I guess my DD age 15 is the only child

[Nestof3]

Question: If your 16 year old checked Twilight out of the library and stated that she had decided to read it ~ what would you do? (I'm honestly curious - would you tell her she could not read it in your home ~ ie, if she's gonna read it, she'd have to do it elsewhere.. library, friend's house, park, whatever ~ or flat out forbid it? Or would you allow her to read it at home if she chose?)

 

I can answer this for Aaron (our eldest). If we have discussed something as being detrimental for whatever reason, he just wouldn't bring it home to read. He'll ask me to check out movies on www.screenit.com to see if it's something he could watch. The reason I read the review it is because the sex scene info can be quite descriptive, and he wouldn't want those images in his head. He would not then go watch it anyway. He can watch things on Netflix instantly if he wanted to, but he doesn't.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Question: If your 16 year old checked Twilight out of the library and stated that she had decided to read it ~ what would you do? (I'm honestly curious - would you tell her she could not read it in your home ~ ie, if she's gonna read it, she'd have to do it elsewhere.. library, friend's house, park, whatever ~ or flat out forbid it? Or would you allow her to read it at home if she chose?)

 

I *would* forbid it if I had to (and I would feel I had to if she didn't just submit to the standard, ideally with full understanding and agreement).

 

I was just surprised reading as it sounds like some people are talking about picking out books for teens and feeling it's necessary to spell it out. Sure, those things must happen sometimes, but I would think that the average 3yo could say, "oh, we don't read that kind of book" or "we don't watch that show" and even explain why. I wouldn't think most teens would need micromanaging; they already know the standards and reasoning and hopefully have made it their own (but even if they haven't, they follow the not-necessary-to-state rules).

 

I'm not explaining very well. Yes, I would put my foot down if it came down to it; but on top of hoping I've given them the tools to figure out why not on their own, I would simply hope they'd respect our standards without me having to spell things out.

 

ETA: Like Dawn, we do sometimes research whether something that is coming out on tv or the movies is appropriate. We can do the same for books. My kids have done these things on their own as they wish to remain pleasing to God.

Edited August 3, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[kiana]

I was actually one of those kids without any restrictions as well - I was reading Stephen King novels before I even hit Junior High.. while I may be okay with the HP movies & books and the Twilight movie (but not the books, not yet) for dd12, I think I'd have a litter of pigs if I caught her with her nose buried in Carrie. ;)

 

In general, I had no restrictions either ... but when I was about 10, I found my Dad's copy (from when he was single) of a rather ... non-mainstream ... erotica book on a back-shelf, rather dusty ... rather than a litter of pigs, I think my mother delivered a litter of elephants when she found me reading it.

 

That shelf was hastily cleared :D. I'm taking a slight bit better care with what's left lying around!

[Crissy]

I can answer this for Aaron (our eldest). If we have discussed something as being detrimental for whatever reason, he just wouldn't bring it home to read. He'll ask me to check out movies on www.screenit.com to see if it's something he could watch. The reason I read the review it is because the sex scene info can be quite descriptive, and he wouldn't want those images in his head. He would not then go watch it anyway. He can watch things on Netflix instantly if he wanted to, but he doesn't.

 

Your descriptions of Aaron often remind me of my older son, Jeffrey. He usually asks me to look up a movie review before putting it in his Netflix queue.

[keptwoman]

I also don't restrict my kids reading. I also was not censored. I also read Steven King and VC Andrews, I read a couple of books by both authors and chose on my own that they were not authors whom I wanted to continue to read. I'll allow my kids the same.

I read voraciously as a child/adolescent, and widely. I agree with others who have said that literary trash can be read alongside literary treasure. In the end I find the trash gives you more appreciation for the treasure.

 

Also a BIG fan of Susan Coopers The Dark is Rising series. I loved it so much as a kid that I've re-read it twice as an adult.

[Dirtroad]

Hmm. Never heard of the series. But ~ isn't it a bit true to life then? Nobody is entirely good or entirely evil...no matter how they may come across on the outside. Know what I mean?

 

We are probably more wrong than right.. usually! However, there is Right & Wrong. In life, we chose one or the other and have consequences. That was the description about Lord of the Rings - they are complex characters but they make clear decisions with appropriate consquences.

 

However, kids don't know (often adults dont' recognize) wrong in many stories.... that is why books (& movies) need to make distinctions in young readers (viewers). Also, books that make wrong LOOK right are off the reading list immediately for younger readers here.

 

Older readers may need to face analysis and combing it out. It may be a biography that shows complexities, etc. They need to come much later for most young readers.... even some teens may not have discernment yet. However, the aware parent will be charged with helping them handle such issues in print and life.

 

This is also a bit of moral relativism creeping in and I don't want my kids adopting that worldview. If I give them books with clear good/bad guy stories... they get good examples. Later, when it is "all muddled up", they can look for the characteristics and behaviors that should prevail.

