You want to know WHY I am overprotective?

[Greta]

Do your kids ever get in a car? 73,000 children died in car accidents in this country between 2000 and 2005. 250 died from stranger abductions. That's a ratio of 292 car deaths for every 1 stranger abduction.

 

If you're really concerned about your kids, you should be 292 times as determined that your children never climb into a car, ever.

 

Well I for one hear what you're saying. My husband lost his mother to a car accident, so he is "overprotective" of me and my daughter in this way, and doesn't apologize for it! I know a LOT more people who have lost loved ones to car accidents than to kidnappings. In fact, I don't personally know anyone who has lost a loved one to a kidnapping. But I know several people who have died or had loved ones who died in car accidents.

 

But the thing is, people take cars and the ability to get from point A to point B whenever they feel like it very much for granted. They buckle up, sure. But do they stop to question if the trip is really reasonable? We curtail our driving as much as reasonably possible. We choose activities close to home, and combine trips to make them count. We avoid driving during the busiest times of the day as much as possible. To me, this things don't seem that unreasonable, and they save us gas money too. I think that some of my friends think I am a little weird because I will not drive all the way to the other side of the city to take my dd to a certain swimming pool, when there is a perfectly good swimming pool right here in our neighborhood that we can walk to! But that's fine. I'm weird. So be it. :001_smile:

 

Incidentally, I also do not let my daughter play unsupervised in our neighborhood like most of the other parents here do. So yes, I am overprotective in many ways! :D

[Melinda in VT]

well that sounds like a perfect reason to disband the public school system.

 

In fact, if we were to research the percentage of un-independent adults either receiving welfare or in jail, how many would be products of the public school system vs a private option?

 

:confused:

 

I said nothing of schooling choice. Not what I was thinking about at all. I don't think home schooled kids are inherently more sheltered or less independent than their public schooled peers. Kids can go from home to bus to school to bus to home without ever really being on their own.

 

I was simply wondering (haven't reached a conclusion on this myself) if our tendency to give our kids less free reign in the world while they are growing up is a contributing factor to some of them being apparently reluctant to grow up.

 

When I listen to my parents' generation talk (and to a lesser extent, my own) there was a lot more of kids roaming around on the weekends or in the summers. Sort of a "be home by dinner but I don't need to know exactly where you'll be in the meantime" attitude. I think there is risk and also benefit in that. Where exactly to draw the line is not always clear to me, and I don't think those who draw it in a different place (either more or less lenient) are necessarily doing the wrong thing just because it's not what I would do.

[Murphy101]

Well call me crazy, but I think there's a big difference between cars and rape/murder/abduction. one is a sad and tragic death. the other is a horrific, unthinkable, unhuman disgusting sick and abdominable death.

 

My kids get hurt all the time. They fall off bikes (they don't wear helmets, altho we have them *gasp*), they jump off bunkbeds and trees, they play war with sticks (it's all fun until you poke an eye out! LOL), they get burnt learning to cook, they trip down the stairs, get scratched playing with the cat...

 

but you know what?

 

I would be devastated if my child died in a car wreck. you bet.

 

But that is nothing to how I'd feel if they were abducted, beaten and raped.

 

I imagine any man feels the same about his wife and kids.

 

My dh would be devasted if I died in a car wreck.

 

But to know that someone kidnapped me, beat me, and raped and brutally murdered me? Or god forbid his baby girls?

 

that would probably kill him.

 

I don't think anyone here is saying to protect kids from everything in the big bad world.

 

Just doing our best to protect them from the WORST in the big bad world.

[Spy Car]

I agree that this sort of fate is too horrific to imagine. But if we're honest, it's our own fear that causes us to be overprotective, not the actual risk, which is vanishingly small. If it's all about protecting your child, none of us would ever let our child get in a car.

 

I think a more important issue is that we can't let our fears poison childhood. There's a lot of talk on this board about teaching our children to be mature, confident adults. Cloistering them from the world isn't going to further this goal.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't teach them caution, but sooner or later they're going to be on their own, regardless of what we do. What is important is to teach them about the dangers, then gradually, in an age-appropriate way, give them their independence.

 

:iagree:

 

If you want to protect your children don't observe "National Donut Day". Don't feed them French fries. Stay off the cell phone when you're driving.

 

That will protect their health.

 

Cloistering them comes at a huge cost to their confidence and ability to interact in the world. A child dying is a tragedy. But reacting to the (extremely) rare killing in a fashion that limits life has it's own costs.

 

Bill

[Peek a Boo]

:confused:

 

I said nothing of schooling choice. Not what I was thinking about at all. I don't think home schooled kids are inherently more sheltered or less independent than their public schooled peers. Kids can go from home to bus to school to bus to home without ever really being on their own.

 

I was simply wondering (haven't reached a conclusion on this myself) if our tendency to give our kids less free reign in the world while they are growing up is a contributing factor to some of them being apparently reluctant to grow up.

 

When I listen to my parents' generation talk (and to a lesser extent, my own) there was a lot more of kids roaming around on the weekends or in the summers. Sort of a "be home by dinner but I don't need to know exactly where you'll be in the meantime" attitude. I think there is risk and also benefit in that. Where exactly to draw the line is not always clear to me, and I don't think those who draw it in a different place (either more or less lenient) are necessarily doing the wrong thing just because it's not what I would do.

