Help me think through rock music

[Jean in Newcastle]

While I'm going to take all answers and filter it through my Christian worldview, all viewpoints are welcome.

 

I love music. We have a very eclectic mix of music playing everyday. The one hard and fast standard I have is that the lyrics must be compatible with our general values - esp. if the kids are going to listen to it.

 

Ds12 has been listening to Christian music on Pandora and has started to listen to harder and harder rock.

 

So far this is what I think about it:

 

1. The lyrics are more important than the music itself as far as the message goes.

 

2. If there is so much screaming going on that you can't even tell what the lyrics are, then it is off-limits. Question - is this a valid point, do you think?

 

3. Some music can make you feel up-tight and aggressive no matter what the lyrics say. Question - my instinct is to leave this up to my kid's discretion - am I setting myself up for some problems later if I do this?

 

4. It seems like the harder rock (at least the Christian kind) is designed to confront young people with "issues" to think about. It isn't the more contemplative or praise oriented music that I would choose to uplift me. Question: Does this have a unique purpose in the lives of young people to stir them to thought?

 

5. I want to help my tweens/teens to start to make choices on their own. I don't want to micro-manage but I do want to guide them away from musical choices which will affect them negatively too much (like the neo-Nazi music my jr. high students used to let me listen to).

[Jenny in Atl]

I'm just so thankful neither of my like heavy metal. I like some but in limited amounts. :lol:

 

No sure what to say... I guess, does the music influence your son in a negative way? I would talk to him about it. Even though I'm liberal in my musical tastes, I'm still snobby about what I let my girls listen too. I see nothing wrong in trying to expose/guide/point him towards music other than that which only moves the body (head banging and all).

[klmama]

I think your instincts are good, Jean. I would still discuss the negatives you see associated with the harder rock stuff. He should know what your concerns are. Ask him how he feels after listening to the hard rock Christian music. Does how he reacts to the music glorify God in any way, or does the music pull him away from godly behavior?

[dhudson]

I concern myself with the lyrics not the style although I request that it not be played where I have to listen to it all the time and that it not be too loud in their headphones for the sake of their ears. My oldest is very eclectic, he'll listen to classical (as he plays piano), jazz, praise music and a harder rock piece all in the same mp3 mix.

 

He has to have all music approved for content by either myself or my dh so we know what he's listening to and the only music file he has access to is on the computer in our room. Pretty safe.

[Lux Et Veritas Academy]

We are on that same wave length- our church put out this standard for youth which we follow with our kids

 

Music:

Those who have listened to music understand well the impact it can have on the mind and spirit. Positive, uplifting music can bring feelings of happiness and peace. The hymns of the Church are a key part of worship and invite the Spirit of the Lord. They can be especially helpful in controlling one's thoughts. In contrast, unwholesome, negative music can encourage inappropriate thoughts and behavior. As with other forms of media, Church members are encouraged to be careful in their choice of music.

[MamaT]

Just my thoughts:

 

1. The lyrics are more important than the music itself as far as the message goes.

Yes, I agree.

 

2. If there is so much screaming going on that you can't even tell what the lyrics are, then it is off-limits. Question - is this a valid point, do you think?

You would be surprised. My teens and 23yo know the words - I'm not sure how, but they do.

3. Some music can make you feel up-tight and aggressive no matter what the lyrics say. Question - my instinct is to leave this up to my kid's discretion - am I setting myself up for some problems later if I do this?

I have found that music that makes me feel this way, do not necessarily make them feel that way.

 

4. It seems like the harder rock (at least the Christian kind) is designed to confront young people with "issues" to think about. It isn't the more contemplative or praise oriented music that I would choose to uplift me. Question: Does this have a unique purpose in the lives of young people to stir them to thought?

Maybe so. I think as long as the lyrics follow our beliefs, the kind of music is their choice.

 

5. I want to help my tweens/teens to start to make choices on their own. I don't want to micro-manage but I do want to guide them away from musical choices which will affect them negatively too much (like the neo-Nazi music my jr. high students used to let me listen to).

My older kids have listened to harder rock Christian music than I would ever choose for myself for a long time. I have not seen it affect them negatively in any way. They are strong Christians. I did have these concerns when my oldest was a teen and started listening to it - so I do understand your questions.

