Any teachers interpret this for me?

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

First of all. Thank you guys for being my friends. You’re about all I have these days lol.

Give me a reality check.  This is DS7’s ELA test scores. They test in September, December, and June.  It looks to me like he’s made zero progress between December and June.  I checked with a special Ed teacher friend who agreed.  His percentile rank in September was 9, December was 11 and June was 11. His fountain and pinellas reading letter is an F, which appears to me to be mid-first grade.

the school is telling me he is fine. Everything is just fine. They say he doesn’t qualify for RTI much less academic support. Basically—I am overreacting.  But I feel like I should be seeing SOME progress, even if it’s slow progress.

[TexasProud]

I would expect to see some growth, but at the same time, I wouldn't panic...yet. He could have had an off day on the June testing day.   But yes, I would be concerned.  How do you feel like he is doing as far as his reading goes?  Do you think he reads better now than in December?  If not, I would investigate why. 

[Farrar]

I'm not a reading specialist, but I agree with you. No progress when a student is already struggling is a bad sign. He flatlined. Something's not working. What's even the point of doing so much testing if they don't listen to the results?

[Kanin]

Well, his percentile rank hasn't improved, but he's managed to stay in the same percentile. If he had made no gains at all, his percentile would have dropped. So, I would say he's made minimal progress (as measured by this test), but maybe not zero. 

What kind of other measures do they use to judge progress? How does a kid qualify for RTI at his school?

Edited June 25, 2022 by Kanin

[Kanin]

Another thought... Is the test computer based? First grade is young for that. 

[TexasProud]

Just now, Kanin said:

Another thought... Is the test computer based? First grade is young for that. 

Yes, I would want to know a lot more about this test and how it is administered.  That is why I asked about her personal observations.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

It is pencil and paper until 2nd grade in his school.  I don’t know all of the scoring, but it’s AimsWeb testing by Pearson. 
I gave him the All About Reading placement test and he is straddling a line between their 1st and 2nd levels, which is entering kindergarten and entering first grade.  And it’s in line with his grades as well.  I knew from the grades and reading levels he was behind, but I expected a little more progress. 
 

All that to say I think this and the percentiles are accurate as far as where he is struggling.  But the school thinks it’s nothing, so I am checking my gut feeling.  His math level is worse(9th, 6th and 5th percentiles throughout this year) and I’d already decided to do some targeted interventions there this summer but I may need to add ELA in. Sigh.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Lecka]

It’s not that they think it’s nothing, it’s what they expect from him.  Aka they don’t expect him to do very well so they are satisfied.  

[TexasProud]

6 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

It is pencil and paper until 2nd grade in his school.  I don’t know all of the scoring, but it’s AimsWeb testing by Pearson. 
I gave him the All About Reading placement test and he is straddling a line between their 1st and 2nd levels, which is entering kindergarten and entering first grade.  And it’s in line with his grades as well.  I knew from the grades and reading levels he was behind, but I expected a little more progress. 
 

All that to say I think this and the percentiles are accurate as far as where he is struggling.  But the school thinks it’s nothing, so I am checking my gut feeling.  His math level is worse(9th, 6th and 5th percentiles throughout this year) and I’d already decided to do some targeted interventions there this summer but I may need to add ELA in. Sigh.

I am sorry. Yes, trust your gut!

[Lecka]

Is that realistic or not is the real question.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

4 minutes ago, Lecka said:

It’s not that they think it’s nothing, it’s what they expect from him.  Aka they don’t expect him to do very well so they are satisfied.  

You are correct. I initially left that part out because I was trying to get an unbiased view point. His IQ is in the 70s according to the IQ test he took at 3 and basically nonverbal.  So their expectations are low. Mine are not. He does grasp concepts but needs extra time and repetition for mastery.  But once he has grasped a skill or a concept, he never loses it.  It just takes longer and daily repetition for mastery.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Hilltopmom]

June testing results usually are not great for most kids. And kids who are tired of constantly doing Aimsweb all year plus other growth monitoring- do worse, imo.

You can request an eval and skip the whole RTI process leading up to it. In NY a parent can request Ed testing in writing and the school must do it even if their RTI doesn’t warrant it.

