Another would you be upset question?

[Kari C in SC]

Tonight we left our 4 year old with my dh's brother and family. We live next door to them. We ran down the road to Lowes - literally 5 minutes away. When my dh went to pick my ds up, my dh's brother came out of the kitchen and put his hand on dh's chest. He told him to "stop and let him keep Sebastian because they were having a battle of the wills." DS was hysterical at this point, a complete preschooler meltdown. My dh does not like conflict, so he told his brother that at this point he was not going to win the battle. He came home to tell me what was going on. I went over and picked up my son to leave. DH's brother asked me if I was just going to take him when he was having such a tantrum. My answer was yes. He questioned my judgement and I informed him that I had been parenting for 20 years. I took my child home and dealt with his meltdown the way that actual works. The background of what started the conflict was pretty simple. They wanted him to eat meatloaf. He doesn't eat any hamburger at all. He wanted ice cream, they said no. I agree that he shouldn't get his way. I agree that he misbehaved. I don't agree that when we arrive to pick up our child, that we were told to step aside while his uncle dealt with it. I know my child. He is quirky. He will get to the point of hyperventilating and there really is no talking to him. I put him in his bed and tell him I will not deal with him until he can be reasonable. It takes time, but he will come around. This is what I did tonight and then I explained to him that he will not get his way, etc. As we left, my bil told him he could not come back there. This is awkward because we live next door. I did not go over to talk to him because I didn't want to say somethign that I would regret. To sum it up - I think that if you walk in and your 4 year having a tantrum, the babysitter's should fill you in on the details and then let you deal with your child. I do not think that the parents should be asked to stop and let them take care of it. Am I wrong? Thanks for any insight.

[Peek a Boo]

You are not wrong.

 

I would simply look him in the eye and reply "yes, you are right, maybe he DOESN't need to be over there."

 

Awkward is one thing. Undermining your parental authority is another. I'll take awkward w/ neighbors/family any day of the week over the alternative. Time to establish "I'm the parent" boundaries. I'll bet some of the other posters can add something more eloquent :D Good luck!

[Aggie]

You are right, imo.

 

Personally, that whole scene would make me livid.

 

I don't discount advice from close family or friends, but NO ONE is to stand in the way of a parent and child.

 

FWIW, my 11yo nephew is difficult to have over. He expects certain foods and doesn't eat what I give him. He's also thrown a tantrum, and back-talked, but my sister always disciplines him as she sees fit.

[Snickerdoodle]

I personally think that getting into a battle of wills over food for a child that you are minding is a bit over the top.

 

I do not think you were wrong.

[Danestress]

He wanted ice cream. They said, "no." So it sounds like they already won any battle. He didn't get the ice cream. Did your BIL want him to stay until he admitted they were right? Until he calmed down? What did he want from the boy? Did he still want him to eat the meatloaf?

 

I'd be a bit upset too. I wouldn't appreciate someone telling me when it's okay for me to parent my own child. Your BIL gets to set his own house rules, which he did. You didn't tell him to change the rules. The kid didn't have ice cream. Case closed?

[Julie in CA]

...but is it possible that dh's brother sees you as catering to bad behavior? It seems a little extreme to have come up out of the blue. I'm not making any judgement about whether you really *are* too accommodating of bad behavior, because that's a decision for each family to make on it's own, just trying to understand why this would happen so abruptly with someone you must have thought was a reasonable caretaker.

 

I would have certainly taken my son home immediately. I would also have apologized to dh's brother *profusely* for my child's bad behavior, and reassured him that we *would* deal with it appropriately at home. No need to define what "appropriately" would mean to you. ;)

[Nicole M]

Totally agreeing with the others.

 

Here's the thing. When I'm taking care of someone else's child, I think of my job as being keep the child alive until the parent gets back to be the parent. I would not allow the child to behave badly, abuse me or other children present, but with a 4 year old, really, not my job to make him eat meatloaf. Cripes. I hate meatloaf and wouldn't make a dog eat it, but that's me. In fact, if the parents are only out for a brief errand, I wouldn't even consider it my job to feed the little blighter. I would ask myself, will this child suffer or starve while parent is away? If the answer is yes, then I rustle up a kid-friendly piece of toast with honey or whatever. If the answer is no, and we happen to be eating something the child does not want, then I let him go wait until parents return to feed him.