[Christy B]

Perhaps they contain ideas worth discussing? For example, the Vatican's newspaper praised the new HP movie.

 

To each his own.

 

Ah, yes, the HP books do, IMO, contain ideas worth discussing. However, I've found that you can *not* have those discussions with people who, in spite of having not read the books, are convinced that the books are evil.

[Dirtroad]

....... I think I'd have a litter of pigs if I caught her with her nose buried in Carrie. ;)

 

 

:lol: That is a great description!

[Peek a Boo]

The latest has gotten better press bc/ HP learns that it might be a good thing to know the SOURCE of the power/magic! In other words, it may have an evil source or a good source.

 

One of the biggest issues that we have with HP is that the lines between good/evil are blurred. So many younger readers are targeted by these books and it is very CRITICAL that these distinctions be CLEAR and easily to identify. HP books (like today's world) blur these distinctions. Lord of the Rings shows these distinctions... even the temptations... but the distinctions are clear.

 

 

one clarification: in HP, magic is a neutral tool that can only be used by people w/ a genetic ability to use it. The "source" is simply being able to determine the person's motives for using the tool. And throughout HP [not just "the latest"] Harry is encouraged to keep that in perspective. But he's a kid, and will make mistakes.

 

we've always found the distinctions to be obvious enough to find, especially when viewed in light of "nobody's perfect/ all have sinned."

[chaik76]

I also wasn't censored in my reading as a youth, and it was terrible for me. I so wish my mom would have stepped in and led me towards things that were more positive. :( I had great parents, but that is an area that they didn't step in. I read lots of Stephen King, Anne Rice, Judy Blume, other dark things by dark authors. I now realize I was exposed to too much too young through my reading, and I won't allow that with my dc. I lead them to try to search out things that are good, pure, honorable, etc.

Well, I was never into Anne Rice and only read a bit of Stephen King, but I have no problem with my kids reading these authors or Judy Blume. However, I don't really want the only stuff they read to be good, pure, and honorable. I'm looking for them to have a wide variety of life and reading experience by the time they are adults.

 

I was allowed to read Madame Bovary, The Good Earth, Torey Hayden, and other authors like that between ages 8-10 (as well as Robert Ludlum, Stephen King, Agatha Christie, other classics, childrens books, etc.). I read constantly...often multiple books per day. I credit my parents with allowing me to read so widely as it allowed me to develop a sense of the world and self.

Edited August 3, 2009 by chaik76

[keptwoman]

How is Judy Blume dark? We love Judy Blume. Fudge is funny.

[Greta]

One of the biggest issues that we have with HP is that the lines between good/evil are blurred.

 

I know I'm straying a bit from the topic, but could you give me an example of what you mean? I'm really curious. I know there have been characters all along who Harry thought were good but who turned out to be evil or vice versa. But that's really about how easy it is to be deceived by appearances, it wasn't about blurring the lines between good and evil. So I'm just not sure what you're referring to. Help?

[Veritaserum]

I know I'm straying a bit from the topic, but could you give me an example of what you mean? I'm really curious. I know there have been characters all along who Harry thought were good but who turned out to be evil or vice versa. But that's really about how easy it is to be deceived by appearances, it wasn't about blurring the lines between good and evil. So I'm just not sure what you're referring to. Help?

 

I've never understood this argument, either. The characters in Harry Potter aren't perfect, but it's pretty easy to see the conflict between good and evil. (Hint: Voldemort = bad ;)). There are a lot of great topics within HP. I love the whole discussion on the rights of non-human magical creatures, for example, or the question about whether or not a 17-yo can really know what's right and honorable and not use youth as an excuse for poor choices.

[Greta]

The characters in Harry Potter aren't perfect, but it's pretty easy to see the conflict between good and evil. (Hint: Voldemort = bad ;)). There are a lot of great topics within HP.

 

I completely agree. I've been thinking about it since I posted, and I still haven't come up with anything (from my admittedly faulty memory) that blurred the lines between good and evil. I thought they were, in fact, quite clear. I think it's a better series than it often gets credit for. I'm not arguing it's high literature, but it's not junk either, imo.

[PineFarmMom]

Well, I was never into Anne Rice and only read a bit of Stephen King, but I have no problem with my kids reading these authors or Judy Blume. However, I don't really want the only stuff they read to be good, pure, and honorable. I'm looking for them to have a wide variety of life and reading experience by the time they are adults.

 

.

 

I don't think you have to read everything you get your hands on to have plenty of reading experience as an adult. Operating Biblically, I do and will continue to encourage my children to pick things that will not bring darkness to them after they have read it. I can think of many scriptures to back up my worldview on this, but then, if someone doesn't think that way it will probably just be "foolishness" to them, and that's okay with me and my dc, as they've learned to expect that in the world. :)

 

I remember feeling a very forlorn, dark feeling after reading some Stephen King books and particularly Anne Rice. One Stephen King book had a situation with cruelty to an animal that disturbed me terribly when I read it...I would have been better to have never filled my mind with it, as I had such a terrible time getting the thought out of my mind. I realize now that it was the Lord urging me to use better discretion with what I put in my brain. There are sooooooooooo many better books to fill the mind with, even in the line of easy-reading, escape books.