He’s not “that far” below expected grade level. They really don’t want us putting in for Evals until a kid is at least 3 grade levels below. (That’s too late though!) With covid “losses”, Evals are not getting pushed through the school so if you want one, don’t wait for RTI- request it yourself. We had so many kids who needed RTI this year that only the very bottom scores got it.

wait- does he already have an iep?

then he won’t get RTI but can get reading services on his iep with the sped teacher 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Hilltopmom

[Lecka]

Well that is exactly what is going on.

In reality I am I this situation and I think there is a lot of reality in thinking one of my kids isn’t capable or making “one year of progress in one year.”

But that’s very different from thinking he will never make any progress at all.  

[Lecka]

I agree — don’t just accept this.  Do the whole parent advocate thing.  Do the IEP thing.

Point it out and ask for more services.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

He has an IEP and a SPED teacher in district told me that they generally don’t do RTI with kids who have an IEP because it’s “double dipping.”  This doesn’t make sense to me unless I don’t understand RTI, but a district school psychologist acquaintance confirmed it. 
 

he may not reach a year of progress in a school year, and that’s fine. But I wanted to double check my mom gut feeling that I should be asking for resources for some kind of progress, however slow.  He already feels he’s dumb compared to his classmates; I am not okay with waiting until he’s three grade levels behind.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Lecka]

Okay — I have been told that RTI services and IEP services are separate.

Like — in a paperwork kind of way.

Yes — ask for more services. Maybe they are through IEP services and not through RTI services — who cares.  If it’s effective, if there is time spent and the plan is effective — who cares if it’s IEP or RTI.

If they don’t offer x, y, z as an IEP service, that’s not okay.

Don’t be afraid to advocate. Don’t be afraid to bring things up.  If you seem more knowledgeable I think that’s a good thing.  

 

[Melissa in Australia]

If I was the parent I would want to see more tests from other sources as well. It would rule out just having a non cooperative day. 

My twin 2 has stagnated for 3 year through  multiple tests and assessments. As peers in that age group progress on test scores it looks like he is plumiting, but really it is just no progress. His IQ score was high 60s when he was 5. I suspect strongly it would be lower now. 

Twin 1 is making very slow progress so his scores increase very slightly on Tests making an almost straight line, but ever so slightly curve down  his IQ was also in high 60s when tested at 5, but higher than his brother 

From my limited experiance of teaching, in the school system, children are expected to make one year growth accidemically per year. Anyone learning at a slower rate than a 1 year growth would appear to be stagnant on the charts

[Hilltopmom]

10 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

He has an IEP and a SPED teacher in district told me that they generally don’t do RTI with kids who have an IEP because it’s “double dipping.”  This doesn’t make sense to me unless I don’t understand RTI, but a district school psychologist acquaintance confirmed it. 
 

he may not reach a year of progress in a school year, and that’s fine. But I wanted to double check my mom gut feeling that I should be asking for resources for some kind of progress, however slow.  He already feels he’s dumb compared to his classmates; I am not okay with waiting until he’s three grade levels behind.

Yes that’s correct- you get RTI before sped. You get sped if you don’t make progress in RTI. You can’t get both.

The 3 grades behind I meant that’s how far we have to prove kids are before we can get them IEPs. But he already has one.

Does he have a reading goal, encoding goal, decoding goal, fluency, sight words? Phonics?

For kids who already have an iep, I don’t use aimsweb to measure progress- I use iep goal progress. What did his quarterly reports say his progress was toward each reading goal?

Does he get any pull out reading services or resource room or is it just push into a Gen Ed classroom? I push hard to get pull out or resource for my students so I have a daily time to work on reading at their level that we cannot do in the regular classroom (too loud, kids are embarrassed to be seen getting phonics instruction, etc). Are they using an individualized reading/ phonics program with him or is he just sitting through Gen Ed lessons above his head? They could run him through something like Phonics For Reading in 20 minutes a day, even a TA could do it.

I’d ask questions about what his individualized reading instruction at his level looks like. Get that added to his iep along with reading goals if he doesn’t have them.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Hilltopmom

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

1 minute ago, Hilltopmom said:

Yes that’s correct- you get RTI before sped. You get sped if you don’t make progress in RTI. You can’t get both.

