Are homeschool curricula far superior to public school curricula?

[Student Mommie]

Wow...as a new homeschooler, I am finding some really great curricula. It's like the old fable where every time I find a jem, I look up and see a better jewel just a little further on. And better...and better...Wow!

 

Why are public schools full of such boring curricula? What a shame that most students have to suffer through such un-enlightening textbooks. Or maybe that was just my time, and things are much better now even in public schools...

[Arcadia]

Why are public schools full of such boring curricula? What a shame that most students have to suffer through such un-enlightening textbooks.

 

"Boring" and "Superior" are such subjective terms.  "un-enlightening" is also subjective too. 

 

Saxon math and Singapore Primary math books are used in some schools. MCT books are used in some schools too.  Jacob's Ladder (Prufrock) is also being used in some schools. EPGY (Stanford) LA and Math is another program that is used in some schools.

 

Maybe you can give examples of what to you are interesting and superior secular homeschool curricula.  A curricula can be a great gem but it has to be a good fit for your child for maximum benefit.

 

ETA:

It was the teachers that make the textbooks come alive, and I had wonderful nuns for teachers who are capable of teaching without curricula.  My kids have some great teachers too that definitely teach better than me.

[maize]

Public schools are so busy teaching to the test and making sure they cover all the newest and greatest standards they don't have much room for seeking out and implementing great curricula.

 

Though I've heard of a few schools running really innovative and interesting programs.

[ajfries]

Something I'm coming to realize, is that the curriculum is not the end all be all, but rather just a tool.

 

A truly skilled teacher who is invested in her (or his) students can do wonders with a less than best curriculum. And a lousy teacher can botch the best curriculum money can buy.

[HS Mom in NC]

Yes, I consider the content of a Classical Education (in whatever form) and living books and some other types of homeschool curriculum to be superior in content and approach to the typical textbook/workbook and ps.  But then again, how practical is it do that in a classroom with 30+ kids with a variable percentage of apathetic/deadbeat parents in each classroom who have to pass a standardized test?

[Crimson Wife]

There are some good PS texts out there. K12 has some really good history texts and literature anthologies. Math in Focus is aimed primarily at the PS market. Warriner's was originally a PS grammar text.

 

There are also plenty of mediocre HS programs. I don't have all that high of an opinion of the algebra 1 texts on my state's approved textbook list, but they're more rigorous than a couple of the super-popular HS math programs.

 

ETA: Because my kids are enrolled through a virtual charter that provides a curriculum stipend, I have the chance to see a lot of PS texts. When families leave the charter, they have to turn in any non-consumable items and those go into the school's lending library. The lending library has a wide variety of materials, from programs primarily aimed at HSers like FLL and WWE/WWS to PS texts.

[sweetpea3829]

LOL, this is a loaded question if I ever heard one!

 

As others have said...curricula are what you make of them.  I would go so far as to say, you really can't compare PS curricula options to HS curricula options because they are completely different environments.  Almost everything about homeschooling is different from PSing.  Apples and oranges.

 

Most importantly, as others pointed out...what's good for one student won't necessarily be good for another student.

 

MUS is a well-loved math curriculum and I use it for my oldest child, but it would be a TERRIBLE choice for my second child.  Likewise, Singapore is fantastic for my son, but a nightmare for my daughter. 

 

 

[Student Mommie]

Heehee. Lots of energy in a lot of these responses. I think the word I meant was inspiring. I was never inspired in my PS experience, never felt any thrill from my education. I'm not making a blanket statement that math is done better in hs curricula, etc. I just mean that knowledge is a heck of a lot more interesting. You get the sense that writers of hs curricula are passionate about the subjects and teach big themes, etc. Yeah, apples and oranges,I get it. But they are some juicy tart apples compared to some dried out tasteless oranges. :p

[Erin]

I dunno... I have seen some really cheesy homeschool programs.  

Stuff that always makes me think, "This should be free."

[Joker]

I think it's really all in how it is taught. Good teachers can get students interested with no textbook. Oldest had the best ever Civics teacher in 7th grade in public school and he didn't use any textbook. Everything he used was something he came up with up and she learned so much and had fun doing it. We're fortunate that our ps administrators here aren't so hung up on only using approved materials. The core teachers have to use them here and there before district exams for review but the teachers are able to do their own thing for the most part.

