Cessation of SAT Subject Tests

[Roadrunner]

19 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

My teens need the outside nagging so took a 6 week (3.5hrs x 2) summer class and did well enough for AP Statistics exam. It depends on the teacher. Both my teens did AP Macro/Micro economics in the same summer format and they have different teachers but both teachers made their classes fun. Economics if the student understand the concept, there is very little to memorize for the AP exams.

Your kids are extraordinary though. 🥰

[Arcadia]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Your kids are extraordinary though. 🥰

They can be extraordinary lazy though 😂

If you look through the past year FRQs that CollegeBoard posted on their website, you would realize that AP statistics can be easily done either as a crash course and/or as a fun hands on course. The Moore, Yates, Starnes book is a rather dry textbook. My kids teacher only used the textbook for homework assignments. He just teach by writing on the whiteboard. 
Statistics is pretty much a concept thing and useful when reading research papers.

We are going the dual enrollment route for foreign language since my kids rather take two years at community college then try for an AP.

[MamaSprout]

19 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

😔

 

What do you do with a super bright kid who despises competitions and lives in rural areas with few opportunities?

If you figure this out, let me know. Especially when it's last kid at home.

[Roadrunner]

18 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

They can be extraordinary lazy though 😂

If you look through the past year FRQs that CollegeBoard posted on their website, you would realize that AP statistics can be easily done either as a crash course and/or as a fun hands on course. The Moore, Yates, Starnes book is a rather dry textbook. My kids teacher only used the textbook for homework assignments. He just teach by writing on the whiteboard. 
Statistics is pretty much a concept thing and useful when reading research papers.

We are going the dual enrollment route for foreign language since my kids rather take two years at community college then try for an AP.

Foreign language at our CC uses those textbooks with online component and it takes hours to click through those pages and complete them. Total busywork. One of my kid’s tried and we ran as fast as we could. No way either of my kids would want to do this for 2 hours a day for a language they are already conversational in. 

[BookwormTo2]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

What happens now is kids who want to try for semi competitive schools will have to pile up those APs in huge quantities. Before we could chose to do a mixture of AP (when we thought courses were worth taking) and some SAT 2s (for validation). In our personal example, we no longer have an option of taking SAT2 for a foreign language. We don’t want a DE class because they are just tremendous amount of busywork. What is the only remaining option? AP. Makes me want to cry. There are other areas where this is going to directly affect my student. I am not going to play that game and likely pay the price for it. Oh well. 

AP seemed to kill my DD's interest in the subject and she said the AP classes she did had more busy work than her dual enrollment classes. What about taking regionally accredited classes for foreign language? TPS, FLVS, and I am sure there are others you could look into. I can't recall what year your kids are in, but I have heard of some kids doing FLVS Spanish 1 & 2 in less than the 2 years they are normally done, as they had already taken "unaccredited" Spanish. I know FLVS offers other foreign languages. My DD took 2 years of a foreign language via TPS (only classes she took at TPS) and then I called & paid to get their regionally accredited transcript sent to the university to be put in her application file --the process was pretty easy.

[BookwormTo2]

While a lot of universities will likely continue accepting AP exam credit as "validation" of homeschool transcripts, our state flagship will not now -- unless the AP class taken is regionally accredited. 

[Roadrunner]

1 minute ago, BookwormTo2 said:

While a lot of universities will likely continue accepting AP exam credit as "validation" of homeschool transcripts, our state flagship will not now -- unless the AP class taken is regionally accredited. 

May I ask which state? 
that’s worrisome 

[MagistraKennedy]

On 1/19/2021 at 7:54 AM, cintinative said:

As a relative newbie to this whole college game (I have a freshman in high school), I am not sure how to process this. What do you homeschool veterans think?  I am not even to the point of identifying potential colleges, although I know one of the local ones (not likely to be on our list) required the SAT subject test for biology.  

Is it wrong for me to sigh that we are pushing APs so hard? At least when I was in school (you know, back in the age of the dinosaurs), AP meant you were a very intelligent kid, an exceptional student. Where is the path for the "normal" kid here? Or am I just misinterpreting all of this?

Not much to add, except I am in your boat. Big AP push when I was in high school. 