 

[Sasharowan]

I find a bit of the music that I listened to as a teen I cannot take now, and that is not even considering the lyrics. I think with the hormones and everything teens go through, sometimes they need the harder stuff kind of like sensory seeking kids need to have things to touch and roll around on. Also as teens, they are starting to seek out "issues" to think deeper about, so as long as the message fits your family values, then let them listen. Think of the sixties songs preaching peace played alongside the ones encouraging war. Music often has a message.

[freeindeed]

I let my ds16--well, 17 tomorrow--listen to heavy metal, screamo Christian music, although seeing it typed out like that makes it seem like an oxymoron!:001_huh::tongue_smilie: I do read all of the lyrics, so I'm aware of exactly what is being spoken about in these songs. While I'd prefer that he listen to Casting Crowns, Mercy Me, or Steven Curtis Chapman, it's just not his style. Also, he doesn't seem negatively affected by the music he listens to. If I began to notice that happening, then I'd have a different opinion. If it's truly Christian, then I don't have a problem with it, no matter how loud it is.

 

I also should add that my ds plays electric guitar for our praise team at church. On those days, he does play the likes of Casting Crowns, Mercy Me, Steven Curtis Chapman, and beautiful old hymns like Amazing Grace & Are You Washed in the Blood.:D

[elegantlion]

I listen to hard Christian Rock. I'm a child of the 80s and grew up listening to British new wave and still listen to some of that.

 

If they have the CD grab the insert and most of the time lyrics are listed. I've found most of the ones I've listened to are sold out Christians who just like heavy music. Check out the websites of these bands, see if their testimonies are listed. you can also check out air1.com for info on songs and bands.

 

Superchick is one of my favorites and their lyrics are empowering to me, I wish a band like them had been around when I was a kid. I often find myself singing lyrics, while not listening to the music, and it's always words of upliftment or praise.

 

I totally feel there is a difference between what should be played at church, even contemporary music, and what is allowable at home.

[HollyDay]

Content is really important.

 

For example, Skillet has a song about suicide. That topic might not be appropriate for a dc who is not ready to take on that topic. That same album has another, Rebirth, that would be fine. Alot of the harder rock music geared towards teens contain subject matter that is not "not appropriate", but is the dc mature enough to understand the message kwim?

 

Kutless has a wonderful praise and worship album, but the style is heavy. I love it, but my gf said the music is too powerful and makes her uncomfortable - "edgy" feeling.

 

So I would suggest that consideration of individual tolerance to style and maturity are factors.

 

For what it is worth, I cannot stand country music that has that "twang" to it. Any of that style music just "sets my teeth on edge" and I don't like it. Sort of like my gf doesnt like power rock style. We each have limits on what we like musically. Lyrics are not the issue here, but the music itself.

[Spy Car]

I'd tend to think many of the negative effects on mood, feelings of alienation and aggression that come with heavy-metal would carry over despite the lyrics.

 

This style of music has a visceral and a brain-limiting (if not brain-damaging :tongue_smilie:) effect. I would not be happy.

 

Bill (whose mother didn't like the music he listened to either :D)

Edited July 1, 2009 by Spy Car

[Leanna Tomlinson]

I'd tend to think many of the negative effects on mood, feelings alienation and aggression that come with heavy-metal would carry over despite the lyrics.

 

This style of music has a visceral and a brain-limiting (if not brain-damaging :tongue_smilie:) effect. I would not be happy.

 

 

 

Andrew Pudewa sells a CD in which he explores this topic at length. He quotes several research studies that prove this point.

 

http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/index.php?q=mus

 

~Leanna

[Jean in Newcastle]

You know, my brother reminded me that I listened to Uriah Heep, Black Sabbath etc. growing up (yes, I'm dating myself here). I do wish my mother had paid more attention to the lyrics. Now that I'm older, I really don't like a lot of the music I liked when I was young.

[Mad Jenny Flint]

There is often an assumption that musical choice creates a certain mood, mindset, thought pattern. To some extent, this may be true. However, our choices are often driven by our moods, mindset, and thought pattern. Music does not, in my opinion, turn out a certain kind of person.

