NICU nurse adopts mom of triplets

[Katy]

I’m wrong, all 4 were in foster care & the nurse adopted them all per this: https://notthebee.com/article/this-nicu-nurse-adopted-preemie-triplets-and-their-teen-mom-so-that-their-family-could-stay-together

[WildflowerMom]

I think this is a case of 'it takes a village' and thankfully, the teen mom found her village.   

[Corraleno]

There are a million articles about this story and most of them say she adopted the mom so that the family could stay together. The GoFundMe refers to "my adopted daughter Shariya Small and her now 2 year old triplets."

I think the articles claiming she adopted the babies are incorrect and just confused "took all 4 in" with "adopted all 4."

Edited March 23, 2023 by Corraleno

[TechWife]

Just now, gardenmom5 said:

sometimes yes, and sometimes no.

we don't know why ONE was readmiltted but not the others.  
even with responsible and competent adults - a preterm infant can end up needing to be readmitted.   

I volunteer in a Children’s hospital. I’m aware of the many reasons children, including infants, are admitted to hospitals. 

[Corraleno]

This article includes current photos of the family and repeatedly refers to refers to the triplets as Shariya's children, and refers to Katrina as Shariya's mother and the triplets' grandmother. 

[gardenmom5]

2 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I volunteer in a Children’s hospital. I’m aware of the many reasons children, including infants, are admitted to hospitals. 

Then you should be aware they are many reasons - and we don't know why one of the triplets was readmitted.  Yet  you continue to imply it was "someone else's behavior" that caused the triplet to be readmitted.

[TechWife]

3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

This article includes current photos of the family and repeatedly refers to refers to the triplets as Shariya's children, and refers to Katrina as Shariya's mother and the triplets' grandmother. 

The article you linked also includes the following statements: 

“2 1/2, one of the adoptive triplets” 

“is a child of Katrina Mullen, who adopted a young mother and her three triplets.”

 

[TechWife]

3 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

Then you should be aware they are many reasons - and we don't know why one of the triplets was readmitted.  Yet  you continue to imply it was "someone else's behavior" that caused the triplet to be readmitted.

No, actually I don’t imply it. I simply say it’s a possibility, because it is. 

[TechWife]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

One of the more common foster situations are teenagers, many of whom got thrown out for getting pregnant or being gay. The nurse didn’t cross any ethical boundaries, but there are plenty of problems with paternalistic laws that blame teens for getting into this position and provide no support when they do. 

She crossed many ethical boundaries.

[Corraleno]

1 minute ago, TechWife said:

The article you linked also includes the following statements: 

“2 1/2, one of the adoptive triplets” 

“is a child of Katrina Mullen, who adopted a young mother and her three triplets.”

 

I think the journalist is being sloppy and means "who adopted a young mother and also (took in) her three triplets." I.e., the nurse could have just adopted the teen and let the babies go into foster care, but she took them all in.

As an adoptive parent, I find that a lot of people use the term "adopted" quite loosely, not necessarily in the legal sense of "Person A went to court and was granted a judgment that they are now the legal parent [not just guardian] of Person B." 

[WildflowerMom]

17 minutes ago, TechWife said:

She crossed many ethical boundaries.

It sounds as though you think the teen mom should've suffered with her lot in life.    If boundaries were broken, maybe those are boundaries that need to be questioned.   

[thatfirstsip]

2 hours ago, kbutton said:

I knew several pregnant 14 year olds when I was 14. I can’t imagine why CPS should’ve been called—teens get pregnant all the time via consensual sex. DH had a coworker whose teen boys both fathered babies by age 14. All of the girls I knew finished high school (one moved to another district and had more children by graduation). At least one is married to the boyfriend she was with when she got pregnant (seems to be very happy—she had a definite choice in that). 

I do think it’s tragic that we don’t recognize that teen parents need additional support. All moms should get some nursing support after going home, teen moms doubly so.

 

Teenagers can have consensual sex. 14 year old teenagers (and 13yo teenagers, if she was 13 when she became pregnant) cannot. 

[Corraleno]

I can't see the actual article in USA Today because it's paywalled, but this blurb says she fostered the teen for nearly 2 years and was able to adopt her last month.

(And there's yet another example of sloppy journalism: saying Katrina became "a foster mother and grandmother" on the day of the adoption. No, on the day of adoption she stopped being Shariya's foster mother and became her mother, and grandmother to Shariya's children.)

 

[TechWife]

13 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

It sounds as though you think the teen mom should've suffered with her lot in life.    If boundaries were broken, maybe those are boundaries that need to be questioned.   

