You want to know WHY I am overprotective?

[Prudent]

Didn't read through all 20 pages of posts and don't know if this was mentioned....

 

But the boyfriend of the victim's mother was a registered.s3x.offender.

 

I really just don't understand some people.

[Blessedfamily]

I think the parenting prejudice leans the opposite way. Those "free-range" parents are the "voice of reason" while us protective parents are stunting our children's emotional growth and will wind up with adult children who won't leave home? And I am the one positing my parenting paradigm?

 

The whole meaning of my original post was one of PREVENTION. This particular incident could have been prevented. Maybe other incidents cannot be but this one could have been. And it wasn't. And she's dead. And I think it is a tragedy on many, many levels.

 

I saw a few minutes of an episode of wife swap about this issue (I don't watch the show). The swapped wife wanted the husband to let the kids go outside alone, and he refused. She of course accused him of living in fear and ruining his kids' independence. He ignored her, and said it was just doing his job as a parent. I would have done the same thing.

 

NO. I would not let my 5yo outside alone. Stranger abduction isn't the only danger, and I live in a quiet community. You are right about it being prevention. Anyway, stranger abduction might be rare, but so is my child... rare and irreplaceable.

 

Also, my being outside has not stopped my dd from interacting independently with the other kids. We (particularly the mother directly in front of me) watch them work things out among themselves and step in only when necessary. Just because I go outside with her doesn't mean I prevent her from having to exercise her own judgment.

[Old Dominion Heather]

I know turning MY 9yo loose in NY city wouldn't be safe. He has never been to a big city and wouldn't have a clue what to do. However, if he needed to get home in my town, I would hope he would know how to make that happen. I live in a situation that doesn't make that type of "get home by yourself" situation possible.

 

But I don't think it was abusive to let her kid try. He has been riding the subway since he was an infant and I'm sure was self assured enough to scream bloody murder if anything had happened.

[5KidzRUs]

This thread is so heart wrenching for me. There are so many dangers for our children in this world. We gauge 'safety' based on many factors; (not limited to, but) including our personal life experiences and on data and research.

 

As far as parenting styles go, one thing is for sure: when our kids (God willing) are grown, we will find out FROM THEM how right or wrong we were ... right?

Edited June 8, 2009 by 5KidzRUs

[Peek a Boo]

But I don't think it was abusive to let her kid try. He has been riding the subway since he was an infant and I'm sure was self assured enough to scream bloody murder if anything had happened.

 

and so many parents assume the child will have an opportunity TO scream or act.

 

The danger isn't in what the child can see and avoid, it's in the dangers the children CAN't see or avoid, by nature of being a child --emotionally and physically.

[Greta]

This has nothing to do with "blaming" the victim like some have posted.

 

Just wanted to note that at the time I expressed my sadness at the mother being blamed, I did not realize this was something other than a completely random event. I didn't know about the association with the registered sex offender. That changes EVERYTHING.

[katemary63]

Just wanted to note that at the time I expressed my sadness at the mother being blamed, I did not realize this was something other than a completely random event. I didn't know about the association with the registered sex offender. That changes EVERYTHING.

 

Understood:001_smile:

[katemary63]

and so many parents assume the child will have an opportunity TO scream or act.

 

The danger isn't in what the child can see and avoid, it's in the dangers the children CAN't see or avoid, by nature of being a child --emotionally and physically.

 

Hmmm riding the subway alone in NYC at age 9 - sheer insanity. I was there in the '80s. We rode the subway, just to say we did it. It was the middle of the day and several people we saw scared the crap out of me. Late that day, we met up with a guy who grew up in NYC his whole life. He was in his 30's, 6'4" tall and well over 250lbs. ( he was a relative of my travel companion and we met him for lunch ) When he heard we rode the subway, he said, "Oh Lord, Even I don't take the subway! You take your life in your hands every time you go down there!"

 

I'm sure some of you have been there or lived there and have a different perspective, but this is what I have to go on and I sure don't think it's a safe place.

[Melinda in VT]

Hmmm riding the subway alone in NYC at age 9 - sheer insanity. I was there in the '80s. We rode the subway, just to say we did it. It was the middle of the day and several people we saw scared the crap out of me. Late that day, we met up with a guy who grew up in NYC his whole life. He was in his 30's, 6'4" tall and well over 250lbs. ( he was a relative of my travel companion and we met him for lunch ) When he heard we rode the subway, he said, "Oh Lord, Even I don't take the subway! You take your life in your hands every time you go down there!"

 

I'm sure some of you have been there or lived there and have a different perspective, but this is what I have to go on and I sure don't think it's a safe place.

 

It's my understanding that NYC in the 80s is very different from NYC now. I've been there 3 times in the last decade and rode the subways multiple times each stay. One stay was with children. I never felt unsafe.