 

My son is one of the more level-headed, responsible, sweet, artsy, smart, and just plain kind people I have ever met. He listens to nearly all kinds of music. His main exposure as a younger child has been to bluegrass (his father is a musician, mainly of this genre), blues, classical, and older rock/soft(ish) rock. He played mandolin as a young child and has moved on to electric guitar. He loves old metal bands like Black Sabbath and some of the newer bands like Children of Bodom. He loves learning to play the complex guitar patterns in this music, and he is really very good at it.

 

We are very liberal about what we allow in lyrics- I draw the line at aggressive lyrics and particularly sexually aggressive lyrics. Violence in lyrics is different than aggression, in my opinion. Songs that expose violence are different than songs that perpetuate or condone violence (aggressive). We talk about the music my son chooses and talk about what he should watch for. He looks up the lyrics for songs that are difficult to understand by listening and uses these guidelines to make a choice.

 

We talk about everything. We guide. We allow our children to make age-appropriate choices.

[Spy Car]

There is often an assumption that musical choice creates a certain mood, mindset, thought pattern. To some extent, this may be true. However, our choices are often driven by our moods, mindset, and thought pattern. Music does not, in my opinion, turn out a certain kind of person.

 

My son is one of the more level-headed, responsible, sweet, artsy, smart, and just plain kind people I have ever met. He listens to nearly all kinds of music. His main exposure as a younger child has been to bluegrass (his father is a musician, mainly of this genre), blues, classical, and older rock/soft(ish) rock. He played mandolin as a young child and has moved on to electric guitar. He loves old metal bands like Black Sabbath and some of the newer bands like Children of Bodom. He loves learning to play the complex guitar patterns in this music, and he is really very good at it.

 

We are very liberal about what we allow in lyrics- I draw the line at aggressive lyrics and particularly sexually aggressive lyrics. Violence in lyrics is different than aggression, in my opinion. Songs that expose violence are different than songs that perpetuate or condone violence (aggressive). We talk about the music my son chooses and talk about what he should watch for. He looks up the lyrics for songs that are difficult to understand by listening and uses these guidelines to make a choice.

 

We talk about everything. We guide. We allow our children to make age-appropriate choices.

 

You are talking about a mind built on bluegrass and classical music. These are very complex forms. Sure a kid like that could listen to some early Black Sabbath with little (or no harm done). And have it be just another fun flavor of music. And when he discovers John Coltrane or the archive of Grateful Dead shows from the seventies he'll appreciate the complexity and human brilliance in that too.

 

I just don't think a steady diet of heavy metal is a positive. I really don't.

 

Bill

[Dirtroad]

I think you have given this great thought. I have not been in your shoes lately.

 

My one opinion about letting them chose & some music makes people anxious.... watch the results! If they select something... see how it is changing the mood or attitude. Same old... is should be okay. If things aren't.... yank the plug!

 

I agree on screaming.... it is pointless and bad for the ears anyway.

 

I think SpyCar is correct too. It is not really a good diet of music. IMHO, one of the lowest common denominator. You may want to let them experiment a little.... but (USE SCHOOL if needed) to introduce really rich music styles & heritage (bluegrass, classical, blues, folk, etc).

[Michelle in AL]

Hmm, I'm going to go against the grain a little. I've seen Skillet in concert with my kids. I do not like hard rock all that much, but being at that concert opened my eyes to how they actually really reach a LOT of kids. Kids that may not be reached through other genres, kids that are dealing with real serious issues that they address in their music. This could possibly be a way into Christianity for some kids.

 

My dd who is one of the strongest, most insightful Christians I know (even though she is terribly young), is a great musician. She's actually against labeling Christian Contemporary music, "Christian" since it may prohibit non-Christians from being exposed to it. She thinks the music is better served in the mainstream where it can reach more people instead of keeping it in a box.

 

I think teens think through tough issues such as drugs, suicide etc a lot more than we realize and music that discusses these issues can actually open up thought processes that they can use when they actually confront that situation.

[CookieMonster]

I think your instincts are good, Jean. I would still discuss the negatives you see associated with the harder rock stuff. He should know what your concerns are. Ask him how he feels after listening to the hard rock Christian music. Does how he reacts to the music glorify God in any way, or does the music pull him away from godly behavior?

 

:iagree:

[Imprimis]

First of all, we are a music-loving family; my daughters take piano, my son takes guitar, and we all enjoy listening to music. That said, it became a hot topic in our home about six months ago, when my dd started discovering genres I never even knew existed.

