Obituaries and "died suddenly"

[AimeeM]

14 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

I think it's weird we do obits at all.

Why do we care what people who aren't connected to the deceased know at all?

The most important people are likely to know without an obit, so who is the obit for?

Also, having them printed in the paper is expensive. So they may account for some of it.  The funeral home had a free web page of obits, so that is where my sister got to go crazy writing anything she wanted, inaccuracie of facts and spelling and all. 

My dad's obit in the paper though was about 2 sentences.  Iirc, it was:  first, middle and last name, age of death, preceded in death by wife, survived by his children, private graveside burial only. (Iow, no services and no fanfare).  That's it.

 

I am really very glad we did an obit for my Father-in-Law. There was no way we could know everybody he was "connected to" -- he had been a beloved private music teacher and store owner for over 50 years at that point. For the funeral Mass and similar, my husband could only rely on my 84 year old FIL's handwritten "contact lists" (which consisted of randomly placed names and phone numbers in a standard notebook -- and he had many such notebooks floating around). We were contacted by many people who knew him after the obit was placed, who had not idea he'd passed away; some who had no idea he'd even been ill. Even now (about two years later) we still occasionally get messages from people who knew him years ago, went to contact him for some reason, couldn't find him, and eventually found the obit (or talked to someone who had). 

These people were very important to my FIL. Just because we didn't know these other people well, doesn't mean he didn't. In many cases he had taught several generations of their families, and while regular contact may have eventually dropped off, he absolutely considered all his present and former students to be among the "most important people" in his life.

[Carrie12345]

You all had me reading yesterday's obits!  They included a very young woman who died unexpectedly. (That's the word that was used, not "suddenly".)

The range in prices is beginning to freak me out as I do my research. We're likely to be handling my fil's final expenses by the end of the summer. Phrasing is going to be tough enough even before considering word count!

[marbel]

I'm not surprised that all obits don't include cause of death.  But, I don't find it odd that people are curious when a death notice says "suddenly" or whatever and doesn't give a cause of death. I think in particular people are curious when it is someone not elderly.  I don't read a local paper but when I have, and have found myself scanning the obits, wondering what happened to people who were under, say, 70 (give or take, back when I got the daily paper 70 seemed a lot older than it does now).  I think it is human nature to be curious about people. I know I have zero right to know the cause of death of people I don't know, and I wouldn't seek the information out, but I don't find it odd that people might be curious about it. 

I think for both my parents we used minimal obits.  An insurance agent contacted my mother when my father died to set up a time to deliver her life insurance check before she even had a chance to call him about it.  He'd seen the obit and started the process.  Don't lawyers (or their minions) scan the obits for clients' names?  Maybe I'm making that up.

[G5052]

Some of the "died suddenly" are suicides. I saw it in my hometown, and there have been some locally that I knew were that way.

My dad wrote his own, and my mom gave it to the papers without editing. Ironically he put that he died at home with family when that wasn't the case at all. He included that he died of complications of Parkinson's, which he did.

I wrote my mom's, and I didn't include how she died. She had mental issues and dementia that were so bad at one point that they almost put her in the state mental hospital. A stroke took her all the way back to high school, and then she had another and was basically bed-bound for months until yet another stroke took her. No reason at all to say any of that.

[Murphy101]

I don’t think anyone is an island either. But neither do I think it’s all that complicated to figure out someone is dead. Even without the paper obit, many people knew my father was soon to die or dead fairly quickly simply by word of mouth. I had to field calls and visitors bc he really didn’t want company or to talk to anyone at that point. I suppose if we had had a funeral, timing would have been more important but we didn’t so the obit wouldn’t have made a difference in that regard. Many people sent cards to the funeral home and those were forwarded to me.

 

[maize]

19 hours ago, SarahCB said:

 

I think my mind goes straight to suicide or overdose because those are the things I fear the most. I've had two close family members commit suicide and the current overdose epidemic here scares me half to death. I've got teen boys - they're great teens, but it only takes one bad decision to die of an overdose. And suicide rates are much higher for males - one of my relatives was only 19 when he "died suddenly". Perhaps if someone close to me had died of a heart attack or a nut allergy then that's where my mind would go first.

But, to go back to my query - for whatever reason it seems like cancer gets mentioned a lot as a cause of death, but not much else makes it in. I'm just wondering why that is. 

Cancer often plays a major role in a person's life, for months and often for years. 

As understanding of and treatments for cancer have progressed, cancer as illness has moved from the shameful and unmentionable category to something that people face and fight valiantly, sometimes winning and sometimes losing. If you go back a few decades cancer was never mentioned in obituaries or elsewhere.

My personal hope is that as we come to understand mental illness better it too will move out of the unmentionable category. Maybe one day suicide and overdose will be found in obituaries more often:

"John passed away Tuesday after a long fight with depression (or substance abuse disorder)...in lieu of flowers, donations may be sent to (...mental health research organization)."

