Rant. I don't want to live nextdoor to my in-laws anymore.

[fairfarmhand]

7 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

 

Be strategic. Things sound like they are at a crossroads, and your timing of drawing lines in the sand could potentially really shape your life. Be smart while doing what you need to do.

 

Yes. This.

I don't think that you go find an attorney right now, but you, OP are correct in that you need to start doing some things for yourself. You need to take care of your own needs and have in the back of your mind, that this may mean the end. I don't know that I would threaten that or even mention it. I probably would just start setting up my own boundaries and, as you said, start taking care of yourself. And I think in your shoes, I would not say another word about my father's funeral. I would let him decide what he wants to do without my prodding or asking. And that will show you exactly how much he cares.

And skip the cousin visit. That's crazy. Normal people know that their spouse is never as excited about extended family as they are. I wouldn't expect my dh to entertain one of my cousins, and she's a delightful woman and he likes her fairly well. But she's not HIS cousin.  He's gaslighting you all over the place. 

[Grace Hopper]

@Ting Tang I just want to say I hope you realize that the way he is treating you is not in line with a healthy, “normal” relationship. Please know that your feelings (including bewilderment) are honest and valid. 
 

Call his bluff on meeting with the cousin. His if-then threat is completely out of line. If he won’t go to your father’s funeral, you go on your own and take an extra day or two visiting with your own family of origin, especially with those who may have traveled a long way to pay respects. Honestly, under the circumstances you will likely have more quality time with them without his presence. Also, you may find an ally in your extended family who could be helpful should you choose to… relocate. 
 

Go to the grocery and spend whatever it costs to feed your family. If he pitches a fit about any of it, you could quietly remind him of the cost of his foraging activities. 
 

Wherever you don’t want to go that you weren’t consulted about prior to being told it was planned, don’t go. Just don’t. 
 

I also echo the recommendation for counseling. I think it will be helpful for a relationship professional to help you understand what reasonable and unread behavior look like, as well as some coping strategies. And perhaps a plan for alternative life should your h react explosively to your new self advocacy. 

[Grace Hopper]

One more thing. He didn’t just wake up one day acting like he crawled out from under a rock. The dynamics of his FOO must come into play. He’s likely gotten/getting poor marital advice from his dad/mom/sister/brother/someone else. There may be someone else pulling his strings, iykwim. That’s something else a counselor can help you tease out. 

[Heartstrings]

59 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

I just don't think I should be required to visit with his cousin, a visit planned by others, on my daughter's birthday

Especially not DAYS after you just lost a parent.  The funeral hasn't even happened yet.  If you don't feel up to visitors or entertaining right now that is perfectly normal and okay.  I was not up to meeting distant family days after losing my mom, I was barely up to handling my own immediate family.  You deserve time to grieve.  He's being ridiculous and selfish.  Incredibly selfish.  

[Heartstrings]

49 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I don’t want to minimize the amount of hurt you feel by your husband’s emotional betrayal, but I would also encourage you to pause for a moment and put the emotions aside and really plan out your next moves:

1. Are your kids ready to go back to public school? What would they need to do to become ready?

2. Are you ready to begin FT employment? Can you sustain yourself above poverty level? Is there education or training that you need first?

3. Who would be the right attorney for you and your situation? What would a division of assets likely look like? 
 

Be strategic. Things sound like they are at a crossroads, and your timing of drawing lines in the sand could potentially really shape your life. Be smart while doing what you need to do.

 

This is excellent advice.  

[fraidycat]

42 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I don’t want to minimize the amount of hurt you feel by your husband’s emotional betrayal, but I would also encourage you to pause for a moment and put the emotions aside and really plan out your next moves:

1. Are your kids ready to go back to public school? What would they need to do to become ready?

2. Are you ready to begin FT employment? Can you sustain yourself above poverty level? Is there education or training that you need first?

3. Who would be the right attorney for you and your situation? What would a division of assets likely look like? 
 

Be strategic. Things sound like they are at a crossroads, and your timing of drawing lines in the sand could potentially really shape your life. Be smart while doing what you need to do.

