Do you ever have one of those "bargaining with the universe" days?

[Jenny in Florida]

(Up front for those who may not know or remember: I've been dealing with depression at varying levels for the last two or three years. I am being treated.)

Look, I often (maybe most days, actually) don't really want to get out of bed and face the day. Some days, I manage to feel more resigned, but today was a rough day. I actually sat on the side of the bed and had a conversation with the powers-that-be in the universe about what I would be willing to give up just so as not to have to even try to be a functional human being today. I eventually decided that I wouldn't give up the health or well-being of another living being, but I would have willingly subjected myself to several days in the hospital experiencing some level of physical pain if it meant avoiding regular life today.

For the record: There wasn't anything special about today, for good or bad. It's just a regular old Tuesday. And, aside from the same old stuff that hangs around me all the time--which I acknowledge is minor compared to what other people cope with a whole lot more gracefully--I'm not carrying any special weight these days. 

I Just. Didn't. Want. To. Do. It.

Anyone else in this zone? How are you coping?

[Starr]

That’s really hard. Sending some love your way. 

[heartlikealion]

Are there things you can take off your plate that you have been programmed to think you can't? Reading your posts in the Well Trained Bodies thread you seem very active to me! Maybe give yourself more "cheat days" so to speak. 

Are there ways you could do a few things in advance so that one day is easier on you? Meal prep or such? I like cooking the night before sometimes so the next day I just have to reheat the food. 

[Grace Hopper]

I wouldn’t say I bargain. But I do some days I feel so overwhelmed and have to actively decide to let the universe take care of itself - even the part of it wrapped around those I love - because I have zero energy for it. 
 

FWIW, I also have had those days that I did not even want to get out of bed. More than I care to admit, today being one of them. I’ve been dealing with some discouraging health issues, so I know that’s part of it. 

[Katy]

It's been a long time since I bargained with God about anything, but I've been there.  I went through a period when I was very sick for a long period of time and had a chronic pain condition that caused severe depression.  I've gotten better.  What helped most at the time was an occupational therapist who recommended practical solutions to improve my quality of life rather than find a cure. I've written posts about her suggestions before, but I can repost what I remember if you're curious.

There's also been a lot of research in the years since suggesting that depression is a natural consequence of brain inflammation for many people.  Things that help that include ridiculous diets I'd be happy to tell you about if you want to know, as well as heat shock proteins (sauna, hot bath, sitting in a car for 20 minutes on a hot day) or the reverse, cold water immersion or cryotherapy.  Both release proteins that dramatically lower inflammation pretty rapidly, and both are probably easier than drastically strict diet changes or fasting when you feel bad.  Combining sitting in a hot shower then jumping in a cold pool or bath may be the best combination, and may be why Nordic people who use sauna and cold sea swimming can survive months of darkness without seasonal depression.

[lauraw4321]

Yes. My depression is usually well controlled, but I sometimes have very bad days due to my cycle. So probably 3-4 times a year I have days like this. If it happens to fall on a weekend, I give in. When I try to push through it ends up worse somehow. Like I end up in a stupid fight with DH or I yell at the kids. So yes. Hugs. 

[Grace Hopper]

Oh and as far as how I cope, I constantly  reassure myself that it’s ok to move at a slower pace. Gosh knows after the last three decades of family life management, I’ve earned it! 
 

Also, as I have the energy, I do start to take on some tasks that seem daunting, especially if it means organizing any sort of visual clutter. Because seeing something set in order seems to help me both emotionally and functionally. Today there’s a closet on my list to clean out. It’s past noon and I haven’t done more than think about it yet, it’s not a huge closet, but it’s a goal. An achievable one for today. 

[Grace Hopper]

4 minutes ago, Katy said:

It's been a long time since I bargained with God about anything, but I've been there.  I went through a period when I was very sick for a long period of time and had a chronic pain condition that caused severe depression.  I've gotten better.  What helped most at the time was an occupational therapist who recommended practical solutions to improve my quality of life rather than find a cure. I've written posts about her suggestions before, but I can repost what I remember if you're curious.

There's also been a lot of research in the years since suggesting that depression is a natural consequence of brain inflammation for many people.  Things that help that include ridiculous diets I'd be happy to tell you about if you want to know, as well as heat shock proteins (sauna, hot bath, sitting in a car for 20 minutes on a hot day) or the reverse, cold water immersion or cryotherapy.  Both release proteins that dramatically lower inflammation pretty rapidly, and both are probably easier than drastically strict diet changes or fasting when you feel bad.  Combining sitting in a hot shower then jumping in a cold pool or bath may be the best combination, and may be why Nordic people who use sauna and cold sea swimming can survive months of darkness without seasonal depression.

