Encouraging someone to write a will

[JustEm]

How would you convince a loved one to write a will? Especially, knowing you will have to deal with figuring out the estate and funeral arrangements with people who could likely cause issues. Not necessarily anything huge but just stubbornness and selfishness. 

When asked why the person doesn't have a will and doesn't plan on writing one their response is, 'because I don't have anything anyway.'

Which isn't true because the person does own a property and even though it has a mortgage their is certainly equity in it and will be more when they pass away.

We're hoping we don't have to do much convincing once they get done dealing with the estate of their loved one who passed without a will. But we'd like to be prepared for future talks about it.

[Sneezyone]

Here for the tips. I’ve been talking about this for 7+ years with my dad and stepmom (who have real assets), still no will.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Tap]

Offer to have it drafted for them and all they will need to do is sign. 
 

My mom refused to have one even while on hospice level care. I think she was superstitious about signing it. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Tap

[Clarita]

31 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

When asked why the person doesn't have a will and doesn't plan on writing one their response is, 'because I don't have anything anyway.'

Which isn't true because the person does own a property and even though it has a mortgage their is certainly equity in it and will be more when they pass away.

Have you told them this? My mom's parents were superstitious about this and were not compliant in dealing with this sort of thing. Yes, they didn't have much but still it became messy after my grandfather passed away, because my grandmother had no "rights" to the money. She spent his last days asking him to fill out bank paperwork so she can have access to money that she needed and my grandfather wanted her to have to live. (Not the best way to go through your grief.) Then again when my grandmother passed away, her children spent years discovering all the random places she had little bits of money and assets. (Like a security box no one knew about or a checking account everyone forgot existed.) 

I wonder if a real conversation like yes you don't have billions, but even all these small things that you have like a little savings account etc. Ask her what she would like to happen to the house when she passes away split amongst her children, donate to the government, etc. 

The crux of the matter is what do they want to happen to all their "possessions" (no matter how little) after they pass on and is that what is going to happen should they do nothing about it. Otherwise it's not a BTDT for me because my and DH's parents have these affects in order because they have had to deal with their parents estates. Which is just that they understand what is clear for them (in terms of what should happen to their "possessions") at the very least isn't clear to the government, banks, and bureaucracies involved.

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, hjffkj said:

How would you convince a loved one to write a will? Especially, knowing you will have to deal with figuring out the estate and funeral arrangements with people who could likely cause issues. Not necessarily anything huge but just stubbornness and selfishness. 

When asked why the person doesn't have a will and doesn't plan on writing one their response is, 'because I don't have anything anyway.'

Which isn't true because the person does own a property and even though it has a mortgage their is certainly equity in it and will be more when they pass away.

We're hoping we don't have to do much convincing once they get done dealing with the estate of their loved one who passed without a will. But we'd like to be prepared for future talks about it.

My in laws didn’t want to write a will because they thought not having one would keep them from having to pay taxes, and “if you have a will you die”.   I barely got them to sign one before one passed, like within days. I think it was the active end of life looming that finally swayed them, no amount of begging or Logic or research ever helped.    

if they won’t sign a will at least try to get PODs and beneficiary forms on all accounts.  

[Sneezyone]

In my family, my father has made it clear he doesn’t want to leave major assets to her (4) kids, who are local and have received a lot of help over the years, while my stepmom thinks the assets should be distributed evenly across all (10) of their kids despite incarceration and substance abuse issues on that side. It’s a mess. I wish they hadn’t commingled their finances.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Alte Veste Academy]

1 hour ago, hjffkj said:

How would you convince a loved one to write a will? Especially, knowing you will have to deal with figuring out the estate and funeral arrangements with people who could likely cause issues. Not necessarily anything huge but just stubbornness and selfishness. 

When asked why the person doesn't have a will and doesn't plan on writing one their response is, 'because I don't have anything anyway.'

Which isn't true because the person does own a property and even though it has a mortgage their is certainly equity in it and will be more when they pass away.

We're hoping we don't have to do much convincing once they get done dealing with the estate of their loved one who passed without a will. But we'd like to be prepared for future talks about it.