Your assessment of what I think is incorrect. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

Another article + pictures of the now 2 1/2 year olds… maybe TPR did happen. 
 

https://www.indystar.com/picture-gallery/news/2023/03/07/indianapolis-nurse-katrina-mullen-cared-for-preemie-triplets-adopts-teen-mother-shariya-small/11367265002/

Do you think they are just saying she adopted them all because she’s caring for them all but really she only legally adopted the mom? They refer to the triplets as belonging to the girl in all captions and they call the nurse the adoptive grandma? 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Wheres Toto said:

I don't think 14 year olds having babies is something we should just look at as another choice that is equally desirable/viable as having babies as an adult.  

I don’t either. That doesn’t mean it’s uncommon or that CPS should be called, which is what I was responding to. 

[Eos]

4 hours ago, bolt. said:

That's really a very strange story. Is it from a developed country? It says Indiana -- but can that really be true? Why aren't there any social services available? Where is the social worker who should have been following and facilitating the whole pregnancy? Where and with whom does this girl live? How does she have a home at all -- does she work? Why isn't she in school? Why would there be no childcare or accommodations available for a parent with a child in hospital? Why is foster care a terrifying prospect? Why wouldn't the teen-headed family be cared for as a unit? Have charges been laid against the male progenitor of these babies? Or is he a child too?

And the only solution for a teen pregnancy is that in her whole horrible saga, this girl was lucky enough to have glancing contact with a single individual person -- somewhat who was willing and able to take on the total cost, burden, housing, and care of four extra people as their own personal choice? And the only reason why this is a compelling story is because the teen had a multiple pregnancy -- what happens to 13yos raising just one baby? Do healthcare professionals regularly adopt them too? Where is society???

All this, plus in most states 14 is below the age of consent.

 

2 hours ago, kbutton said:

I can’t imagine why CPS should’ve been called

Because the "teen mom" was under Indiana's age of 16 for lawful sexual contact.

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Eos

[kbutton]

Just now, Eos said:

 

Because the "teen mom" was under Indiana's age of 16 for lawful sexual contact.

I thought age of consent applied only if an adult was involved, TBH. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

 

1 minute ago, kbutton said:

I thought age of consent applied only if an adult was involved, TBH. 

I think it does too?? ETA: I mean, I think you’re right. It wouldn’t apply if both teens were, say, 14?

Edited March 24, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e

[WildflowerMom]

I think some of what y'all are asking is probably not public knowledge.  Mom's a minor.  Kids are minors.      

[Eos]

1 minute ago, kbutton said:

I thought age of consent applied only if an adult was involved, TBH. 

Oh no, I hope you're not saying it's ok for the woman to be 14 if the male is too?  

[Ann.without.an.e]

6 minutes ago, Eos said:

Oh no, I hope you're not saying it's ok for the woman to be 14 if the male is too?  

I can’t speak for @kbutton 

I personally don't think it’s ok but it happens and there isn’t anything specifically illegal about it unless the boy is older.

[Eos]

I think this nurse is incredible, generous, loving and that individual solutions to society's problems such as 13 year olds having sex without birth control are bandaids.  Beautiful bandaids, to be sure, but bandaids nonetheless.  

 

[gardenmom5]

53 minutes ago, thatfirstsip said:

Teenagers can have consensual sex. 14 year old teenagers (and 13yo teenagers, if she was 13 when she became pregnant) cannot. 

My understanding is she was 13 when she got pregnant

28 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I thought age of consent applied only if an adult was involved, TBH. 

It's how many years apart.  e.g. in OR it's five years, even if the girl is 12.  If she has sex with a 16 yo, it's considered "consensual".
(I speak from a known case. The male in that case was eventually sentenced to prison for different acts, not the sexual contact with a girl who was less than five years younger than him.)

21 minutes ago, Eos said:

Oh no, I hope you're not saying it's ok for the woman to be 14 if the male is too?  

it's more a commentary on what the courts will do if the male is also 14.  They won't be as hard on a 14 year old boy as they would be on a 21 year old male.

[Ann.without.an.e]

30 minutes ago, Eos said:

Oh no, I hope you're not saying it's ok for the woman to be 14 if the male is too?  

 

8 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

it's more a commentary on what the courts will do if the male is also 14.  They won't be as hard on a 14 year old boy as they would be on a 21 year old male.

They can’t do anything about it, even if they were 12. No, I don’t want 12 or 14 year olds having sex at all tbh. But who do they blame if it was consensual? Why would the boy be blamed and not the girl outside of rape (of course). If one was 13 and the other was 18 then there are laws in place and the 18 year old would take the fall regardless of gender.  