 

except that the public schools inherently DO "not let them out alone in the world as they are growing up."

 

schooling choices aside, the public school system does exactly that which you question, even if you hadn't considered that angle. Homeschooling might, but not by default.

 

This isn't a matter of whether someone was "wrong" or not, but simply a matter of assessing what they did and why it failed to keep a child safe. These assessments are what lead to better child safety seats, driving laws, advisements on how to avoid kidnappings, and so on.

 

Being aware of how to minimize risks is prudent.

Rational fear based on facts is a good thing to have.

We have quite a few facts to guide us in our parenting.

[CookieMonster]

Your child is therefore 200 times more likely to die from an injury and 20 times more likely to die drowning than to be kidnapped and murdered by a stranger. If you're going to be overprotective of your child, be much more cautious about motor travel, street crossings, unwatched pools and ponds, hiking, bike riding, etc.

 

Personally I think this comparison is bogus.

 

There are exponentially more injuries because there are exponentially more activites that children do that lead to those injuries. There are exponentially more car accident deaths for children because there are exponentially more children riding around in cars than there are children playing unsupervised near a pervert.

 

1% of 100 is less than 1% of 1,000,000.

 

And since supervision is the easy, straightforward way to prevent an abduction, why rail against it?

 

I do understand the sentiment expressed by several that we should not live in fear. Totally. But, I also firmly believe that June Cleaver wouldn't allow Beaver out unsupervised nowadays. At least not during the early episodes.

[Peek a Boo]

:iagree:

 

If you want to protect your children don't observe "National Donut Day". Don't feed them French fries. That will protect their health.

 

Cloistering them comes at a huge cost to their confidence and ability to interact in the world. A child dying is a tragedy. But reacting to the (extremely) rare killing in a fashion that limits life has it's own costs.

 

Bill

 

except that there are plenty of healthy children that eat donuts and french fries.

Forget the rare killing: Being molested and/or constantly harassed/bullied does its* fair share of "limiting life."

 

*Bill! :-)

 

i agree that cloistering them does nothing. Training does quite a bit tho.

[Melinda in VT]

except that the public schools inherently DO "not let them out alone in the world as they are growing up."

 

Neither does church. Should we get rid of church?:D

 

Saying that kids should be allowed some freedom to be on their own in the world does not mean that there is never a time for them to be supervised.

[Kelli in TN]

Do your kids ever get in a car? 73,000 children died in car accidents in this country between 2000 and 2005. 250 died from stranger abductions. That's a ratio of 292 car deaths for every 1 stranger abduction.

 

If you're really concerned about your kids, you should be 292 times as determined that your children never climb into a car, ever.

 

I'm struggling to put this gently, but to say that you're not interested in statistics, but you are interested in your kids is saying that you are determining risks based on emotions, not facts.

 

 

 

I agree with that 100%.

 

That's why we wear seatbelts and pay attention to car ratings and I practice defensive driving.

 

I can't safeguard them from every danger, but I want to know that I have done all that is within my power to do. I don't judge any other parent for their parenting style and I truly do not appreciate the very thinly veiled put down in your response to me. My response was to the OP only.

[Kelli in TN]

:iagree:

 

If you want to protect your children don't observe "National Donut Day". Don't feed them French fries. Stay off the cell phone when you're driving.

 

That will protect their health.

 

Cloistering them comes at a huge cost to their confidence and ability to interact in the world. A child dying is a tragedy. But reacting to the (extremely) rare killing in a fashion that limits life has it's own costs.

 

Bill

 

 

Really, I seriously doubt that my adult children felt like their lives were all that limited. And they are independent young adults today.

 

I have enough parenting mistakes to fill 100 books, but being outside with them while they played in our cove is not one of them.

[Peek a Boo]

Neither does church. Should we get rid of church?:D

 

Saying that kids should be allowed some freedom to be on their own in the world does not mean that there is never a time for them to be supervised.

 

one or two hours once a week surrounded by a diverse amount of people [and possible newcomers] as compared to 6-8 hours a day 5 days a week w/ the same crowd day after day? how do you compare THAT?

 

Saying that children need to be taught and supervised does not mean they are "cloistered," "isolated," never given time for them to be independent, or making them afraid to move out into the world as adults.

[Firefly]

:iagree:

 

If you want to protect your children don't observe "National Donut Day". Don't feed them French fries. Stay off the cell phone when you're driving.

 

That will protect their health.

 

I do all these things. However, I do not put protecting their health on the same level as protecting them from a child rapist/murderer. While heartbreaking and tragic, one of my children dying of a heart attack or while in a terrible car accident to me is not the same as them dying at the hands of a child rapist/murderer. I believe this point has been made many times already...?

 

Cloistering them comes at a huge cost to their confidence and ability to interact in the world. A child dying is a tragedy. But reacting to the (extremely) rare killing in a fashion that limits life has it's own costs.

We all cloister in different ways-- yours (and mine) may be to protect them from frankenfood. Another of mine is to keep them from riding their bikes alone until I feel they are ready. I'd rather take the risk of them getting in a car than risking the rarity of them being abducted by a pedophile, despite there being a greater risk with the car ride. For me, it's about the CAUSE of death, not the actual death itself.