 

It began when she asked me to listen to a band called "The Devil Wears Prada," a Christian metalcore (sometimes called screamo) band. My first reaction was :eek:. It was pure cacophony to me. VERY heavy metal sound, mostly unintelligible lyrics because they SCREAM them, rather than sing them.

 

I could not fathom how my dd, who loves learning waltzes on the piano, and was exposed to classical music at a young age, could even stand to listen to this..........stuff.

 

Well, after days (weeks?) of wondering where I went wrong, I realized that no matter how much U2 I made her listen to ;), she was going to develop her own taste in music.

 

I looked at our specific circumstances: Dd is a happy kid, with no disciplinary problems. She's level-headed, mature for her age, and has exhibited wise decision-making skills.

 

So, with stipulations, I chose to allow her to listen to what she likes. I don't allow lyrics that I feel are violent or vulgar, and I encourage her to listen to a variety of genres.

 

I hope you are able to come to a decision that works for your family!

Edited July 2, 2009 by Imprimis

[shinyhappypeople]

I don't care for metal, but my husband played in a death metal band for years. He was and remains a strong Christian, wrote lyrics about how evil NEVER wins and had non-Christian friends from the scene calling him for advice and prayer. Very cool :) Meanwhile, church groups picketed their shows. :rolleyes:

 

The music itself (when done well) is incredibly complex, far more so than mainstream pop or country (you know, the kind of stuff *I* like!). Many of these musicians are profoundly gifted artists.

 

I think the style is cathartic and channels aggression that already exists within us. But, then you get the people that eat, breathe and live this music. THAT is where problems come in, IMO. If this were one of my kids, i'd let them listen to metal IN MODERATION.

 

Oh, and fwiw, my sweet, mellow, loving DH finds heavy metal relaxing. It doesn't make him mean or aggressive. Strange but true...

[Michelle in AL]

The music itself (when done well) is incredibly complex, far more so than mainstream pop or country (you know, the kind of stuff *I* like!). Many of these musicians are profoundly gifted artists.

 

Have to agree with this statement. Skillet has symphonic portions in some of their songs that are beautiful (sorry to keep using them as an example, I don't listen to much hard rock). I love how they can combine different styles in one song. It really show how you can combine vastly different types of music.

[aprilinparis]

I'd just like to 'second' the resource from Andrew Pudewa: The Profound Effects of Music on Life (IEW). It is thought-provoking, especially when given the results of numerous scientific experiments. I personally like multiple styles of music, but I feel a little better informed about my choices & their effects on me. Most types of music can be addicting, whether they are 'good for you' or not. I'm listening to this seminar again next week with my kids, and plan on some discussion afterwards. We generally expect that what is played in our home falls in line with our beliefs (Christian). If we calls ourselves Christian, then we are followers of Christ, and would not want to grieve Him with our choices. That said, we've been pretty lenient on styles. But this resource has got me thinking... Check it out :)

[Scott]

I find this fascinating. I have done much study into this subject and I have come to the conclusion that rock should not be listened to by Christians. Whether it is "Christian" rock or not. Rock music is not music that Jesus would listen too. I like rock music but I choose not to listen to it. I don't have room here to state my reasons but if you want to know what made me come to that conclusion please go to, www.wix.com/scottlittlefield17/scotts-website and click on the "Papers" button on the lower right hand side of the screen. It will bring you to it. Or hit the "Comments Questions" button and ask me to email it to you.

 

P.S. The site is new so it is not finished but you will be able to get to the above mentioned paper.

[Jenny in Atl]

I find this fascinating. I have done much study into this subject and I have come to the conclusion that rock should not be listened to by Christians. Whether it is "Christian" rock or not. Rock music is not music that Jesus would listen too. I like rock music but I choose not to listen to it. I don't have room here to state my reasons but if you want to know what made me come to that conclusion please go to, www.wix.com/scottlittlefield17/scotts-website and click on the "Papers" button on the lower right hand side of the screen. It will bring you to it. Or hit the "Comments Questions" button and ask me to email it to you.

 

P.S. The site is new so it is not finished but you will be able to get to the above mentioned paper.

 

I have to ask, what music would Jesus listen to? I would think Sephardic? :D

[CLHCO]

I third Pudewa's talk. There is certainly research that the style of music matters, lyrics or not.