 

About Judy Blume, to the person who wondered why I said she was dark, I don't think she's dark. I accidentally classified her in with the others. I don't think that Wifey & Forever were good for me at the ages I read them. There was really nothing beneficial at all, as I remember.

[Pajama Mama]

I completely agree. I've been thinking about it since I posted, and I still haven't come up with anything (from my admittedly faulty memory) that blurred the lines between good and evil. I thought they were, in fact, quite clear. I think it's a better series than it often gets credit for. I'm not arguing it's high literature, but it's not junk either, imo.

 

 

I'm speaking about the movies. Ds has read all of the books. The only thing that springs to mind is when someone Harry cares about is killed; he wants to avenge them. His uncle was killed and Harry injured the guilty person. He then stood over her fighting the urge to finish her off with Voldemort whispering in his ear to kill her. He didn't.

[keptwoman]

I completely agree. I've been thinking about it since I posted, and I still haven't come up with anything (from my admittedly faulty memory) that blurred the lines between good and evil. I thought they were, in fact, quite clear. I think it's a better series than it often gets credit for. I'm not arguing it's high literature, but it's not junk either, imo.

It's a long time since I read HP, I read the first few but haven't bothered reading on. I wondered if people were talking about Snape as blurring the lines between good and evil.

[6packofun]

In every single post I've ever seen on any forums EVER which started out "I guess we're the only ones...", that has never been true. You're not that unique, sorry. LOL

 

Just do the brag thing and be done with it because that was the point of posting anyhow. I love honesty.

[fivetails]

Question: If your 16 year old checked Twilight out of the library and stated that she had decided to read it ~ what would you do? (I'm honestly curious - would you tell her she could not read it in your home ~ ie, if she's gonna read it, she'd have to do it elsewhere.. library, friend's house, park, whatever ~ or flat out forbid it? Or would you allow her to read it at home if she chose?)

 

I *would* forbid it if I had to (and I would feel I had to if she didn't just submit to the standard, ideally with full understanding and agreement).

 

I was just surprised reading as it sounds like some people are talking about picking out books for teens and feeling it's necessary to spell it out. Sure, those things must happen sometimes, but I would think that the average 3yo could say, "oh, we don't read that kind of book" or "we don't watch that show" and even explain why. I wouldn't think most teens would need micromanaging; they already know the standards and reasoning and hopefully have made it their own (but even if they haven't, they follow the not-necessary-to-state rules).

 

I'm not explaining very well. Yes, I would put my foot down if it came down to it; but on top of hoping I've given them the tools to figure out why not on their own, I would simply hope they'd respect our standards without me having to spell things out.

 

ETA: Like Dawn, we do sometimes research whether something that is coming out on tv or the movies is appropriate. We can do the same for books. My kids have done these things on their own as they wish to remain pleasing to God.

 

aha! I knew I'd asked you this question, but there are several book/Twilight/etc threads on the go and I'd misplaced it. Thanks for answering ~ and I do understand what you're saying about a child hopefully having taken on the standards and reasoning that they were raised with, although I don't think it's necessarily written in stone that they will. I know I didn't - in both a negative and a positive fashion. I was raised by strict, Atheist parents (separate words - they were strict, and they were Atheists.. although also "strict Atheists" I guess LOL) -- and I went against their behavioural standards as a teenager in complete rebellion against..well..anything & everything.. and then I went against their standards for spiritual beliefs by becoming a Christian as an adult. Go figure. :tongue_smilie:

[Renee in NC]

Well, I was never into Anne Rice and only read a bit of Stephen King, but I have no problem with my kids reading these authors or Judy Blume. However, I don't really want the only stuff they read to be good, pure, and honorable. I'm looking for them to have a wide variety of life and reading experience by the time they are adults.

 

I was allowed to read Madame Bovary, The Good Earth, Torey Hayden, and other authors like that between ages 8-10 (as well as Robert Ludlum, Stephen King, Agatha Christie, other classics, childrens books, etc.). I read constantly...often multiple books per day. I credit my parents with allowing me to read so widely as it allowed me to develop a sense of the world and self.

 

:iagree:

[Hoggirl]

Ds turned twelve in June and has read all of HP over the summer. I found Searching for God in Harry Potter - author John Granger - to be quite interesting. It may or may not be on target, but it was helpful to me.

[Greta]

I'm speaking about the movies. Ds has read all of the books. The only thing that springs to mind is when someone Harry cares about is killed; he wants to avenge them. His uncle was killed and Harry injured the guilty person. He then stood over her fighting the urge to finish her off with Voldemort whispering in his ear to kill her. He didn't.

