Did y'all hear about the Georgia Guidestones

[Xahm]

I don't know how many people ever heard of the Georgia Guidestones/American Stonehenge, but it was an odd place. Now there's a new strange chapter as sometime bombed it. Just bringing it to your attention if you need a new strange rabbit hole.

[Farrar]

Oh yeah. It makes me sad because here was this random cool thing that conspiracy theorists decided to destroy and basically succeeded in large measure. Like, people are so evil now.

[Slache]

Yes, I thought it was so weird. Why would you do that? 

[Katy]

I didn’t read it but I saw WaPo had a piece in it this morning. Something about the far right and conspiracy theories. 

[bookbard]

For some reason it was big news here in Australia yday, maybe because of the pictures? Said Satanic-fearing Christians had probably wrecked it, I think that was on ABC news. Another kind of "only in America" type story I'd say. 

[MercyA]

It makes me sad when people destroy things for no good reason. Boo. 

It's interesting, though--a lot of right-wing conspiracists think that the Georgia Guidestones were placed by a New World Order / One-World-er person or group, but according to a John Oliver show DH and I watched last month, they were actually placed by a white supremacist! 

Here's the clip (language, of course, it's John Oliver). Very interesting.

Start at around 8:20.

Edited July 14, 2022 by MercyA

[Xahm]

I've been there, and it was a weird creepy place, particularly at night. The John Oliver story in it brought up a possible Klan admiration aspect, which I'd heard before and comes as no shock at all. It was, to me, less some random cool thing and more some random monument to one guy's grandiosity. Still, obviously, blowing things up is not how we handle things.

[ScoutTN]

Crazy people!!

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

I didn’t read it but I saw WaPo had a piece in it this morning. Something about the far right and conspiracy theories. 

Trying not to stray into politics, I believe one congressional candidate in Georgia spoke about it being satanic. Not sure if that happened before and triggered someone, or after and was an attempt to explain its demise. 
 

[eta now that I’ve read through I see  @MercyAposted the video explaining it - Kandiss Taylor - thanks Mercy)
 

I remember reading about it a few years ago, that it was a new world order thing? And there was a big mystery about who actually erected it. Struck me at the time that I seemed to hear Robert Stack’s voice as I was reading about it. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Grace Hopper

[Annie G]

We live about 20 miles from it and oddly, it’s simply not in our news. Like it wasn’t covered at all in the Athens paper. Not the explosion nor the quick demolition of the rest of it. I’ve seen it all over the internet, but not on the Facebook pages of our county or Elbert County where it was. I find that so weird!

[HomeAgain]

When people with authority attempt to impose their opinion as fact, we all lose.  The guidestones are just a more recent example of the lack of discernment between fact and opinion this country has cultivated.

[Annie G]

1 hour ago, Xahm said:

I've been there, and it was a weird creepy place, particularly at night. The John Oliver story in it brought up a possible Klan admiration aspect, which I'd heard before and comes as no shock at all. It was, to me, less some random cool thing and more some random monument to one guy's grandiosity. Still, obviously, blowing things up is not how we handle things.

I hadn’t heard about any klan admiration connection. We only visited once, in 2020 when everything was closed and we needed to get out of the house. We showed up and there were about 50 people, all black, and they were clearly in awe of it. Lots of photos being taken and one guy told us their church goes a few times a year. It was a Sunday and I wondered if they’d had a service there before we arrived. They were definitely dressed up. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

While I'm not in favor of any kind of vandalism (and blowing things up certainly counts!), the loss of something from the 1970's doesn't seem like a huge anthropological loss. 

[scholastica]

22 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

When people with authority attempt to impose their opinion as fact, we all lose.  The guidestones are just a more recent example of the lack of discernment between fact and opinion this country has cultivated.

This was placed by an anonymous individual, not any authority. 