What a great idea! I dropped my gym membership and really miss the sauna. This is a great (cheap!) substitute! I will definitely set a timer, though, because I could totally picture myself falling asleep in the car. 

[Harriet Vane]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

It's been a long time since I bargained with God about anything, but I've been there.  I went through a period when I was very sick for a long period of time and had a chronic pain condition that caused severe depression.  I've gotten better.  What helped most at the time was an occupational therapist who recommended practical solutions to improve my quality of life rather than find a cure. I've written posts about her suggestions before, but I can repost what I remember if you're curious.

There's also been a lot of research in the years since suggesting that depression is a natural consequence of brain inflammation for many people.  Things that help that include ridiculous diets I'd be happy to tell you about if you want to know, as well as heat shock proteins (sauna, hot bath, sitting in a car for 20 minutes on a hot day) or the reverse, cold water immersion or cryotherapy.  Both release proteins that dramatically lower inflammation pretty rapidly, and both are probably easier than drastically strict diet changes or fasting when you feel bad.  Combining sitting in a hot shower then jumping in a cold pool or bath may be the best combination, and may be why Nordic people who use sauna and cold sea swimming can survive months of darkness without seasonal depression.

Katy, I'm really curious about this if you've got the time to post. 

[Selkie]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

It's been a long time since I bargained with God about anything, but I've been there.  I went through a period when I was very sick for a long period of time and had a chronic pain condition that caused severe depression.  I've gotten better.  What helped most at the time was an occupational therapist who recommended practical solutions to improve my quality of life rather than find a cure. I've written posts about her suggestions before, but I can repost what I remember if you're curious.

There's also been a lot of research in the years since suggesting that depression is a natural consequence of brain inflammation for many people.  Things that help that include ridiculous diets I'd be happy to tell you about if you want to know, as well as heat shock proteins (sauna, hot bath, sitting in a car for 20 minutes on a hot day) or the reverse, cold water immersion or cryotherapy.  Both release proteins that dramatically lower inflammation pretty rapidly, and both are probably easier than drastically strict diet changes or fasting when you feel bad.  Combining sitting in a hot shower then jumping in a cold pool or bath may be the best combination, and may be why Nordic people who use sauna and cold sea swimming can survive months of darkness without seasonal depression.

Along these same lines, I read about a woman who had suffered for years with severe depression. Then she found out about the cold water thing and tried it, and found that it dramatically alleviates her depression. She bought a big livestock tank (like the 300 gallon one I have for my horses). She fills it with cold water and soaks in it every day, and it has completely changed her life for the better.

[Melissa Louise]

I hear you. 

I've been good for a bit but the last few weeks have been rough. 

I don't know if I cope, so much as endure. I do notice that being outdoors is somewhat relieving. 

A family member and I have a dark joke about each day getting us closer to the Long Sleep. Some days I really need to keep that prospect in mind in order to keep going. 

Life is hard. It's especially hard if you have a brain with wonky wiring. Add family/health issues on top - it's just hard. It's reasonable that some days you just can't face dealing with all of it. 

I think the tricky thing is when you are functional but depressed. Of course you'll go to work. Everyone around you knows it too. There's not a lot of concern for the middle-aged mom sitting on the bed filled with dread at having to perform life again. 

I think it helps me to try to be the compassionate voice that you won't get otherwise. You were an amazing, dedicated mom. Be that mother to yourself. Yes, it's cheesy. 

I mean internal dialogue like this:

(my own head right now)

Hey, I know, it's hard. It's ok, my brave one. I'm here. It's all ok. I've got you. 

~

Right, well I told you it was cheesy!

But worth a try - internal dialogue is a powerful tool. It doesn't so much make you feel less exhausted or depressed, as it does provide inner support to deal with the difficult circumstance. 

In general, finding supportive alliances helps me get through the most - internally, in nature, with a hobby, with objects and texts. 

I honestly hope that things change radically for you soon, and that somehow the depression lifts, or at least remits.

But if it doesn't, I hope you can find the tools that work for you to find a kind of healing process, however imperfect ❤️

 

[Kassia]

I'm sorry you're struggling.  It's hard to go through life this way.