 

This was handled pretty differently in the movie than what the original story told. In the book, Harry tries to hurt her for killing his Godfather, but his spell doesn't work. She taunts him and says that you have to really mean it when you want to use a spell like that, and that his righteous anger wasn't enough -- his heart wasn't in it. The book makes no mention of him trying to kill her, or thinking about it, or Voldemort tempting him to do so.

 

It does bring up an interesting question though: can a truly good character do something bad, and still be good? I think so, depending on how it is handled. If it's a pattern, a true part of that person's character, then I'd have to say no. But if it's a one time mistake, and especially if it's something the character learns or grows from, then I'd have to say yes. I think it all depends on the intentions of the author, and I think that Rowling has portrayed Harry as a good-hearted though imperfect young man. You can't help but like Harry, and he's worth liking.

 

I haven't read Twilight, but from what I have heard about it, this may be a way in which they differ. I'm not so sure the main vampire character (forget his name) is worth liking. Aside from the whole issue of being a vampire, which I'd say is pretty problematic, isn't his treatment of the main female character pretty, um, questionable? Things like stalking her and telling her how much he wants to kill her? And we're supposed to feel all ooey gooey lovey over this guy? Again, haven't read it, so I may be misinterpreting, but that's what I'd call blurring the lines.

[Greta]

I wondered if people were talking about Snape as blurring the lines between good and evil.

 

You may be right. I'm not sure that's entirely fair, but you may be right. To me, there's a difference between not knowing whether the character is good or evil (until the end) and actually blurring the lines between what good and evil means. But others may differ in their assessment.

[Greta]

I found Searching for God in Harry Potter - author John Granger - to be quite interesting.

 

Thanks for mentioning this. It does sound interesting!

[Robin Hood]

I feel like my 10yo are the only 10 yos not reading it. I have chosen to know nothing about it and wonder if it is a bit too mature for a 10yo.

[Robin Hood]

In every single post I've ever seen on any forums EVER which started out "I guess we're the only ones...", that has never been true. You're not that unique, sorry. LOL

 

[fivetails]

telling her how much he wants to kill her?

 

He's a vampire. ;)

 

I still say the whole thing is getting way over-analyzed sometimes. It's a story ~ just a story. Quite a good one, IMO ~ just finished Breaking Dawn this morning (ha, and now I have this weird sorta day-after-Christmas sad feeling..kwim?) and I wish there was more - wait, that's not entirely true. I don't think it would be right for there to be more... /diff convo/ - anyway... Yep, he does some freaky things ~ he's a vampire. They do that. :tongue_smilie:

[Lovedtodeath]

#37 sorry to clog up the thread. I stopped reading here and want to mark it for later. :)

[Katiebug_1976]

My dd's 12 & 13 have not read any of the Harry Potter books or seen Twighlight (actually, never heard of the movie). They are completely not interested in these kinds of things, and for that I am VERY thankful!!!

[Greta]

Yep, he does some freaky things ~ he's a vampire. They do that. :tongue_smilie:

 

Right, I get that. :D And I'm not above reading that kind of book, or even enjoying it. I'm only saying that from what I know of it so far, I would definitely not lump it into the same category as Harry Potter. It *seems* like they have a very different message and intention. Though I won't know for sure until I read it, will I? :001_smile:

[Perry]

#37 sorry to clog up the thread. I stopped reading here and want to mark it for later. :)

 

Do you know that you can click on the little check mark next to the thread title and it will take you to the first unread message? I was here for months before I figured that out.

[Emma]

You still pick all of your 15 year olds reading material? I am not trying to be snarky, just curious! When will you allow her to choose books on her own?

 

 

:iagree: At 15, they need to begin making their choices. My 12 yr. old (now 13) dd read these and they really sparked her interest in reading again. She was a huge HP fan, but hadn't found anything to really enjoy just for fluff since until she found Twilight. I read them. They are FINE! They were clean, curse word free, innocent stories of what most teen girls feel is "true love." They don't have sex, they wait until marriage! This is the same dd who bought a book and brought it to me and said it made her too uncomfortable to continue reading (The Egypt Game.) I was so proud of her for making her choice, knowing why she made that choice, and bringing it to my attention. She has now been on a reading binge and I can't keep her in books. Some of it has been purely fluff, others have been great classics. She is learning to balance the two and appreciate each type for what it gives her. I don't want her to be afraid of any reading material. I want her to feel secure enough in her faith that she can filter books, movies, magazines, music through HER filter... not mine. I cannot force her to be a Christian. I can only show her the love, grace, and mercy of Jesus in our lives. If I don't let her begin making these choices now, then she will have a very difficult time when she goes off to college and is bombarded by much more serious choices than a vampire book. This is just my opinion, and not meant to step on anyone's toes, so please take it with a grain of salt.:001_smile:

[David]

We enjoyed reading Harry Potter books, and Harry Potter certainly made Latin more fun to learn: It's clear that J.K. Rowling was well-versed in Latin, and Roman and Greek mythology.