 

If it were me, I would approach the in-laws in a friendly way, and say, hey, when I asked you to watch junior, I didn't really mean to put you in a spot where you felt you had to do major parenting. Really, just wanted you to keep him breathing while we were gone. Please, let us do the parenting.

 

Though, yes, I would be pretty honked off in your situation. I probably would not leave my kid with them again until they came around.

 

I'm sorry this happened.

[Nicole M]

I would also have apologized to dh's brother *profusely* for my child's bad behavior, and reassured him that we *would* deal with it appropriately at home. No need to define what "appropriately" would mean to you. ;)

 

If the BIL provoked the child, I would not apologize. Not sure of the whole situation, but it sounds like that might have been the case.

[3lilreds in NC]

Wow.

 

I'm sure I've been that overbearing with other people's children. I'd like to say "I WOULD NEVER" but that would be a lie. However, I can usually tell when I've been a schmuck and I try to apologize.

 

I have a neighbor child who doesn't eat much that I have to offer. It used to drive me crazy, but I decided that since she's not my child, it's not my battle to fight. If she doesn't want what we have, she doesn't have to eat at my house.

 

I would be VERY upset if any of my siblings or my dh's brother/SIL tried to keep my child from me because *they* were trying to play parent. I know how frustrating it is when child overreacts, but COME ON. Let's consider the age of the child, for Pete's sake.

 

I'm sorry your BIL said your son couldn't come over anymore. I agree with Peek, though, that if he can't handle a temper tantrum, perhaps your son doesn't need to go over there anyway. I think once he calms down, he may revise his position. Let's hope so. It was obviously no fun for anyone involved tonight, and that's tough.

[joannqn]

I think you were right to take your child home. I would go further and not trust them with my child again.

 

I had a problem with a much smaller issue with one of mine and I never let that person watch my child again. The issue? My daughter (age approximately 2) was telling the walls and ceiling how hungry she was. Because she didn't directly ask for food, the babysitter refused to feed her. She wanted my 2 year old to ask her directly for food but never bothered to approach my child to ask if she was hungry and wanted to eat. She told me all this as a cute little story. I didn't find it cute.

 

On the other hand, I have a friend who I trust completely but doesn't ever give in. One time the same daughter told her, "Well, my mom lets me...". She answered, "I'm not your mom, am I?" That was fine with me. It was a question on what was being offered to drink with lunch.

 

But upsetting a child to meltdown stage over something so trivial...no way. Telling the parent to stay out of it rather than letting them deal with it...definitely not.

[Julie in CA]

If the BIL provoked the child, I would not apologize. Not sure of the whole situation, but it sounds like that might have been the case.

Provoked or not, if my kid behaved badly(and most 4yo's would, in that situation), I'd apologize for their behavior.

[fshinkevich]

I think you were absolutely right in how you handled the situation. I think your BIL was over dramatic in stating your son could not go there anymore - that sounds very hurtful, and I hope he apologizes.

 

And I think your son is right too, I would much rather have ice cream than hamburger.

[SonshineLearner]

Too bad our kids can't be friends! My son would die rather than eat meatloaf. My mom tried to make sure that she set my son up to eat....here's a (....can't remember what)....eat it and you get dessert. He chose not to eat at all...Even that perturbed me. I mean..since when does someone else decides what your child eats????

 

Crazy!!

Carrie:-)

[snickelfritz]

Others have said everything I wanted to say, but another vote for ticked at the bil.

[Zelda]

The BIL's reaction to the whole thing, "He can't come here anymore", is the most important part here, for me. It points to a rather explosive and controlling reaction to rather ordinary toddler behavior. Even if he is unfamiliar with the way children act you would think some leeway would be given for a nephew who lives next door. Something a few steps before banishment.

[The Governess]

To sum it up - I think that if you walk in and your 4 year having a tantrum, the babysitter's should fill you in on the details and then let you deal with your child.

