S/o elder years

[bethben]

What do you do if your in-laws are not close distance to either of their children?  And what do you do if their true desire is to move even further away from the one son who is 100 miles away?  How do you reasonable watch out for them if they need assistance?

[Innisfree]

Are they fully competent now? Can you ask what their plans are?

It's a tricky conversation, I know. And it's perhaps easier for them to say, in the abstract, now, that they don't expect to need help, than for you all to watch the eventual train wreck when they *do* need help and are far away.

How close do you think they are to needing help? Five years out would be a different conversation than twenty years out. If it's less than five, I think I'd be urging them to consider moving closer to at least one child.

[bethben]

They are probably five years out from needing some sort of assistance (most likely just a assisted living type situation where help is available if needed).  They are both in good health but driving will probably be the thing that interrupts their plan.  Their current house will also.  The garage is on the basement level, the living and kitchen on the main floor are in two different levels and the bedrooms are in the upper floor.  They both admit it’s becoming an issue. Both are showing signs of starting to forget things.  We have talked and talked with them about their plans to no avail.  Their current very loose plan is to move back to Arizona where they have many friends.  We live in central Colorado and my brother in law lives in Los Angeles.  He works 60-80 hours a week, my DH is probably around 50-55 and we have a disabled son.  Neither of the families has the capability to drop everything to go help for anything bigger than huge emergencies.  I have told my mother in law that she wouldn’t really wreck my life course if they needed more help since I’m already taking care of someone.  She’s willing to move here if she has dementia because she hates being cold and would rather not be mentally aware of where she is living if it involves snow.  It’s frustrating.  

[Farrar]

Honestly, unless there's other extended family or a very strong community that they're a deep part of (such as a church community that really looks after them), I think this is a recipe for the following less than ideal situation... the elderly relatives decline in some way until an accident happens and they either die, possibly earlier than they would have otherwise or you have to swoop in and move them out of their community, possibly even by legal force. I mean, you do what you can, but...

I wish people would think more about these things. This is basically what happened to dh's grandmother, who insisted she not leave her home and basically became a shut in. Then there was an incident. And she was forced to go. And she ended up unhappily living out her last couple of years in a nursing home far from her community. It can be really hard, but the ideal situation would have been if she had moved several years earlier to somewhere that was more of an assisted living place, aged in place there near relatives, and had time to build more of a network of friends there before she had declined so much that she was basically unable to do so.

[bethben]

1 hour ago, Patty Joanna said:

Also, are they looking to move farther away from one son because that is where they want to go, or are they trying to get farther away from son?  That makes a difference, too. 

And agreeing with Innisfree, upthread, re: her questions.  

 

They like their other son also.  They just have friends who are also their age in Arizona.  

[bethben]

We have a ton of assisted living/retirement communities near us.  Really nice apartment places that can provide activities and transportation if needed while you live in an apartment on the complex.  Places that offer tons of social opportunities.  We had an elderly friend move to one of them after living in the same house for 40 years.  She loves being social and there’s always something to do around her complex.  I think they would enjoy a place like that and could afford it, but are wanting something like they had when they were 20 years younger.  I hope it never gets to a point where they are forced into a situation they don’t want.  

[Carrie12345]

My mother refuses to talk about it, and it makes me insane. My stepfather’s health is pretty rough and my mother isn’t exactly “fit and healthy” in her mid 60s, and won’t be at 70.  One of my sisters lives with them because she can’t take care of herself reliably, or her daughter, never mind our parents. My other sister lives within an hour, but is a single mom to small children, unsure of what the future holds.

I live about 800 miles away, about an hour from our hometown.  I didn’t want to go with them when they moved, and I don’t want to ever. I’d love to have them back up here if they ever change their mind. I’m not in control of that, or what they’ll do instead.

