Living in harmony with those you disagree with

[KSera]

2 hours ago, Lecka said:

One person would visit us from out of state and couldn’t just leave his gun home if he was on a multi-day trip. 
 

Couldn’t he, though? I mean, unless he was traveling for hunting or for law enforcement, couldn’t he leave his gun at home?  Seems like for some people, guns are more important than people.

2 hours ago, SKL said:

I think just remember that these people are the same people you used to love / enjoy.  They have not changed, some aspect of the world around both of you has changed.

Both can be true. The world has changed, but also, some people have been sucked into some really bizarre things as of late and they really have changed. People believe and support things they never would have in the past, so I think that means they’ve changed. 
 

[SKL]

The way social media works, it filters "information" to the people who will receive it as confirmation of whatever they've started to believe.  Not everyone realizes how their brains are being manipulated.  If all they ever read tells them that the moon is cheese, then of course they're going to believe the moon is cheese, and "how doesn't everyone know that??"  While I'd prefer they choose better sources for their information, it doesn't make them bad people.

People are going to have their beliefs and die with them.  As long as they aren't going around beheading those they disagree with, it's more their problem than mine.

I choose not to be offended by differences of opinion or "facts."  Just don't attack my kids, kuz then it's on.  😛

[lovinmyboys]

So thinking this through, I think there are a few categories:

1. People being rude. For some reason I don’t think I have really examined this. I have always just tried to be the better person and be kind. I think way back in the day if someone was rude to me, I assumed I had done something wrong so I would apologize or try to make it better. Then I think it morphed into “everyone is fighting a battle so choose kindness” which I think was a step in the right direction. But then it started eating at me because I honestly can’t remember a time that I ever stood up for myself or said anything back. And looking back, people have said/done some really rude things and I probably shouldn’t have ignored it. At some point, I think I got sick of the rudeness and instead of standing up for myself/possibly causing conflict, I moved across the ocean.

2. Harmful beliefs and behaviors. These things aren’t really rude, but are things that I could decide are dealbreakers and I could choose to limit contact over or speak up about 

3. Things I disagree with are probably the things I need to just let go and change the conversation as long as the person is otherwise agreeable. These things I could be less judgmental about.

4. Not dealing with reality. This is hard for me, because it honestly feels hard to have a real relationship with someone who doesn’t live in the same world as me. I left a Bible study once because people were talking about the Covid vaccine having a chip from bill gates in it. They maybe do know a lot about the Bible, but how could I trust them? I try to have compassion for people who have fallen down the rabbit hole. I try to constantly guard against it because I’m sure it is easy to do. So maybe with this category I can be less judgmental but also not choose them as close friends or family.

5. If I am going to be different around my family, I will probably have to talk to my mom about it. My mom really is a great person and just wants everyone to be happy. Since I am generally pretty happy to please, I think she does rely on me to be the bigger person. I don’t think I have ever thought before whether that is fair or not.

Edited February 4 by lovinmyboys

[maize]

Have you read the book Boundaries (by Townsend and someone else)? It gets recommended here a lot. It basically explains that being a good and kind person doesn't have to mean not have personal boundaries or standing up for ourselves. Sometimes we do need to do something other than just ignore and accommodate the rude and inappropriate behavior of others-- sometimes,  establishing boundaries and standing up for ourselves is necessary in order to *preserve* a relationship that we value. If we let people walk all over us in the name of kindness we end up resenting them, and that builds an unhealthy sort of barrier in the relationship.

It might be worth reading and sharing with your mom.

[SKL]

I would also choose to do what is kind to my mom.  She deserves it, and you won't have her forever.  Just my opinion.

This means I wouldn't estrange myself from my siblings.  But it doesn't mean I'd try to spend tons of time with them.  It means I wouldn't say things to piss them off and make them leave, but I might politely end annoying conversations and move on to friendlier ones.

Edited February 4 by SKL

[kathyl]

On 2/4/2024 at 8:17 AM, lovinmyboys said:

I am not very close to most of my family any more and I think it is mostly my fault. They all believe things I just think are so crazy and I can’t get over it. I hate it because I am the one who pushed them away and I feel a bit lonely. I have four great teen boys and I do have good friends. We move a lot so my friends are kind of scattered everywhere, but I have some good ones here. I think I am going to try to get therapy to work through it. 
 