 

I completely agree with you.

[Kris]

I couldn't figure out why this whole thing sounded so familiar. Your BIL sounds just like my brother -- exactly. He would -- and has -- done the same kinds of things to his *own* kids, and wouldn't hesitate to try to take control of the parenting of someone else's child.

 

Yes, I'd be upset, and it sounds like you handled it pretty well, actually!

 

I'm really curious, though, and I've been editing and messing with this question for a long time, trying to figure out how to frame it. Because in *no* way am I second-guessing your decision to take your son over there while you ran an errand -- and no matter how I write it, it's probably going to come across that way. But you live next door to each other -- has he not had much contact with your son? His reaction -- saying you can't take him home right now, and then he can't go over there anymore -- just seems so strange if you guys live next door and would have, I'm thinking, a better relationship than that. I'm just curious and it just seems so odd that your BIL would do something like that. I'd find it very confusing!

[Peela]

Tonight we left our 4 year old with my dh's brother and family. We live next door to them. We ran down the road to Lowes - literally 5 minutes away. When my dh went to pick my ds up, my dh's brother came out of the kitchen and put his hand on dh's chest. He told him to "stop and let him keep Sebastian because they were having a battle of the wills." DS was hysterical at this point, a complete preschooler meltdown. My dh does not like conflict, so he told his brother that at this point he was not going to win the battle. He came home to tell me what was going on. I went over and picked up my son to leave. DH's brother asked me if I was just going to take him when he was having such a tantrum. My answer was yes. He questioned my judgement and I informed him that I had been parenting for 20 years. I took my child home and dealt with his meltdown the way that actual works. The background of what started the conflict was pretty simple. They wanted him to eat meatloaf. He doesn't eat any hamburger at all. He wanted ice cream, they said no. I agree that he shouldn't get his way. I agree that he misbehaved. I don't agree that when we arrive to pick up our child, that we were told to step aside while his uncle dealt with it. I know my child. He is quirky. He will get to the point of hyperventilating and there really is no talking to him. I put him in his bed and tell him I will not deal with him until he can be reasonable. It takes time, but he will come around. This is what I did tonight and then I explained to him that he will not get his way, etc. As we left, my bil told him he could not come back there. This is awkward because we live next door. I did not go over to talk to him because I didn't want to say somethign that I would regret. To sum it up - I think that if you walk in and your 4 year having a tantrum, the babysitter's should fill you in on the details and then let you deal with your child. I do not think that the parents should be asked to stop and let them take care of it. Am I wrong? Thanks for any insight.

 

I would be upset but there must be more to the story- and obviously you are not going to write pages here to explain the background when you want perspective on one incident- but the previous relationship with the BIL would certainly shed light- perhaps he sees you as overall too lenient with your son or your children? He may not handle tantrums well- and/or he may not think you handle them well.

One incident can be taken out of context, or without context, and it might be possible to see the situation from a light which sheds compassion on the BIL's perspective as well.

 

A while back my mother spent a week babysitting 3 of my brother's kids while he and his wife went for a business trip with the baby- the oldest child being quite a challenge since birth and now a feisty 12 or 13yo. I know the story from both my mother's perspective, and my brother and his wife's perspective- and my mother felt terribly invalidated in her dealing with her grandson's behaviour, when by phone the parents supported their child over my mother. I think it was an incident where he misbehaved, she withdrew a privilege, the parents decided over the phone she was being too hard, she felt they should have validated her in the circumstances since she is not generally a strict and hard woman and she was looking after the kids for a week and needed back up from the parents since the oldest child was being very difficult (and he can be VERY difficult), not complete undermining. From their perspective, they "knew" their quirky son and decided their way worked better and they supported him literally against her. From my mother's perspective, and she is not a controlling or interfering mother by any means, she was treated very badly and disrespectfully and it hurt her enough that it was a good year before she was willing to babysit again.