The 3 grades behind I meant that’s how far we have to prove kids are before we can get them IEPs. But he already has one.

Does he have a reading goal, encoding goal, deciding goal, fluency, sight words?

For kids who already have an iep, I don’t use aimsweb to measure progress- I use iep goal progress. What did his quarterly reports say his progress was toward each reading goal?

Does he get any pull out reading services or resource room or is it just push into a Gen Ed classroom? I push hard to get pull out or resource for my students do I have a daily time to work on reading at their level that we cannot do in the regular classroom (too loud, kids are embarrassed to be seen getting phonics instruction, etc). Are they using an individualized reading/ phonics program with him or is he just sitting through Gen Ed lessons above his head? They could run him through something like Phonics For Reading in 20 minutes a day, even a TA could do it.

I’d ask questions about what his individualized reading instruction at his level looks like. Get that added to his iep along with reading goals if he doesn’t have them.

No, he gets speech and OT.  No other services.

No reading goals and at the recent CSE meeting his teacher didn’t think he needed any.

[Lecka]

Maybe I am way off but I think I come across like I have Aspergers and will just read and bring things up that don’t seem right, without really caring how I come across.  I don’t think it hurts how things work out for me.  
 

Think about it.  The special Ed people deal with plenty of Aspergers kids and know they are obsessive and will read things and point things out.

 

I don’t think it serves me poorly.

 

Although I’m in a different situation and I think realistically my son is limited in the progress he is likely to make and I tend to be pretty happy with his teachers even if they are expecting less than “12 months in 12 months” of progress because I don’t think that’s realistic and I’m generally happy with what they are doing.

 

But that is very different than having a sense that they aren’t trying very hard and don’t have sufficiently high expectations.

 

 

[Hilltopmom]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

No, he gets speech and OT.  No other services.

No reading goals and at the recent CSE meeting his teacher didn’t think he needed any.

Oh gotcha.

so yeah, ask for updated testing to see if he qualifies for reading services on his iep. Not aimsweb- an actual school psych done achievement test and updated IQ.

I’d want him at least working with a sped teacher on reading, not just sitting through Gen Ed whole class lessons if he’s already struggling. 
Kids are SO LOW this year though that it might really seem like he’s not that bad compared to others. Gen Ed kids a few grades below- really. So maybe his teacher doesn’t see the need.

Like my class coming to me in the fall- we already got permission to do a different grade level curriculum with them because the whole group is years “behind” academically. Only 6 have IEPs. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Hilltopmom

[Lecka]

Look I think just having an IEP can mean no RTI.  I think you need reading added to the IEP more than you need RTI.

I could be wrong but that is my thought.  

Edited June 25, 2022 by Lecka

[Hilltopmom]

2 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Look I think just having an IEP can mean no RTI.  I think you need reading added to the IEP more than you need RTI.

I could be wrong but that is my thought.  

Yes, RTI is a Gen Ed service for struggling kids. And not taught by a sped teacher. It often involves just putting kids on a remedial computer program- I don’t recommend that!

[Lecka]

I agree and about asking for testing.

You do want a good benchmark for testing.  That’s more likely to be the school psych testing I think.

Keep in mind — you think you’ll live here a while.  Even if you ask for something you don’t think you’ll get right now — that could help you 1-2 years from now.

And sometimes (often) they take you seriously when you ask for things or kind-of call them out like “isn’t this messed up?”

Its not a bad thing and it can be your role as a parent.

The parent role and the teacher role are not just the same.  A lot of things are appropriate for a parent that could he awkward for a teacher.  Don’t be afraid to be a parent and don’t put a teacher in a situation where they are supposed to advocate for your child with their boss… it’s more

appropriate for a parent. And they are used to it — other parents are doing it or have done it. 

[Lecka]

Put things in writing, too, a verbal conversation just is not the same. Especially with a teacher.  It’s just not the same.

Its nothing at all against amazing, wonderful teachers. It’s just not their role to be “a parent advocate.”  It’s a parent’s role.  