 

People think the Ancient Greek beliefs on the power of music to dramatically change the type of person you were was nothing but a part of their superstitious belief, but there is a whole science out there on music therapy that is showing otherwise. It does alter body chemistry and brain waves. Though I don't necessarily feel any of it is inappropriate in moderation, I think parents and individuals owe it to themselves to at least *look* at the possible ramifications of music before allowing it to bombard their ears excessively. Teenagers have a way of doing things excessively and I have always put limits to how much of certain styles of music my kids listen to, just as I put limits to how much computer time or other activities that are perhaps harmless in moderation but destructive when taken to childish extremes.

[Scott]

I'll admit I have not worked through that totally. I mentioned that in my paper. I will listen to some "soft pop" and some country as long as the lyrics are clean. But i am convinced that rock is not right. That would include: hip-hop, rap, metal, and others that genra's that are like that. He of course he would have listened to jewish music. We need to think of how he would act if he lived today.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Scott

[Jenny in Atl]

I'll admit I have not worked through that totally. I mentioned that in my paper. I will listen to some "soft pop" and some country as long as the lyrics are clean. But i am convinced that rock is not right. That would include: hip-hop, rap, metal, and others that genra's that are like that. He of course he would have listened to jewish music. We need to think of how he would act if he lived today.

 

I would guess Jazz.. smart & complex.

[Scott]

Maybe I'm thickheaded but i don't understand what you meant by "smart and complex". Personally i hate jazz. Just a personal preference. Rock music defies the very nature of God.

[Ibbygirl]

I'll admit I have not worked through that totally. I mentioned that in my paper. I will listen to some "soft pop" and some country as long as the lyrics are clean. But i am convinced that rock is not right. That would include: hip-hop, rap, metal, and others that genra's that are like that. He of course he would have listened to jewish music. We need to think of how he would act if he lived today.

 

 

But if you believe that God is omnipresent then He does listen to rock and a lot of other stuff too. :p ;)

[mrsrevmeg]

I'd tend to think many of the negative effects on mood, feelings of alienation and aggression that come with heavy-metal would carry over despite the lyrics.

 

This style of music has a visceral and a brain-limiting (if not brain-damaging :tongue_smilie:) effect. I would not be happy.

 

Bill (whose mother didn't like the music he listened to either :D)

 

I tend to agree. I am a youth pastor's wife and I have seen how this music makes the kids act at concerts and such. There are certain bands that my husband and I will not take our youth group to because they do not promote Godly behavior. We went to a concert recently to see Building 429 and almost left before they came on stage because the people performing before them (After Edmond and Kimber Rising) were either dancing seductively and moaning, or encouraging the kids to act like morons jumping around headbanging. After Edmond's music was so loud you could not understand what was being said, so someone on the outside looking would not have even known it was supposed to be a "Christian" concert.

[Scott]

Sorry to say but what a lame argument. Does that mean that God also watches and approves of X-rated movies? I think not. What i meant by that comment was that if Jesus were on earth as he was 2000 years ago he would not volentarly listen to rock music. I listen to it all the time too, the neighbors have it blaring, ect. But I don't listen to it willingly.

[Ibbygirl]

Sorry to say but what a lame argument. Does that mean that God also watches and approves of X-rated movies? I think not. What i meant by that comment was that if Jesus were on earth as he was 2000 years ago he would not volentarly listen to rock music. I listen to it all the time too, the neighbors have it blaring, ect. But I don't listen to it willingly.

 

 

What I said was meant to be tongue in cheek hence the smilies. I in no way was intending to start and argument with anyone. If you knew me better you'd know that I'm somewhat of a jokster, but whatever. Sorry what I said offended you so much. Peace.

[CLHCO]

I would guess Jazz.. smart & complex.

 

Fusion type jazz probably wouldn't. No place to rest a melody loving brain.

 

I'm really hoping bluegrass would make the cut. :thumbup:

[Scott]

I was not offended at all but i did not realize you were joking. I have a fiery type personality and it did raise my hackles a little to hear such stupid arguments. I have heard stuff like you said and they were completely serious. So sorry!!!

[Ibbygirl]

I was not offended at all but i did not realize you were joking. I have a fiery type personality and it did raise my hackles a little to hear such stupid arguments. I have heard stuff like you said and they were completely serious. So sorry!!!