 

Now, I wouldn't let my kids ride the subway alone at 9, but rural Vermont doesn't give one a lot of experience with city skills.

[Peek a Boo]

It's my understanding that NYC in the 80s is very different from NYC now. I've been there 3 times in the last decade and rode the subways multiple times each stay. One stay was with children. I never felt unsafe.

 

Now, I wouldn't let my kids ride the subway alone at 9, but rural Vermont doesn't give one a lot of experience with city skills.

 

I would posit that an adult feeling safe [esp in numbers- even numbers including little people] is a great deal different than a child riding alone. Once you strip the adult presence and buddy system, risks increase substantially. That is simply a fact, not a fear.

 

The sad part is that most children won't report when they ARE harassed, bullied, or molested, so when a child doesn't present physical signs of trauma we tend to assume that everything went "just fine." There is far more to a child's safety than just making sure they aren't killed in the process of growing up.

 

Of course, as another poster mentioned, I'm not necessarily fearful of my child DYING --death happens. It is why i don't mind driving, flying, or letting my kids participate in numerous activities that may result in injury or death. I am, however, very aware of what risks we can minimize to prevent unnecessary suffering at the hands of pure evil.

[Melinda in VT]

I would posit that an adult feeling safe [esp in numbers- even numbers including little people] is a great deal different than a child riding alone.

 

Oh, I agree with you. I was responding to Kate Mary's post about grown adults not feeling safe on the subway. I was sharing a different experience and mentioning that from what I have heard, NYC has changed a lot in the last thirty years.

[katemary63]

It's my understanding that NYC in the 80s is very different from NYC now. I've been there 3 times in the last decade and rode the subways multiple times each stay. One stay was with children. I never felt unsafe.

 

Now, I wouldn't let my kids ride the subway alone at 9, but rural Vermont doesn't give one a lot of experience with city skills.

 

You may be right about this. I have certainly heard a lot about how the whole city is safter then it was back then. Of course I still wouldn't let a nine year old ride alone. Why does a nine year old need to do anything alone. Like many have mentioned, we use the buddy system for most activites, adults included.

[Mommyof4ks]

Oh believe me, I am. I am protective in all those situations and more. "Only" 50 children abducted each year? I doubt that is much of a comfort to this little girl's mother right now. My child's need for independence takes a back seat to his safety.

 

She was such a beautiful little girl and this is a crime that could have been prevented.

 

Let me first say that I have not read this whole thread!

I understand this is scary as it is close to home for you and you are right the fact that only 50 kids are abducted each year or whatever the stats are is not much comfort to her mother. The fact is though that there are much greater dangers out there 35,000 people including kids die from the flu each year, 12,500 kids get cancer every year (about 1/4 die), and on and on, and we cannot protect our kids from everything. There is no guarantee that this would have been prevented if mom had been outside just out of arms reach.

 

Perhaps it is because we live in a smaller town, but my kids at 3 and 4 could play outside by themselves and we had no fence (I could always see them from our large windows). I was more afraid of deer attacks than people, but anyway we try not to live in constant fear.

[Harriet Vane]

Hmmm riding the subway alone in NYC at age 9 - sheer insanity. I was there in the '80s. We rode the subway, just to say we did it. It was the middle of the day and several people we saw scared the crap out of me. Late that day, we met up with a guy who grew up in NYC his whole life. He was in his 30's, 6'4" tall and well over 250lbs. ( he was a relative of my travel companion and we met him for lunch ) When he heard we rode the subway, he said, "Oh Lord, Even I don't take the subway! You take your life in your hands every time you go down there!"

 

I'm sure some of you have been there or lived there and have a different perspective, but this is what I have to go on and I sure don't think it's a safe place.

 

I live in an unsafe area of the city (Chicago).

 

I take the el, with my children, all the time. My husband takes the el to work every day. I have taken the el into very unsafe areas of the city (the projects) and have been fine. I have also taken the New York subway system, as well as Atlanta, Georgia and London, England.

 

To say you take your life in your hands on the subway (in general) is exaggerating more than a little.

 

Having said that, no, I would never send a 9yo child alone on the subway or the el. I have never sent my 12yo dd alone on the el. As she enters her teen years it's probable that she will take the el alone, but that will come with time, training, maturity, and confidence.

[katemary63]

To say you take your life in your hands on the subway (in general) is exaggerating more than a little.

 

This very well may be. I have no idea. It's just a quote from a very huge man who was born and lived his whole life in NYC. Maybe he was a scaredy cat? No, I'm being serious. I was shocked when he said he would never travel the subway. I thought, "Gosh, it must be very dangerous if this huge man won't go down there!" He was just one guy, but he made me think twice about doing it again. Course, this was in the 80's so? :D

Edited June 8, 2009 by katemary63