Edited June 25, 2022 by Lecka

[Hilltopmom]

3 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Put things in writing, too, a verbal conversation just is not the same. Especially with a teacher.  It’s just not the same.

Its nothing at all against amazing, wonderful teachers. It’s just not their role to be “a parent advocate.”  It’s a parent’s role.  

Thank you  for that. As a sped teacher I try to be an advocate for my students but I lose many battles that I can’t push anymore on so that I don’t get blacklisted and so that I can win a battle for another kid another time. It’s a real balancing act.

Now, as a parent of a kid with an iep in my own school- it’s even more so! Push too hard and I get talked about by admin behind my back and a target on my back.

[Lecka]

Frankly too you may need a higher level of service than what is provided through RTI.

Is it realistic to expect a child with a lower IQ to make the same progress with the same services as kids in RTI?

Or do they need a higher level of service?  Whether this is a more intensive curriculum, or more teacher hours, or programming that isn’t “put the kid on a computer,” etc.

RTI is not magical.  It’s the lowest level.

Now in reality is it better than an IEP where nobody thinks the kid can do anything?

But with an IEP you can get provisions of what is being taught and who is teaching it.  There is language in IDEA about what is a qualified teacher.  
 

Its definitely possible that not much is being done, or that a quality program is being done by a qualified teacher.  This can be specified in an IEP.  Even if you haven’t had it yet — it doesn’t mean they won’t do it if you call them out. 

[Lecka]

Hilltop mom — I am sorry that is the case.

I think it’s just not a good situation a lot of the time, for teachers.

 

 

[JessieC]

I am a reading specialist, and I have used Aimsweb. You should definitely see more growth in a first grade student from middle to end of year. 

Each state and district is different, but in the school where I work, we would not distinguish between IEP and other students in determining Tier 2 reading groups (basically, pullout services). The only difference is that IEP students are guaranteed this extra support and it must be done by a certified teacher or reading specialist. We mix IEP and non-IEP students as long as the group instructor is certified. It sounds like your school has a different approach. 

However, in that case, considering that he does not have an IEP reading goal, he should definitely be considered for extra reading support along with the general population of kids. Having an IEP in other areas should not make him ineligible for this support. I would definitely fight this, as the classroom reading instruction is not meeting his needs. Good luck!

[Ausmumof3]

I’m not a teacher but tutoring at a dyslexia place. Here, we seem to get a lot of kids come in at Grade 3 and with all of them I think they should have been helped a touch earlier. The kids that started in grade 2 are often caught up or closer to grade level by grade 3 than the ones who were high enough level to miss earlier intervention and then need more by the time they come in. Some pick stuff up really quick but others it can take a few runs to get concepts so the sooner the better.
 

Are you able to do some AAR stuff or OG stuff at home while your waiting? I know you guys have a crazy tonne of stuff going on so ignore that if it’s impractical. 
 

ETA the graph itself just indicates that he’s not catching up or falling behind his age group I think, rather than no progress? He’s making progress at the same rate as everyone else but from a lower starting point.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[AmandaVT]

I think you should push for reading services - does your district teach Orton Gillingham by any chance? When is his triennial evaluation due? I have students I spend 60 min 1:1 with daily doing intensive OG lessons that have moved from the 1% to the 2% this year, and I celebrated that because it was their best progress. An IEP doesn't mean a student is guaranteed to reach the average or above average range on everything, but it should guarantee that the student is being taught to their personal best potential. ~10% is below the threshold that should trigger IEP services in that basic skill area. If he were on my caseload, I'd want to see him for daily reading services. 

Also, this may be a controversial statement, but ignore F&P levels. They are not very meaningful. The texts from level to level vary a very small amount so a student could be reading fluently at a number of different levels. I have seen teachers move a student up 3 levels in a year but the student had not made any actual meaningful reading progress. 

[katilac]

You always want to see progress, but sometimes kids do plateau for a few months, particularly using a broad tool like standardized testing. 

 I would focus on progress in skills versus percentiles. They are meant to reflect each other to some extent, but because he needs a lot of time and repetition, I would expect his percentile growth to slow as school gets more complex. You already know that he is going to gain skills more slowly, so keeping a detailed list will show you that incremental progress that may not be enough to budge his percentile growth. 