[SKL]

I'm surprised they charge large amounts for newspaper obituaries.  I mean, I can understand if it's long, but I would think a basic one should be published for free.  I don't know how they do it here.  Thankfully I've never had to publish an obit.

I have a few relevant experiences.  Recently an old family friend's son died - he was in his early 50s.  My family wasn't in touch because his mom, my mom's best lifelong friend, died about 11 years ago.  But we still have some contact with the dad and siblings.  The only time I ever saw the deceased in decades was at his mom's funeral.  Nice guy, but our lives went separate ways, as most lives do.  I happened to learn of the death because his brother is a member of the church I attend (he rarely attends but asked for prayers and it was in the bulletin).  I looked up his facebook page and learned the deceased brother had been fighting an illness for some time - didn't sound like cancer - not really sure what it was.  It was useful to know because my folks needed to call his dad and not having any info at all would have been awkward.

A preschooler got a hold of his dad's gun which was in the glove box of his car, and shot himself.  The obit did not mention the cause of death; I happened to know because (a) there was a news story but no name given and (b) the name was mentioned in church.

The other day I learned that an employee's relative, a young adult or possibly younger, died suddenly.  I don't know what the cause of death was.  I only know the employee / family is shocked.  My daughter asked about the cause of death, so I said it was most likely an accident, but possibly a drug overdose or suicide or something else.  There aren't that many common causes of unexpected death for a young person.

My friend died last year after about a year of both her and her husband being too ill to hang out in the community.  As far as I could tell, hardly anyone came to her funeral / calling hours.  I assume nobody who cared had learned of her death that fast.  Her son was tasked with calling people, and I don't think he knew most of her friends' contact info.  He happened to know me because I did their taxes every year.  Also it happened that I had just recently been to visit her in the hospital.  Otherwise I probably would not have known it until too late to pay respects.

My dad has been in the habit of reading the obits regularly so he can pay respects before it is too late.  I think maybe I should start doing that too.

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

I don’t think anyone is an island either. But neither do I think it’s all that complicated to figure out someone is dead. Even without the paper obit, many people knew my father was soon to die or dead fairly quickly simply by word of mouth. I had to field calls and visitors bc he really didn’t want company or to talk to anyone at that point. I suppose if we had had a funeral, timing would have been more important but we didn’t so the obit wouldn’t have made a difference in that regard. Many people sent cards to the funeral home and those were forwarded to me.

 

You must not live in a city. 

[Murphy101]

12 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

You must not live in a city. 

 

Actually I do. Cities aren’t islands unto themselves either. There’s people in them. And they talk to each other.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

13 hours ago, Janeway said:

No one says cause of death in obits anymore. Plus, often, there is a cost associated with the word count on the obituary so most won’t waste the money on extra words. Plus, in this day and age, people are more concerned with privacy so less personal info ends up being said.

 

No, traditionally obituaries did not list cause of death. Death certificates do, obituaries don't. (And there has never been a less private day and age than this one...)

[swimmermom3]

21 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Obituaries are formal death notices. And like many formal notices many people choose to use formal language. They serve a function in society to notify people who aren’t necessarily in the family or close friends of a death. I have learned of the death of former teachers, bosses and roommates through the obituaries. I appreciate when there are enough details so that I can make sure that the notice is referring to the “John Smith” I know but I have no expectation of being told someone’s story or of being entertained. 

 

This. Obituaries are not written for the titillation of strangers.

[J-rap]

I think "died suddenly" can refer to any type of sudden, unexpected death.  I also think of death as private/personal.  So, family members should feel no pressure to list the reason.  We as readers might want more answers, but they certainly have every right to withhold them.  Especially at a young age, it is surprising and people would like to know what happened.  But again, it's up to the family to disclose that information or not.  It could be a heart failure or car accident or asthma attack or bacterial meningitis or drowning or so many things, not just suicide.  I think most family members prefer to leave the gruesome details out of the obit and focus more on honoring the person's life.

I think obituaries still do serve a purpose.  In smaller towns, people appreciate reading them because even if they know of the death already, they can find out funeral service times, etc., and sometimes even learn something new about the person.  In bigger cities, obituaries can be helpful because news doesn't spread as easily and it might be someone whose life you want to honor or who was an important person in your life at one time or another, but you weren't necessarily involved with each other on a day-to-day basis.  

Recently, my dad's only living cousin passed away.  (They were both 90.)  They had actually just talked by phone a week earlier, and were trying to make plans to get together.  They both live in a metro area of about 3 million people.  Anyway, she suddenly passed away, and her dd -- who lived out of state -- couldn't reach everyone and my dad's name is so common here that there are over 1200 men with that same name in that area.  My mother happened to read the obituaries and that's how they learned of his cousin's death and funeral service.  They were so glad to have spotted it!  

I used to work for a newspaper and one of my jobs was to handle obituaries.  Generally family members and funeral homes worked on them together.  Usually, it was the funeral home that would bring them to me.  Sometimes, I helped with wording if they wanted me to.  At the time, there was no charge to publish an obit.  I wrote my grandmother's obituary when she died myself.  It was actually a very cathartic thing for me to do.  She had died in my arms and was a very important person in my life.