 

On this particular point, I tend to agree with Martin Cothran of Memoria Press when he says, "Literature is dangerous except when taken in large doses." Here's his take on the Harry Potter books.

[Stacia]

We enjoyed reading Harry Potter books, and Harry Potter certainly made Latin more fun to learn: It's clear that J.K. Rowling was well-versed in Latin, and Roman and Greek mythology.

 

:iagree: Even my fil (who learned Latin & Greek, among numerous other languages, in his Jesuit schooling) enjoyed all the Latin & Greek references in the HP books.

 

You may enjoy a book called "The Sorcerer's Companion". It is a fascinating book that discusses the mythology & folklore of many of the things mentioned in the HP books. The dc & I have totally enjoyed using this book alongside the HP books. Fascinating stuff.

[Ester Maria]

I don't censor what my children read. I do monitor it, in sense of being aware of what they read (and generally do in life), but I don't rule out the entire groups of works I deem "inappropriate". I may voice my opinion (and I have, a few times), but I don't actively forbid.

 

Both of my daughters (11 and 12 y.o.) have tried HP. The older one, well, it's not really her cup of tea I'd say; the younger one likes the series. They both also watched a couple of HP films, and the older one has read Twilight.

I see absolutely no problem in them being aware and in tune with the current popular culture around them, and the things their peers are into. As a matter of fact, I would feel it a slight handicap if they totally weren't into anything their peers were into, music-wise and books-wise. That doesn't mean that I encourage the "go with the crowd", but on the long run, I think more harm can be done from the "forbidden fruit" and the feeling they were forced to miss out on some things.

However, I say all that as somebody who is not burdened by a religious tradition which might require me to rule out some things for me to live in accordance with its teachings. I do understand why some parents wouldn't like their children to consume certain kind of materials. But the religious argument is simply not my preoccupation at this point (by the way, they also, both, read The Da Vinci Code).

 

Of course, those aren't the kind of works I'm going to offer. But if they find them out on their own, the best I can do as a mother is to let them know they can, and are encouraged to, talk to me even about that. To tell me what they liked, what they haven't, what impressed them, what disturbed them. I would hate to discover they were hiding books and their interests from me.

 

Last year my 12 y.o. came to me with a copy of Flowers of Evil and I thought I would have a heart attack. A beautiful, innocent child of that age reading Baudelaire?! Isn't Baudelaire the kind of reading they would postpone even in high school for the last year?

But then I thought, she's always been a precocious reader. So, she discovered Baudelaire. Okay. And she came straight to me. Excellent. That means that we've built trust and she feels no need to hide. Sure, I would have preferred her to read it older - but okay. She expressed her trust to me, now I have to trust her abilities to get it. So I talked to her - about Baudelaire, about Paris, about drugs and absynthe, about prostitution, about the "underground" life (she had also discovered Dostoevsky a little before Baudelaire in our home collection), about sex, about the way certain things are represented in art, about symbolism, about anything else she had a question on. I even showed her the examples of French poetry which announced such trends in literature. I even showed her excerpts from Zola's novels because they were related to some of her questions. I treated her interest in "the dark" with the utmost respect, as a legitimite interest, and I assumed an attitude of a mother who prefers to talk about it than to force her daughter to hide.

 

So, that's the first thing why I don't mind it - I want them to be free to be open with me.

 

The second reason is because I'm, frankly, tired of the pseudo-intellectual elitist attitude of "classics only". My field is Comp. Lit., I've met dozens upon dozens of people who despised anything which wasn't marked as a "classic", and who were totally not attuned with the culture around them. Our university professors, even at post-grad level, yet, were drawing comparisons not only with Dante and Goethe, but also with Agatha Christie and Stephen King, when necessary. Popular literature was not hushed as something one should not dirt one's hands with. Sure, we all knew where the emphasis was - but the fact we were dealing with "high culture" doesn't mean we need to be ignorant of the world and the cultural trends around us.

So I actually want my daughters to be exposed to that, and to find something they like there too. I don't want that to be the literary top they'll be exposed to - and I'll take care of that part. But... unless you consume a lot of trash too, you won't be able to recognize good literature when somebody removes the "classic" labels, right? ;)

 

Of course, for school we'll read Dante, Verga, Moliere, Hesse, Byron, Shakespeare, Tolstoy and similar "big names". We won't be reading HPs or various Twilights - but I'll be actually glad if they find something they like in the realm of the popular culture. So far, they've been reading both "high literature" and stuff like HP for their own joy, so I'd say we're doing a good job.

[Emma]

I don't censor what my children read. I do monitor it, in sense of being aware of what they read (and generally do in life), but I don't rule out the entire groups of works I deem "inappropriate". I may voice my opinion (and I have, a few times), but I don't actively forbid.

 

Both of my daughters (11 and 12 y.o.) have tried HP. The older one, well, it's not really her cup of tea I'd say; the younger one likes the series. They both also watched a couple of HP films, and the older one has read Twilight.