[Shoeless]

I think there's only so much you can do from long distance.  You can have some hard conversations about what their plans are and what their expectations are for when they need care.  You may need to have several conversations to get to the bottom of what they expect of you.  Be prepared to burst some bubbles.      

(Insert All About Me Vent Here, lol) -> It took a lot of poking for my father to finally admit that he expected one of his children to move in with him and care for him until he needs to go to a nursing home. Unfortunately, he did not articulate this until *after* he bought a giant, 4 bedroom, 3 bathroom bi-level home that is in the middle of nowhere.  The home was purchased against my recommendation.  I thought it was insane to "downsize" to a house that was twice the size of his old one.  He's not worried about falling down the stairs or driving because he assumes one of us will move in and handle all that for him.  Laundry in the basement? No worries, he'll have one of his live-in kids wash his clothes so he won't ever have to take the stairs.  Can't drive? No problem, someone else will do it for him.  Not to be a crab a$$ about it, but if you expect someone to uproot themselves, their kids, their spouse, and move 90 minutes away from their jobs to take care of you?  You really need to include them in the conversation if you want their cooperation.  It's a Big Ask.  A really, really big ask, and you will probably need to compromise a bit.  It's not fair to expect everyone else to adapt their lives to yours.   

I couldn't understand why he kept insisting I tell him whether I liked the kitchen because "I figure you 'girls' will be cooking in it more than me".  Huh? Why would I be cooking in *your* kitchen more than you?  I don't live here....ooooooohhhhh.  No, dawg, I'm not moving in. Nice try.                 

Edited May 1, 2019 by MissLemon

[bethben]

The people they want to live near in a “few more years” are their age.  No one will be watching out for them because everyone will be in a similar situation.  I get it.  I’m not sure that when I hit my mid seventies, I would want to go live near where my children live if it meant leaving connections we had for 20 years.  We just recently did that to move here and it’s taken us four years to get settled.  BUT, I hope I remember the stress it puts on your kids to have parents who are starting to show their age and still deny it.  My in-laws moved to be closer to his mom and aunt who were getting older (my father in law was able to/forced to retire at 54).  They wanted to make the move though to get away from snow.  We don’t have that luxury right now to do the same.  

[bethben]

My mother in the other hand has been very practical.  She moved to a town where she can walk everywhere including her church.  The town is also where two of my sisters live-one lives a 10 minute walk away and has been called when my mom needs help.  She is also the sister that is the sister who has designated herself as the one who will make sure all my mom’s needs will be taken care of.  My mom also made sure the house she bought had a full bath and bedroom on the main floor in case she needed such a thing.  I have no worries about her.  

Edited May 1, 2019 by bethben

[mom2scouts]

I'm not sure it's possible to convince parents that it's to their advantage to move or stay closer to their adult children. I wish I could convince my parents to move to our town. My dad is turning 80 in a couple of weeks and has some health problems. Mom is 76 and is ridiculously healthy. She may be in better shape than me. She shovels snow, drives, mows the lawn weekly in the summer, mulches the flower beds, and keeps the house spotless. The problem is that she frequently needs help with modern daily life. She bought a new car and has called me multiple times every single morning of the past week (waking me) because she can't figure out how settings on the onboard computer work and something is beeping or not beeping or lights are coming on or...something. She's a perfectionist and the smallest house repair becomes something she needs fixed immediately. She calls me constantly asking about what needs to be done, whether we can fix it, or who she should call to get it repaired. She calls me for detailed instructions about how to use her cell phone (over and over). She calls me about her banking. Have you ever tried to balance a checkbook over the phone? She calls me to "get on the computer" and find information for her. She refuses to get a computer or understand how they work and she thinks they can instantly tell you everything about everything. Going to her house to help her takes 3 hours or more and that's hard because we still have kids at home. They have nothing holding them to their current city other than they've been there for a long time. They have few friends, don't really love their house, don't go to church, don't volunteer, and aren't in any clubs or social groups, but I still can't convince them that I could help with those things if they 1) didn't take 3 hours, or 2) I didn't have to try to solve all her problems over the phone.