[rebbyribs]

I figure that if I look through a bunch of options and pick out my favorites for my children, they should be more to my liking than public school curricula picked out by someone else and intended to serve a wide range of students.  

[AimeeM]

Well, there are obvious reasons.

I agree that "superior" is subjective.

Beyond that, remember that public schools must operate secular. Those awesome history texts you see as a homeschooler? Almost all of them are faith based in some way. Similar with science.

[FO4UR]

Funny you post this today.  A little visitor friend (kindy-age) played a Happy Phonics game with me today and she was so excited b/c she plays that same game at her school...the local ps.

 

 

There is a mountain of curric choices to sift through, and much of it is sooooo much more conducive to engaging lessons than what was available in years past.  

[Spring Flower]

I'll somewhat agree with the OP even though I know it is a loaded question. As a former PS teacher, the curriculum resources I had were TERRIBLE. I spent so. much. time. reworking it and basically writing my own. It was so overwhelming. I have seen dozens of programs since homeschooling that I would have LOVED to use as a PS teacher.

 

I can't 100% remember how curriculum and textbooks were chosen for our school. I seem to remember a few big name companies sending in sample books for the teachers to look over. Many teachers didn't even bother to add their input. A few who did add their input seemed to pick the books with the most color and cute drawings. I recall one teacher that was adamant about a certain math curriculum that wasn't in the stack of samples but the school said no. I would have given my right arm to teach from Saxon or Singapore. I don't recall the math curriculum we used but it was awful!

[Reefgazer]

I think homeschool curricula can have much more variation than public school curricula because public school curricula has to have an ear to everyone's sensitivities (religious, sexual orientation, etc...).  So we have a wider variety of curricula to chose from and can go with something that is superbly put together, even if it is religious, for example.  For the same reason, we can reject mediocre curricula.  I also think that homeschooling parents are very invested in their kids and in the curricula they chose, which give them an extra incentive to work one-on-one with the child and get the most out of the curricula.

[Farrar]

Weeellll...

 

There are excellent programs used by public schools.  Many of those are also used by homeschoolers.  There are abysmal homeschool programs that are perhaps worse than anything I've seen in a public school.

 

But my experience of curricula when I was teaching in public schools was that for the most part it was terrible.  I came to homeschooling thinking I would have to DIY most things because that's what I was used to doing as a classroom teacher.  And then I discovered that, holy smokes, curricula can be great.  There are some amazing curricula out there.

 

I think that public schools aren't really consumers in a classic sense.  Consumers evaluate the products they're going to use.  They then actually use them. If the products don't live up their their expectations, they change to another product. But committees pick the ps curricula. The actual users - kids and teachers - don't have a say. If the users don't like them, they can't change. Therefore, the market isn't a very good one and it tends toward flash and looks because the people evaluating the curricula don't do a very good job and often choose on superficial measures. Plus, there's this other trend with the constantly rolling standards and the political maneuvering in public schools that drives them to choose certain programs over others that doesn't have to do with the quality of the program.

 

On the other hand, homeschoolers can evaluate and change programs. If we don't like something, we will ditch it. We're a more exacting market because we have the power to shop around. So while there can be bad products, I think the market helps make better products while on the public school side only the altruism of curriculum makers and the good intentions of writers can really lead to good curricula.

[Ad astra]

I dunno... I have seen some really cheesy homeschool programs.  

Stuff that always makes me think, "This should be free."

 

:iagree: I'm a newbie and have already dropped many HS materials because they were not worth my time. Think I see a much wider variety of quality items in homeschooling programs, and my biggest frustration is that, except for math, there seems no HS curriculum in each subject that covers everything needed for the grade. They are all too different from each other. I mix and match to make a good fit for us, but am still left unsure whether we have done "enough" before moving on to the next grade level.   

[Heathermomster]

I pulled my DS from a 5th grade private classroom at the end of 1st semester. I never imagined that I would ever homeschool, but the private school became untenable to me. Not knowing enough about homeschool materials, I ordered all of the materials the school had been using, and all I can say is "Whoa!"

For science, I ordered the text and TM, and TM made all the difference. Science was awesome. The history text was ok after I pumped it up with supplements.

The Language Arts text was horrible. I don't recall the publisher, but it was bad, bad, bad.