I'm struggling too.  Big big time.  Mentally, physically, emotionally...I'm just raw and feel hopeless and overwhelmed.  I'm fortunate that my DH is so incredibly supportive. 

I hope you can get some relief.  I hate that anyone else feels bad.  

 

[JustEm]

I certainly had that kind of day. I'm so emotionally drained from my mom's strokes and surgery this last week that I couldn't do anything for most of the day. I managed to shower but then realized shortly after that I got back into my dirty clothes after!

The only reason I got anything significant accomplished was because dh knew that prior to the stroke I was excited to try to do a specific something I've never done. But when the part needed came in I just didn't care because of my mom. So, when I asked him what he wanted to do this evening he said 'install the thing.' instinctively I asked 'need help.' and while he normally wouldn't say yes because of my state and not wanting to burden me he said yes I think because he knew I would enjoy the process. He was right.

I replaced a tractor carburetor for the first time ever today! Dh had never done it before either. his uncle, who diagnosed the issues, showed me everything I'd need to do once I ordered the new one. It was pretty straightforward. That accomplishment help changed my mood for the short-term.

[Katy]

5 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

Katy, I'm really curious about this if you've got the time to post. 

 

Sure. The first thing was to get dressed every day in something other than pajamas or yoga pants, even if you don't have it in you to leave bed.  She suggested it could still feel comfortable; a jersey dress can be more comfortable than leggings, and there are plenty of "office appropriate" pants that are so stretchy that they feel like sweats but look totally appropriate to work in a bank. It makes a huge difference psychologically and is certainly easier than say, washing and styling your hair & doing makeup every day, though if those don't wipe out all your energy, try that too.

Next, try to get some gentle exercise daily.  It can be as simple as a slow walk for half an hour.  At the time I was on a drug that made walking without stumbling difficult, but I could handle a recumbent tricycle.  If possible you want this to be close to sunrise, and in nature, preferably a trail along some sort of water with visible trees. Since then I've learned all sorts of science about the compounding effect this has...  Sunrise walks reset your hypothalamus's time to make sleep at night easier.  Nature lowers stress levels.  It relieves trauma. It increases pain tolerance and relieves depression, one study showed it relieved depression equal to a prescription antidepressant.  For me the exercise caused rebound pain afterwards, but while I was exercising I felt great so I stuck with this as long as the weather allowed.

Next, watch something that you find laugh out loud funny every day, as much as possible.  Laughter lowers cortisol, increases pain tolerance, and lowers depression.

Try to do something responsible daily.  This may be only cooking one healthy meal. It may be cleaning the whole house, it totally depends on your health and capacity.  It will give you a sense of control over one small thing.

Try to do something creative that you find interesting at least twice a week. For me it was silly little painting crafts.  Creativity brings joy.  It can be something simple like dancing to music that makes you happy.  Or adult coloring books.  Literally anything creative that you like.

It seems like the list was at least twice that long but that's all that comes to mind right now.

 

Since then I've also learned:

• Reading fiction for half an hour lowers stress hormones more than meditation.
• Anti-inflammatory supplements help my mental health at least as much as my physical health.  I take turmeric, ginger, and cinnamon when I don't feel well.  I find the cheap versions from Walmart are as effective as buying bulk organic spices at Costco and filling empty capsules myself. When I first started experimenting with this I took one of each every 4 hours or so.  In three days I felt so much better I started forgetting to take them.  Now I try to take them instead of an over the counter thing like advil, and maybe for a day or two if I don't feel well. There are two things to know about this: Turmeric is a blood thinner and I do not recommend it in the few days before or during your period.  And regular cinnamon has one compound in it that can be hard on your liver if you take it long term, so if you try this and it makes a huge difference for you and you want to take it daily for a while, buy cassia cinnamon supplements instead.  I can't recall the name of the compound, but it helps.
• Dr Brooke Goldner has a program, she now charges for the initial classes but you can learn all of it for free by watching her YouTube videos or joining her Smoothie facebook group or for a much smaller amount by buying her books from Amazon.  It's crazy strict by any definition...  It's basically raw vegan almost keto. You also need an expensive blender and access to a lot of raw vegetables.  You make green smoothies with a tiny bit of fruit for flavor, tons of flaxseed or chia seed or flax oil, then eat tons of raw vegetables (including avocado) on the side. My gut couldn't handle it at first, I needed to adapt slowly with probiotics, and my ability to follow it varied based on the time of year because it wasn't possible or practical in a rural area in hot months, but when I stick to it for about a month without cheating I experience these waves of... not quite bliss, but intense feelings of well-being.  It sounds ridiculous, but it not only makes me happier, when I do it for even a week my autoimmune pain is gone and I stop getting malar rashes from tiny amounts of sun exposure.
• The hot/cold exposure thing and heat shock proteins are remarkable at a quick change.
• If you can get a doctor to try it I've heard ketamine can quickly stop suicidal ideation.
• If you're on birth control or similar hormones definitely try getting off of them.  They cause depression and anxiety in some women, and in my opinion this is under reported.  It doesn't mean you need to get a different form of birth control.  You may just need a different formula/brand.
• Vitamin D, iodine, and B vitamins can all cause issues.  If you have a certain genetic defect and you eat a lot of processed foods the folic acid in some of them alone can cause a huge amount of inflammation for some people. If you switch to things with natural folate vs synthetic folic acid you might notice a huge improvement.
• If you have bad allergies a low histamine diet can help, but don't rely on lists.  You have to try foods yourself at least 3 times and note your reaction to know if you can tolerate them or if the problem was just high pollen that day.