[KungFuPanda]

Was this back in the 80s during the Satanic Panic or more recently? I’ve never heard of it and I thought I knew about most Fundie things. I do know about foamhenge and won’t rest until I see it 

[Xahm]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

Was this back in the 80s during the Satanic Panic or more recently? I’ve never heard of it and I thought I knew about most Fundie things. I do know about foamhenge and won’t rest until I see it 

It was erected in 1980, I think, and blown up yesterday.

It's not so much a fundie thing. Some guy decided to erect a set of instructions/commandments, some of which are non-controversial while others are more so(including population control and hints at eugenics) in a number of different world languages. He used a pseudonym and had them plopped down in Georgia near the South Carolina line. It's a place that calls itself the granite capital of the world, so I assumed that after buying the stones and the carving and such, there wasn't room in the budget for shipping them any where else. 

It's set up to serve as an astronomical clock and is really in the middle of nowhere, like fields and trees around it, then it's in this clearing. It's not a surprise that it attracted rumors of the occult, and fundamentalists reacted to that. Now, instead of viewing it as instructions to survivors in case there's a catastrophe, some read it as instructions for the New World Order, leading to renewed interest and, apparently, vehement rage.

[Annie G]

30 minutes ago, Xahm said:

It was erected in 1980, I think, and blown up yesterday.

It's not so much a fundie thing. Some guy decided to erect a set of instructions/commandments, some of which are non-controversial while others are more so(including population control and hints at eugenics) in a number of different world languages. He used a pseudonym and had them plopped down in Georgia near the South Carolina line. It's a place that calls itself the granite capital of the world, so I assumed that after buying the stones and the carving and such, there wasn't room in the budget for shipping them any where else. 

 

I’m cracking up at the thought of them ordering the stones and then going, “It’s HOW MUCH to ship???”  Ok, just plop them down in this field.  And then later they gave the land and control of the monument to the county! What were the county officials thinking????

 

[Xahm]

2 minutes ago, Annie G said:

I’m cracking up at the thought of them ordering the stones and then going, “It’s HOW MUCH to ship???”  Ok, just plop them down in this field.  And then later they gave the land and control of the monument to the county! What were the county officials thinking????

 

I image the country officials made the call to tear the rest down pretty quickly after the explosion. 1. It's unsafe. 2. It would be expensive to repair. 3. It's attracting people with bombs to this little neck of the woods.

[Annie G]

2 minutes ago, Xahm said:

I image the country officials made the call to tear the rest down pretty quickly after the explosion. 1. It's unsafe. 2. It would be expensive to repair. 3. It's attracting people with bombs to this little neck of the woods.

Oh, I’m sure they were glad to tear it down, I meant what were they thinking accepting the land and responsibility for the monument? Not a very good use of government resources.  It was deeded to them many years ago.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Annie G

[HomeAgain]

11 hours ago, scholastica said:

This was placed by an anonymous individual, not any authority. 

Yes. 

But someone gave themselves the authority to share their wacked out opinions on it as fact, and that's what led to it being blown up.  We have a nation that doesn't discern news from opinion pieces or conspiracy theories.

[scholastica]

26 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

Yes. 

But someone gave themselves the authority to share their wacked out opinions on it as fact, and that's what led to it being blown up.  We have a nation that doesn't discern news from opinion pieces or conspiracy theories.

No argument that our populace has a lower than average ability to discern news from opinion. 
We do however have freedom of speech. That’s what gave a person the authority to share their whacked out opinion. 
 

[HomeAgain]

23 minutes ago, scholastica said:

No argument that our populace has a lower than average ability to discern news from opinion. 
We do however have freedom of speech. That’s what gave a person the authority to share their whacked out opinion. 
 

There is a difference in having the freedom to voice your opinion and being in a position of authority that requires bearing that responsibility of what your opinion does when you voice it as fact.