[Garga]

When I was 21 my parents moved out west to New Mexico.  They were younger than I am now and I didn’t think much of it.  I missed them, but didn’t really think about “elder care” for 40-somethings.

When my oldest was born, they moved back here for 2 years, and then a month after my youngest was born, they moved away again, this time a little farther to Arizona.  But now they were in their mid-50s.  First thought: what will happen when they’re old and need care?

I don’t think they thought about it at all.

Fast forward to now, 14 years after they moved the second time and my father was diagnosed with cancer less than 2 months ago.  And my mother has been falling apart.  At one point, my dad called to tell me that they needed me to fly out there to drive him to a city that’s 2 hours from them for him to have surgery.  Um....what?  Drop everything and fly 2500 miles to drive them 2 hours from their home?  So bizarre.

I think that only now they are realizing that they shouldn’t have moved away from their only child.  Fortunately, my mother’s sister and husband live a block away from them and have been handling driving them to all my dad’s appointments (radiation, etc.). The sister and her husband are 7 and 12 years older than my parents, so ... I dunno.  The four of them are between 68 and 81 years old and only have each other to depend on.  So far they’re muddling through. 

I do think it was a distressing wake up call to them when I didn’t immediately say, “I’ll be on the next plane to drive you to the doctor!”  I mean, it’s just not sustainable for me to fly back and forth to drive them places.  (um..duh.).  I could at most visit and help them out for a couple of weeks, but then I’d have to go back home.  They really can’t expect to rely on me for anything right now.

My in-laws have been wonderful.  They sold their house and moved into a retirement community where the community takes care of everything for them: mowing, replacing light bulbs, activities.  Should they need it as they age, they can move from the independent living house they’re in, to an apartment complex with medical staff on hand that checks in on them daily, or even a full nursing home if necessary.  So wise.  They asked us, “If we sell the house to move in here, you’ll lose a lot of your inheritance.” And we were like, “Hey, knowing that you’re taken care of if you get frail and need help is worth it.”

Edited May 1, 2019 by Garga

[Laura Corin]

I think that you need to talk to them about what they expect you to do if/when they need help.  Often people age in place until there is a crisis (hospital admission, often) at which point they either have to move to be near family at a moment of great distress, or they have to move into a care home in a location where no family can keep an eye on them.  I'd have a list of questions to tease out their expectations, what do they expect you to do if one of them:

- needs to go to regular medical appointments but can't drive

- needs help with household tasks (replacing lightbulbs, mowing lawns)

- goes into hospital

- becomes disabled

- develops dementia

etc.

L

[prairiewindmomma]

We just dealt with a refusal to go to rehab after a hospitalization and major surgery.  In the end, the doctor, bless her heart (truly!) wouldn't discharge them *unless* they went to rehab because there was absolutely no way that they could care for themselves.

How can you fix stubborn and crazy? I'm not sure you can. It's doubly complicated if they won't disclose to you when crises do come up. 

[May]

My DH(62)and I(61) struggle with this. Our oldest Dd will likely stay in VA and our youngest Dd is married to a navy guy. At this point, he’s not sure if he will stay in. DH and I realize we will eventually have to move from our house because of the stairs. There is no way we could remodel for a bedroom on the main level. We would like to move where it is warmer but realize as we age, we may need more help. So, here we are, wanting to make things easier for our kids but don’t see how. The only option seems to be to buy another over priced house in NOVA with a first floor bedroom. This getting older is hard😕

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that expecting parents to move around to follow adult kids is kind of a lot because adult kids move around a lot.  I'm always sorry when someone says that they are moving to be near their grandchildren, if the children themselves have been moving a lot.  

[Carol in Cal.]