[Ibbygirl]

I think as parents we do whatever we can to protect our children and we take precautions for their safety. We use seatbelts and practive defensive driving, do not talk on cell phones or engage in other distracting behaviors while driving in order to be safe. I see no difference in supervising a child when they are outside playing. It is a protective measure. My heart breaks for this poor family, but I think I can say with confidence that had the mother been sitting right there while the child was playing that that abductor would not have taken her. :(

[swellmomma]

Based on most of the responses here I am not being a good mother. My kids play outside all the time without me. My older 2 have a habit of running off, ds has been a runner since he learned to walk, so my only stipulation is they stay together. I am less worried about ds than I am about dd, mostly because he has been doing this for years and knows his way around most of the blocks of this area, who the block parents are etc.

 

DS5 is outside for most of everyday now that it is nice out. I can not be out with him at all times because I have to put the baby down for naps, or get a meal cooked etc. So he plays outside without me. That said he is seldom alone. He and the little girl next door play together all the time, her mom and I take turns popping out and checking on them. But there is times when neither of us is out there. Often the boy next door pops out too or his friends are all showing up so if there is time when there is not another adult out (or teen) it is for like 5-10 minutes maybe 1-2 times a day. Sure something could happen during that time, but we feel the risk is small.

 

As for riding bikes, My kids keep them at grandma's and they all ride around the block together. It is norm here for kids to ride bikes on the sidewalks until they are teens so that is what the kids do. At home they ride their scooters etc a shorter distance, as going around the block here in the city has a different meaning than in the suberbs where grandma lives. They have a set distance they can go, but part of that distance is out of my sight.

 

They have more to worry about with the psycho lady down the block making her paranoid comments(apparently I control the police now as I run a bike stealing operation that stole her sons bike, who knew), or from the bullies that do what they do whether an adult is present or not than they do from some per out there who might kidnap them.

 

Last night I had a meeting across the street with the police and the family of my son's 2 bullies. I left my 5 and 9 year old home alone, with instructions to watch their movie or go visit the neighbor. The police seemed to think this was fine, other more over protective parents would not. Since I was busy with my meeting I did not even have 1 ear open to what was going on at home, whereas if I have gone inside to tend to something I keep an ear open to hear what is happening outside.

 

Each family has to evaluate the risks of anything, blaming the mom isn't going to help. YEsterday afternoon, while all the kids were out the neighbors dogs escaped. The owner of the dogs(and friend of mine) ran to gather them, with my permission and my other neighbor's permision to her dd, the kids ran to help gather them, this is something they have done before without incident. However, in the 5 minutes it took to collect them, dd got nipped by the big dog, which caused her to drop the dog she was holding, at the same moment neighbor girl fell and screamed, so as dropped dog hit the ground he was further scared by the scream and bit the girl that fell. So even with an adult standing right there, things happen. She felt terribly guilty, but it wasn't her fault, she couldn't control the actions of the moment with the dogs any more than the mother of that little girl could control the actions of the freak that took her daughter. In our case both my dd and girl next door are find, the little girl had 3 puncture marks, my dd's nip never broke skin just left a teeth shaped bruise. Unfortunately for that little girl's family the ending was not to happy.

 

From the sounds of it, the person they are seeking is someone the family knows, so this wasn't some stranger abduction, this could have happened at anytime. I don't know the stats, but aren't most cases of child abduction/murder commited by those who know the family, not by strangers at all? Even if someone has a criminal record, I can see being friends with them depending on what the crime was they were charged with, and how honest they were about their record. I don't think most with a past record tend to be forthright with that, so this mother may not have even known that this person had one.

 

The whole situation is tragic but I don't think putting the blame on the mother is helpful. I am sure she is blaming herself enough for everyone. I also feel it is taking that blame off of the shoulders of the one who actually commited this crime when we are expressing outrage at the mother rather than him. It is imo no different than telling the perp it is okay he did this because the mother didn't do her job. I know that is not what people are intending but I feel that is the message that is put across.

[BikeBookBread]

My husband is in the law-enforcement arm of the military. Once a month or so he forwards home an official military report of an attempted child abduction (usually) in broad daylight here locally in Almost Mexico, AZ; every instance I have seen has occurred in a "respectable" neighborhood, one neighborhood in particular has been mentioned several times -- a nice area with nice restaurants, nice shopping, nice doctors offices, nice grocery stores, the better schools, nice nice nice. Not where you would "think" it would happen. Most often the child is on a bike, or walking, always unaccompanied, by the side of the well-traveled street. You can't tell me that the perp would EVER try to abduct while an adult was with that child.

 

These reports coupled with the child porn cases that he has seen, definitely color how we have chosen to "overprotect" our children. I do not believe that if we were still up in Almost Canada, ND, I would have the same level of concern...my kids would be riding their bikes (when age appropriate -- certainly NOT at 5 and 3) around the block alone and frolicking in the front yard with occasional peeks out the front window. But not here in Almost Mexico, AZ.

 

Just my .02

Edited June 5, 2009 by BikeBookBread
gramar problemz.... :(

[Kelli in TN]

Based on most of the responses here I am not being a good mother. .

 

There is a HUGE difference between defending ourselves for our protective stance, and putting your parenting decisions down. From the more protective parents I have not seen one person say to a less protective parent "You should do this" or "your child will be not an independent adult because of your parenting decisions".

 

I think we all respect your right to decide for yourself, we parent the way we feel is right for our families.

[Alicia64]

I agree with SwellMomma that often it's not stranger abduction, but people close to the family who know habits and routines.