[thatfirstsip]

Of course they wouldn't necessarily pursue the boy legally if he is also 13. That doesn't mean the girl (or the boy!) was able to consent. CPS involvement would be useful because a thirteen year old having sex, regardless of with whom, is always a situation that could use some sort of social support, whether education for the parents, therapeutic and medical services for the child, followup to help prevent further severely underage sex, etc.

[Ann.without.an.e]

1 minute ago, thatfirstsip said:

Of course they wouldn't necessarily pursue the boy legally if he is also 13. That doesn't mean the girl (or the boy!) was able to consent. CPS involvement would be useful because a thirteen year old having sex, regardless of with whom, is always a situation that could use some sort of social support, whether education for the parents, therapeutic and medical services for the child, followup to help prevent further severely underage sex, etc.

I agree. My guess is someone did look into it (at least at the school level?) But if it was consensual and same age or if she was unwilling to say who it was, there is nothing anyone can do. 

[Eos]

3 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

But who do they blame if it was consensual? Why would the boy be blamed and not the girl outside of rape (of course).

"Age of consent" implies that there is an age that is not it. If there can be no consent, there can be no "consensual."

Edited March 24, 2023 by Eos

[thatfirstsip]

Just now, Ann.without.an.e said:

I agree. My guess is someone did look into it (at least at the school level?) But if it was consensual and same age or if she was unwilling to say who it was, there is nothing anyone can do. 

I would guess that in most states, a pregnant 14 year old is an automatic report to CPS by any mandated reporter, but maybe not. 

There's a lot you can do for a pregnant 14-year-old. You don't have to know who the father was to offer services or require parent education or therapy for the child.

[Harriet Vane]

7 minutes ago, thatfirstsip said:

Of course they wouldn't necessarily pursue the boy legally if he is also 13. That doesn't mean the girl (or the boy!) was able to consent. CPS involvement would be useful because a thirteen year old having sex, regardless of with whom, is always a situation that could use some sort of social support, whether education for the parents, therapeutic and medical services for the child, followup to help prevent further severely underage sex, etc.

There is no way at all CPS can get involved simply because teens are sexually active. In many, many cases CPS doesn't get involved even when there is clear abuse. CPS is vastly under-resourced and understaffed. If teens are engaging in risky behavior that is not criminal and there is no obvious evidence of abuse, there is no CPS involvement. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

5 minutes ago, Eos said:

"Age of consent" implies that there is an age that is not it. If there can be no consent, there can be no "consensual."

Right but then that applies to both of them and not automatically the boy. They’ve both broken the law and could be arrested but they won’t be. The idea that some have that only the boy is responsible is silly. We don’t know the circumstances. What if she did the pressuring?

When I was 11 my uncle was fostering an 11 year old girl. She was pregnant. She told me in private that it was her idea and she wanted to have sex and she pursued a 12 year old boy. That was more than I wanted to hear at 11. 

[Harriet Vane]

4 minutes ago, thatfirstsip said:

I would guess that in most states, a pregnant 14 year old is an automatic report to CPS by any mandated reporter, but maybe not. 

There's a lot you can do for a pregnant 14-year-old. You don't have to know who the father was to offer services or require parent education or therapy for the child.

I am a licensed foster parent. I have never heard of this standard at all. The condition of pregnancy is not a trigger for a report. Evidence of abuse IS a trigger for a report. That means abuse I have observed, or marks on the child's body indicative of abuse, or the teen disclosing abuse to me (telling me about it). And the rules around discovering abuse are actually really, really strict--mandated reporters are not supposed to suggest abuse or put words in the child's mouth. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

3 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

I am a licensed foster parent. I have never heard of this standard at all. The condition of pregnancy is not a trigger for a report. Evidence of abuse IS a trigger for a report. That means abuse I have observed, or marks on the child's body indicative of abuse, or the teen disclosing abuse to me (telling me about it). And the rules around discovering abuse are actually really, really strict--mandated reporters are not supposed to suggest abuse or put words in the child's mouth. 

I can’t imagine it went beyond the school level unless there was some sort of evidence of abuse? CPS is swamped they definitely can’t be handed every pregnant teen too. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 

They can’t do anything about it, even if they were 12. No, I don’t want 12 or 14 year olds having sex at all tbh. But who do they blame if it was consensual? Why would the boy be blamed and not the girl outside of rape (of course). If one was 13 and the other was 18 then there are laws in place and the 18 year old would take the fall regardless of gender.  