Also, you may regard certain skills with less value than the standardized test does, and that can alter the picture as well. Like my kids would have done horrifically bad on the sections about money, time, and measurement in first grade, bc we spent very little time on it and did not use the same vocabulary. So drill down on skills, looking at not just this test but other sources, and make a list of what you think is important to progress in. You can also break down the skills much more; if the test has a skill of counting to 120 from any number, you can ignore that. Start where he is, and make a goal to progress in small increments. 

You talked in another post about worrying that he will not be prepared for 2nd grade, but I agree with them about not holding him back. Yes, he would probably do better in Grade 1, Round 2, but that only solves the problem for a year. If he needs lots of repetition, he has to get it by other means, not by repeating grades. 

Has he gone through a full phonics program? Not a reading program that 'uses phonics' but structured phonics program.  If not, that is absolutely where I would start, and I would go as slowly as needed. Edited to add that it would be extremely unusual for a school to be using a true phonics program, no matter how much they use the word.  

For math, Kumon is very good for repetition and incremental progress.

Edited June 25, 2022 by katilac

[Drama Llama]

Special Ed teacher here.

I don't know this particular test.  It's not one I've used or interpreted.  If it was a test I did know, then I would undoubtedly have more thoughts.

It's not uncommon for kids with disabilities who come from backgrounds with actively involved educated English-speaking parents to see falling reading percentiles in K and 1st grade, even with high quality intervention, because there are a lot of kids entering school with no disability and just a lack of skills due to exposure and those kids often move faster.  So, stable percentiles, even though it feels like "OMG he's not catching up!" can be a good sign at this age.  

Beyond that, my first question is whether this is a test that's the same winter and spring, or one where kids take harder versions at different points in the year? My second question is whether those results are age normed, or grade normed, or just normed for the entire population taking the test?

I think with an IQ below the 7th percentile, you are going to have a hard time using test scores at the 11th percentile and holding steady as an argument for reading intervention.  I'm NOT saying that's how it should be, but that is my suspicion.  Given that the IQ was done at such a young age as to be meaningless, and that you have suspicions about it's accuracy, I'd start with addressing that issue, while doing some intensive phonics over the summer, and then address the lack of readng instruction in the IEP.

I haven't read all the responses, so I might come back with more thoughts.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Baseballandhockey
because I read the thread!

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

You are correct. I initially left that part out because I was trying to get an unbiased view point. His IQ is in the 70s according to the IQ test he took at 3 and basically nonverbal.  So their expectations are low. Mine are not. He does grasp concepts but needs extra time and repetition for mastery.  But once he has grasped a skill or a concept, he never loses it.  It just takes longer and daily repetition for mastery.

 

 

Was he retested at his triennial?  I didn't see this before my other post, I thought you had an ID diagnosis for him.

I ask for an IEE to clarify that issue.  An IQ test for a 3 year old is meaningless.

[Drama Llama]

Two more questions.  

What has the trajectory of his F & P been?  Are they administering it with or without accommodations, particularly timing ones?

Also what category does he qualify for services under?

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

He qualifies for services under the speech disability. 

He has not been retested. He was tested under preschool services, then everything fell apart during Covid.  He is having his full re-evaluation done in fall. I had to sign to be okay to delay it but truthfully I knew they had other kids in desperate need of evaluation and was ok with it.  
I was wrong about the age. He was 4.5 at the time of the IQ test(I just went and looked). He was still not speaking super intelligibly. 
 

I don’t have any idea how this test is scored or normed.  It is not one I am at all familiar with.  The only test I am really familiar with is the Group Reading Assessment & Diagnostic Evaluation, because in my graduate school literacy strategies and intervention class that is what was used.  I could probably administer it just to have a clue where he’s at.

Actually, I am Orton-Gillingham trained.  The school here isn’t familiar with it and doesn’t use it, but I am considering just purchasing All About Reading level 2 and working through it with him at his own pace.  As I said earlier, he grasps things at his own pace, but once he has understanding and skills he keeps it.  It just takes longer to reach mastery.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

38 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Two more questions.  

What has the trajectory of his F & P been?  Are they administering it with or without accommodations, particularly timing ones?