 

But, I'll tell you, I cannot seem to go in a store with my two boys and not remember Adam Walsh -- John Walsh's little boy who was stolen while playing in a toy aisle away from his mom for a few minutes.

 

It's just frightening to know that the psychopaths live among us and look just like you and me. And they're thinking. They're planning. That's what freaks me out.

 

We're managing our own lives, not bothering anyone and these idiots are out hunting adults/kids down.

 

We all have to make our own decisions about how protective or not we're going to be. Just because another mom is less rabid than I am, doesn't mean I'm going to judge her parenting abilities. It's a complicated issue.

 

Alicia

[Ibbygirl]

I just want to clarify for my part that I am absolutely NOT blaming this poor mother. She could not have forseen this any more than anyone can forsee any tragedy. I was just speaking for myself that I wouldn't let my children out alone. When my mother was growing up, she was not allowed to go anywhere without a chaperone. Not because of fear of abductions or whatnot, on the contrary her whole neighborhood were extended family members so she was pretty safe in that respect. Rather it was a deterrant for the children to act up or get into trouble knowing that someone was there watching over them, the added benefit was that she was also protected from the type of situation that this poor family is dealing with. Call it a culture difference if you will (my family is Hispanic) but nobody in my family has suffered a social defecit due to this type of upbringing.

[Kelli in TN]

I just want to clarify for my part that I am absolutely NOT blaming this poor mother. She could not have forseen this any more than anyone can forsee any tragedy.

 

:iagree:

 

When I hear stories like this I don't launch into the blame game. But I do add the tragedy to the little checklist in my head as yet another thing to be vigilant about.

[Melinda in VT]

There is a HUGE difference between defending ourselves for our protective stance, and putting your parenting decisions down. From the more protective parents I have not seen one person say to a less protective parent "You should do this" or "your child will be not an independent adult because of your parenting decisions".

 

I think we all respect your right to decide for yourself, we parent the way we feel is right for our families.

 

Kelli, I don't know if you were thinking of me when you wrote this, but in case you were, I would like to clarify.

 

I wonder if the level of protection in our society (and I count myself in this) is contributing to the issue we have as a society of kids not making a transition to independent adulthood.

 

I wonder. That's all. I do not know if there is a relationship. I am certainly not accusing anyone here of making poor parenting decisions. I was pretty sheltered myself, and I think I turned out all right.:D

 

And I think about that (safety vs. independence) as I try to decide where to draw the line for my kids. That's all.

[Jean in Newcastle]

We have made connections in our community that I hope will help keep our children safe. I know all the families in our block. I do not allow the kids to enter any of the houses with any of our friendly neighbors. But I do know that my neighbors do have an eye out on my children (and others in the neighborhood) when they are out playing, just as I have my eye out on their children (and mine) when they are out playing.

 

I know all the employees at our local grocery store. I let the children out of my sight to collect different items for our cart. The children know the employees and feel comfortable asking for help. They are not allowed to go into the back of the grocery store or any secluded place with even an employee that we know well.

 

We walk at the same small mall every day during bad weather. We know the store owners so well that they give us "mall employee discounts":D We let the kids run ahead a little or wait for us on a bench if they are tired because we know that there are many friendly eyes on them.

 

We don't let "the village" raise our kids but we do let the village help us watch out for our kids. But we make sure that all the watching is in public places. My kids are taught to never go with an adult - from church, neighborhood etc. - into a secluded place.

[Kelli in TN]

Kelli, I don't know if you were thinking of me when you wrote this, but in case you were, I would like to clarify.

 

I wonder if the level of protection in our society (and I count myself in this) is contributing to the issue we have as a society of kids not making a transition to independent adulthood.

 

I wonder. That's all. I do not know if there is a relationship. I am certainly not accusing anyone here of making poor parenting decisions. I was pretty sheltered myself, and I think I turned out all right.:D

 

And I think about that (safety vs. independence) as I try to decide where to draw the line for my kids. That's all.

 

No, I think I quoted the poster to whom I was responding. A poster said that by these standards she would be considered a bad mother and I was clarifying that nobody is really saying that.

 

This topic gets to me because this has been hashed out on these boards before and usually the more protective parents are portrayed as smothering nutcases who won't let their children have lives and at our house nothing could be further from the truth. I have no issue with different parenting styles, I have issue with being told my kids are being harmed by my parenting style.

[mom4him]

In the next town over from me a 5yo girl was riding her bike in broad daylight right out in front of her apartment. But her mom was not outside with her. She was grabbed off her bike. Police have been searching for days and they finally found her yesterday. Dead. Buried in a shallow grave near a river. This is so close to us...maybe 15 minutes from here.

 

I read about this all too often in the metro-Detroit area. I remember one story of a 4yo boy who was grabbed at Target and never heard from again. So for those who say the "statistics" show that this doesn't happen all that often or no more so than in earlier decades, etc.... I wonder how this little girl's mom feels at this exact moment about "statistics"?

 

My heart is breaking for her.

Well, I guess I am sort of in between many of you. My two are 8.5 and 9.5. They have about a 3 block stretch they can ride their bikes.(1.5 up and 1.5 down from our house. They do not go on the side streets. I can look out my front window and see them at any given time and check on them constantly. They are also really good about staying together. I let them go the the one neighbor 1/2 block up and play in the front yard as I can always see and hear them there.