As someone who is currently executing my father’s will, I would advise you to tell them in the harshest terms what a gigantic pain in the butt it is to deal with the bureaucratic aftermath of death even with a will. Without one, OMG, I might almost be willing to say I would leave it all to be handled by the state and let the money go into its coffers. I would guilt them hard in this circumstance. I would tell them that it was irresponsible and cruel to expect you to do extra work on top of grieving them just because they don’t want to behave like an adult. What would take them an hour will take you exponentially more time to handle.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I missed that the person was currently dealing with this issue in their own life. Do they not see how much easier it would have been to deal with if a will had been made? Do they want to do the same thing to their kids/significant other that was done to them?

[Not_a_Number]

What I've learned from detective stories is that it's impossible to make someone make a will 😁.

Less flippantly, though, I think people can be superstitious about it and it's best to tread lightly. I'd come at this discussion from the perspective of how a lack of will would affect me and short-circuit discussions about mortality and such. 

[Carrie12345]

I tried “getting” My mom by telling her to think of everything she wished my grandmother had done while still well. I know my mom had a ton to deal with as POA while grandma was sick for many years and passes in 2020.

She still won’t discuss her wishes, let alone tell me if she’s taken any actions.

She makes me insane.

[iamonlyone]

53 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

My in laws didn’t want to write a will because they thought not having one would keep them from having to pay taxes, and “if you have a will you die”.   I barely got them to sign one before one passed, like within days. I think it was the active end of life looming that finally swayed them, no amount of begging or Logic or research ever helped.    

if they won’t sign a will at least try to get PODs and beneficiary forms on all accounts.  

PODs (payable on death) and listed beneficiaries worked really well, in my mom's case. She didn't have a will, but everything seamlessly transferred to my brother and me. She also put our names as co-owners on a checking account so we could pay bills out of that immediately after she passed. So, a will wouldn't be crucial, if your state allows PODs and the person is willing to do the work to add those to everything (cars, house, etc.).

[Heartstrings]

8 minutes ago, iamonlyone said:

PODs (payable on death) and listed beneficiaries worked really well, in my mom's case. She didn't have a will, but everything seamlessly transferred to my brother and me. She also put our names as co-owners on a checking account so we could pay bills out of that immediately after she passed. So, a will wouldn't be crucial, if your state allows PODs and the person is willing to do the work to add those to everything (cars, house, etc.).

Even with a will the accounts that  PODs and clear beneficiaries are so much easier than the ones without.  

[LifeLovePassion]

The only line that made progress for me was reminding them that this sets them up so their wishes will be honored easily. Accounts should have a beneficiary, real estate might be able to have a transfer on death deed (state dependent I'm sure). 

If you are not a cosigner on a bank account, they freeze accounts once the SSN pings as deceased. Then you need to wait until beneficiary info is processed with a death certificate. 

And as a side note, not having a will meant over $7k in attorneys fees to settle things because we didn't want to handle probate and navigate that, it would have been far cheaper to have a will. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by LifeLovePassion

[Ottakee]

Maybe if you tell them if they don’t a lot of what they have will go to lawyers.

I am trying so hard to get my stuff in place so it is very easy.   I have seen when things aren’t.

[Beth S]

I would just laughingly remind them of all the problems the celebrity Prince had, when he died intestate.

Or that Aretha Franklin's handwritten will that was found in the couch was deemed sufficient.

Honestly I would just write something out on a piece of paper & have you both sign it.
If there's NO other will, it's truly better than nothing.

And I would refuse to be the executor......

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Beth S

[LifeLovePassion]

Also, as a PSA...do NOT go to just any old attorney, like your family attorney who handles your self employed taxes annually. My parents went to their tax attorney for a will. There is an outdated clause in wills that says the surviving spouse must live 180 hours past the first person's death otherwise things are handled differently...the attorney wrote days not hours, so we could not even send my dad's estate through probate for 6 months. Thankfully there was enough in joint accounts that my mom did not have any financial difficulties during that time, but all because they didn't want to go to someone else. When we had a will drafted for Mom after Dad passed, the cost was under $400. 