[wintermom]

Big hugs, Jenny. I hope you have a plan of action in place just in case you feel that actually hurting yourself is going to happen. Get yourself to a place of safety - the closest ER, a trusted friend or neighbour. 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

@Katy - I'm glad you shared that about saunas and heat. The only reason I had a membership at the YMCA was because of the sauna. I would go sit in there for an hour and read. It was the only way I could feel good some days. I just thought it was the intense heat relaxing all of my muscles and making me sleepy but then we got our hot tub and soaking in the hot water had similar side effects. I would sit in there way too long but it made me happy and I was able to tolerate life so much better. I thought it was a fluke or a personality trait.

Our hot tub thermostat went out late last fall and the tub has been winterized and is just sitting there. The parts are expensive and we have debated fixing it this year or waiting until we have a bit of extra money (I have had a lot of vet bills recently). I may need to move it up on the Things To DO list.  We have even discussed getting another YMCA membership for me so I can go use the sauna. We had a heat index of 106 today and I went and sat outside to read. I will have to try sitting in the hot car but only when my DH is home to monitor my time out there as I could see me falling asleep.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Granny_Weatherwax

[mathnerd]

43 minutes ago, Katy said:

Next, watch something that you find laugh out loud funny every day, as much as possible.  Laughter lowers cortisol, increases pain tolerance, and lowers depression.

Try to do something responsible daily. 

These two suggestions work for me all the time. I prepare healthy meals for my son as my responsible thing to do, and I feel good about making that effort afterwards.

Sorry that you are going through this. Sending lot of positive thoughts your way.

[Ausmumof3]

Yeah it’s winter and short days here. I need to get more bright natural light when it’s possible I think. But yeah. 

[Terabith]

I have to ask:  if it’s that bad, would a short stay in psych ward be warranted or helpful?  Or day treatment?

[Jenny in Florida]

Thanks for taking the time to share, @Katy.

One of the things that has been frustrating/saddening for me is that I do all but one of the things on your first list and several of the ones on the second. Regularly. Daily. Diligently. 

I get out of bed, walk with the dog around the nature-adjacent neighborhood we moved into largely because it provides me with nice places to walk, listen to podcasts and audiobooks, take pictures of the wildlife I encounter while walking, do my exercises, feed the dog, take my handfuls of medications and supplements, get dressed, do enough work to make my boss think I'm worth keeping around, eat reasonably healthfully, walk some more, watch some TV, go to bed. 

I take my weekly yoga class at the nature preserve, take assorted academic classes to keep my brain fed, go to the farmers' market with my husband, venture out to walk at parks and trails outside the neighborhood when I have time . . .

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

I'm "functional" most of the time, even though all I'm doing is playing the role of a functional human being.