I think one of the biggest things is to teach them what to do. We have Stranger Danger DVD and it is excellent. I know this isn't full prof but helps.

We also live in Rally town. The worlds biggest motor cycle rally comes to our small community of about 6000 people once a year. We are inindated with upwards of 1,000,000 people at this time. That week our dc get to play in the back yard. Many of these people that come in are just plain nice people. Many are near naked, drugged up, drunk, .......... We live 1 block off one of the two main streets that leads to down town where all the 'action' is. Ugg!

I don't criticize anyone for protecting their child. We each have to do what is write for us and our children. I do get plenty of the criticizm for being way to protective of ours though. :)

[Impish]

Every parent does the best they can. And I find it heartbreaking and a bit appalling that there are those who have posted and openly blamed the mom for the loss of her precious child. You have no idea what the situation was. She could have run into the bathroom, any one of a number of scenarios...and lets face it, there are a vast number of parents who allow their children to play in their own yard, believing them to be safe. And you know, they SHOULD BE. Children darn well SHOULD be safe in their own flipping yards. It is not the mother's fault that a twisted, sick EVIL individual stole her child and killed her. It is the evil sack of scum's fault, and nobody else's. The mother is his victim as well. If she knew this person that did this, she's even more his victim, as she's been doubly betrayed...this is no longer a stranger, but someone her and her child trusted.

 

Blows my mind and turns my stomach that people would actually sit here and blame the mother for the actions of a sick and twisted individual because she didn't have her eyes on her child every moment.

 

I hope to God that nobody who knows this poor woman is in any way associated with this board. I can't imagine the pain that such callous, lofty judgment would cause her.

[BikeBookBread]

Every parent does the best they can. And I find it heartbreaking and a bit appalling that there are those who have posted and openly blamed the mom for the loss of her precious child.

 

Who has blamed her?

[PiCO]

Statistics mean absolutely nothing when it happens to you.

 

I disagree. I would say statistics mean nothing to *you* when it happens to you. Statistics continue to mean something to *me*.

[sandellie4]

I was a victim of a crime as a child, too. I am VERY vigilant, with myself and all of my children, and am considered "overprotective" by some other parents. The thing about life and statistics is that it's about minimizing the odds to the best of your ability. Whether you make sure the car doesn't move until everyone's got the seatbelt buckled, or whether your kid doesn't play outside unsupervised, the point, IMO, is to minimize the risks where you can.

 

For me, the risks are lower that one of my children will die in a minor or moderate vehicular accident, because of the precautions we take. The risk of having my purse stolen from the car is lower because I don't leave my purse in the car; even in my house, I don't leave my wallet or purse by the door, so no one has the opportunity to just reach in and swipe it. The risk of a household accident is lower because of the precautions we take. And the risk of our having a child kidnapped and abused or murdered is lower because we are "overprotective." Being abducted, no matter how miniscule the odds, is a crime of opportunity. I don't want it to happen to ANYONE, but I make it harder for it to be MY child. I do care about facts, and I am far more concerned on a daily basis about traveling in the car, talking about safety at home, etc., but I'm going to do whatever I think is needed to protect my children from opportunistic crimes.

 

I don't blame the mother in this case at all, because I feel that if I hadn't been a victim, I might not be as careful. It's easy to feel overly secure in America. I feel that many parents' sense of overprotectiveness is systematically stripped from them, by school officials, well-meaning friends and neighbors, and child experts. It's a BAD thing to be overprotective and I've been called on it in public situations, to my embarrassment. I was accused in public school of being too overly involved, because I thought that a kid should get services that were agreed upon in an IEP, and now I'm home schooling (which some consider "overprotective" in terms of educating them -- what do I want -- Superkids??). No, I want them to have a life. I am their mother, and I want them to have a life.

 

Sandy

 

I was kidnapped at gunpoint when I was a teenager. The statistics mean nothing to me -- I am one of the data points.

 

My view is that it is better to live with my eyes wide open than to think that something could never happen to me or to someone I love. I am most certainly much more vigilant than most people are, because of my experience. I automatically continuously scan everyone I see, looking for evidence of a concealed weapon or behavior that is out of place, for example. It's just something I do; it is automatic.

 

I don't torture my children about it -- they have no idea about what happened to me, how I respond to my environment, and they sure don't worry that something will happen to them. They are being prepared to handle life's responsibilities, not being turned into over-vigilant mini-Me's.

[PiCO]

Not worth the risk at all. I don't believe the "50" children a year statistic. Just go here and tell me if you only have 50 names a year. No way I would sacrifice my child's safety for a little independence. Sorry. If my child HAD to have a tragic end to their life, I'd rather it be through an accident than being raped, tortured, and murdered. That's just me.

 

I think the 50 number is supposed to refer to abductions by strangers.

 

However, I think someone said the "person of interest" in this case was not a stranger to the child. So this case might not even be counted in that statistic of 50.

 

Much easier to talk a child into going for a ride in your car if you are friends with their parent(s). And boyfriends of the mother are much more likely to molest a child than the natural father.

[Ibbygirl]

But, I'll tell you, I cannot seem to go in a store with my two boys and not remember Adam Walsh -- John Walsh's little boy who was stolen while playing in a toy aisle away from his mom for a few minutes.

 

It's just frightening to know that the psychopaths live among us and look just like you and me. And they're thinking. They're planning. That's what freaks me out.