I see absolutely no problem in them being aware and in tune with the current popular culture around them, and the things their peers are into. As a matter of fact, I would feel it a slight handicap if they totally weren't into anything their peers were into, music-wise and books-wise. That doesn't mean that I encourage the "go with the crowd", but on the long run, I think more harm can be done from the "forbidden fruit" and the feeling they were forced to miss out on some things.

However, I say all that as somebody who is not burdened by a religious tradition which might require me to rule out some things for me to live in accordance with its teachings. I do understand why some parents wouldn't like their children to consume certain kind of materials. But the religious argument is simply not my preoccupation at this point (by the way, they also, both, read The Da Vinci Code).

 

Of course, those aren't the kind of works I'm going to offer. But if they find them out on their own, the best I can do as a mother is to let them know they can, and are encouraged to, talk to me even about that. To tell me what they liked, what they haven't, what impressed them, what disturbed them. I would hate to discover they were hiding books and their interests from me.

 

Last year my 12 y.o. came to me with a copy of Flowers of Evil and I thought I would have a heart attack. A beautiful, innocent child of that age reading Baudelaire?! Isn't Baudelaire the kind of reading they would postpone even in high school for the last year?

But then I thought, she's always been a precocious reader. So, she discovered Baudelaire. Okay. And she came straight to me. Excellent. That means that we've built trust and she feels no need to hide. Sure, I would have preferred her to read it older - but okay. She expressed her trust to me, now I have to trust her abilities to get it. So I talked to her - about Baudelaire, about Paris, about drugs and absynthe, about prostitution, about the "underground" life (she had also discovered Dostoevsky a little before Baudelaire in our home collection), about sex, about the way certain things are represented in art, about symbolism, about anything else she had a question on. I even showed her the examples of French poetry which announced such trends in literature. I even showed her excerpts from Zola's novels because they were related to some of her questions. I treated her interest in "the dark" with the utmost respect, as a legitimite interest, and I assumed an attitude of a mother who prefers to talk about it than to force her daughter to hide.

 

So, that's the first thing why I don't mind it - I want them to be free to be open with me.

 

The second reason is because I'm, frankly, tired of the pseudo-intellectual elitist attitude of "classics only". My field is Comp. Lit., I've met dozens upon dozens of people who despised anything which wasn't marked as a "classic", and who were totally not attuned with the culture around them. Our university professors, even at post-grad level, yet, were drawing comparisons not only with Dante and Goethe, but also with Agatha Christie and Stephen King, when necessary. Popular literature was not hushed as something one should not dirt one's hands with. Sure, we all knew where the emphasis was - but the fact we were dealing with "high culture" doesn't mean we need to be ignorant of the world and the cultural trends around us.

So I actually want my daughters to be exposed to that, and to find something they like there too. I don't want that to be the literary top they'll be exposed to - and I'll take care of that part. But... unless you consume a lot of trash too, you won't be able to recognize good literature when somebody removes the "classic" labels, right? ;)

 

Of course, for school we'll read Dante, Verga, Moliere, Hesse, Byron, Shakespeare, Tolstoy and similar "big names". We won't be reading HPs or various Twilights - but I'll be actually glad if they find something they like in the realm of the popular culture. So far, they've been reading both "high literature" and stuff like HP for their own joy, so I'd say we're doing a good job.

 

:iagree: You said it MUCH, MUCH better than I did. Thank you.

[Lizzie in Ma]

This is SO the kind of thread I sit here and bite my tongue til it's bloody.

I know it is a trap and I probably should just stay out of it, but I have a few hours free so, here goes.:D

 

I loved what Eliana had to say and I agree with her in most areas.

"Our family places a high value on quality literature - starting at the earliest ages.

 

...but I think they need less intense, less challenging works as well. ...just as I believe they need to blow bubbles, climb trees, and create imaginary worlds to play in. Because part of the gift of reading is to step into someone else's shoes... to see the world from another viewpoint, to gain a broader sense of what it is to be a human being... and that isn't all serious, hard work! It's an adventure... a joyous exploration... (how I love how you put that)

 

...our family library has more classics (children's and grown up) than not, but the lighter works are also a valuable part of our reading and learning experience.

 

[side note: I believe that fantasy has an important place in the reading experience. Someday I'l share Emma Bull's amazing essay "Why I Write Fantasy" which articulates my feelings on this subject so much more powerfully than I have ever managed to do.]

 

...and sometimes there's even a place for books which have no inherent value. Books which require nothing of the reader... and which give no insights... Sometimes those books have enough spark to them that the reader imagines depths for him/herself... other times they are pure entertainment... amusing enough for the moment, but substanceless. The cotton candy of a reading diet... If nothing else, these have helped my kids become discerning readers who can determine the literary merits of what they read and know how to choose a balanced literary diet.