 

Like you ... I want to know what's the path for normal kids. 😭

[MagistraKennedy]

On 1/19/2021 at 10:20 AM, cintinative said:

 

So your take is that CB is bringing down the level of AP from what it was, say, 25 years ago?  That the AP designation is not super meaningful?  

What are the colleges thinking about this?  Do you think they see that it is not as meaningful anymore?

I have friends whose kids are taking five or six AP classes. And it "seems" like it is much more common to take AP than it was when I was in school in the 90's.   

Maybe this is another thread?

This is so odd to me. 

 

Back in the day, we didn't take AP courses until Junior year. 

 

It makes me think of that line from the Incredibles ..." When everyone's special, then no one is special." 

[cintinative]

Just now, MagistraKennedy said:

 

 

It makes me think of that line from the Incredibles ..." When everyone's special, then no one is special." 

I keep thinking of this also.  If everyone is exceptional, no one really is.

Personally, I am not sure how to process all of this.  The only AP class I had in school was Spanish III and I didn't take the exam.  When I was in school, it was the very high-achieving/gifted kids that took APs.  

Stepping on the soap box: I am personally feeling very averse to entering the rat-race. My cousin's kids have taken five to seven APs per year in high school.  So have my brother's kids. When I look at what my brother's kids have had to do, the first word that comes to mind is "work-horse."  Cause of death:  homework.  I don't want that for my kids. I don't see how it has added value to their education.  His kids are both gifted.  Where is the challenge to their gifted brains?  Has it made them think on a higher level about the subject at hand? It doesn't seem like it.  It really seems like it's all about learning "the right things" so that they can do well on the AP exam, or in the case of some classes, not do well, because the teacher didn't prepare them.   Personally, I am sad when I think about all the "free time" my niece and nephew have lost over the years because their school's "gifted track" seems to be more about quantity of output than quality.  Fifty pages of algebra "packet" taking about 40 minutes per page, and over Christmas break, is not okay.  Stepping off soap-box.

Possibly another thread, but I recall it being said on in my circles that not all schools accept all APs, so the other factor is that you could jump through all those hoops, get your AP scores and then end up not being able to use them at your school of choice.  I suppose some people go into it knowing that, but I really wonder if some parents will get to the college application process and be disappointed.

[GoodGrief3]

7 hours ago, cintinative said:

From the NY Times this morning.  Cue eyeroll !:  

David Coleman, the chief executive officer of the College Board, said the organization’s goal was not to get more students to take A.P. courses and tests, but to eliminate redundant exams, thereby reducing the burden on high school students applying to college.

“Anything that can reduce unnecessary anxiety and get out of the way is of huge value to us,” he said."

 

 

The redundant exam did help my daughter the year that we absolutely could not find a World History AP testing location without flying a couple thousand miles. I get what he is saying, because the number of tests a top student typically has to undergo is silly.  But, ugh, the logistics of AP exam location.

Editing to clarify, my daughter took the World History SAT subject test instead of AP exam, because it was absolutely not available in our area the year she took the course as a homeschooler, and we live in a geographically remote state.

Edited January 20, 2021 by GoodGrief3

[GoodGrief3]

4 hours ago, BookwormTo2 said:

 I contacted our flagship university, which had until recently a reasonable requirement of homeschoolers -- 2 validations per core subject.

Yikes, that is quite the requirement. Not sure I have heard of that level of required validation anywhere before.

[GoodGrief3]

36 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Possibly another thread, but I recall it being said on in my circles that not all schools accept all APs, so the other factor is that you could jump through all those hoops, get your AP scores and then end up not being able to use them at your school of choice.  I suppose some people go into it knowing that, but I really wonder if some parents will get to the college application process and be disappointed.

I think the vast majority of college bound kids are not taking AP classes for the credits so much, but for meeting the standard of taking the most rigorous courses offered at the school. The Common App asks a question about rigor specifically, and how the student's rigor compares to others at the school.

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, MagistraKennedy said:

Not much to add, except I am in your boat. Big AP push when I was in high school. 