Anyway, the point being, there are always two sides to a story and I just wonder what is going on in your BIL's mind. Understanding his perspective better may help build a bridge of understanding- obviously he felt hurt too, whether unreasonably or not.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Peela

[elegantlion]

The BIL's reaction to the whole thing, "He can't come here anymore", is the most important part here, for me. It points to a rather explosive and controlling reaction to rather ordinary toddler behavior. Even if he is unfamiliar with the way children act you would think some leeway would be given for a nephew who lives next door. Something a few steps before banishment.

 

:iagree:

 

By the end of the post I was confused as to WHO was having the tantrum, the child or the BIL. :glare:

 

Does your BIL even have children? For what it's worth I don't like to eat anything with hamburger in it either. :grouphug:

 

You're the parent, not BIL, I think you did the right thing.

[Trivium Academy]

my bil told him he could not come back there.

 

Sounds like BIL had his own little tantrum about not getting his way. Goodness, this is a 4 year old and the tiff was about food?!? Whatever the underlining issue is, it sure isn't the your 4yo. I'm sorry this happened just before Christmas, I pray there is healing for everyone.

 

You're not in the wrong from taking care of your own child but there are unresolved issues here. :grouphug:

[Pamela H in Texas]

I would have taken son home. I later would explain to uncle that I am the parent and will handle things the best I see fit that I need a caregiver to simply fill me in so I can discipline effectively, but not try to take over my role. I would also say that 4yo would be coming over shortly to apologize and I would appreciate if he'd be friendly about that whether he agrees or not.

[Kari C in SC]

I'm really curious, though, and I've been editing and messing with this question for a long time, trying to figure out how to frame it. Because in *no* way am I second-guessing your decision to take your son over there while you ran an errand -- and no matter how I write it, it's probably going to come across that way. But you live next door to each other -- has he not had much contact with your son? His reaction -- saying you can't take him home right now, and then he can't go over there anymore -- just seems so strange if you guys live next door and would have, I'm thinking, a better relationship than that. I'm just curious and it just seems so odd that your BIL would do something like that. I'd find it very confusing!

 

Actually, I completely understand why you are confused. We do live next door and you would think I would have left him there lots of times. Here is a short story to sorta explain it. I chose this house because my sil passed away 5 years ago. She was my best friend. I felt like I was sent here to live near her children. I did not have much of a relationship with her dh before she died. My dh is not super close with his family, but moved here because of what I wanted. I do not agree with many of my bil parenting choices. He is remarried and I don't really know her all that well. If my sil were alive, none of this would have happened... but she isn't. I have purposely chosen not to use them as babysitters because I know that my ds has meltdowns. My belief is to put him in a time out until he cools down and then we discuss it. My bil belief is to keep him in a chair and keep talking to him until he gets the last word. I do get the last word, just when ds has calmed down to listen. I am not even angry that he has a different method than me. I am angry because when we arrive, their job is done. I am angry because I told my sil to just call if there was a meltdown and we would head back. We were 5 minutes away. I knew a meltdown was possible because he had been playing with another family friend that is 4 - all day. They were both over there. When either of them get together all day, they get tired and the meltdowns happen. I specifically talked to my sil about it and she said she would call if anything happened. Ugh! I am so frustrated and we are supposed to go to a birthday party over there tonight. Thanks for listening to me!

[Nicole M]

Oh, Kari. I'm so sorry about the loss of your SIL.

 

You are totally justified in feeling frustrated and angry. I have a friend who uses the same tactic with his children, that talking thing, and it is so frustrating to watch. It definitely would not work with my kids (and really, it does not appear to be working with his, but, hey, he's the parent).

 

Perhaps with the loss of his wife, your BIL feels the need to control what he can? Way out on a limb here, but your original description sounds like a hurting man, that he would need to have that much control over a 4 yo.

 

Good luck tonight at the party.

[Mad Jenny Flint]

where I could have been in either one of your shoes at some point in my life. I think grace and forgiveness are called for, from both of you- but since you are only you and not him, just forgive his lack of good judgment and do what you feel is necessary to protect your child from further incident.

 

Best wishes to you as you navigate this situation and the relationship with your BIL.