If there is a minimum five year age difference-  an underage girl can't legally give consent.  Then even if the boy is under 18, he can be charged with rape.

but when they are that close in age - the courts can be less likely to even believe it was rape.  (speak from experience of a friend's daughter.)

[thatfirstsip]

46 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

If there is a minimum five year age difference-  an underage girl can't legally give consent.  Then even if the boy is under 18, he can be charged with rape.

but when they are that close in age - the courts can be less likely to even believe it was rape.  (speak from experience of a friend's daughter.)

This is highly state dependent, but in almost all states, a 13 year old cannot consent at all, even to sex with another 13 year old. It's not that it's rape - if they're both 13, who is raping whom? - but that neither of them are old enough to consent, and when thirteen year olds are having sex, something has gone terribly wrong.

 

It's amazing to me that it's being referred to in this thread as teenage pregnancy, as if a pregnant 17 year old (still too young, imo) and a pregnant 14 year old are the same thing, more or less.

14, sex at 13, is not just teenage pregnancy. It's something much more concerning, which is why in many states it *is* an automatic report, and why imo child and family services should always at least run an evaluation to see if services are possible to help the family, and especially the child(ren). 

 

The idea that a pregnant 14 year old girl is anything but a tragedy is unintelligible to me 

[Carrie12345]

8 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

I am a licensed foster parent. I have never heard of this standard at all. The condition of pregnancy is not a trigger for a report. Evidence of abuse IS a trigger for a report. That means abuse I have observed, or marks on the child's body indicative of abuse, or the teen disclosing abuse to me (telling me about it). And the rules around discovering abuse are actually really, really strict--mandated reporters are not supposed to suggest abuse or put words in the child's mouth. 

I don’t know about all states, but neglect is a reportable issue in my state, and I think at least most. Neglect doesn’t have to leave physical marks.

I *would like to think* that a school counselor, school social worker, or hospital social worker would notice a 14yo mom to be or new mom of triplets as a human being in need of help, or at least assessment (in any socioeconomic class.) That doesn’t necessarily mean CPS involvement, but can.  
And yes, CPS is a mess. But I’d expect high priority on even in-home case management of medically needy triplets of a child.

None of this means the public is entitled to the details of this family’s story.  It is worthy of thinking about, and figuring out what we think our societal and government organizations should be doing.

[Carrie12345]

Honestly, I was a licensed foster parent for a year even though I didn’t have a placement and I found being a mandated reporter STRESSFUL.  Any minor “off” vibe had me questioning my legal obligations.

[pinball]

16 hours ago, bolt. said:

Of course there is. This is how the USA funds social services. By crowdfunding. I should have known nobody can take on four extra people in their household at the drop of a hat. This is so sad.

What resources would a 13/14 yo Canadian pregnant teen/teen mom of triplets receive?

What resources would a mom whose household increase by 4 children at once receive?

IOW, How would Canada support the people in this situation?

[Ann.without.an.e]

9 hours ago, thatfirstsip said:

This is highly state dependent, but in almost all states, a 13 year old cannot consent at all, even to sex with another 13 year old. It's not that it's rape - if they're both 13, who is raping whom? - but that neither of them are old enough to consent, and when thirteen year olds are having sex, something has gone terribly wrong.

 

It's amazing to me that it's being referred to in this thread as teenage pregnancy, as if a pregnant 17 year old (still too young, imo) and a pregnant 14 year old are the same thing, more or less.

14, sex at 13, is not just teenage pregnancy. It's something much more concerning, which is why in many states it *is* an automatic report, and why imo child and family services should always at least run an evaluation to see if services are possible to help the family, and especially the child(ren). 

 

The idea that a pregnant 14 year old girl is anything but a tragedy is unintelligible to me 

 

I have no idea your age or how connected you are to youth in our current society but  13 year olds are (very unfortunately) having sex. It is tragic and that some get pregnant is a double tragedy. Just a year ago I was teaching 5th graders and sexting is a 4th and 5th grader problem now. 4th and 5th grade girls (and boys) are sending nudes to each other. The amount of sex and sexualization in our media and culture is unreal. 3rd-5th graders are given the whole world in their pocket via smart phones and they are not only accessing it but sending it to each other and encouraging it. Kids who won’t look at porn are even bullied sometimes. I wish I was exaggerating. So with that in mind, a 13 or 14 year old without enough parental supervision could definitely be having sex. It is tragic and it is sad. 
 