 

Feel free to share any of this as a cautionary tale. It can get super messy, super quickly. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by LifeLovePassion
Forgot the word hours

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Edited September 1 by kathyl

[JustEm]

Thank you all for the comments, suggestions, and stories. I'll show this thread to dh and we'll figure out the right way and time to approach the subject again.

 

[LifeLovePassion]

2 minutes ago, kathyl said:

What kind of attorney is best for getting a will drawn up?  We need to do a current will and we're now in a different state than we were when we had the first one drawn up.  Someone told me that the states don't always cooperate with each other, too.  

Also, we don't have much at all.  I just want to make sure everything is really clear so our dc have as few problems as possible.

An estate attorney is who we used. They worked with seniors and even visited mom in her assisted living facility. 

[Bootsie]

Dying without a will is not necessarily problematic; it really depends upon the state you are in, what the state inheritance laws are, and what your assets are.  My father died without a will and it wasn't difficult at all to handle.  

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Edited September 1 by kathyl

[Bootsie]

13 minutes ago, kathyl said:

We're in Texas.  Know anything about this state?  Thanks.

My dad was in Louisiana with no minor children and not enough to need to worry about setting up any trust.  Living in Texas, one thing that I know that can come up is if you are married and maintain separate property; the community property laws assume that everything is community property unless it is clearly shown that it was separate property.   

[footballmom]

My dear friend’s MIL passed unexpectedly and unfortunately thought she had everything set up to go to her kids in her will. Except that she had a large sum in her checking account, I can’t remember if it was from an inheritance or a retirement lump sum distribution, and since her new husband was on her checking account, he was able to keep it all. Her children barely got anything and the thing that made my friend so sad is that it wasn’t her MIL’s wishes at all but since the husband was technically able to have the money, he kept it all and cut off all contact with her kids. 

I would probably tell my relative that you want to honor their wishes for everything they do have by having it legally spelled out and you want them to have that peace of mind.

[Scarlett]

11 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

In my family, my father has made it clear he doesn’t want to leave major assets to her (4) kids, who are local and have received a lot of help over the years, while my stepmom thinks the assets should be distributed evenly across all (10) of their kids despite incarceration and substance abuse issues on that side. It’s a mess. I wish they hadn’t commingled their finances.

Yes a mess that will be even messier if your dad doesn’t do a will.  If he dies first she gets everything and his kids could be cut out completely.  

[Scarlett]

My step-sister and I begged for years.  We even had a situation where my step brother lived in a nursing home on the states money. My step sister went through so much red tape to get him qualified.   She explained to her dad what would happen if her brother was left money.  It would kick him out of state care and then as soon as it was gone she would have to go through it all over again.  
Even after their car accident where they both almost died, still no. Then step brother died, and we again explained that now his children would get his share and were they ok with that? And we explained how his children as heirs could cause us a lot of problems in settling things. Still no.

Eventually 2 years after the accident FINALLY they did a trust.  I am trustee. 
 

 

[Bootsie]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Yes a mess that will be even messier if your dad doesn’t do a will.  If he dies first she gets everything and his kids could be cut out completely.  

This is not necessarily the case.  I have lived in states in which his kids would be heirs if he dies without a will.  In some instances, the will actually protects the surviving spouse  so that they can continue to use funds and and make decisions about property.  

[Tiberia]

You can't make people do anything, sadly. But you can refuse to be executor if called upon. 

I am trying to get a very close relative to make a will. They are an otherwise intelligent, savvy person, but they just don't think they need a will, and that inheritance laws will work. This may be true, but what a headache for the relatives who live overseas who will have to figure out the inheritance laws and advocate for themselves, etc. in the US. Trust me, this will not be kind to their closest family members. And I will not do it.

So, my next tactic is going to be explaining what will happen if they don't have a will and have not given last wishes/funeral instructions.

1. Your relatives will need to come to the US and find a lawyer in two different states (assets and property are in both states). This alone would be a daunting task. The state probate judge in the US may not want to deal with your overseas assets, and the overseas judge may not want to deal with US assets, so that will be a big headache for your family. They won't "just inherit" everything. Banks and real estate managers need paperwork and court orders before they can just give a family the assets. 