Regarding stairs--we live in a one story house but it is very small.  I have always wanted a big, rambling house.  I think that if I ever buy one, it will involve either a ground floor master suite or a room convertible to a master bedroom, or the installation of an elevator or one of those moving stairways.

[bethben]

31 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Regarding stairs--we live in a one story house but it is very small.  I have always wanted a big, rambling house.  I think that if I ever buy one, it will involve either a ground floor master suite or a room convertible to a master bedroom, or the installation of an elevator or one of those moving stairways.

Just an FYI about moving stairways.  We have one for my son who has his bedroom in the basement.  If you have a straight staircase, the cost is pretty reasonable - around $3K.  If you have any need of curving it, even to accommodate one landing stair, you're looking at around $13K.  Having lived in a house with a main floor accessible bath and bedroom and a house with the stairlift, I would ALWAYS choose main floor bed and bath.  Using the stairlift for going up and down (and having multiple wheelchairs for different levels) is really annoying.  SOOOO much easier with main floor bed and bath.  Once our kids get older and move out, we will be finding a smaller ranch home.  If we ever get the funds for an accessible home before that point, we will be moving as soon as we can.

[brehon]

I live in a completely different part of the country than MM2.0 and my professional experiences exactly match hers with regard to people who won’t plan and won’t accept rehab or assisted living situations. 

It’s very frustrating for everyone involved, including many times the adult children. 

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, brehon said:

I live in a completely different part of the country than MM2.0 and my professional experiences exactly match hers with regard to people who won’t plan and won’t accept rehab or assisted living situations. 

It’s very frustrating for everyone involved, including many times the adult children. 

My mother, indeed, didn't plan. When she was in her sixties, she told me to put her in a care home when she got old. Then she stayed in her rickety house and refused help. Then she ended up in hospital on and off for three months, at which point it became clear that her mode of living was a fire danger to her elderly next door neighbour.

I swooped in, she refused any kind of old people's accommodation, she lived with me for two years, and she then had to go to a care home against her wishes. If she had planned, she might still be in light touch assisted living of her choice.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Laura Corin

[shawthorne44]

20 hours ago, bethben said:

...  She’s willing to move here if she has dementia because she hates being cold and would rather not be mentally aware of where she is living if it involves snow.  It’s frustrating.  

So, she is only willing for you to care for her, when she is so far gone that you won't be able to care for her. 

[Innisfree]

18 hours ago, bethben said:

The people they want to live near in a “few more years” are their age.  No one will be watching out for them because everyone will be in a similar situation. 

 

18 hours ago, bethben said:

They wanted to make the move though to get away from snow.

Could they find a senior community in their preferred location which would let them be close to friends, away from snow, and have facilities for more care when it's needed? Then they get their preferences honored while you aren't on the hook for caregiving.

[bethben]

24 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

 

Could they find a senior community in their preferred location which would let them be close to friends, away from snow, and have facilities for more care when it's needed? Then they get their preferences honored while you aren't on the hook for caregiving.

Yes they could, but they’re not making any moves very quickly.  They haven’t looked and I know some of those place have waiting lists.  I’m pretty sure they have some in mind, but they are pretty content to stay where they are and not be quick to make changes.  They’re both a little stubborn and I think they want different things.

[Innisfree]

Got it. It's hard, I know. 

[Scarlett]

Don't quote please--

 

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Scarlett

[Garga]

@Scarlett  I get it.  As I said earlier, my parents moved out west when I was 21.  Then, they moved back when my first was born.  They stayed for 2 years and then left again. 

I think that part of why they left the second time is that I wasn’t able to be there all the time for them.  Now, granted, they were only in their 50s and didn’t need help, but I think they thought we’d all be hanging out together all the time.  But I had just had a baby.  I remember that when he was born, I was thinking, as quite a huge number of women do, “Hey, maybe my mom will stay with me for a week and help me out,” and when I lightly mentioned it she said something like, “Well, I can’t imagine how I could help...” And she didn’t.  She didn’t  help with the baby at all in any way.  She visited a bit and held him, but didn’t do laundry or bring me food or anything like that.  