One of my family members is in the hospital and my mom is upset because I said I don’t really talk to that person. I of course wish no ill will on them. And it just kind of brought it home that I am not close because no one told me.

Also, I worry that if my kids make choices as adults that I don’t agree with, I will have a hard time staying close to them. I want to be a gracious and non judgmental person, but some things are just so hard for me to let go.

This is like the third bad thing that has happened to my family in the last 9 months and each one just makes me feel so guilty and lonely.

Maybe take a step back and figure out what's most important to you?  Your mother's approval, getting along with the relatives ... what.  What shows up at the top of your list of priorities?   

I actually don't view it as being judgmental to limit or cut some people out of my life.  I viewed it as protecting myself and my kids ages ago when I had to do that.  I actually didn't care HOW they lived their lives - that was THEIR business.  I just cared that they didn't make their problems my problems. 

It seems to me that you're placing your mother before yourself and your kids.  Will you regret that down the road?  Only you can make that call.  

Edited February 5 by kathyl

[Lecka]

My mom is a really nice person who wants everyone to get along.

 

But she is extremely conflict avoidant.  
 

Two main things happened that she (and my step-dad) let go without addressing.  Truly they should have been addressed.  My step-dad ended up addressing them in a way that really worked for me.  These things happened in my parents’ home.

 

Then it turned out there were low-level things that I was shocked they weren’t aware of, but they weren’t aware of them in particular and didn’t realize what it had gotten like for me.  But they also thought “well these things do sound like things this person would do.”  

[Lecka]

Things have gotten better, I think this person appreciates that my step-dad cared enough to talk to him and encourage him to change some ways he was acting.  

He has made it clear to me he wants to get along with me.  
 

I’m shocked, I did not think it would work out this well.  
 

I have also made it clear I do want to get along with him, and my husband has made it clear he wants to get along, too.  
 

 

Edited February 5 by Lecka

[Heartstrings]

4 hours ago, Lecka said:

Basically, I’m supposed to be the person who gets along.  It’s on me.

 

What about other people who are difficult?  “That’s just how they are.”

I’m in the same boat.  It really stinks.  
 

Everyone in my life knows I have a certain side in politics and that I follow it all pretty closely.   It’s a different side than most of my friends and family are on.  I try to avoid talking about it outside of a few select people, but I’ve been accused of “always talking about politics”.   I just accepted it as true for awhile, but I’ve finally picked up on that everyone else expects to rant or comment or monologue on their perspective and that doesn’t count as talking politics, but if I respond to them then I’m talking politics.  It’s so clearly one sided, it drives me crazy. 

[Scarlett]

I have a brother, the one I was raised with, who lives his life completely opposite of me.  He has rejected the religion he was taught as a child and he has struggled with addiction his entire life.  He is currently what he believes to be clean and sober but he smokes a lot of pot. He has a medical marijuana card so at least he is legal.
There were a few years where he was so off his rocker I could not talk to him. He was paranoid and telling me all kinds of conspiracy stories etc.   He was constantly bad mouthing our raising and I finally just kept repeating ‘your memories are not my memories’.   
He has been married and divorced 4 times. The last one died about 3 months after their divorce was final, leaving their 7 year old son motherless.  Since then my brother has had 2 long term live in girlfriends.  This current one seems nice but they still just live so different from me.  Just the smoking alone…..I can’t stand to be in their home even if they know I am coming and don’t smoke while I am there….it is just so hard to deal with.

They live 2 1/2 hours from us and have come for a meal twice in 13 years.  He is quite the homebody and besides I don’t think he would spend the night because he couldn’t smoke pot here.  
 

All of that said, we do have a good  texting and phone relationship. He is intelligent and witty and funny. I love him and I know he loves me.  Would I choose him as a friend? No,  But he is my flesh and blood and I love him.  So I keep a relationship the best way I know how.  

