, the vacuum cleaner (which I ran today :D) waiting to be put away and all eight of our sofa pillows scattered about the floor. I say this as I sit here typing on a message board. It is like it doesn't even phase me anymore (well, not much anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 People who do that are annoying, aren't they? As a person with a cluttered house, I say, good job! I am impressed by people who are neat or have less random stuff than me. I don't make passive-aggressive comments to my friends who have achieved this! I don't know if it will make you feel better, but remember that neat housekeepers have a way to make their own passive-aggressive jabs. I know people who need attention for their neatness, and thus dramatically proclaim, "Oh, my house is a disaster!" when they have one load of clean laundry on the couch, and that's it. Yep!!! I actually had to have therapy on keeping a neat house because it was my mom's life. She would put everything else on hold to keep the house neat and clean. No one could relax around her. She never sat down. She was always making noise cleaning something. She missed important events in order to clean. She would wake people up with her cleaning. I have never been able to see the balance. So for a large portion of my life I have assumed that a neat and clean house when one has kids must mean that your priorities are whacked. Now I am trying to have a neat and clean house and I hope I can achieve it without ruining everything else in my life. That fear has kept me a slob all of these years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 And I think it's really interesting, in the abstract. Doesn't it feel like these things are judged as moral issues? I think it's really more a question of brain function. Really. Oh please tell me how you came to that conclusion. You have earned my respect. And that lady has probably been made to feel bad her whole life for being unable to track ___________ and she's sick to death of it and she's reversed the moral judgement to self-soothe a little. Yes, yes, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I don't know that I think these sorts of comments are intended to put anyone down. I can see how it could come across that way but do you really think that's the *intent*? As someone who grew up with parents who were messy and am now pretty dang clean, I interpret it differently. I interpret it to mean "I'm not good at housekeeping like quill, please don't be shocked or think badly of me when you see my house." I've seen plenty of people here make comments like "psh, I don't care what people think so I don't bother to dress nicely" or "I don't possibly have time to do make-up in the morning, that's crazy" and I don't take those as insults or put-downs, either. Don't you think those comments are similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5KidzRUs Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I am surprised that nobody brought up the "IF YOUR HOUSE IS CLEAN YOUR NOT HOMESCHOOLING!" motto that I lived by for the first few years of homeschooling - when I had four children under the age of five and one preteen. Now, I try have (me and) the house look like we are epecting company at all times. But the reality is that most of the time I am 15 to 60 minutes from accepting company. Ah, well, one day I will reach that UtOpiA :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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