Nobody pays attention to the homeless guy shouting that the world is ending tomorrow because of the alien invasion.  He doesn't have a position that encourages listening to him or making him think he knows what he's talking about.  When a political candidate starts spouting nonsense, and people listen, that candidate should be held responsible for his words.  Freedom doesn't absolve anyone of responsibility when they use that freedom poorly in an effort to get people to do what they want.

Otherwise, January 6th was just an exercise in freedom by those in power as well.  And you and I both know it's not.  I'm not sure why you keep assuming my words mean something other than what they do, but it's not a conversation I'm going to continue pursuing when my response is just me correcting you each time.

[Tanaqui]

13 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

When people with authority attempt to impose their opinion as fact, we all lose.  The guidestones are just a more recent example of the lack of discernment between fact and opinion this country has cultivated.

I have no idea what you're getting at here.

[scholastica]

14 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

There is a difference in having the freedom to voice your opinion and being in a position of authority that requires bearing that responsibility of what your opinion does when you voice it as fact.

Nobody pays attention to the homeless guy shouting that the world is ending tomorrow because of the alien invasion.  He doesn't have a position that encourages listening to him or making him think he knows what he's talking about.  When a political candidate starts spouting nonsense, and people listen, that candidate should be held responsible for his words.  Freedom doesn't absolve anyone of responsibility when they use that freedom poorly in an effort to get people to do what they want.

Otherwise, January 6th was just an exercise in freedom by those in power as well.  And you and I both know it's not.  I'm not sure why you keep assuming my words mean something other than what they do, but it's not a conversation I'm going to continue pursuing when my response is just me correcting you each time.

Your initial post was quite cryptic. There was no way to tell if you were talking about the stones themselves or something else. 

I have never thought or asserted that the insurrection on the 6th was simply an act of free speech, so I don’t know why you would bring that up.

 

[HomeAgain]

19 minutes ago, scholastica said:

Your initial post was quite cryptic. There was no way to tell if you were talking about the stones themselves or something else. 

I have never thought or asserted that the insurrection on the 6th was simply an act of free speech, so I don’t know why you would bring that up.

 

But you asked nothing and assumed everything.  It made for a frustrating exercise on both our parts because you couldn't be bothered to find out what I meant.  Or perhaps just on my part, because there was no conversation, just redirecting your misconception.

[Xahm]

14 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

When people with authority attempt to impose their opinion as fact, we all lose.  The guidestones are just a more recent example of the lack of discernment between fact and opinion this country has cultivated.

 

1 hour ago, scholastica said:

No argument that our populace has a lower than average ability to discern news from opinion. 
We do however have freedom of speech. That’s what gave a person the authority to share their whacked out opinion. 
 

 HomeAgain, when you wrote, "The Guidestones are a more recent example..." did you mean to say say the recent hubbub leading to their bombing/the bombing itself is a recent example? Your subsequent posts make it seem that way. I think Scholastica and others (including myself) initially thought you were referring to the creation of the monument. The monument's creation is a pretty clear example of weird opinion, strongly stated, covered by free speech. The bombing and intense rhetoric leading up to it is something else entirely. Can you see how the confusion perhaps occurred? I don't think anyone was trying to twist your words or be obtuse.

[bolt.]

4 hours ago, scholastica said:

No argument that our populace has a lower than average ability to discern news from opinion. 
We do however have freedom of speech. That’s what gave a person the authority to share their whacked out opinion. 
 

But does anybody have the (alleged) ability to discern "opinion" from "news"? All reporting (and all writing) contains elements of opinion. I think assessing things in terms of "news vs opinion" (or "fact vs opinion") engages with a false dichotomy that creates an expectation for a category (100% fact) that generally doesn't exist (in most everyday cases).

I've had (American) curriculum try to assert this dichotomy in such ham-fisted, arbitrary, and alarmingly vague ways that I'm not surprised that many people find the discernment task quite difficult. The nature of "a fact" is a highly philosophical question (epistemology) that has baffled scholars for centuries.

Edited July 8, 2022 by bolt.