Also what category does he qualify for services under?

Trying to get information out of this school is like pulling teeth.  As far as I know, he does not receive any accommodations at all.  There is none on his IEP for academics. He has some for physical issues and sensory issues, but no academic accommodations. 

I don’t know about his trajectory.  I knew his grades were low in ELA, but until they sent all these reams of paperwork home at the end of the year I was unaware of any scores.  I knew about math because the teacher mentioned it at the CSE meeting but said it was still not enough to warrant intervention.

He’s not a child i would hold back because he’s very socially aware and adept.  He takes a lot more repetition and time than many other kids to grasp a concept or skill , and I just feel like I should be pushing for some interventions or assistance before he’s going into fourth grade and is barely reading(this happened with my oldest, who is high average Iq, but again interventions were difficult to get and then one day when he was 10 he decided he wanted to read Harry Potter and learned to read in about a week).

[Hilltopmom]

Tbh- you doing AAR with him on the side is probably his best option. All my kids got sped services but made the most progress with me doing AAR and/ or Dancing Bears consistently and 1:1

I just can’t give any individual students at school that kind of time/ attention, unfortunately.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Hilltopmom

[Drama Llama]

4 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

He qualifies for services under the speech disability. 

He has not been retested. He was tested under preschool services, then everything fell apart during Covid.  He is having his full re-evaluation done in fall. I had to sign to be okay to delay it but truthfully I knew they had other kids in desperate need of evaluation and was ok with it.  
I was wrong about the age. He was 4.5 at the time of the IQ test(I just went and looked). He was still not speaking super intelligibly. 

If he was tested at 4.5 that makes sense.  I actually think test scores aren't reliable at all until about 7 so delaying it might be a good thing long term.  If it's going to be in the early fall, then I would do reading stuff on your own and get those results before I acted on this.  You'll also have another data point with this test. 

I would take the F & P scores more seriously than a test administered in a group.  I know you said he's an F, do you know what he was at earlier testing this year?  Also, do you know if they made accommodations in the testing?  

4 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

 

I don’t have any idea how this test is scored or normed.  It is not one I am at all familiar with.  The only test I am really familiar with is the Group Reading Assessment & Diagnostic Evaluation, because in my graduate school literacy strategies and intervention class that is what was used.  I could probably administer it just to have a clue where he’s at.

Actually, I am Orton-Gillingham trained.  The school here isn’t familiar with it and doesn’t use it, but I am considering just purchasing All About Reading level 2 and working through it with him at his own pace.  As I said earlier, he grasps things at his own pace, but once he has understanding and skills he keeps it.  It just takes longer to reach mastery.  

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

1 minute ago, Baseballandhockey said:

If he was tested at 4.5 that makes sense.  I actually think test scores aren't reliable at all until about 7 so delaying it might be a good thing long term.  If it's going to be in the early fall, then I would do reading stuff on your own and get those results before I acted on this.  You'll also have another data point with this test. 

I would take the F & P scores more seriously than a test administered in a group.  I know you said he's an F, do you know what he was at earlier testing this year?  Also, do you know if they made accommodations in the testing?  

 

Sorry to keep saying I don’t know 😂.  I asked specifically what level he was reading at in the CSE meeting so I could get appropriate books for him for the summer.  His teacher said they use the F&P levels readers and that he was about an F.  I know he was at a C at the end of last school year, again because I asked in order to get the right level books last summer.  Since that was close or at end of K level anyway I didn’t really think further.  So he has advanced 3 F&P levels this year, but I have no testing scores or information on those. I only know because with all my kids I have asked over the years for summer reading purposes. 

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

You are correct. I initially left that part out because I was trying to get an unbiased view point. His IQ is in the 70s according to the IQ test he took at 3 and basically nonverbal.  So their expectations are low. Mine are not. He does grasp concepts but needs extra time and repetition for mastery.  But once he has grasped a skill or a concept, he never loses it.  It just takes longer and daily repetition for mastery.