[ArtHaus]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I have a brother, the one I was raised with, who lives his life completely opposite of me.  He has rejected the religion he was taught as a child and he has struggled with addiction his entire life.  He is currently what he believes to be clean and sober but he smokes a lot of pot. He has a medical marijuana card so at least he is legal.
There were a few years where he was so off his rocker I could not talk to him. He was paranoid and telling me all kinds of conspiracy stories etc.   He was constantly bad mouthing our raising and I finally just kept repeating ‘your memories are not my memories’.   
He has been married and divorced 4 times. The last one died about 3 months after their divorce was final, leaving their 7 year old son motherless.  Since then my brother has had 2 long term live in girlfriends.  This current one seems nice but they still just live so different from me.  Just the smoking alone…..I can’t stand to be in their home even if they know I am coming and don’t smoke while I am there….it is just so hard to deal with.

They live 2 1/2 hours from us and have come for a meal twice in 13 years.  He is quite the homebody and besides I don’t think he would spend the night because he couldn’t smoke pot here.  
 

All of that said, we do have a good  texting and phone relationship. He is intelligent and witty and funny. I love him and I know he loves me.  Would I choose him as a friend? No,  But he is my flesh and blood and I love him.  So I keep a relationship the best way I know how.  

Qaneh Bosem/Kaneh Bosm/Cannabis. 

It isn’t an evil plant:) If the “religion” you are referring to is Christianity, then you should be square with Cannabis. See Exodus 30:23, for reference. 

qaneh bosem—> Hebrew for cannabis. :)

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, ArtHaus said:

Qaneh Bosem/Kaneh Bosm/Cannabis. 

It isn’t an evil plant:) If the “religion” you are referring to is Christianity, then you should be square with Cannabis. See Exodus 30:23, for reference. 

qaneh bosem—> Hebrew for cannabis. 🙂

Coincidentally I had just finished Ex chapter 29 in my Bible reading. I do not however see ‘qaneh bosem’  in the referenced verse. I did check multiple versions and translations. Even so the verse is giving instructions to make an anointing oil, not smoke it for a high. 
 

I have never said or believed pot is an evil plant. It has been illegal most of my life and therefore a non issue for me. Also I would never smoke anything for any reason so there’s that. 
 

 

 

[Faith-manor]

18 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

I’m in the same boat.  It really stinks.  
 

Everyone in my life knows I have a certain side in politics and that I follow it all pretty closely.   It’s a different side than most of my friends and family are on.  I try to avoid talking about it outside of a few select people, but I’ve been accused of “always talking about politics”.   I just accepted it as true for awhile, but I’ve finally picked up on that everyone else expects to rant or comment or monologue on their perspective and that doesn’t count as talking politics, but if I respond to them then I’m talking politics.  It’s so clearly one sided, it drives me crazy. 

That stinks!!!

It is why I have a whole side of family that I am estranged from and have been for a while. A relationship is a two way street. They NEVER consider anyone but themselves, and I am supposed to be the doormat they wipe their shoes on. Enough was enough. I began having physical stress symptoms just from knowing I was going to be in the same room with them for an hour.

It is bullying, plain and simple. I don't believe in "turn the other cheek" when it comes to bullying regardless of being related.

[Spryte]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

That stinks!!!

It is why I have a whole side of family that I am estranged from and have been for a while. A relationship is a two way street. They NEVER consider anyone but themselves, and I am supposed to be the doormat they wipe their shoes on. Enough was enough. I began having physical stress symptoms just from knowing I was going to be in the same room with them for an hour.

It is bullying, plain and simple. I don't believe in "turn the other cheek" when it comes to bullying regardless of being related.

Thank you for this. You said just what I needed to hear, at this moment. Just — thank you.

OP, I don’t have answers. I’m reading along, though.

[Sneezyone]

I haven’t read all the replies, so pls forgive me if what I’m about to say has already been said but I was struck by something this week. I’ve been binge watching ‘the man in the high castle’. Those of you who’ve already seen the series may know where I’m going.