Alicia

 

 

I live not 1 mile from the Hollywood Mall where Adam Walsh was taken. It rocked our entire community. First the frantic searching for him by EVERYONE when he was missing and then when they found his remains in the canal everyone was just heart broken. It galvanized our entire community and made us all *sadly* a lot more aware of our surroundings. I am certain that every school in South Florida had a memorial for him, I know ours did. :(

Edited June 5, 2009 by Ibbygirl

[Murphy101]

locally in Almost Mexico, AZ; every instance I have seen has occurred in a "respectable" neighborhood, one neighborhood in particular has been mentioned several times --

 

if I lived in a border town, I'd be hyper vigilant big time. when in less than an hour your kid can not only be gone, be in another country? oh yeah. I'm with you on that.:iagree:

 

 

I think also some people are probably missing a key issue in this discussion.

 

these children were not just out without mom

they are ALONE

entirely.

no siblings, no neighbor kid

nadda.

yikes.

 

would I blame the mother?

nope.

do I think she blames herself?

probably.

would I blame myself?

you bet.

 

I think the entire stranger vs known person/family/friend/neighbor is nonsense and unrealistic.

To a 5 year old ANYONE who will talk to them is a friend.

Good grief, my 8 yr old has never met a stranger yet.

[Impish]

Apples and Oranges....

 

the crime could have been prevented if the mom had been watching her child. Do I "blame" the mom? Well, somewhat, yes. She did not do everything she could reasonably do to protect her child. That's my job as a mother...to raise my children and keep them safe to the best of my ability.

 

If you are in a car accident that is not your fault and your child dies...that is a different story. But if I was in a car accident that WAS my fault (like I was speeding, ran a red light, etc.) and my child died I absolutely would blame myself.

 

And the "rareness" of the situation will be of no comfort to me if it is my child who is now dead.

 

I was asked who blamed the mother

 

 

[Heather in Neverland]

I was asked who blamed the mother

 

 

 

Yes, I said that and I stand by it. Do I blame the person who committed the crime? Of course. But is the mother "blame-LESS" in this situation? No. You can come up with a million reasons why she left her 5yo daughter completely unattended in the parking lot of her apartment complex and I would say to you that none of them are good enough. If the phone rings, or the baby cries, or you have to go to the bathroom, or start dinner, or whatever...you take the child inside with you. End of story.

 

I am absolutely horrified for this mother and I assume she will be blaming herself forever... I would be blaming myself forever too.

[Greta]

Well call me crazy, but I think there's a big difference between cars and rape/murder/abduction. one is a sad and tragic death. the other is a horrific, unthinkable, unhuman disgusting sick and abdominable death.

 

 

I would be devastated if my child died in a car wreck. you bet.

 

But that is nothing to how I'd feel if they were abducted, beaten and raped.

 

I imagine any man feels the same about his wife and kids.

 

My dh would be devasted if I died in a car wreck.

 

But to know that someone kidnapped me, beat me, and raped and brutally murdered me? Or god forbid his baby girls?

 

that would probably kill him.

 

I certainly was NOT equating the two!!! And you'll note I said my dd does not play outside unsupervised (well, except in our BACKyard, which has a locked gate and four protective dogs!). If my dd died in a car wreck, I might be able to live with it. If she died at the hands of a rapist/murderer, I'm fairly certain I would not. So I'm not disagreeing with you!

 

But I think a valid point was being made that sometimes we tend to overreact to things that are super-scary, while under-reacting to other things that are clearly dangerous.

 

There is always that one in a million chance that your child is going to be kidnapped out of your front yard. But, statistically, speaking, there is a far greater chance of you getting into a deadly car accident on your way across town to meet friends at the museum. This mother is no more to blame for what happened than a mom driving her kids to the museum is to blame for a deadly accident caused by a drunk driver. Yet one gets nothing but sympathy while the other gets a mixture of sympathy and blame. Isn't that kind of strange?

 

Well, anyway, the only real point I was trying to make is that I *try* to protect my daughter from dangers in proportion to the risk. Risk does, however, encompass more than just the statistical probability of an event happening, it also involves the consequences of that event happening. And since the consequences of kidnapping are far more horrifying than than the consequences of a car accident, believe me I do take that into account. I just think it's odd how often people will fail to take certain risks into account, while focusing so much mental energy on others. I'm sure I'm guilty of it too. That's why it's good to stop and take a moment to think about these things.

[Kelli in TN]

Yes, I said that and I stand by it. Do I blame the person who committed the crime? Of course. But is the mother "blame-LESS" in this situation? No. You can come up with a million reasons why she left her 5yo daughter completely unattended in the parking lot of her apartment complex and I would say to you that none of them are good enough. If the phone rings, or the baby cries, or you have to go to the bathroom, or start dinner, or whatever...you take the child inside with you. End of story.

 

I am absolutely horrified for this mother and I assume she will be blaming herself forever... I would be blaming myself forever too.

 

I don't think I would actually blame the mother, but I do not think she did all that was in her power to protect her child in this situation.

 

One time I was loading stuff in the car and suddenly my oldest, who was about 14 at the time, came running past me screaming. He retrieved his little brother who was standing next to the side of our busy road as a car came speeding around the curve. He snatched him up just in time. The child had wriggled out of his carseat and escaped.

 

Another time I accidentally left a child at the music store when I was picking another kid up from music lessons.