Looking back, I think she didn’t remember how very, very hard it can be to have an infant to care for, and then be pregnant again, and to have a husband and house to care for.  It doesn’t take much imagination to know how to help a women fresh from the hospital with a baby, after all, unless you’ve forgotten what it was like.  

So, when I didn’t have a lot of time to hang around with them, (baby was colicky for hours a day and wanted to nurse every 2 hours all day and night long, and then didn’t sleep through the night for a year and a half—I was dead on my feet), I think they figured, “Eh, we’ll just move away again,” and I think they regretted coming back for those two years because I wasn’t able to be there for them at all really.

I can totally see what you’re talking about.  They come out there and expect you’ll be like a retired person: able to hang out at any time of day and go to yard sales or whatever and have dinner together a few nights a week and pop over in the afternoon and evenings to set up their wifi, and then maybe shop with them for groceries, etc.  And that’s just not realistic.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Garga

[Scarlett]

Exactly. I think I see them both a lot. Once or twice a week when I am working I stop by and eat my lunch when them .  Dh and I eat out with them probably 3 times a month. And we see them at religious activities 2 or 3 times a week.  They complain the boys don’t do anything for them. If they ask the boys will help... but these kids are busy and young adults doing their own thing. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Scarlett

[Shoeless]

Managing the elder's expectations is SO frustrating.  All of my relatives over the age of 65 have a lot of Big Feelings about what I should be doing for them.  I have to say, it really hurts to hear them call me selfish because I can't drop everything and fly across the country for some crazy thing they want me to do.  

[shawthorne44]

And then if you DO spend lots of time with them, your life can be harmed.   

My aunt, for example, spent a great deal of time with her parents.  When Dad and Aunt were in their 40's, Dad said to his parents that it couldn't be good that Aunt spent all her time with them, and that it would be better if she had some time and motivation to make other friends.  Because what will she do when they are gone?   They said, "But we love being with her".    Granted Aunt is a bit odd, so she wouldn't have had a lot of friends.  But, she has had friends in the past.   Now they are dead, and Aunt is alone.   

What I don't get is that it was HER that explained to me why her Aunt, an angel, had married Scumbag.   The reason was that she was forced to spend all her non-school time taking care of her Grandmother who needed Nursing Home level of care.   So, she wasn't able to socialize.   Since she was from a time when women Must marry, she said Yes to the first guy that ask.    I don't use Scumbag lightly.   We know he beat her.   I am fairly certain that he didn't molest any kids because kids would have run screaming from him.  He probably didn't kill anyone because he is too dumb to not be caught.   

 

[Shoeless]

On 5/1/2019 at 9:32 PM, shawthorne44 said:

And then if you DO spend lots of time with them, your life can be harmed.   

My aunt, for example, spent a great deal of time with her parents.  When Dad and Aunt were in their 40's, Dad said to his parents that it couldn't be good that Aunt spent all her time with them, and that it would be better if she had some time and motivation to make other friends.  Because what will she do when they are gone?   They said, "But we love being with her".    Granted Aunt is a bit odd, so she wouldn't have had a lot of friends.  But, she has had friends in the past.   Now they are dead, and Aunt is alone.   
 

 

This is a scenario that is playing out with my father and one of my sisters.  They spend all their social time together and are very enmeshed in each other's lives.  The go to the gym together.  They took dance lessons together.  They sing in a choir together.  At the choir show, they sang "Me and My Shadow" as a duet.  *bangs head*   

I and my youngest sister have been trying to encourage both of them to branch out and make other friends because this dynamic is really not good for either of them.  Nope, they see nothing wrong here.  Except, when it looked like my sister was going to relocate 1500 miles away for work, it nearly pushed both of them into an emotional crisis.  It's going to be a mess when Dad one day dies.  😞