 

Like you ... I want to know what's the path for normal kids. 😭

I really wish regular school courses were better. It’s sad really, but private schools do a good job creating alternatives to APs in English/history. At least here APs still rule in math/science. PS kids can take honors courses but the academically motivated kids end up in APs and therefore honors courses aren’t really honors since they tend to be filled with kids who aren’t as interested in academics. Regular ones are for very struggling kids. 😞 

[Roadrunner]

5 minutes ago, GoodGrief3 said:

Yikes, that is quite the requirement. Not sure I have heard of that level of required validation anywhere before.

Wait a second, 2 validation PER course? OMG. What would that even involve?! 
 

Is it just me or does it feel like being a homeschooler is getting harder?
 

[GoodGrief3]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

Wait a second, 2 validation PER course? OMG. What would that even involve?! 
 

Is it just me or does it feel like being a homeschooler is getting harder?
 

It's a really atypical requirement.

[MamaSprout]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

I really wish regular school courses were better. It’s sad really, but private schools do a good job creating alternatives to APs in English/history. At least here APs still rule in math/science. PS kids can take honors courses but the academically motivated kids end up in APs and therefore honors courses aren’t really honors since they tend to be filled with kids who aren’t as interested in academics. Regular ones are for very struggling kids. 😞 

This is true, and has been for some time. My homeschooled dd is the youngest of 4, the oldest of which is 28. They did DE classes pretty much exclusively after 10th grade until the public high school said they couldn't do sports unless they took at least one class at the school. They were good students, but not necessarily gifted. The regular high school class was clearly remedial. It was bad. Underlining prepositions-in-sentences-in-12th-grade-bad.

[Roadrunner]

1 minute ago, GoodGrief3 said:

It's a really atypical requirement.

Maybe they didn’t mean it.  😂

If I knew which school, I would call and inquire just out of curiosity and ask them for advice on how to go about it. 🤣🤣🤣

 

And I always though universities not located on coastlines were much more reasonable. 

[Roadrunner]

2 minutes ago, MamaSprout said:

This is true, and has been for some time. My homeschooled dd is the youngest of 4, the oldest of which is 28. They did DE classes pretty much exclusively after 10th grade until the public high school said they couldn't do sports unless they took at least one class at the school. They were good students, but not necessarily gifted. The regular high school class was clearly remedial. It was bad. Underlining prepositions-in-sentences-in-12th-grade-bad.

That’s a generous DE policy. Our local high school only allows one DE class per year. Yep. Per year. 
 

DE can really work, but it can also be tricky. There is a teacher at our CC (science course) that grades on 3 exams with 4 questions on each. You really can’s afford a single oopsie. It’s a risk for sure because you get stuck with grades that will follow you forever. But it can also be very rewarding. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Roadrunner

[MamaSprout]

3 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

That’s a generous DE policy. Our local high school only allows one DE class per year. Yep. Per year. 

It's not the current policy. My older kids broke the system. At this point it is virtually impossible to take DE classes off campus as a public school student in our area or be a homeschooler and participate in sports. ETA: Under the current rules, our "public school" graduate kids would now be considered homeschoolers.

Edited January 20, 2021 by MamaSprout

[GoodGrief3]

3 hours ago, daijobu said:

I don't think the loss of SAT subject tests will affect high achieving, wealthier students  who can show achievement with other contests, research, or other activities.  It will affect students applying to less competitive schools with admissions departments that need to distinguish students who have earned their high school diploma from those who have not.  

I tend to agree. It seems to me that among the various things used to flesh out a student's application and help a student stand out, test scores are one that is more cost effective and generally accessible. Sports...expensive, especially if done to the level that one stands out among peers, and high risk of injury. Volunteer hours...awesome character development, but can be tricky for a kid without reliable transportation and heavy duties at home. Essays...seems you will run into the same "prep" issues that people complain about with standardized tests. Dual enrollment...free in some states but not all, and not all courses available online, so transportation can be an issue. Competitions for awards...generally $$$$ and time that a student with responsibilities at home may not have.

[GoodGrief3]

6 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Maybe they didn’t mean it.  😂

If I knew which school, I would call and inquire just out of curiosity and ask them for advice on how to go about it. 🤣🤣🤣

 

And I always though universities not located on coastlines were much more reasonable. 