[Kris]

Actually, I completely understand why you are confused. We do live next door and you would think I would have left him there lots of times. Here is a short story to sorta explain it. I chose this house because my sil passed away 5 years ago. She was my best friend. I felt like I was sent here to live near her children. I did not have much of a relationship with her dh before she died. My dh is not super close with his family, but moved here because of what I wanted. I do not agree with many of my bil parenting choices. He is remarried and I don't really know her all that well. If my sil were alive, none of this would have happened... but she isn't. I have purposely chosen not to use them as babysitters because I know that my ds has meltdowns. My belief is to put him in a time out until he cools down and then we discuss it. My bil belief is to keep him in a chair and keep talking to him until he gets the last word. I do get the last word, just when ds has calmed down to listen. I am not even angry that he has a different method than me. I am angry because when we arrive, their job is done. I am angry because I told my sil to just call if there was a meltdown and we would head back. We were 5 minutes away. I knew a meltdown was possible because he had been playing with another family friend that is 4 - all day. They were both over there. When either of them get together all day, they get tired and the meltdowns happen. I specifically talked to my sil about it and she said she would call if anything happened. Ugh! I am so frustrated and we are supposed to go to a birthday party over there tonight. Thanks for listening to me!

 

Thank you, Kari, for figuring out what I was trying to say, for taking my question as it was intended, and for taking the time to try to explain it. That must have been pretty hard to do!

 

I understood why you were upset before, and even more now, now that you've mentioned that you "covered all the bases" and *that* didn't work, either! How frustrating! You are absolutely right -- once you arrived, their job was finished and it's too bad it got to that point in the first place, considering you had specifically asked them to call you if there was a problem!

 

I'm really sorry you and your family are having to go through this -- especially now.

 

:grouphug:

[Erica in PA]

I probably would have apologized profusely to my bil first thing. If my four year old child threw a temper tantrum while being cared for by a family member, I would be very apologetic, and seek to restore the relationship right away. I think others here are being hard on your bil. It sounds to me that your bil wanted some resolution with the child... that he didn't want him to just leave without things being resolved. As an uncle, especially one living right next door, I do think he should be viewed by his nephew as an authority figure. (You described him as a "babysitter" in your post... I would think he would be more than that.) In a way, it seems to me that you sort of left your bil high and dry, taking your ds home without resolving the issue, and without requiring your ds to honor his uncle's authority.

 

It doesn't sound as though your bil handled things perfectly either, but I would want to teach my children to honor their adult relatives, and taking him home to bed without another word to his uncle may not have been the best way to accomplish that. Just my two cents!

[Peek a Boo]

Totally agreeing with the others.

 

Here's the thing. When I'm taking care of someone else's child, I think of my job as being keep the child alive until the parent gets back to be the parent. I would not allow the child to behave badly, abuse me or other children present, but with a 4 year old, really, not my job to make him eat meatloaf. Cripes. I hate meatloaf and wouldn't make a dog eat it, but that's me. In fact, if the parents are only out for a brief errand, I wouldn't even consider it my job to feed the little blighter. I would ask myself, will this child suffer or starve while parent is away? If the answer is yes, then I rustle up a kid-friendly piece of toast with honey or whatever. If the answer is no, and we happen to be eating something the child does not want, then I let him go wait until parents return to feed him.

 

If it were me, I would approach the in-laws in a friendly way, and say, hey, when I asked you to watch junior, I didn't really mean to put you in a spot where you felt you had to do major parenting. Really, just wanted you to keep him breathing while we were gone. Please, let us do the parenting.

 

Though, yes, I would be pretty honked off in your situation. I probably would not leave my kid with them again until they came around.

 

I'm sorry this happened.

 

:iagree:

 

where's the rep button when i need it? :D

LOL!

I think i would use this script exactly!

[Harriet Vane]

It sounds like bil is confused about boundaries. You are the parent. Period. And yes, as others have said, when you pick up your child you are now in control. He was out of line to insist on keeping your ds until he felt it appropriate to release him--he does not and should not have that authority over your son.

 

I would never, ever, ever leave my child with ANYONE in such a state (other than my dh). There are always two sides to the story, and I would never automatically trust after hearing only one side. On the one hand, if my child truly is the one misbehaving, then I as the parent will determine that and coach my child through apologizing and making any necessary restitution.