 

Smilies are our friends. ;) :p hehe No worries Scott. I ain't mad atcha. :p

[Scott]

Ya I love bluegrass to (as long as the lyrics are clean). I just did not list every single genre that i would listen to.

[Jenny in Atl]

Maybe I'm thickheaded but i don't understand what you meant by "smart and complex". Personally i hate jazz. Just a personal preference. Rock music defies the very nature of God.

 

The music... how old are you?

[Scott]

Why do you want to know?

[Scott]

The music... how old are you?

Why do you want to know?

[stephanie]

Here we go again!!!!!

[6packofun]

I agree. While we allow some rock groups/artists who occasionally scream in their music, if they scream in *every* song and/or sound ANGRY, it's not appropriate for us. As a Christian, angry screaming just seems to evoke discontent--at the least--or create anger when we should desire self-control.

 

That said...LOL...we definitely enjoy going to Christian music festivals where the kids jump up and down and really rock out. The way kids respond to music physically like that today is better, IMO, than the way young women screamed and started bawling their fool heads when they saw Elvis, the Beatles or, more recently, Michael Jackson. :001_huh:

 

It's interesting what some folks consider hard rock, too. Hehe :tongue_smilie:

[Scott]

I agree. While we allow some rock groups/artists who occasionally scream in their music, if they scream in *every* song and/or sound ANGRY, it's not appropriate for us. As a Christian, angry screaming just seems to evoke discontent--at the least--or create anger when we should desire self-control.

 

That said...LOL...we definitely enjoy going to Christian music festivals where the kids jump up and down and really rock out. The way kids respond to music physically like that today is better, IMO, than the way young women screamed and started bawling their fool heads when they saw Elvis, the Beatles or, more recently, Michael Jackson. :001_huh:

 

It's interesting what some folks consider hard rock, too. Hehe :tongue_smilie:

 

What do you consider hard rock?

[MOM24WONDERS]

We are a very, very musical family - I sing on the worship team at church. So, music is a very big part of our lives. We have praise and worship music on almost everyday. Our favorites are Casting Crowns, Shane and Shane, Connersvine, Matt Redman, etc.

 

My son does like some of the heavier music - Kutless, Skillet - but I can't stand it. He is allowed to listen to it within reason. However, we only allow it because it doesn't consume him - he is just as likely to be listening to Third Day or Jeremy Camp as he is one of the other, heavier groups.

 

There are some we've just said no to - like Demon Hunter..that's just over the top, to me.

 

We do only listen to Christian music in our home, too....nothing secular is even allowed. Music was created as a form of worship to God, if it's not worshipping him, then I don't see much point in it.

[helena]

As our kids get older my husband and I will have a lot to think about on this subject. We both come from heavy music backgrounds. My kids know Jacques Brel, Nico, The Clash, Bach, Mississippi John Hurt and so on. My bedroom wall is full of vinyl. My husband works in the music industry. That's the killer I guess. We have no illusions of what the music scene is all about. Especially the rock scene. It is so foul. We will in no way encourage or promote our kids going into that line of work either as an artist or the business side.

 

Even the Christian rock circuit has its nasty side. My husband has met some of these bands I see listed here, one of his oldest friends manages Christian hardcore bands, between their stories alone ...things can get pretty decadent. Obviously there are a lot of decent people making decent music. And kids aren't going to mess up their lives just because they listen to harder music. Your kids should be careful about how much they invest in what they think are other peoples values. Christian rock bands have all the same temptations that other rock bands have. And many lack the qualities/maturity it takes to resist them.

 

I think it's fine for especially boys to rock out and jump around. I can see all of my guy friends going nuts at a Fear show, having the time of their lives, getting bashed up, laughing, feeling so passionate about everything.

All those kids are old now, they grew up to be fathers, professionals, priests, artists, whatever. They had all this energy and aggression, their parents didn't provide an outlet so they created it for themselves. I don't have sons so I really don't know, but it seems some boys need that release, in some way.

 

Does anyone remember P.O.P Parents of punkers?

[OnTheBrink]

Andrew Pudewa sells a CD in which he explores this topic at length. He quotes several research studies that prove this point.

 

http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/index.php?q=mus

 

~Leanna

 

I attended a seminar he did on this topic; very interesting!