I’ve been struck, once again, by the ease with which people convince themselves that they’re doing the right thing in excusing or ignoring or being silent in the face of gross behavior. Sometimes it’s because they’re protecting the people that they care about most, sometimes it’s because they are pursuing, single-mindedly, specific objectives. But often, it’s the people who simply sit back and watch, who observe, who do nothing in the face of violations against other people who do the most harm because it’s not their issue. It’s real easy to think that doing nothing, preserving the peace, is a benign and harmless way to behave, but it’s not. Doing nothing is the easy thing. Doing something is hard.

I’m not suggesting everyone take up arms, or be a warrior in any particular cause. I am simply saying that there are trade-offs when you do nothing and that it’s really important to weigh what you can and cannot live with and the impact that has writ large. The things OP described are, largely, things I could not live with. It’s within my own family that I have the MOST influence, not amongst strangers, and so I choose to act accordingly.

 

Edited February 6 by Sneezyone

[ArtHaus]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Coincidentally I had just finished Ex chapter 29 in my Bible reading. I do not however see ‘qaneh bosem’  in the referenced verse. I did check multiple versions and translations. Even so the verse is giving instructions to make an anointing oil, not smoke it for a high. 
 

I have never said or believed pot is an evil plant. It has been illegal most of my life and therefore a non issue for me. Also I would never smoke anything for any reason so there’s that. 
 

 

 

Well, it’s just an interesting FYI.

The Hebrew word is mistranslated into “calamus”. It is mentioned several times throughout the OT. Considering Kaneh was a common ingredient in the anointing oil and incense, there is a strong chance that someone maybe, probably, got high:) You can look into the etymology of the word for further understanding.

Just sayin’, be light on your bro. Pot is…well…kosher:) There are many unclean things to put into one’s body, and Kaneh Bosem isn’t one of them.

 

, 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, ArtHaus said:

Well, it’s just an interesting FYI.

The Hebrew word is mistranslated into “calamus”. It is mentioned several times throughout the OT. Considering Kaneh was a common ingredient in the anointing oil and incense, there is a strong chance that someone maybe, probably, got high:) You can look into the etymology of the word for further understanding.

Just sayin’, be light on your bro. Pot is…well…kosher:) There are many unclean things to put into one’s body, and Kaneh Bosem isn’t one of them.

 

, 

It is gross to smoke anything. The entire thread is about maintaining relationships with those we disagree with….I explained how I do so with my brother. 

[ArtHaus]

17 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It is gross to smoke anything. The entire thread is about maintaining relationships with those we disagree with….I explained how I do so with my brother. 

Pfft. Calm down. 

I said it was an interesting FYI.

Maybe some understanding about cannabis could help you relate better to your brother. You lamented pot smoking. A random person from the internet tried to guide you to a little knowledge. That’s it. 

You could put it in a piece of cake. No smoking necessary😆

I don’t smoke anything either, by the way. I am just a lady who likes to learn🤷🏻‍♀️

Take it easy-

 

[Heartstrings]

41 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It is gross to smoke anything. The entire thread is about maintaining relationships with those we disagree with….I explained how I do so with my brother. 

How would you feel about edibles?  I find smoking disgusting also but I’ll admit to being intrigued by the idea of edibles.  
 

(It’s illegal in my state, so it’s all just theoretical musing for me.  Being illegal trumps any other ethical considerations *for me personally*). 

Edited February 5 by Heartstrings

[Scarlett]

32 minutes ago, ArtHaus said:

Pfft. Calm down. 

I said it was an interesting FYI.

Maybe some understanding about cannabis could help you relate better to your brother. You lamented pot smoking. A random person from the internet tried to guide you to a little knowledge. That’s it. 

You could put it in a piece of cake. No smoking necessary😆

I don’t smoke anything either, by the way. I am just a lady who likes to learn🤷🏻‍♀️

Take it easy-

 

😵‍💫 I don’t know why you think I need to calm down. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[katilac]

On 2/4/2024 at 9:27 AM, City Mouse said:

Not giving a type 1 diabetic insulin is flat out child abuse, and I would report them in a heartbeat.

I am sorry to report that parents in the United States have extremely broad rights to choose faith healing over medical care. Many states have legal protections in place for parents who refuse medical treatment for their children for religious reasons, and a few of them explicitly shield parents from felony charges. 

Even in states that don't shield from felonies, it's vanishingly rare for parents to get prison time until they kill a second child. The first dead kid is free. 