I don't think any Ivy League universities even have that requirement

[GoodGrief3]

8 minutes ago, MamaSprout said:

This is true, and has been for some time. My homeschooled dd is the youngest of 4, the oldest of which is 28. They did DE classes pretty much exclusively after 10th grade until the public high school said they couldn't do sports unless they took at least one class at the school. They were good students, but not necessarily gifted. The regular high school class was clearly remedial. It was bad. Underlining prepositions-in-sentences-in-12th-grade-bad.

The public school system here has created an entire "school" where high school students take college classes exclusively. It's very popular, but my observation is that it really has not improved the reputation of our local university. It's not like it's the most brilliant kids who can't get their needs met in a traditional school are taking the classes. It's more like regular high school classes on an alternative schedule.

[Roadrunner]

3 minutes ago, GoodGrief3 said:

I tend to agree. It seems to me that among the various things used to flesh out a student's application and help a student stand out, test scores are one that is more cost effective and generally accessible. Sports...expensive, especially if done to the level that one stands out among peers, and high risk of injury. Volunteer hours...awesome character development, but can be tricky for a kid without reliable transportation and heavy duties at home. Essays...seems you will run into the same "prep" issues that people complain about with standardized tests. Dual enrollment...free in some states but not all, and not all courses available online, so transportation can be an issue. Competitions for awards...generally $$$$ and time that a student with responsibilities at home may not have.

Yet UC system thinks holistic admissions that look at extracurriculars, sports, volunteering, and all the other things done outside of classroom will bring equity to admissions. 😉 But testing is the only thing that favored rich. 
Everything favors rich. 

 

[GoodGrief3]

3 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

and oh boy, we were thinking of AP CS A. I am hoping eimacs course is OK. 😞 

I can’t take another failure like stats. 

It might be fine. My daughter (zero comp sci experience, so probably needed a "dumbed down course") took AP Comp Sci A her senior year of high school through AP Homeschoolers. It led to her rocking lots of comp sci at Princeton and TAing many classes. 🙂 She's currently working a remote comp sci job while waiting for grad school apps to process.

[cintinative]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Yet UC system thinks holistic admissions that look at extracurriculars, sports, volunteering, and all the other things done outside of classroom will bring equity to admissions. 😉 But testing is the only thing that favored rich. 
Everything favors rich. 

 

We are solidly middle class and I have never wanted for anything we really and truly needed, yet I feel this.  I see that others will have different opportunities because we don't have the money to chase them.

[GoodGrief3]

3 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Yet UC system thinks holistic admissions that look at extracurriculars, sports, volunteering, and all the other things done outside of classroom will bring equity to admissions. 😉 But testing is the only thing that favored rich. 
Everything favors rich. 

 

I keep thinking about the shy kids too. Testing is an area where one can demonstrate strengths without...leading a club, for example.

[cintinative]

26 minutes ago, GoodGrief3 said:

The Common App asks a question about rigor specifically, and how the student's rigor compares to others at the school.

How do you answer this as a homeschooler? I am curious.

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

I keep thinking of this also.  If everyone is exceptional, no one really is.

Personally, I am not sure how to process all of this.  The only AP class I had in school was Spanish III and I didn't take the exam.  When I was in school, it was the very high-achieving/gifted kids that took APs.  

Stepping on the soap box: I am personally feeling very averse to entering the rat-race. My cousin's kids have taken five to seven APs per year in high school.  So have my brother's kids. When I look at what my brother's kids have had to do, the first word that comes to mind is "work-horse."  Cause of death:  homework.  I don't want that for my kids. I don't see how it has added value to their education.  His kids are both gifted.  Where is the challenge to their gifted brains?  Has it made them think on a higher level about the subject at hand? It doesn't seem like it.  It really seems like it's all about learning "the right things" so that they can do well on the AP exam, or in the case of some classes, not do well, because the teacher didn't prepare them.   Personally, I am sad when I think about all the "free time" my niece and nephew have lost over the years because their school's "gifted track" seems to be more about quantity of output than quality.  Fifty pages of algebra "packet" taking about 40 minutes per page, and over Christmas break, is not okay.  Stepping off soap-box.