 

Both times I was not deliberately negligent, both times I was to blame, both times I was wracked with guilt for months.

 

 

If something had happened to either of these children I would not have been without blame.

[Spy Car]

Really, I seriously doubt that my adult children felt like their lives were all that limited. And they are independent young adults today.

 

I have enough parenting mistakes to fill 100 books, but being outside with them while they played in our cove is not one of them.

 

I have little doubt that you are one of the best moms ever :001_smile:

[Spy Car]

Another time I accidentally left a child at the music store when I was picking another kid up from music lessons.

 

Usually :D

[Tree House Academy]

I am overprotective too...and I feel like 5 is WAY too young to be outside alone!!! My God! I do think the mother had faults...but I know that I have made mistakes too that could have ended very differently....

 

When my younger son was 2 or so, I went to a woman's house to get a dog that I was fostering. She was still caring for the dog and I came to "meet" him. As I started to leave (middle of summer), she called me back to tell me something. I spent about 2 minutes talking to her in front of my car. When I went to get back in the car, it was HOT. My child was in the back seat in that heat for at least 2 minutes while I talked to her. He whinned, "mommy, I am sooo hot" and then started closing his eyes. I turned on the air, rolled down the windows and did all I could to cool him down. He was fine in a few minutes. And that was when I realized how close *I* had come to being one of those stupid parents who leave their kids in the car, in the heat, and they lose their child. To this day, I have not forgotten nor forgiven myself for that...just to think of what COULD have happened that day...and because of what? a foster dog! :(

 

I made the mistake recently of letting my 5 year old walk to a "game" at a festival about 10 yards away from me with his 9 year old brother a month or so ago. Big brother got his turn at the game and little brother came to find me....only the line had moved and I wasn't where he remembered me being. I screamed bloody murder for him out in the middle of the street. I was FRANTIC! Finally, by the grace of God, he came running to me. I will NEVER let my kids out of my sight again...not for a second. Anything can happen - and it happens in an INSTANT!

Edited June 5, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[KingM]

But the thing is, people take cars and the ability to get from point A to point B whenever they feel like it very much for granted. They buckle up, sure.

 

It's interesting how much scarier flying is than driving, even though you're far more likely to die in a car, even to the point where the most dangerous part of your trip is the drive to the airport.

 

I think it's because you have the illusion of control in a car. You've put on your seat belt, you're not talking on the cell phone, your kids are in car seats. You would never dream of drinking and driving. Oh, and your reflexes are pretty good, aren't they? Even if a drunk driver veers over the median from the opposite lane, there's the thought that we can swerve quickly to avoid the accident. Oh, and if there is an accident, you'll probably survive.

 

Nevertheless, several hundred people die every week in this country from car accidents. A single airliner goes down and it makes international news.

 

That's because in a plane we have zero control. If the pilot decided to steer into the ocean, down we go. If the engines stop working, we don't pull over to the side of the road, muttering under our breath. Down we go.

 

And when you do crash, you almost always die.

 

I think this is part of why a stranger abduction is so scary. Never mind that our child is in greater danger from the seemingly nice old man at church, or the brother-in-law who you'd never suspect. These things usually don't happen and we tell ourselves that if we're vigilant, we'll see it coming. And we usually do.

 

Stranger abduction is random. It's random, and it's rare enough that it makes the national news when it happens. I think that makes it seem more common that it is, and it certainly amplifies the risk. I'll bet there has always been this sort of evil, we just hear about it more and so the world seems a more dangerous place.

[Spy Car]

I think this is part of why a stranger abduction is so scary. Never mind that our child is in greater danger from the seemingly nice old man at church, or the brother-in-law who you'd never suspect. These things usually don't happen and we tell ourselves that if we're vigilant, we'll see it coming. And we usually do.

 

Stranger abduction is random. It's random, and it's rare enough that it makes the national news when it happens. I think that makes it seem more common that it is, and it certainly amplifies the risk. I'll bet there has always been this sort of evil, we just hear about it more and so the world seems a more dangerous place.

 

You are a voice of reason :001_smile:

 

Bill

[KingM]

Well, anyway, the only real point I was trying to make is that I *try* to protect my daughter from dangers in proportion to the risk. Risk does, however, encompass more than just the statistical probability of an event happening, it also involves the consequences of that event happening. And since the consequences of kidnapping are far more horrifying than than the consequences of a car accident, believe me I do take that into account.

 

I like how you put this and completely agree. I also want to note that while the odds of your child disappearing to never be seen again are vanishingly small, the odds of your child being molested are terrifyingly high. No, it's not the same thing, but it's bad enough to be very careful with your younger children.

 

There was once an older, unmarried guy in our church who was friends with all of the little children. He ran a free "daycare" in his house and lots of people sent their kids there. Now I know that 99% of the older, unmarried guys at church are probably good, descent people, but something about this guy seemed off to me. And the free part of his daycare struck me as a big red flag. Our oldest son was just a baby at the time, but had he been older, there's no way that I would have left him alone with this guy.

 

Turns out he was molesting the children under his care. It was horrible for the parents involved, of course, but also damaging to the church community, trying to deal with this situation.

 

You are a voice of reason :001_smile:

 

Bill

 

Thanks. We dads need to stick together. ;)

 

(I apologize if I offended anyone. That was not my intention.)