 

I want to just reiterate the above. 
 

I think that you can quietly and firmly start setting boundaries around your time and energy, while also getting your ducks in a row for various possibilities, without issuing ultimatums or forcing changes that you might not be equipped for yet.

Do you need to upgrade some of your own education to be employable? 
 

Do you have a financial safety net?

Since you have become so enmeshed in his family, do you have a support system of your own?

Evaluate what life might look like for you after you issue ultimatums, then prepare  for the possible outcomes.

I also just want to assure you, that you are sane, and you appear to be in an emotionally abusive and manipulative relationship with a man-child, which will absolutely make you question your sanity. Big hugs.

I'd start setting boundaries with packing the kids (if they want to go) off on winter vacation with husband and his family, while staying home to rest and relax. You are worth your own time & energy.

[Ting Tang]

No, I am definitely NOT prepared to do life on my own with four children logistically or financially.  If he wants to be divorced from me, he can take those steps.  And if he does - I think he would come to find doing life on his own, even part of the time, with four children would also be difficult for him.  I have a master's degree, graduate certificate, and real estate license, but I haven't worked in a very long time.  I don't think I'd be leaving a marriage with very much in the end, but I would cope with whatever I had to cope with---it wouldn't be a shock to me to end up in that situation. 

 

For now, that is it: if I am not consulted or even asked, I am not doing it.  The cousin vs. funeral thing is just ridiculous in my mind.  

He's definitely someone who has always put his family first and their feelings above me with a ton of gaslighting.  Because my own family situation was broken, I think he thought he found someone who would be happy in this scenario.  The kids can go on the family trip this winter, but I do think I will stay home with the dog.  It's always it might be his mom's last this or that.  I've been hearing that for years.  I am 42 and am paralyzed in my marriage because his family.

 

[Innisfree]

Seconding everything @prairiewindmomma said, plus these below. 
 

27 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

also echo the recommendation for counseling. I think it will be helpful for a relationship professional to help you understand what reasonable and unread behavior look like, as well as some coping strategies. And perhaps a plan for alternative life should your h react explosively to your new self advocacy. 

 

19 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

One more thing. He didn’t just wake up one day acting like he crawled out from under a rock. The dynamics of his FOO must come into play. He’s likely gotten/getting poor marital advice from his dad/mom/sister/brother/someone else. There may be someone else pulling his strings, iykwim. That’s something else a counselor can help you tease out. 

He might be able to learn new skills in relating to you, if he wants to save your marriage. You probably need to learn new skills too.

Go to counseling. If he is willing to be involved, and genuinely seems open to learning once a professional tells him that what he’s doing doesn’t happen in a healthy marriage, then fabulous. He can go with you. Both of you need to stick with it.

If he isn’t willing, you go alone. You need to learn how to set boundaries and stand up for yourself. The sounding board would also help you figure out what comes next for you and your family.

[-----]

nm

Edited August 31 by kathyl

[prairiewindmomma]

Another point came to mind because I think you have a kid around high school aged....and IIRC you'd kind of been waffling about sending him to school given the amount of travel you were doing with dd and his resistant behaviors...if you are homeschooling independently, ie, not in a charter/public online school, some school districts do not accept "mom" credits.  If you have a kid who is a freshman now, give consideration to putting them in at semester if you are in this type of situation with your district and you think public school is probably likely by not-choice in the next few years. The kid will have only lost a semester's worth of credits, and those can typically be made up through zero hour, an online approved course, etc. I'm not trying to push an agenda---I just have moved cross-country with high school aged kids. It's not something that was on my radar until I heard about it here, and checked with the district we were moving into. 

[scholastica]

5 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

No, I am definitely NOT prepared to do life on my own with four children logistically or financially.  If he wants to be divorced from me, he can take those steps.  And if he does - I think he would come to find doing life on his own, even part of the time, with four children would also be difficult for him.  I have a master's degree, graduate certificate, and real estate license, but I haven't worked in a very long time.  I don't think I'd be leaving a marriage with very much in the end, but I would cope with whatever I had to cope with---it wouldn't be a shock to me to end up in that situation. 