ETA: since I’ve already found my soapbox, why not lol. Part of the problem is that too many parents want to be cool and have no idea how to parent or say no. In fact I know kids who are being pushed into this stuff by parents. I had a friend whose 14 year old daughter was invited to her friend’s house and the boy’s mom ushered them to their own space, encouraged them to lock the door, and then the kid had condoms sitting on his dresser (put there by his mom). They were supposed to watch a movie and my friend thought it was a safe space since parents were home. The girl was thankfully in tune and called her mom when the boy wanted to make out. But what if she hadn’t been? Or what if they had been the type of family to allow their kid to feast on sexually charged material? Would the girl have just been primed and ready for such an encounter?

Edited March 24, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e

[denarii]

2 hours ago, pinball said:

What resources would a 13/14 yo Canadian pregnant teen/teen mom of triplets receive?

What resources would a mom whose household increase by 4 children at once receive?

IOW, How would Canada support the people in this situation?

I can't speak to the social supports available for a teen mom as I have never been in that position, but I do know a few of the financial supports available.

A single mom of 3 with zero income could receive approx $27,832.40* and possibly more.

GST/HST credit quarterly amount $290.75

Climate Action Incentive Payment quarterly amount $424.60

Canada child benefit monthly amount $1,859.25

Alberta child and family benefit quarterly amount $665.00

*Some of these supports are provincial and I based my estimate on Alberta. 

Basic health care is covered by the province and access to low/zero cost additional health insurance to cover prescriptions, dental, etc would also be available. 

Eta Some of these benefits start to get clawed back when a family's adjusted annual net income is over $24,000.

Edited March 24, 2023 by denarii

[pinball]

1 minute ago, denarii said:

I can't speak to the social supports available for a teen mom as I have never been in that position, but I do know a few of the financial supports available.

A single mom of 3 with zero income could receive approx $27,832.40* and possibly more.

GST/HST credit quarterly amount $290.75

Climate Action Incentive Payment quarterly amount $424.60

Canada child benefit monthly amount $1,859.25

Alberta child and family benefit quarterly amount $665.00

*Some of these supports are provincial and I based my estimate on Alberta. 

Basic health care is covered by the province and access to low/zero cost additional health insurance to cover prescriptions, dental, etc would also be available. 

Thanks, denarii.

would a minor be prevented from getting these financial supports due to her age? Or are they available to any aged parent?

 

[LucyStoner]

18 hours ago, bolt. said:

Where is society???

Not present.  Absent.  Rationalizing looking away as having good boundaries.  Thinking that social services and society has it taken care of so there’s no need for us as individuals to take any action or do anything to help.  When it’s everyone’s job, it’s really nobody’s job.  

The social services that people think exist are often either insufficient or entirely not there.  I once called our local 211 crisis line seeking help finding housing for a household of 7 with three special needs kids and was told that I should look on Craigslist.  Super helpful, thanks. Another time, I was trying to help a homeless pregnant 15 year old girl and the social worker had no housing residential care options but really wanted us to take some brochures about breathing and meditation exercises.  Wow, thanks, very helpful.  I’ve spent my entire career in the non-profit sector, working for and with social services agencies and even in a state that does fund social services, it’s not all that great.  

Foster care is often an untenable situation for teen moms, with some foster parents caring more about trying to adopt her baby than really support the mom.  Quite often I have seen CPS refuse to do anything at all to help teen moms.  Sometimes I’ve seen them do more harm than good.  The odds are that if these 3 kids went into the system, they wouldn’t have the opportunity to grow up together.  The loss of their mom and their siblings would be a real harm to each of them.  The young mom might end up losing a relationship with her children.  

Sometimes it takes someone willing to step up and help personally, even if it means having strangers assume that in doing so you might be a boundary-less abuser.  

I’m not without sympathy to the argument that a teen in this situation is vulnerable to abuse and we need to be aware of healthy boundaries.  That said, when I think about my own life (grew up in poverty, was homeless as a child more than once, very dysfunctional family), I probably only ever graduated from high school and college because a teacher was very involved in my life in ways that would alarm people now.  

Edited March 24, 2023 by LucyStoner

[gardenmom5]

9 hours ago, thatfirstsip said:

This is highly state dependent, but in almost all states, a 13 year old cannot consent at all, even to sex with another 13 year old. It's not that it's rape - if they're both 13, who is raping whom? - but that neither of them are old enough to consent, and when thirteen year olds are having sex, something has gone terribly wrong.

 

It's amazing to me that it's being referred to in this thread as teenage pregnancy, as if a pregnant 17 year old (still too young, imo) and a pregnant 14 year old are the same thing, more or less.

14, sex at 13, is not just teenage pregnancy. It's something much more concerning, which is why in many states it *is* an automatic report, and why imo child and family services should always at least run an evaluation to see if services are possible to help the family, and especially the child(ren). 