 

That said... we censor our children's reading. Heavily. Yes, even for our just-turned-sixteen-year-old. ...and the more I read of modern YA fiction, the more committed I am to continuing to do so - (amen, there is some seriously scary stuff out there!) it is not always easy to tell from book reviews and descriptions or even from starting a book, whether it will head somewhere nighmarishly violent or explicitly sexual... and it's harder to get those images out of your head as a teen than it is as an adult.... even if you slam the book shut and throw it across the room as soon as you realize you're somewhere you don't want to be...

 

We censor for graphic violence, for explicit intimacy, and for books we feel have a tone and/or content that we don't believe our children should be spending time with."

 

Fantasy has always been my favorite genre and I truly believe that I am enriched when I spend time with friends in books like the Narnia series, LOTR, and the Belgariad. Or when I revisit Pern and Darkover and Hogwarts.

 

I love when one of our girls picks up one of our favorites for the first time, now they get a teeny glimpse of a part of me they would never otherwise know. And I am so pleased that Mr. Tumnus and Tom Bombadill and Dubledore and Silk and Aunt Pol are part and parcel of them in some small way too. And I love that they put on their capes and go outside and play in Narnia or Rivendell, Hobbiton or Diagon Alley.

(I think "proud", as in 'I am proud that she is not into vampires that do not exist. and Ghost.' is not the word I would use)

 

I love Harry Potter and we have seen all the movies and love them.

I enjoyed Twilight because it was fun, not because it is great prose. (side-note: Breaking Dawn was my favorite :D)

I think the girls are too young for Twilight, at 8 and 13, but we are reading aloud together through Harry's life.

I have read through all 7 at least 3 times and am so joyful to share them now with my girls and experience them through their eyes anew.

 

Both our girls read voraciously and I absolutely censor their books.

 

Here I will quote Teresa, who said it beautifully...

Corrie ten Boom said when she was a child her dad wouldn't let her carry his suitcase because it was too heavy for her at that time. The understanding was there that he was speaking of other things being too heavy for her also. There are things that are too heavy for young teens to handle.

 

 

Our read alouds are often considered classics but there are plenty of those I personally would not chose to read to my children. "Classic" doesn't always mean good, or even appropriate. Much like I steer well clear of a whole lot of NEA funded "art" exhibits. :lol:

 

I think that our girls do well choosing their own reading material.

And I hope that they learn from our reasoning when we choose what is appropriate for our family and why in both reading and viewing material.

 

PS: I love Buffy the Vampire Slayer too and I am not ashamed to admit it, nor that I can't wait until the girls are old enough to watch it with me. Everybody knows real vampires don't sparkle. :D

[Christy B]

PS: I love Buffy the Vampire Slayer too and I am not ashamed to admit it, nor that I can't wait until the girls are old enough to watch it with me. Everybody knows real vampires don't sparkle. :D

 

;) I couldn't agree more. A sparkly Edward isn't even worthy of comparison to Angel or Spike.

[funschooler5]

How is Judy Blume dark? We love Judy Blume. Fudge is funny.

 

:iagree:

 

Still waiting to hear how her books are dark. Yes, some of her books delve into serious issues (divorce, puberty, bullying, etc) but her writing has a lot of humor in it.

[My3Boys]

My dd's 12 & 13 have not read any of the Harry Potter books or seen Twighlight (actually, never heard of the movie). They are completely not interested in these kinds of things, and for that I am VERY thankful!!!

 

My boys were never interested in HP either, and I too was very thankful.

[Marylou]

Just do the brag thing and be done with it because that was the point of posting anyhow. I love honesty.

 

[David]

You may enjoy a book called "The Sorcerer's Companion". It is a fascinating book that discusses the mythology & folklore of many of the things mentioned in the HP books. The dc & I have totally enjoyed using this book alongside the HP books. Fascinating stuff.

Thanks. We'll take a look at it.

[chaik76]

:iagree: At 15, they need to begin making their choices. My 12 yr. old (now 13) dd read these and they really sparked her interest in reading again. She was a huge HP fan, but hadn't found anything to really enjoy just for fluff since until she found Twilight. I read them. They are FINE! They were clean, curse word free, innocent stories of what most teen girls feel is "true love." They don't have sex, they wait until marriage! This is the same dd who bought a book and brought it to me and said it made her too uncomfortable to continue reading (The Egypt Game.) I was so proud of her for making her choice, knowing why she made that choice, and bringing it to my attention. She has now been on a reading binge and I can't keep her in books. Some of it has been purely fluff, others have been great classics. She is learning to balance the two and appreciate each type for what it gives her. I don't want her to be afraid of any reading material. I want her to feel secure enough in her faith that she can filter books, movies, magazines, music through HER filter... not mine. I cannot force her to be a Christian. I can only show her the love, grace, and mercy of Jesus in our lives. If I don't let her begin making these choices now, then she will have a very difficult time when she goes off to college and is bombarded by much more serious choices than a vampire book. This is just my opinion, and not meant to step on anyone's toes, so please take it with a grain of salt.:001_smile:

Thanks for this post. I hope that this is the type of relationship I am able to develop with my children.