The math text was ok. Math in my view is absolutely about the teacher, and their ability to differentiate effectively across multiple children. My MIL, a retired ps teacher, explained that it is very difficult to use manipulatives with a class full of children, and math teaching was never her thing. Come to think of it, none of son's grammar stage teachers enjoyed math. Singapore would rock their world. There are limitations in the classroom, so the texts attempt to cast the widest net.

I just love the flexibility that homeschooling affords. I understand your enthusiasm about hs materials though because DS has learned so much better since using materials that suit his learning en lieu of some yucky classroom work sheets and junk LA texts.

[kiana]

Yeah, I think one big difference is that homeschool curricula, pandering to a much more fragmented market, don't feel the need to cover absolutely everything that anyone might possibly want to teach every year. They can afford to say "you know what? Use that other curriculum over there if you want that, we don't cover that this year/this way."

[Roadrunner]

I think many PSs make poor curriculum choices, but they don't have to. There are excellent PS curricula on the market (Jr. great Books, MCT.....). I think as a homeschooler I face same choices between good, vad, and horrendous.

[Student Mommie]

Hmm, I wonder what everyone's favorite sources are for screening out HS fluff and finding the really meaty options (that, of course, you'd have to sift through for your situation/learning styles/etc)?  (I have 101 Homeschool Reviews by Cathy Duffy requested from the library... hoping it's a good one :) )  I'm guessing that most of the fluff is not popular?

[kiana]

Hmm, I wonder what everyone's favorite sources are for screening out HS fluff and finding the really meaty options (that, of course, you'd have to sift through for your situation/learning styles/etc)?  (I have 101 Homeschool Reviews by Cathy Duffy requested from the library... hoping it's a good one :) )  I'm guessing that most of the fluff is not popular?

 

Ask about it here, and search for old threads. Cathy Duffy has a website you can read, btw, where a lot more than the 101 are reviewed.

 

Remember, btw, that the meatiest curriculum around may not be a good fit for you or for your student. What you need is the curriculum where your student learns best, that you can reasonably implement.

 

[Roadrunner]

I would have loved to have something like MCT as a student. Nothing I ever used as a student was that interesting.

I know. Our school uses California Treasures. It's so uninspiring. Yet somewhere there is a classroom where kids are reading about Mud. If our local PS used Jr. Great Books and differentiated in math, we probably wouldn't be homeschooling. :)

[Targhee]

Um, blanket statement. I would argue that there are some pretty weak homeschool curricula out there, and there are some excellent public school curricula. I think, generally, homeschoolers *think* they are far superior to public school, but it isn't the nature of homeschool or public school or even the curriculum which creates superior results - it's far more nuanced than that.

[tomandlorih]

Are you referring to using ps curriculum at home??  I agree with previous posters who say that the textbook might be fine but the teaching of it lacking..   To use a ps text at home.. well.. I think it altogether depends on the child and mom.. My dd and I used a public school health textbook and music book last year and loved them!  Way better than anything I had found in the homeschool market.  I'm using Studies Weekly (a public school textbook substitute) for Science and History again this year as my "spine".  I like having a rough outline and then I fill in around it and my dd enjoys the silly little newspaper about each week's topic. Not every curriculum works for everyone.   Variations of this has often been quoted on the boards here and I think I first saw it in someone's siggy but I can't remember who..  The best curriculum is the one that gets done.  

[gardening momma]

Heehee. Lots of energy in a lot of these responses. I think the word I meant was inspiring. I was never inspired in my PS experience, never felt any thrill from my education. I'm not making a blanket statement that math is done better in hs curricula, etc. I just mean that knowledge is a heck of a lot more interesting. You get the sense that writers of hs curricula are passionate about the subjects and teach big themes, etc. Yeah, apples and oranges,I get it. But they are some juicy tart apples compared to some dried out tasteless oranges. :p

Maybe you're viewing it more from the teacher's point of view (you, as an adult, teaching your child) than from the student's point of view (you, when you were a child/teen). That can make a huge difference. I'm sure most new teachers feel the inspiration/rush of teaching in the first few years, and "older" teachers may feel a bit of inspiration/rush when they get new books.