 

The idea that a pregnant 14 year old girl is anything but a tragedy is unintelligible to me 

I think everyone is in agreement a 13 year old shouldn't be having sex.  I think everyone is in agreement a 13/14 year old having a baby (let alone three) is a tragedy.  She's still a little girl.

she was reportedly in foster care - at what point she was removed from her previous home is unknown.  who she was living with - is unknown.  

53 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 

I have no idea your age or how connected you are to youth in our current society but  13 year olds are (very unfortunately) having sex. It is tragic and that some get pregnant is a double tragedy. Just a year ago I was teaching 5th graders and sexting is a 4th and 5th grader problem now. 4th and 5th grade girls (and boys) are sending nudes to each other. The amount of sex and sexualization in our media and culture is unreal. 3rd-5th graders are given the whole world in their pocket via smart phones and they are not only accessing it but sending it to each other and encouraging it. Kids who won’t look at porn are even bullied sometimes. I wish I was exaggerating. So with that in mind, a 13 or 14 year old without enough parental supervision could definitely be having sex. It is tragic and it is sad. 
 

ETA: since I’ve already found my soapbox, why not lol. Part of the problem is that too many parents want to be cool and have no idea how to parent or say no. In fact I know kids who are being pushed into this stuff by parents. I had a friend whose 14 year old daughter was invited to her friend’s house and the boy’s mom ushered them to their own space, encouraged them to lock the door, and then the kid had condoms sitting on his dresser (put there by his mom). They were supposed to watch a movie and my friend thought it was a safe space since parents were home. The girl was thankfully in tune and called her mom when the boy wanted to make out. But what if she hadn’t been? Or what if they had been the type of family to allow their kid to feast on sexually charged material? Would the girl have just been primed and ready for such an encounter?

I was thoroughly disgusted with hollywood when they made a "isn't this romantic?"  movie about Mary Kay LeTourneau marrying the then 18 year old father of her two youngest children.   NO _ IT IS NOT "romantic" - it is CHILD ABUSE!!!   This happened in my area, so I heard about it on the news - a lot.  I was disgusted at the time she was in court during her first pregnancy.  BUT - *his* family, had very sick and twisted ideas about it too.  And the number of men claiming "he wasn't a victim, boys would high five each other". . . . no- it screwed up his life path to be a 12 year old father, and the number of people who encouraged him to marry his abuser.   The people who scream about girls being made to marry their abuser need to scream about any CHILD being forced/encouraged to marry their ABUSER.

Now - the number of stories of female TEACHERS having s3x with students is increasing. (I want to see harsher sentences for that.) Usually young women who want to relive their high school days because people aren't learning how to be an ADULT!  But the number of middle age mothers having s3x with their son's teenage friends is also disturbing.

[bolt.]

47 minutes ago, pinball said:

What resources would a 13/14 yo Canadian pregnant teen/teen mom of triplets receive?

What resources would a mom whose household increase by 4 children at once receive?

IOW, How would Canada support the people in this situation?

When a young teen finds out they are pregnant, most likely a doctor or school-based professional would put them in touch with local programs. These are usually government-funded charity partnerships who employ at least some social workers. This is often something like a YWCA program drop-in. The teen would receive support and information to work through their 3-way decision of adoption, abortion, or parenting -- with the pros and cons of each. There are also pamphlets and websites with a basic pro-con approach to the 3-way decision and a hotline such as 'kids help phone' would provide similar services.

The next step would be a free, full, healthcare-centred style of ongoing pregnancy care, or abortion services and after-care. If the pregnancy was continued, normal prenatal appointments would also include sensitively delivered teen-focused support for mental health, health basics, and social determinants of health. This would be provided by her usual family doctor (possibly in partnership with an OB for the end stages). This same doctor would become the babies' family doctor if she is keeping them. (If she doesn't already have a family doc, the social worker would help get her one and help her access walk-in clinic services in the meantime.)

If she was unhoused, or not safely housed, the social worker would help navigate getting her a foster home, or getting her an independent living situation most suitable to her situation, and getting her registered to receive welfare payments or other programs she qualifies for. Subsidized housing would be ideal, but waiting lists are quite long, and I don't know which circumstances might make her a priority over others.

If she lives in a major city, she would probably move her schooling to a pregnant-and-parenting school program. I don't know what they do in smaller cities and towns, but there is a lot of emphasis on keeping mom at least attached to a school and making some progress, because the science says this is the most important determinant of her future wellbeing and that of her children. All school boards are expected to have some sort of support plan.