 

 

Look at some of the free resources on the Abecedarian website. It is designed for dyslexia, but the big thing about their program is it has MUCH more repetition than other reading programs. Like, a "fluency" page with All About Reading is a page of all different words. They only see each word once, so it is dozens of words on a page. Versus a "fluency" sheet in Abecedarian, that has 4-8 words on it, over and over and over, in random order. Kids with reading struggles NEED that repetition. Their I SPY pages and such are really good too. 

[Drama Llama]

11 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Sorry to keep saying I don’t know 😂.  I asked specifically what level he was reading at in the CSE meeting so I could get appropriate books for him for the summer.  His teacher said they use the F&P levels readers and that he was about an F.  I know he was at a C at the end of last school year, again because I asked in order to get the right level books last summer.  Since that was close or at end of K level anyway I didn’t really think further.  So he has advanced 3 F&P levels this year, but I have no testing scores or information on those. I only know because with all my kids I have asked over the years for summer reading purposes. 

No, it's fine.  I'm not saying you should know!

You can't really count F & P levels like that, because the early levels are designed to be moved through more quickly than the later levels.  

C is the point at which you're just beginning to use beginning to use cues besides context, first letters, pattern, and a handful of high frequency words.  It's a point at which a lot of kids who will end up with a dyslexia diagnosis stall.  So, the fact that he kept moving on from there is good.  

C to F is about a half a year, but it's common for kids who have disabilities that impact reading, either dyslexia, or a speech/language impairment, or ID, to take longer at this stage.  The important thing is that they're moving, and they're getting solid instruction.  

Having said that, I would feel more comfortable with that if he had taken and F & P under standardized conditions and gotten an F, and not just been put in an F reading group because it seems about right.

[math teacher]

Is his re-evaluation already scheduled? Here is my reason for asking. From the time a parent requests testing, the school has a maximum number of days to get the testing done. It is my observation that they use all the days given to them, and services can be delayed in the process. If testing is not already scheduled, I would speak to to Diagnostitian directly, and maybe things can be moved along at a quicker pace. I agree with the others that he needs a reading goal on his IEP.

[Lecka]

Frankly I have a son who I think is making good progress yet he’s so far behind.

I don’t have this feeling like he should

be doing better or is capable

of more. I have a sense that he is making good progress.

 

Well if you have a sense there is progress being left on the table —

I think go for it and advocate.  I have advocated pretty strongly here and there when I have felt there has been a problem.

 

Not all kids make the same progress

and good progress for one kid will

 be sadly inadequate for another kid.

 

I think try to make a case for more.

With my son with moving he is basically in a different category now

and I don’t think its how he would be seen if we had never moved.  Kids

do get reputations.

But at a certain point I would hope if he’s making progress with AAR or Dancing Bears. that would be recognized at school at a certain point.

 

It is very hard for me here because I have things where I feel like I have prepped him so hard and I don’t know if it’s realistic to go off of those “majorly prepped” scores.  And then i

have areas where I think surely they won’t give up but it seems like

It’s just accepted as his personality or aptitude while I think there is maybe progress on the table.

 

Advocating never hurt anything, though.  

 

 

[Lecka]

To be encouraging, my son who has special needs was not really expected to actually learn to read when he was in K/1st, and now he definitely knows how to read.  Yes there are comprehension issues etc etc he can’t read very much volume but as a bottom line can he read?  He can read.  And he is just accepted that way in middle school.  And there are totally kids who can’t read in middle

school in his classes.  
 

So I think it’s worth it to make the effort!

 

To a great extent 1-2 years later nobody knows how hard it was, they just know the skill is present.  

Edited June 26, 2022 by Lecka

[Lecka]

This is for my son whose overall IQ seems to be 75, but his scores range between 65 and 100, with quite a few scores in the mid 80s to 90s and then others in the low 60s.  
 

Those mid 80s to 90s up to 100 scores go a long way as strengths but you don’t see that when there is an average of 75.  

[Kanin]

3 hours ago, AmandaVT said:

Also, this may be a controversial statement, but ignore F&P levels. They are not very meaningful. The texts from level to level vary a very small amount so a student could be reading fluently at a number of different levels. I have seen teachers move a student up 3 levels in a year but the student had not made any actual meaningful reading progress. 

Amen to this! 

[Carol in Cal.]

My guess is that it will be much easier to do AAR with him when he is off for the summer.