2. This is what I'll do at your funeral: Cremate you and have a Beatles tribute band play hymns. You don't like that idea? Then tell me what you want! Tell me what you don't want! Tell me anything that will help make this meaningful. If you don't care, then I'll do what I do, or we'll do nothing. 

 

 

 

[EKS]

Does the person have any relatives they dislike that would get a piece of the pie?  If so, point that out to them.

My husband's uncle was too cheap to prepare a will (he could have easily afforded it) and half of his estate went to people he hated.  I'm certain that if he had known what would happen, he would have had a different attitude about the whole will thing.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

This is not necessarily the case.  I have lived in states in which his kids would be heirs if he dies without a will.  In some instances, the will actually protects the surviving spouse  so that they can continue to use funds and and make decisions about property.  

Without a will?

[Bootsie]

26 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Without a will?

Yes, I have lived in states in which if you die without  will, 1/2 of your estate goes to your spouse and 1/2 goes to your children.  If everything in the estate is community property, the 1/2 of the couple's estate would be the surviivng spouses and 1/2 of the remaining half would be the spouse's inheritance.  So, the spouse would have 3/4 of the community property and the children of the deceased would get 1/4.  

[Scarlett]

14 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

Yes, I have lived in states in which if you die without  will, 1/2 of your estate goes to your spouse and 1/2 goes to your children.  If everything in the estate is community property, the 1/2 of the couple's estate would be the surviivng spouses and 1/2 of the remaining half would be the spouse's inheritance.  So, the spouse would have 3/4 of the community property and the children of the deceased would get 1/4.  

Interesting. I haven’t heard ok that. What state is that?

 

Never mind… just discovered OK is that way. 😳

Edited October 3, 2023 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

12 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

Yes, I have lived in states in which if you die without  will, 1/2 of your estate goes to your spouse and 1/2 goes to your children.  If everything in the estate is community property, the 1/2 of the couple's estate would be the surviivng spouses and 1/2 of the remaining half would be the spouse's inheritance.  So, the spouse would have 3/4 of the community property and the children of the deceased would get 1/4.  

Wow, I just checked my state and it is just like you described. 
 

Oklahoma. 

[Spryte]

I know of a state that favors children over spouses. Without a will, 2/3 goes to the children, 1/3 to the spouse. In fact, I know of a case where the child evicted the stepmother from the home she’d lived in for years, so it happens. I have no idea if that state factors stepchildren into the mix — I think likely not.

[Grace Hopper]

19 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Here for the tips. I’ve been talking about this for 7+ years with my dad and stepmom (who have real assets), still no will.

I feel for you. The only way I got this done was by pitching a fit before the remarriage, having grandchildren as bargaining chips, and siblings in equally vocal solidarity. Admittedly not the most mature way of handling things but because my remarrying parent was the one with assets that we could predict would be drained, we fussed enough for them to get both a will and prenup. Both ended up being vital documents in later life. It would have been impossible if we’d not caught on before the wedding - which the new partner then demanded be moved up to a date where/where only one of us (me and sibs) could attend. 
 

DH has only just managed to facilitate this for his folks, after many awkward attempts it finally came down to having to get the paperwork signed before an upcoming neurologist visit would have possibly rendered one of them incapable due to decreased mental capacity (Alzheimer’s). 

I don’t think there’s really a way to make anyone do this before they are ready. But for myself, I’m ready. I won’t leave a mess for my kids to clean up, btdt and it left scars. 
 

 

[Grace Hopper]

2 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Yes, I have lived in states in which if you die without  will, 1/2 of your estate goes to your spouse and 1/2 goes to your children.  If everything in the estate is community property, the 1/2 of the couple's estate would be the surviivng spouses and 1/2 of the remaining half would be the spouse's inheritance.  So, the spouse would have 3/4 of the community property and the children of the deceased would get 1/4.  

Louisiana inheritance laws are based on Napoleonic Code, and that does divide property, at the very least grants a surviving spouse use of property for life. So if the inheritance were split 50% between spouse and kids, the kids couldn’t force a property sale as long as surviving spouse maintains residence. That’s my dated understanding, anyway. It can be very complicated. Other states are also community property states, which would impact estate distribution with no will. 