At the time of birth, she would receive normal care and NICU as needed. After her discharge, most major hospitals have nearby charity temporary housing for people in situations like this. Once the babies were at-hand the social worker would help the teen mom get into a parenting support group, and make sure she was enrolled in all the programs and funding that she qualified for -- including welfare payments for herself, which increase with her family size, and include some degree of daycare funding for children under 5. They would also continue to try to get her into subsidized housing, which might be easier now that she is 'a family' rather than a single person.

Looking forward, some provinces provide a separate additional stipend for completely free childcare for anyone under 20 who is going to school below the grade 12 level, and most pregnant-and-parenting schools have on-site daycare. They also include parenting information as a curriculum component. Without a special program, she would probably have to scramble to coordinate her childcare needs and still keep going to school. Her social worker might have help to offer. Hopefully something could be managed and she would be encouraged, supported, and individually tutored towards a high school diploma while her kids were in daycare. Later she would be further supported to pursue postsecondary schooling or training in keeping with her skills. At that point daycare would need to come out of her welfare payments (but they are designed with that expense in mind). She would likely have her social worker check in on her periodically to offer help (and make sure the babies are doing okay) throughout these years, or she would be handed to another social worker.

If she and/or the babies were taken into foster care at any point, the foster parent would receive the foster stipend, which is not extravagant, but shouldn't leave a foster family needing to fundraise. Every effort would be made to keep the teen mom and her babies fostered together -- but that's not always possible. Sometimes it is, and it's the goal, and if they can't do that, they try to keep the mom-baby relationship as strong as possible in spite of living apart. 

[Harriet Vane]

4 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t know about all states, but neglect is a reportable issue in my state, and I think at least most. Neglect doesn’t have to leave physical marks.

I *would like to think* that a school counselor, school social worker, or hospital social worker would notice a 14yo mom to be or new mom of triplets as a human being in need of help, or at least assessment (in any socioeconomic class.) That doesn’t necessarily mean CPS involvement, but can.  
And yes, CPS is a mess. But I’d expect high priority on even in-home case management of medically needy triplets of a child.

None of this means the public is entitled to the details of this family’s story.  It is worthy of thinking about, and figuring out what we think our societal and government organizations should be doing.

I left off neglect inadvertently, you’re right. However, my real world experience over years of foster care is that neglect is the least-responded-to issue. Lack of supervision of teens would virtually never get any attention. Sexually active teens would not get any attention either—most caseworkers would consider it somewhat normal. Neglect they respond to would be chronically depriving children of food or extreme hoarding or mess (feces and extremely unsanitary conditions). They would respond to lack of supervision for a six-year-old, not a teen. Food neglect would lead to connecting the family with resources to get food. A filthy environment would trigger an investigation and requirements to clean, possibly attend parenting classes. It often does not involve removal of children.

[denarii]

23 minutes ago, pinball said:

Thanks, denarii.

would a minor be prevented from getting these financial supports due to her age? Or are they available to any aged parent?

 

If she is considered primarily responsible for the care of the children then she would qualify otherwise her caregiver would qualify with amounts being adjusted to account for household income. 

[Harriet Vane]

16 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

Not present.  Absent.  Rationalizing looking away as having good boundaries.  Thinking that social services and society has it taken care of so there’s no need for us as individuals to take any action or do anything to help.  

The social services that people think exist are often either insufficient or entirely not there.  I once called our local 211 crisis line seeking help finding housing for a household of 7 with three special needs kids and was told that I should look on Craigslist.  Super helpful, thanks. Another time, I was trying to help a homeless pregnant 15 year old girl and the social worker had no housing residential care options but really wanted us to take some brochures about breathing and meditation exercises.  Wow, thanks, very helpful.  I’ve spent my entire career in the non-profit sector, working for and with social services agencies and even in a state that does fund social services, it’s not all that great.  

Foster care is often an untenable situation for teen moms, with some foster parents caring more about trying to adopt her baby than really support the mom.  Quite often I have seen CPS refuse to do anything at all to help teen moms.  Sometimes I’ve seen them do more harm than good.  The odds are that if these 3 kids went into the system, they wouldn’t have the opportunity to grow up together.  The loss of their mom and their siblings would be a real harm to each of them.  The young mom might end up losing a relationship with her children.  

Sometimes it takes someone willing to step up and help personally, even if it means having strangers assume that in doing so you might be a boundary-less abuser.  

I’m not without sympathy to the argument that a teen in this situation is vulnerable to abuse and we need to be aware of healthy boundaries.  That said, when I think about my own life (grew up in poverty, was homeless as a child more than once, very dysfunctional family), I probably only ever graduated from high school and college because a teacher was very involved in my life in ways that would alarm people now.  