Possibly another thread, but I recall it being said on in my circles that not all schools accept all APs, so the other factor is that you could jump through all those hoops, get your AP scores and then end up not being able to use them at your school of choice.  I suppose some people go into it knowing that, but I really wonder if some parents will get to the college application process and be disappointed.

And if everyone who's minimally capable is taking the possibly dumbed-down AP level courses, I have a bad feeling what's left-over is not even 'college-prep' anymore, no matter how they label it.

My db is an AP teacher at a soul-crushingly competitive high school.  The kind where all the kids think they're Ivy bound and many stressed to the point of self-harm.  Everyone's super-snooty that they go there.  Db did not push his own kids to enter the rat race, and they took few to no honors classes, even.  One took AP environmental sci, but nothing else. But then when they got to college, they were both woefully not prepared.  I think somehow they thought that just being at the competitive high school made one prepared - but I think that what might instead happen is not much attention is paid to the non-competitive classes.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Matryoshka

[daijobu]

I just remembered where the SAT subject test came in handy for us, quite unexpectedly.  After middle school, dd enrolled in a regular high school.  She wanted to take their AP bio class, but were refusing to allow her in.  Finally we submitted a high SAT bio test score from middle school and they let her in.  

My advice to homeschooling families had always been to take the SAT subject test in the May or June after the corresponding high school class, just in case.  Take 1 year of high school biology and then take the SAT bio test.  Take 1 year of precalculus and then take the Level 2 SAT math test.     If the student was paying attention in class, it should be an easy 700++, and a quick way to validate a grade.  It's too bad that isn't available anymore. 

CLEP unfortunately suffers from a poor reputation among high achieving students.  I'm not familiar with the exams, but this may be a good opportunity for whoever runs CLEP to fill the gap.  Wait, College Board runs CLEP too!  AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! 😡

[Matryoshka]

10 minutes ago, daijobu said:

  Wait, College Board runs CLEP too!  AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! 😡

This. 🙄🤬

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

I keep thinking of this also.  If everyone is exceptional, no one really is.

Personally, I am not sure how to process all of this.  The only AP class I had in school was Spanish III and I didn't take the exam.  When I was in school, it was the very high-achieving/gifted kids that took APs.  

Stepping on the soap box: I am personally feeling very averse to entering the rat-race. My cousin's kids have taken five to seven APs per year in high school.  So have my brother's kids. When I look at what my brother's kids have had to do, the first word that comes to mind is "work-horse."  Cause of death:  homework.  I don't want that for my kids. I don't see how it has added value to their education.  His kids are both gifted.  Where is the challenge to their gifted brains?  Has it made them think on a higher level about the subject at hand? It doesn't seem like it.  It really seems like it's all about learning "the right things" so that they can do well on the AP exam, or in the case of some classes, not do well, because the teacher didn't prepare them.   Personally, I am sad when I think about all the "free time" my niece and nephew have lost over the years because their school's "gifted track" seems to be more about quantity of output than quality.  Fifty pages of algebra "packet" taking about 40 minutes per page, and over Christmas break, is not okay.  Stepping off soap-box.

Possibly another thread, but I recall it being said on in my circles that not all schools accept all APs, so the other factor is that you could jump through all those hoops, get your AP scores and then end up not being able to use them at your school of choice.  I suppose some people go into it knowing that, but I really wonder if some parents will get to the college application process and be disappointed.

I feel the same. 
I often think about the state of our current educational system and look at others. While I know each system has it’s issues, I am starting to really like the British approach where college bound kids get to concentrate on 3-4 subjects the last two years. I would rather have a system like that that allows for depth of the material than an AP rat race of quantity that we often see in American schools during junior and senior years. Or maybe it just seems like a more sensible option from far away because I don’t have a personal experience with a British system. 

[Lilaclady]

28 minutes ago, daijobu said:

 

CLEP unfortunately suffers from a poor reputation among high achieving students.  I'm not familiar with the exams, but this may be a good opportunity for whoever runs CLEP to fill the gap.  Wait, College Board runs CLEP too!  AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! 😡

I am not sure if it suffers a poor reputation or that most selective schools don’t accept it. My first daughter didn’t take any because her top 3 schools won’t accept them. 
for my current 10th grader, some will accept and some won’t so I want her to wait till she is close to application/ acceptance before taking it if she does. 