 

For now, that is it: if I am not consulted or even asked, I am not doing it.  The cousin vs. funeral thing is just ridiculous in my mind.  

He's definitely someone who has always put his family first and their feelings above me with a ton of gaslighting.  Because my own family situation was broken, I think he thought he found someone who would be happy in this scenario.  The kids can go on the family trip this winter, but I do think I will stay home with the dog.  It's always it might be his mom's last this or that.  I've been hearing that for years.  I am 42 and am paralyzed in my marriage because his family.

 

Actually, you are paralyzed because of your dh. He chooses this. He directs this. He doesn’t respect you or care about your needs. This is a husband problem, not a family/in-laws problem. He chooses to stay enmeshed. He has no reason to change the dynamic and will fight it because it’s working for him. Anything you do to change the dynamic, expect pushback. Stand your ground, patiently and kindly, once you have set your boundary. You will have to repeat yourself many, many times. For example, “I will be spending our daughter’s birthday celebrating her. I will not have time to spend with your cousin. I’m sorry. I know it’s important to you, but our daughter is more important to me than your cousin. If it’s important to you that someone from our family spend time with her, then you should stay home from hunting since I have a conflict.” If he goes off on the grocery tangent, “I understand. I will not complain about the grocery bill. I appreciate that you supplement our food bill with hunting. Since your mother is on precarious health, and you want to spend time with your cousin, I understand that there will be less meat from hunting this year.” If he threatens about your dad’s funeral, “That’s very hurtful and it will take time for me to forgive you, but I understand that you can make that choice” and on and on and on. There’s a boundary keeping response for everything he tries to throw at you to try to get his own way. This is just a grown man having a temper tantrum so he can have his life the way he wants it all the time. Expect it to get way worse before it gets better. 
 Please do seek counseling so that you can learn techniques that help you set boundaries without stooping to his level.  If you do want to try to save the marriage, search “marriage friendly therapists” on your favorite search engine. There’s a website with a list of therapists for people who want to try to save their marriage. You can totally do this work alone and improve your marriage without him going to counseling with you. Prayers for you as you go forward. You are in a difficult situation.

[saraha]

@Ting Tang I have been almost exactly where you are not that long ago, feel free to pm me if I can be helpful 

[Katy]

I’m going to go against the grain here. Yes, you’re in an abusive relationship. But I wouldn’t go get marital counseling if you’re committed to the idea of waiting until he decides to divorce you.  Because a decent counselor is likely to force a bunch of confrontation in your relationship. And force him to admit he’s being abusive and that if he doesn’t care enough about you that he’s threatening not go to your father’s funeral. IME confronting a man about his terrible behavior rarely results in change or an apology. They’re like toddlers, and with wounded pride they’re more likely to double down than admit fault and change. 

If you do something I’d slowly prepare for independence. Get a job or at least some volunteer experience. Consider putting kids in school. Get money socked away for lawyers and moving costs. 

Another thing you might consider is exposing his behavior. Not in a rude or humiliating way. In an honest way. “No, cousin is not welcome here that day. My dad just passed away, it’s DD’s birthday, and DH has chosen to go hunting instead of being here for me or DD. I do not want to meet or host a stranger at this time.”

Or, “No, I cannot host cousins because I am still grieving my father’s death.”

Or, “No, I will be out of town that weekend for my father’s funeral. As DH has chosen to not attend my father’s funeral, maybe he can host you that day.” 

In other words, don’t be accusatory, but don’t cover up any of the ways he is hurtful, ever. That alone might make his family ask what the hell he is thinking. And if not, that’ll give you additional information. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Marital counseling often gives an abuser more chances to abuse you. Personal counseling gives you an outside perspective and support in decision making. If you have been emotionally abused for a long time, your sense of “normal” may be skewed.

[Faith-manor]

2 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Marital counseling often gives an abuser more chances to abuse you. Personal counseling gives you an outside perspective and support in decision making. If you have been emotionally abused for a long time, your sense of “normal” may be skewed.