This.

[Carrie12345]

2 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

I left off neglect inadvertently, you’re right. However, my real world experience over years of foster care is that neglect is the least-responded-to issue. Lack of supervision of teens would virtually never get any attention. Sexually active teens would not get any attention either—most caseworkers would consider it somewhat normal. Neglect they respond to would be chronically depriving children of food or extreme hoarding or mess (feces and extremely unsanitary conditions). They would respond to lack of supervision for a six-year-old, not a teen. Food neglect would lead to connecting the family with resources to get food. A filthy environment would trigger an investigation and requirements to clean, possibly attend parenting classes. It often does not involve removal of children.

I know. I got licensed specifically for two children removed for neglect after years of being followed for neglect.

[Harriet Vane]

Just now, Carrie12345 said:

I know. I got licensed specifically for two children removed for neglect after years of being followed for neglect.

Exactly. What stands out to me in your statement is “years of being followed…”. 😔

[LucyStoner]

15 minutes ago, bolt. said:

When a young teen finds out they are pregnant, most likely a doctor or school-based professional would put them in touch with local programs. These are usually government-funded charity partnerships who employ at least some social workers. This is often something like a YWCA program drop-in. The teen would receive support and information to work through their 3-way decision of adoption, abortion, or parenting -- with the pros and cons of each. There are also pamphlets and websites with a basic pro-con approach to the 3-way decision and a hotline such as 'kids help phone' would provide similar services.

The next step would be a free, full, healthcare-centred style of ongoing pregnancy care, or abortion services and after-care. If the pregnancy was continued, normal prenatal appointments would also include sensitively delivered teen-focused support for mental health, health basics, and social determinants of health. This would be provided by her usual family doctor (possibly in partnership with an OB for the end stages). This same doctor would become the babies' family doctor if she is keeping them. (If she doesn't already have a family doc, the social worker would help get her one and help her access walk-in clinic services in the meantime.)

If she was unhoused, or not safely housed, the social worker would help navigate getting her a foster home, or getting her an independent living situation most suitable to her situation, and getting her registered to receive welfare payments or other programs she qualifies for. Subsidized housing would be ideal, but waiting lists are quite long, and I don't know which circumstances might make her a priority over others.

If she lives in a major city, she would probably move her schooling to a pregnant-and-parenting school program. I don't know what they do in smaller cities and towns, but there is a lot of emphasis on keeping mom at least attached to a school and making some progress, because the science says this is the most important determinant of her future wellbeing and that of her children. All school boards are expected to have some sort of support plan.

At the time of birth, she would receive normal care and NICU as needed. After her discharge, most major hospitals have nearby charity temporary housing for people in situations like this. Once the babies were at-hand the social worker would help the teen mom get into a parenting support group, and make sure she was enrolled in all the programs and funding that she qualified for -- including welfare payments for herself, which increase with her family size, and include some degree of daycare funding for children under 5. They would also continue to try to get her into subsidized housing, which might be easier now that she is 'a family' rather than a single person.

Looking forward, some provinces provide a separate additional stipend for completely free childcare for anyone under 20 who is going to school below the grade 12 level, and most pregnant-and-parenting schools have on-site daycare. They also include parenting information as a curriculum component. Without a special program, she would probably have to scramble to coordinate her childcare needs and still keep going to school. Her social worker might have help to offer. Hopefully something could be managed and she would be encouraged, supported, and individually tutored towards a high school diploma while her kids were in daycare. Later she would be further supported to pursue postsecondary schooling or training in keeping with her skills. At that point daycare would need to come out of her welfare payments (but they are designed with that expense in mind). She would likely have her social worker check in on her periodically to offer help (and make sure the babies are doing okay) throughout these years, or she would be handed to another social worker.

If she and/or the babies were taken into foster care at any point, the foster parent would receive the foster stipend, which is not extravagant, but shouldn't leave a foster family needing to fundraise. Every effort would be made to keep the teen mom and her babies fostered together -- but that's not always possible. Sometimes it is, and it's the goal, and if they can't do that, they try to keep the mom-baby relationship as strong as possible in spite of living apart. 

Ideally, sure. And I wish that were the case everywhere for everyone.  In reality?  What is *supposed to happen* doesn’t all the time.  There’s a significant number of unhoused people in Vancouver and as far as I am aware the problem is increasing steadily.  Seattle and Vancouver have very different governments but very similar housing crises.  Shelters and residential options for homeless families turn people away all the time.  Social work systems can and do only do so much.  People do fall through the cracks.  

Edited March 24, 2023 by LucyStoner