 

On the other hand, what if the situation is unfair in some way to my child? What if something happened to upset my child that the babysitter does not understand? What if, God forbid, the babysitter did something to my child? If I were to leave my child in that person's hands without making any attempts to understand the situation--I have then left my child defenseless.

 

I think it appropriate to make some sort of restitution for the disobedience, whether that be your apology or ds' apology. However, I would also make it crystal clear that (1) you had specified exactly what was to happen if there was a meltdown, and they did not respect your wishes as the parent; and (2) you are the parent, and you are in charge at all times and especially when you arrive to pick up your son. Period.

 

Having said all that, I am speechless at your bil's choices in this matter. I think he has behaved badly from start to finish. Personally, I would take this as an indication that he is not to be trusted as a babysitter.

[melissel]

My blood pressure has risen about 20 points just reading this thread. Even my own mother knows not to get between me and my child in distress, no matter who is "right" in the situation.

 

I probably would have apologized profusely to my bil first thing. If my four year old child threw a temper tantrum while being cared for by a family member, I would be very apologetic, and seek to restore the relationship right away. I think others here are being hard on your bil. It sounds to me that your bil wanted some resolution with the child... that he didn't want him to just leave without things being resolved. As an uncle, especially one living right next door, I do think he should be viewed by his nephew as an authority figure. (You described him as a "babysitter" in your post... I would think he would be more than that.) In a way, it seems to me that you sort of left your bil high and dry, taking your ds home without resolving the issue, and without requiring your ds to honor his uncle's authority.

 

In a million years, you could not get me to apologize to someone who tried to parent my child right over my head. As a previous poster said, the battle of wills WAS resolved--the child didn't eat the meatloaf and he didn't get the ice cream. What more was there left to do? We're talking about a tired, hungry four-year-old, at a relatively unfamiliar house, without his own parents for comfort and guidance. Instead of authority, where was this man's compassion?

 

It sounds like bil is confused about boundaries. You are the parent. Period. And yes, as others have said, when you pick up your child you are now in control. He was out of line to insist on keeping your ds until he felt it appropriate to release him--he does not and should not have that authority over your son.

 

I would never, ever, ever leave my child with ANYONE in such a state (other than my dh). There are always two sides to the story, and I would never automatically trust after hearing only one side. On the one hand, if my child truly is the one misbehaving, then I as the parent will determine that and coach my child through apologizing and making any necessary restitution.

 

On the other hand, what if the situation is unfair in some way to my child? What if something happened to upset my child that the babysitter does not understand? What if, God forbid, the babysitter did something to my child? If I were to leave my child in that person's hands without making any attempts to understand the situation--I have then left my child defenseless.

 

I think it appropriate to make some sort of restitution for the disobedience, whether that be your apology or ds' apology. However, I would also make it crystal clear that (1) you had specified exactly what was to happen if there was a meltdown, and they did not respect your wishes as the parent; and (2) you are the parent, and you are in charge at all times and especially when you arrive to pick up your son. Period.

 

Having said all that, I am speechless at your bil's choices in this matter. I think he has behaved badly from start to finish. Personally, I would take this as an indication that he is not to be trusted as a babysitter.

 

:iagree: Nicely said. Though frankly, I would find it very difficult to bring myself to even speak to DBIL after this incident. My mama bear instincts run very high.

[HRAAB]

You're the parent; no-one has the right to overstep your authority in how you see fit to deal with your son's meltdown. I would apologize for my child's behavior, then pick him up and leave. Once you walked in the door, bil needed to back off.

 

I took care of my nephew for a couple of days. This kid would not eat anything except plain cheese pizza from Round Table, hot dogs and crackers and peanut butter. I kid you not. Other than eating dinner at Round Table one night, he ate peanut butter crackers and hot dogs (til I ran out) until my sister came to get him. I didn't feel it was my job to try to undo what my sister had done, plus it wouldn't have worked, and a couple days of peanut butter wasn't going to kill him if he was still alive. I returned him to her in one piece - although I probably won't volunteer to keep him that long again!

 

Janet