 

I don't censor what my children read. I do monitor it, in sense of being aware of what they read (and generally do in life), but I don't rule out the entire groups of works I deem "inappropriate". I may voice my opinion (and I have, a few times), but I don't actively forbid.

 

 

So I actually want my daughters to be exposed to that, and to find something they like there too. I don't want that to be the literary top they'll be exposed to - and I'll take care of that part. But... unless you consume a lot of trash too, you won't be able to recognize good literature when somebody removes the "classic" labels, right? ;)

 

<snip for brevity>

 

Of course, for school we'll read Dante, Verga, Moliere, Hesse, Byron, Shakespeare, Tolstoy and similar "big names". We won't be reading HPs or various Twilights - but I'll be actually glad if they find something they like in the realm of the popular culture. So far, they've been reading both "high literature" and stuff like HP for their own joy, so I'd say we're doing a good job.

Excellent post.

[bkpan]

I don't censor what my children read. I do monitor it, in sense of being aware of what they read (and generally do in life), but I don't rule out the entire groups of works I deem "inappropriate". I may voice my opinion (and I have, a few times), but I don't actively forbid.

 

Both of my daughters (11 and 12 y.o.) have tried HP. The older one, well, it's not really her cup of tea I'd say; the younger one likes the series. They both also watched a couple of HP films, and the older one has read Twilight.

I see absolutely no problem in them being aware and in tune with the current popular culture around them, and the things their peers are into. As a matter of fact, I would feel it a slight handicap if they totally weren't into anything their peers were into, music-wise and books-wise. That doesn't mean that I encourage the "go with the crowd", but on the long run, I think more harm can be done from the "forbidden fruit" and the feeling they were forced to miss out on some things.

However, I say all that as somebody who is not burdened by a religious tradition which might require me to rule out some things for me to live in accordance with its teachings. I do understand why some parents wouldn't like their children to consume certain kind of materials. But the religious argument is simply not my preoccupation at this point (by the way, they also, both, read The Da Vinci Code).

 

Of course, those aren't the kind of works I'm going to offer. But if they find them out on their own, the best I can do as a mother is to let them know they can, and are encouraged to, talk to me even about that. To tell me what they liked, what they haven't, what impressed them, what disturbed them. I would hate to discover they were hiding books and their interests from me.

 

Last year my 12 y.o. came to me with a copy of Flowers of Evil and I thought I would have a heart attack. A beautiful, innocent child of that age reading Baudelaire?! Isn't Baudelaire the kind of reading they would postpone even in high school for the last year?

But then I thought, she's always been a precocious reader. So, she discovered Baudelaire. Okay. And she came straight to me. Excellent. That means that we've built trust and she feels no need to hide. Sure, I would have preferred her to read it older - but okay. She expressed her trust to me, now I have to trust her abilities to get it. So I talked to her - about Baudelaire, about Paris, about drugs and absynthe, about prostitution, about the "underground" life (she had also discovered Dostoevsky a little before Baudelaire in our home collection), about sex, about the way certain things are represented in art, about symbolism, about anything else she had a question on. I even showed her the examples of French poetry which announced such trends in literature. I even showed her excerpts from Zola's novels because they were related to some of her questions. I treated her interest in "the dark" with the utmost respect, as a legitimite interest, and I assumed an attitude of a mother who prefers to talk about it than to force her daughter to hide.

 

So, that's the first thing why I don't mind it - I want them to be free to be open with me.

 

The second reason is because I'm, frankly, tired of the pseudo-intellectual elitist attitude of "classics only". My field is Comp. Lit., I've met dozens upon dozens of people who despised anything which wasn't marked as a "classic", and who were totally not attuned with the culture around them. Our university professors, even at post-grad level, yet, were drawing comparisons not only with Dante and Goethe, but also with Agatha Christie and Stephen King, when necessary. Popular literature was not hushed as something one should not dirt one's hands with. Sure, we all knew where the emphasis was - but the fact we were dealing with "high culture" doesn't mean we need to be ignorant of the world and the cultural trends around us.

So I actually want my daughters to be exposed to that, and to find something they like there too. I don't want that to be the literary top they'll be exposed to - and I'll take care of that part. But... unless you consume a lot of trash too, you won't be able to recognize good literature when somebody removes the "classic" labels, right? ;)

 

Of course, for school we'll read Dante, Verga, Moliere, Hesse, Byron, Shakespeare, Tolstoy and similar "big names". We won't be reading HPs or various Twilights - but I'll be actually glad if they find something they like in the realm of the popular culture. So far, they've been reading both "high literature" and stuff like HP for their own joy, so I'd say we're doing a good job.

Can I be home schooled at your house?:thumbup1:

[mom2abcd]

We have two teen girls here whose friends and cousins have read the books, but they haven't. Dd15 has heard many narratives and has no desire to read a single one. We have plenty of really good reading material.