Edited June 5, 2009 by KingM

[Jennifer in MI]

I was kidnapped at gunpoint when I was a teenager. The statistics mean nothing to me -- I am one of the data points.

.

 

I'm so sorry. Two men once attempted to kidnap me and two friends (they were the daughters of the circuit court judge in my hometown - we think it was related to a case he had just heard). That was scary enough. I can't imagine it actually happening and at gunpoint!!

 

The "blame" may go even further. I think I read that the suspect was an aquaintance of the mother. The company you keep certainly can have dire consequences. If I am mistaken and she did not know him, then obvioulsy this does not apply. However, it is sometimes the case that the perpetrator was an associate of the parent and was clearly an individual of ill repute in the first place, weather or not the parent was aware of any sexualy deviant behavior. In that case, culpability increases in my mind.

 

I read this a while ago, but I believe that the man they think did it is a friend of the mother's boyfriend. Both have criminal records and the suspect/person of interest is on the sexual offenders list. The mother is quoted as saying that this person is like a father figure to her daughter. So, this is not a case of stranger abduction.

 

I definately fall into the "overprotective" category. But, I think I'm pretty good at hiding it! LOL My kids do ride their bikes to karate or baseball - but only with a brother and I usually give them my cell phone. My 13 yo and 11 yo stay home alone for an hour or two with strict instructions not to answer the door or phone unless it's me or dad. I've even left the 13 yo home alone with the 3 yo when she's been asleep. Each family has to find a balance for themselves!

[Spy Car]

 

Thanks. We dads need to stick together. ;)

 

 

 

A DAD!!!???

 

Who knew? :D

 

I like that conquering lion of Judah

 

Bill

[Old Dominion Heather]

This author does a great job (though I am sure others will disagree with that assessment) speaking to the fact of the crime rates that are lower now than they have been since the 1970's.

 

Free-Rancge Kids

 

Her book is excellent.

[KingM]

This author does a great job (though I am sure others will disagree with that assessment) speaking to the fact of the crime rates that are lower now than they have been since the 1970's.

 

Free-Rancge Kids

 

Her book is excellent.

 

My wife read Free Range Kids and I read/skimmed a good chunk of it. I'll second the recommendation.

[lionfamily1999]

Lol, I'll definitely back that up ;)

[Firefly]

Hmmm, I love how it's the men suggesting some of us are being cloistering and unreasonable... :lol:;)

 

Jean in Newcastle: I like your approach. We have tried to do the same thing. I think a sense of community is important and unfortunately, sadly lacking in many places today.

 

We have made connections in our community that I hope will help keep our children safe. I know all the families in our block. I do not allow the kids to enter any of the houses with any of our friendly neighbors. But I do know that my neighbors do have an eye out on my children (and others in the neighborhood) when they are out playing, just as I have my eye out on their children (and mine) when they are out playing.

 

I know all the employees at our local grocery store. I let the children out of my sight to collect different items for our cart. The children know the employees and feel comfortable asking for help. They are not allowed to go into the back of the grocery store or any secluded place with even an employee that we know well.

 

We walk at the same small mall every day during bad weather. We know the store owners so well that they give us "mall employee discounts":D We let the kids run ahead a little or wait for us on a bench if they are tired because we know that there are many friendly eyes on them.

 

We don't let "the village" raise our kids but we do let the village help us watch out for our kids. But we make sure that all the watching is in public places. My kids are taught to never go with an adult - from church, neighborhood etc. - into a secluded place.

[erinfontenot]

I agree. My mom didn't let us out of her sight and I don't let me kids out of mine either. That is so sad about that little girl. I will keep her and her family in my prayers. In my opinion, parents feel they need to give their children too much independence. They need us to protect them, plain and simple...

[Tree House Academy]

Hmmm, I love how it's the men suggesting some of us are being cloistering and unreasonable... :lol:;)

 

If anything, my husband is MORE over protective of our kids than I am! His comes from losing his dad at a young age, I believe (drives the fear of ever losing his kids!).

[Greta]

I like how you put this and completely agree.

 

Thank you for saying that.

 

I also want to note that while the odds of your child disappearing to never be seen again are vanishingly small, the odds of your child being molested are terrifyingly high. No, it's not the same thing, but it's bad enough to be very careful with your younger children.

 

I wholeheartedly agree, and that's one of the reasons that I think the whole "stranger danger" card is overplayed. It usually is NOT a stranger, but an uncle, a friend's dad, or other person that the family knows who molests or rapes their child. I hope and pray that this is not a representative statistical sample, but among my close female friends and family, I am in the minority because I was *not* molested as a child or raped as a teen or young adult. And in every single case, it was a neighbor, an uncle, a brother, a close family friend, etc. NOT ONCE was it a random stranger. I am far more concerned and vigilant about that risk than I am that of my daughter being taken out of my front yard. (Okay, I am paranoid about the front yard thing, but that has more to do with the fact that we live on a corner which people zoom around at twice the speed limit!) I have seen how my friends and family members have suffered with these emotional scars for decades afterward. I would never be able to forgive myself for putting my daughter in that kind of situation.

[Ibbygirl]

I also want to note that while the odds of your child disappearing to never be seen again are vanishingly small, the odds of your child being molested are terrifyingly high. No, it's not the same thing, but it's bad enough to be very careful with your younger children.

 

 

This is so true. Almost every girl I knew growing up had something happen to her. :(