Agree with both you and Katy. This is beyond "save the marriage" counseling unless HE wants to change and initiates personal counseling for himself and then marital counseling. Ting needs personal assistance in setting boundaries and making a plan for the future, help seeing herself as worthy of consideration and care. Plans for the future can change IF he puts in the work. But that is really doubtful. Better to plan to be independent.

[Terabith]

I agree that I would absolutely not go to marriage counseling with this man, but I would encourage you to get a counselor, consider putting kids in school, get a job, sock away money.  And I agree with @Katy's wise advice about not covering up his actions, although I'm not sure how much his family would care.  

[marbel]

14 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I agree that I would absolutely not go to marriage counseling with this man, but I would encourage you to get a counselor, consider putting kids in school, get a job, sock away money.  And I agree with @Katy's wise advice about not covering up his actions, although I'm not sure how much his family would care.  

I think it's most likely that his family knows exactly what's going on and they don't care and/or they like it this way. While his behavior is his fault and his to fix, his parents raised him. It's also unlikely that any counselor/therapist is going to make him see the error of his ways. I mean it could happen but he seems pretty entrenched in his behavior and his belief that is is normal. 

[Katy]

22 minutes ago, marbel said:

I think it's most likely that his family knows exactly what's going on and they don't care and/or they like it this way. While his behavior is his fault and his to fix, his parents raised him. It's also unlikely that any counselor/therapist is going to make him see the error of his ways. I mean it could happen but he seems pretty entrenched in his behavior and his belief that is is normal. 

I think he knows it’s not normal but thinks his wife will put up with his abuse. 

[-----]

nm

Edited August 31 by kathyl

[Katy]

Idk, DH is generally lovely but did something extremely self-centered once and his sister lit into him about it. And my ex was abusive, but his family was always on my side. Even years after we broke up. I’m not sure we have enough information to know if his family knows he’s a jerk or not. 

For that matter I can think if a few men I know whose families disowned them after they got divorced and it became really clear how awful they were. 

[Faith-manor]

The simple truth is that his family is reliant on him to continue to work the farm. Because they have this dependency and cannot afford to have him turn on them, they will side with him. I have seen this many times when an adult child works in the family business. My advice to Ting is to do everything possible to distance herself from the inlaws and forge independence, but to not engage in conversation with them about him. 

Before my brother finally set out on his own in an IT career, he worked with my dad in business. My brother was a total letch to his wife, but my father defended his behavior at every disgusting action because he needed the letch to keep working with him. I was the only person in the family who stood up for her, and I paid a major price for doing it. I think in most cases, siblings will not stand for their in law IF the family business is involved.

Ting, you don't owe these people an explanation for why you are taking charge of your life and kids, for choosing a different path. You really don't. The less information passed to them, the less chance they can use anything you have said against you. As much as possible with them, I would run "silent as the grave". Get a counselor and share with that person. That is your safe zone. I would love to see you pick up a new hobby/outlet, a book club, a knitting group, something. It would be so good to have some folks to socialize with that are not linked to him nor necessarily to your kids' extracurricular activities. You have given so much of yourself without refilling your own well. It would be great for you to have something to look forward to each week that is exclusively for your enjoyment and relaxation.

[kbutton]

22 hours ago, Katy said:

Another thing you might consider is exposing his behavior. Not in a rude or humiliating way. In an honest way. “No, cousin is not welcome here that day. My dad just passed away, it’s DD’s birthday, and DH has chosen to go hunting instead of being here for me or DD. I do not want to meet or host a stranger at this time.”

Or, “No, I cannot host cousins because I am still grieving my father’s death.”

Or, “No, I will be out of town that weekend for my father’s funeral. As DH has chosen to not attend my father’s funeral, maybe he can host you that day.” 

In other words, don’t be accusatory, but don’t cover up any of the ways he is hurtful, ever. That alone might make his family ask what the hell he is thinking. And if not, that’ll give you additional information. 

Agree