It just requires so. much. effort to stay that way. And I can't figure out why I should be investing this much effort -- or why all of the other people whom my attitude impacts should have to keep putting up with me -- just to crawl through every day.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Sending gentle hugs, Jenny

 

I understand. Just the other day, I was lying in bed and thought "If I could just go to sleep and not wake up, I would be okay with that." My life is not what I expected and, no matter how hard I try, I cannot escape the feelings of exhaustion, regret, or depression. Wow, I haven't said that out loud in a long while. It doesn't mean I am actively suicidal but just so worn out and weary from trying to be/to do what it appears others do easily and naturally. It seems the more effort I put in to getting better and trying to change, the worse things become. For me, it doesn't help that stupid things keep happening - like the bike crash, or breaking my foot, or having a sick puppy, or not being paid for three months due to a computer glitch that still hasn't been fixed, or heat advisories that preclude outdoor tennis with little children (which was fine because, you know what, I didn't want to get dressed and leave the house anyway).

But, like you, it's lather, rinse, repeat. I'll get dressed and ready (thank goodness being a tennis teacher means athletic clothing is expected and acceptable), put my hair in a pony tail and pop on a visor because that's the only effort I can manage most days. My goal setting is the only thing that keeps me going some days because the sensation of overwhelm and depression is that strong. If I didn't have my goals and monthly steps and journal with visuals, I probably wouldn't get out of bed unless absolutely necessary.

I'm sorry if this sounds like I made it about me. I just want you to know that you are definitely not the only one feeling that way. I wish I had answers for both of us.

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, Jenny in Florida said:

 

It just requires so. much. effort to stay that way. And I can't figure out why I should be investing this much effort -- or why all of the other people whom my attitude impacts should have to keep putting up with me -- just to crawl through every day.

This is how I feel too.  DH is so incredibly supportive and I just feel like a terrible burden to him. I sincerely believe he'd be better off without me.  He insists that's not true but I don't see how it couldn't be. 

 

44 minutes ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

 

 

I understand. Just the other day, I was lying in bed and thought "If I could just go to sleep and not wake up, I would be okay with that." My life is not what I expected and, no matter how hard I try, I cannot escape the feelings of exhaustion, regret, or depression. Wow, I haven't said that out loud in a long while. It doesn't mean I am actively suicidal but just so worn out and weary from trying to be/to do what it appears others do easily and naturally. It seems the more effort I put in to getting better and trying to change, the worse things become. For me, it doesn't help that stupid things keep happening - like the bike crash, or breaking my foot, or having a sick puppy, or not being paid for three months due to a computer glitch that still hasn't been fixed, or heat advisories that preclude outdoor tennis with little children (which was fine because, you know what, I didn't want to get dressed and leave the house anyway).

But, like you, it's lather, rinse, repeat. I'll get dressed and ready (thank goodness being a tennis teacher means athletic clothing is expected and acceptable), put my hair in a pony tail and pop on a visor because that's the only effort I can manage most days. My goal setting is the only thing that keeps me going some days because the sensation of overwhelm and depression is that strong. If I didn't have my goals and monthly steps and journal with visuals, I probably wouldn't get out of bed unless absolutely necessary.

I'm sorry if this sounds like I made it about me. I just want you to know that you are definitely not the only one feeling that way. I wish I had answers for both of us.

This is pretty much exactly what I'm going through and how I feel.  Different circumstances and challenges but same feelings.  Especially the wishing to go to sleep and not wake up and feeling so so weary of it all.

[Jenny in Florida]

@Granny_Weatherwax First, I'm so sorry you are in a similar place. No apology necessary. I specifically asked if anyone else is feeling this way and, if so, how they cope. So your response was entirely appropriate.

Also, yes, that sense of not intending to hurt myself but just feeling sort of wistful about how nice it would be to just . . . not. I feel that all the way down in my bones. 

Thank you for responding.

@Kassia You were posting just as I was typing the above. Again, thank you for sharing your feelings and experiences. I appreciate knowing I'm not flapping in the wind on my own (although I wish for your sake that you weren't out here, too).

Edited June 15, 2022 by Jenny in Florida

[JustEm]

Back to not being able to do anything.  The only thing, other than feed my kids, that I absolutely have to get done today is finish up home school portfolios and submit them.  It is a struggle and they are all 90% done. 2 done and submitted and 2 to go. I'm not getting up until it is done.  But after that I don't know how I'll manage to do anything else.  The only possible motivation is that I have to reorganize things to make sure my house is safe for when my mom comes home. This will require hours of reorganizing so toys are not stored in a location that will easily mean they end up near where she walks.  This should be enough motivation to knock the job out but every time I start I get depressed over why I have to be doing it.  And then the reality that she will likely not be here in ten years, maybe even 5, kicks in.

[Harriet Vane]

Hugs for you all. @Jenny in Florida, I have so much respect for the discipline with which you face each day.