Depending on the state they live in, CPS may or may not be able to intervene.

Faith Healing Exemptions

Faith-healing Parents  Imprisoned After 2nd Death in 5 Years

This next link includes a gruesome case of a child dying for lack of medical care after extended suffering; please do not click if you are sensitive: 

Faith Healing versus Child Protection

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

😵‍💫 I don’t know why you think I need to calm down. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Because you don't, you've been quite calm and chill. 

[ArtHaus]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

😵‍💫 I don’t know why you think I need to calm down. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Okay, maybe I misread you. My bad:)

[Shelydon]

You just decide to get along.  I have friends and family with widely varying ideas on everything from politics, to medical care, Covid, abortion and recreational drug use.  I have learned how to respect them for who they are (and likewise they for me).  Life without close friends or family stinks.  I am watching two acquaintances go through cancer treatment right now who alienated their family years ago and they are so alone.  It is heartbreaking to watch them try to manage treatment without help. In both cases, their kids are also distant because of the judgey attitude over the years.

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

How would you feel about edibles?  I find smoking disgusting also but I’ll admit to being intrigued by the idea of edibles.  
 

(It’s illegal in my state, so it’s all just theoretical musing for me.  Being illegal trumps any other ethical considerations *for me personally*). 

Same for me and as long as it stays illlegal on a federal level I don’t think I would try it. If it were legal I would not rule out trying an edible or other non smoking ways . I have moderate arthritis which responds well to NSAIDs. Recently I learned NSAIDs are not good for diverticulosis so that has me a little nervous as to what I am going to do to handle my arthritis. 
 

My brother has tried to get me to try various things for years. I get aaaaalllllll the info. lol 

A few years ago I heard a segment on NPR about a man who tried an edible for the first time and had a psychotic break!  That would be my luck!

[Heartstrings]

55 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Same for me and as long as it stays illlegal on a federal level I don’t think I would try it. If it were legal I would not rule out trying an edible or other non smoking ways . I have moderate arthritis which responds well to NSAIDs. Recently I learned NSAIDs are not good for diverticulosis so that has me a little nervous as to what I am going to do to handle my arthritis. 
 

My brother has tried to get me to try various things for years. I get aaaaalllllll the info. lol 

A few years ago I heard a segment on NPR about a man who tried an edible for the first time and had a psychotic break!  That would be my luck!

From the young people around me, I have learned that its very easy to take way too much.  A single gummy worm could have 5-10 doses!  I'd be nervous about that for sure. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

From the young people around me, I have learned that its very easy to take way too much.  A single gummy worm could have 5-10 doses!  I'd be nervous about that for sure. 

As much as people act like it's NBD, the research on health effects (especially cognition) isn't great. There are enough things in the world having a negative impact on our brains, I don't personally want to inflict more of those on myself on purpose.

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

As much as people act like it's NBD, the research on health effects (especially cognition) isn't great. There are enough things in the world having a negative impact on our brains, I don't personally want to inflict more of those on myself on purpose.

The more medications that get linked to early dementia the more I’m interested in marijuana medicinally.   A lot of anti depressants are linked to dementia now, for example.   If I needed something for depression or anxiety I might consider marijuana instead at this point. 
 

Recreationally I’m not convinced it’s any more damaging over all than alcohol, which is the mind altering drug of choice for most people. I drink a few times a year and if I were to replace those few times with an edible I think it would be fairly even trade health wise.  Assuming it were legal to do so in my state.  

[Pawz4me]

7 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I have moderate arthritis which responds well to NSAIDs. Recently I learned NSAIDs are not good for diverticulosis so that has me a little nervous as to what I am going to do to handle my arthritis.

FWIW, I have RA and a significant amount of OA. Tylenol Arthritis works relatively well for me. You could also try Tramadol.

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

FWIW, I have RA and a significant amount of OA. Tylenol Arthritis works relatively well for me. You could also try Tramadol.

I forget about Tylenol Arthritis…….it has worked for me for sure so thanks for reminding me.  
 

I have never tried Tramadol because I have such violent reactions to every opioid or narcotic I have ever tried.