[MagistraKennedy]

23 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

This. 🙄🤬

Yup. I considered that already. Maybe I'm the harbinger of doom, but all of this is interconnected ..... College Board, CLEP, AP,  SAT/ACT, etc. 

 

And this begs to question ...

 What is the true purpose of our kids going to college? Explore passions? Train for a job? Extension of high school? 

 

All of this is muddying the water for me. 😭

[frogger]

55 minutes ago, daijobu said:

.

CLEP unfortunately suffers from a poor reputation among high achieving students.  I'm not familiar with the exams, but this may be a good opportunity for whoever runs CLEP to fill the gap.  Wait, College Board runs CLEP too!  AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! 😡

My son took a ton of CLEPs just to get out of classes he didn't want to focus on. He wasn't aiming at Ivy league though. He didn't have anything to make him stand out and ended up tuition free at UAH. They are super easy basic knowledge tests. I can't imagine them impressing anyone. 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

15 minutes ago, Lilaclady said:

I am not sure if it suffers a poor reputation or that most selective schools don’t accept it. My first daughter didn’t take any because her top 3 schools won’t accept them. 
for my current 10th grader, some will accept and some won’t so I want her to wait till she is close to application/ acceptance before taking it if she does. 

CLEP exams are funny things.  They go through periods of states wanting colleges to offer more credit for them bc they are the "everyman has access exam" including self-study.  Then they go through periods of disfavor and the number that Us accept drop way down.  When my current college freshman took 3 clep exams during high school, the ones she took were accepted at her top college.d  By her sr yr, guess what?  No longer giving credit.  Basically, accepted scores and/or accepted exams are fluid from yr to yr.

*****************************************************

In terms of the discussion around APs or not, we have opted to not.   Academic excellence through indepth studies around subject matter that matters to them is my only objective.  It has enabled my kids to be successful applicants and college students.  My current college freshman is in her school's honors college.  She ended last semester with something like 98s in almost every class.  She was surrounded by kids who were flunking in the honors classes.  I have no idea what is passing as great public educations, but obviously it doesn't translate well into the college classroom.  (My college kids in general have witnessed similar things.  Top hihg school kids struggling with the transition to actual college work loads.)

[MamaSprout]

I do think CLEP is having an upward swing in the Midwest. For better or for worse, Purdue is promoting them (take 5 CLEPs for guaranteed admission). ETA this may just be for Indiana students? Either way they currently look favorably on them.

I like that we can study a subject in depth our own way, then add on a little CLEP prep at the end for mommy-grade verification. There also seems to a nod for them for foreign languages. Dd plans to take the French one this summer after she finishes French 3. She could get up to 9 credits for one exam if she scores high enough, depending on the university.

Edited January 21, 2021 by MamaSprout

[Clemsondana]

1 hour ago, GoodGrief3 said:

I think the vast majority of college bound kids are not taking AP classes for the credits so much, but for meeting the standard of taking the most rigorous courses offered at the school. The Common App asks a question about rigor specifically, and how the student's rigor compares to others at the school.

I hate filling out Common App recommendations for that reason.  I have anywhere from 15-40 students a year in Bio 1.  The form asks me to rate students as in the top 1%, 5%, etc.  But, I can't honestly rank more than 2-3 students EVER as top 1% and 10-15 as top 5% because...math, percentages, and all that jazz...but every year I have 2-5 students that I could recommend for any school and for at least half of them I could write good recommendations for most schools.  I've taught and TA'd the freshman college bio classes, so when I say that some of my high schoolers do more challenging work than what was given in college I know what it means...and yet I don't have any way to say 'This student is more capable than 95% of the students who are currently taking freshman bio, but are not in the top 5% of MY students'.  If students only want to apply to a few places, I'd rather fill out separate forms for each school.

My favorite recommendation was for a college that asked questions like 'Is this student capable of doing college level work?' and asked for an example.  It was great because I could do excellent recommendations for good students who, as with most students who do well in my class, go on to do well in college.  

From what I've seen locally in public schools with AP, they seem to add a TON of busywork.  We're planning to do a few AP exams, mostly in science or math where there is less weird prep, but I've been unwilling to change our plans to fit with AP syllabi or requirements.  