The first thing is to find out what would happen in one’s particular state if one were to pass intestate. IME its appears the current suggestion is that a will can be simple, and that establishing a trust is recommended. 

[Bootsie]

6 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Wow, I just checked my state and it is just like you described. 
 

Oklahoma. 

I know of a case in Oklahoma where the second wife encouraged her husband to make a will, knowing that without the will his children would inherit some but with a will he could leave most things to her and leave his children with nothing.  So wills are not necessarily about ensuring the kids get something; sometimes they are used to make sure new spouse gets eveything.  

[Sneezyone]

13 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Yes a mess that will be even messier if your dad doesn’t do a will.  If he dies first she gets everything and his kids could be cut out completely.  

ESPECIALLY IN CA!! *INSERT UNPRINTABLE DIATRIBE HERE*

[Sneezyone]

7 hours ago, Grace Hopper said:

I feel for you. The only way I got this done was by pitching a fit before the remarriage, having grandchildren as bargaining chips, and siblings in equally vocal solidarity. Admittedly not the most mature way of handling things but because my remarrying parent was the one with assets that we could predict would be drained, we fussed enough for them to get both a will and prenup. Both ended up being vital documents in later life. It would have been impossible if we’d not caught on before the wedding - which the new partner then demanded be moved up to a date where/where only one of us (me and sibs) could attend. 
 

DH has only just managed to facilitate this for his folks, after many awkward attempts it finally came down to having to get the paperwork signed before an upcoming neurologist visit would have possibly rendered one of them incapable due to decreased mental capacity (Alzheimer’s). 

I don’t think there’s really a way to make anyone do this before they are ready. But for myself, I’m ready. I won’t leave a mess for my kids to clean up, btdt and it left scars. 
 

 

MY sibs all agree. It's my stepmom's kids who won't b/c 'need'. I've watched these folks go in and out of the pen while DH and I struggled. To this point, I've been nice and neutral but I'm about to get less so. My stepmom (a lovely person) needs to see reason WRT her kids and set some limits not just for me/my kids/ALL the grandkids but her own.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

10 hours ago, Tiberia said:

You can't make people do anything, sadly. But you can refuse to be executor if called upon. 

I am trying to get a very close relative to make a will. They are an otherwise intelligent, savvy person, but they just don't think they need a will, and that inheritance laws will work. This may be true, but what a headache for the relatives who live overseas who will have to figure out the inheritance laws and advocate for themselves, etc. in the US. Trust me, this will not be kind to their closest family members. And I will not do it.

So, my next tactic is going to be explaining what will happen if they don't have a will and have not given last wishes/funeral instructions.

1. Your relatives will need to come to the US and find a lawyer in two different states (assets and property are in both states). This alone would be a daunting task. The state probate judge in the US may not want to deal with your overseas assets, and the overseas judge may not want to deal with US assets, so that will be a big headache for your family. They won't "just inherit" everything. Banks and real estate managers need paperwork and court orders before they can just give a family the assets. 

2. This is what I'll do at your funeral: Cremate you and have a Beatles tribute band play hymns. You don't like that idea? Then tell me what you want! Tell me what you don't want! Tell me anything that will help make this meaningful. If you don't care, then I'll do what I do, or we'll do nothing. 

You've given me hope. I can REFUSE the executor role. Dad needs to get off the stick before it's too late. He tells everyone he doesn't want an equal distribution but his memory is failing and he needs to put SOMETHING in writing before folks can start contesting his competence. 

[Grace Hopper]

24 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

You've given me hope. I can REFUSE the executor role. Dad needs to get off the stick before it's too late. He tells everyone he doesn't want an equal distribution but his memory is failing and he needs to put SOMETHING in writing before folks can start contesting his competence. 

This is such an important point. An attorney cannot ethically allow a cognitively impaired person to sign these sorts of things. I mean it happens, but it’s a mess when an attorney or notary refuses to render a service upon realizing an incompetent client has been brought to them. That’s why things like POAs should be done years before folks think they’re necessary. A lot of people wait until they actually need to put one to use but by then it’s often to late to make one.