[gardening momma]

I can't 100% remember how curriculum and textbooks were chosen for our school. I seem to remember a few big name companies sending in sample books for the teachers to look over. Many teachers didn't even bother to add their input. A few who did add their input seemed to pick the books with the most color and cute drawings. I recall one teacher that was adamant about a certain math curriculum that wasn't in the stack of samples but the school said no. I would have given my right arm to teach from Saxon or Singapore. I don't recall the math curriculum we used but it was awful!

My MIL taught 4th/5th grade at ps. They had committees of teachers who decided which textbooks to use. For example, she volunteered for the committee to select the next math curriculum. Or maybe she was the committee--I can't remember. So she had books from many different math programs/publishers to review/evaluate, and then decide on (or maybe just recommend to the school/principal/school board?). So she or the committee made the choice for the rest of the teachers who were not on the committee.

[gardening momma]

 

I think that public schools aren't really consumers in a classic sense.  Consumers evaluate the products they're going to use.  They then actually use them. If the products don't live up their their expectations, they change to another product. But committees pick the ps curricula. The actual users - kids and teachers - don't have a say. If the users don't like them, they can't change. Therefore, the market isn't a very good one and it tends toward flash and looks because the people evaluating the curricula don't do a very good job and often choose on superficial measures.

Or, the people on the committee do a good job of choosing a curricula that they would like to use, but not all ps teachers would choose the same thing for themselves, just as we homeschoolers are not all attracted to the same curricula.

[Erin]

That's how it's always operated in the schools I've worked in, too.  

 

The "curriculum committee" is usually made up of several teachers of individual subjects (and therefore elementary teachers might be on several committees), from K up through high school.  They first create the goals/scope/sequence for the curriculum (which has nothing to do with texts, btw), then compare differing series, grade levels within those series, select texts and/or series, make prescriptive teaching suggestions, etc, etc.   

 

Maybe this is just how small schools operate, but to be sure, the classroom teachers are the ones making the primary requests!

[gardening momma]

Hmm, I wonder what everyone's favorite sources are for screening out HS fluff and finding the really meaty options (that, of course, you'd have to sift through for your situation/learning styles/etc)?  (I have 101 Homeschool Reviews by Cathy Duffy requested from the library... hoping it's a good one :) )  I'm guessing that most of the fluff is not popular?

• reading/asking about it here
• Cathy Duffy's site, publisher's site
• reviews/descriptions in homeschool magazines or catalogs--Schoolhouse Publishing magalog reviews a lot of the curricula they list
• viewing samples online
• viewing the books in person
• my own experience in using various curricula and figuring out what my style is and what fits my style--then I can select curricula after viewing in person, without needing the first 4 in this list. So--time/experience

[Crimson Wife]

 

I think that public schools aren't really consumers in a classic sense.  Consumers evaluate the products they're going to use.  They then actually use them. If the products don't live up their their expectations, they change to another product. But committees pick the ps curricula. The actual users - kids and teachers - don't have a say. If the users don't like them, they can't change.

 

Things are even worse in states where the committee is done at the state level rather than the district level. There is also a big push to make sure that every program adopted has a component for English Language Learners and also students with LD's. Math in Focus made it onto the most recent CA state-approved list but Singapore Primary Math didn't in a large part because MiF has a Spanish language version and remedial components. I can totally understand why a district that has a lot of ELL's might choose MiF over Singapore, but the lack of a Spanish edition shouldn't keep a strong program off the state-approved list IMHO.

[Farrar]

At the public school where I taught, the curriculum was chosen by a committee that indeed included teachers, but they didn't really get to pick anything - the district had chosen the options.  And getting on the committee was really political.  You weren't there to pick the best thing always, sometimes you were there to jockey for position.  It was cruddy.

[Haiku]

I have encountered plenty of weak, lame, uninspiring homeschool curricula.

[sbgrace]

Actually, a lot of my favorite curricula have been ps oriented so far. My nephews were in a public school that was really fantastic, though they were lucky to get in (lottery system).

 

That said, I also taught in public school for 10 years. My coworkers and I had two or three uninspiring choices when adopting texts. I never saw anything remotely innovative, but good teachers can do inspiring things no matter the curriculum. Good teachers are also limited by testing pressures, increasing class sizes/budget cuts, and the inherent difficult in teaching a whole classroom of differing kids well. I've been out long enough that the first two didn't affect me too much, but the last was/is always difficult.