[Roadrunner]

I wonder if ACT will get into an AP type race eventually and if they will develop their own set of subject exams. Standardized testing seems to be on the way out, so if they want to stay in business, they need to find another way to make money. I would welcome an alternative to APs. 

[Lilaclady]

In all honesty, I will really like some standardization in college applications but this is America and I doubt that it can happen. 

it is very frustrating when students and parents have to do much gymnastics trying to meet an ever shifting requirement for admission- this school wants subject tests- this one doesn’t but want to see rigor demonstrated through AP or DE- this one will give you 3 credits for this course but this other one will give you 9 credits for the same course- this one will accept Clep, this one won’t and on and on. It’s quite frustrating and confusing just a waste of energy and increase in anxiety and confusion for students ha!!!! 

[madteaparty]

22 hours ago, Hoggirl said:

They don’t.  The College Board cares about $$$. 

It’s a private corporation, of course they do.
I find it funny that we are anti test, anti common core, anti-“big-government” and then begrudge a private entity for acting like one. 

[MamaSprout]

7 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

It’s a private corporation, of course they do.
I find it funny that we are anti test, anti common core, anti-“big-government” and then begrudge a private entity for acting like one. 

I think some people are, but what I'm hearing is mostly that people are alarmed that the College Board has so much power to determine our student's future. We're playing the game... a little ...because we lack other options.

I'm agonizing over what options we do have for next year, but that's another thread and usually results in snark about advanced kids. sigh.

Edited January 20, 2021 by MamaSprout

[8filltheheart]

7 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

It’s a private corporation, of course they do.
I find it funny that we are anti test, anti common core, anti-“big-government” and then begrudge a private entity for acting like one. 

I wouldnt care what CB did if they didn't have a monopoly on college admissions through exams not available through any other entity.

[madteaparty]

Just now, 8filltheheart said:

I wouldnt care what CB did if they didn't have a monopoly on college admissions through exams not available through any other entity.

Say, if we had a viable state or federal exam for example? 

[8filltheheart]

10 minutes ago, Lilaclady said:

In all honesty, I will really like some standardization in college applications but this is America and I doubt that it can happen. 

it is very frustrating when students and parents have to do much gymnastics trying to meet an ever shifting requirement for admission- this school wants subject tests- this one doesn’t but want to see rigor demonstrated through AP or DE- this one will give you 3 credits for this course but this other one will give you 9 credits for the same course- this one will accept Clep, this one won’t and on and on. It’s quite frustrating and confusing just a waste of energy and increase in anxiety and confusion for students ha!!!! 

Welcome to college admissions. It isnt new. My first high school grad graduated in 2007.  

[8filltheheart]

1 minute ago, madteaparty said:

Say, if we had a viable state or federal exam for example? 

Exams connected to specific curriculum is not a solution which is what they'd produce vs generic knowledge which is what subject tests offered.

[cintinative]

1 minute ago, 8filltheheart said:

Exams connected to specific curriculum is not a solution which is what they'd produce vs generic knowledge which is what subject tests offered.

Is that what the end of course exams are? My niece and nephew have to take them at their public school in FL.

[8filltheheart]

Just now, cintinative said:

Is that what the end of course exams are? My niece and nephew have to take them at their public school in FL.

Yes. 

[Roadrunner]

8 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

Exams connected to specific curriculum is not a solution which is what they'd produce vs generic knowledge which is what subject tests offered.

It doesn’t have to be though. 
why can’t they develop generic knowledge ones? If CB can do it, others could do it as well.

Germany has Abitur. France has bac

Edited January 20, 2021 by Roadrunner

[8filltheheart]

6 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

It doesn’t have to be though. 
why can’t they develop generic knowledge ones? If CB can do it, others could do it as well.

Germany has Abitur. France has bac

Bc states have a vested interest in presenting their students well. If federal, I suspect it would be a power grab to control a federal curriculum.

As much as I dislike CB, I dislike any trending toward controlled curriculum. Complicated admissions scenarios would be the least of my concerns at that pt. I wont relinquish control of content. My homeschool. My standards. Superior in every way to anything politicians and modern educators profess to embrace.