ETA:  I wanted to add that I also think obits serve as a family's tribute to the person who died.  Also, it is an act they can do that helps contribute to the necessary closure of a life very dear to them.  (I don't like the term "closure"  at all but can't think of a better one at the moment!)

[scholastica]

41 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

Actually I do. Cities aren’t islands unto themselves either. There’s people in them. And they talk to each other.

Gently. Do you talk to everyone who's ever cared about you or your relatives? Or is it your family culture to only include those you are currently involved with? Which is fine if that's the case. It's just not the case with most people. My in-laws can't possibly talk to all the people to whom they would like to pay their respects. They have lived, worked and volunteered in many different places. The number of people they have known and cared about is astronomical. Also, the children of the deceased have friends who would like to be there for them in their time of grief. In most places and with most people, attending the wake and/or funeral of people they have cared for is important to them and comforting to the family, even if they haven't seen them for years. Obituaries get the information out there for those who aren't necessarily in touch. Am I remembering correctly that you are Catholic? Burying the dead is a corporal work of mercy and part of burying the dead is being present at wakes and funerals. 

[Familia]

My elderly mother died in a city where she knew no-one, and had no former friends - no family beyond the realm of her children.  I had decided to simply go the free notice route through the publisher of the local news journal.  Then, I reconsidered a few days later.  I wanted her information online for later genealogical sleuths in the family.  I am so tickled that I can google my mother's name and see her lovely graduation (from secondary school) photo!  Her cause of death was not mentioned, didn't think to add it.

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, scholastica said:

Gently. Do you talk to everyone who's ever cared about you or your relatives? Or is it your family culture to only include those you are currently involved with? Which is fine if that's the case. It's just not the case with most people. My in-laws can't possibly talk to all the people to whom they would like to pay their respects. They have lived, worked and volunteered in many different places. The number of people they have known and cared about is astronomical. Also, the children of the deceased have friends who would like to be there for them in their time of grief. In most places and with most people, attending the wake and/or funeral of people they have cared for is important to them and comforting to the family, even if they haven't seen them for years. Obituaries get the information out there for those who aren't necessarily in touch. Am I remembering correctly that you are Catholic? Burying the dead is a corporal work of mercy and part of burying the dead is being present at wakes and funerals. 

 

Oh good grief. One, I wasn’t raised religious at all and my father had no desire to find religion at the end either. 

Two, no one who wanted to offer condolences or pay respects were denied a chance to do so - at considerable debt to myself. And no one had difficulty regardless of paper obit. I have no issue with any of that in general principle.

Three, I had a few people (family/friends) who had zero contact with my father for over 25 years and yet felt they were so fond and concerned that it gave them the right to complain to the family (me!) about how his hospice and burial were handled and how they were not accommodated to their liking. Well too bad. It wasn’t about them. And that has nothing to do with a paper obit to announce anything. 

[scholastica]

53 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

Oh good grief. One, I wasn’t raised religious at all and my father had no desire to find religion at the end either. 

Two, no one who wanted to offer condolences or pay respects were denied a chance to do so - at considerable debt to myself. And no one had difficulty regardless of paper obit. I have no issue with any of that in general principle.

Three, I had a few people (family/friends) who had zero contact with my father for over 25 years and yet felt they were so fond and concerned that it gave them the right to complain to the family (me!) about how his hospice and burial were handled and how they were not accommodated to their liking. Well too bad. It wasn’t about them. And that has nothing to do with a paper obit to announce anything. 

You entered this conversation saying you didn’t understand why we do obits at all. Several posters have tried to explain why obits are helpful to them and to others in general. My explanation had nothing to do with your father and your situation. Your family should handle that according to your own traditions. Others do it differently and that’s fine, too. I was simply sharing another perspective on why some people don’t find it “weird we do obits at all.”

[Bluegoat]

I wouldn't necessarily expect cause of death, but it is interesting that people want to say it was sudden.  I suppose perhaps that it may be for the benefit of those who are just learning about the death in the obit, they think "oh, as so and so ill and I didn't know?"  It might influence how they interact with the family.

[SKL]

As for whether it's good that we do obits - I do searches on obits from time to time to find out if the person is still with us or not.  I do have some people on my Christmas card list etc. whom I haven't actually spoken to in years.  One elderly lady was due a visit from me with my kids at some point; I had called a while back but she was unwell so we could not do it then.  I checked the obits before placing a phone call the next time.  She had passed months earlier.  I would have attended her funeral had I known at the time, but like I said, I don't generally check obits and none of her family members would have known to inform me.  So I am glad we can at least google them from time to time.

There is a guy I email on his birthday each year.  This year his email rejected me, so I wondered if he was OK.  A google indicates he is still with us (no obit).  So maybe I'll try to look him up another way, or wait for him to contact me.

[Crimson Wife]

AFAIK I don't know of anyone who died from an OD. I do know of people who died in accidents that rumor has it were alcohol-related or suspected suicide.

Most of the sudden deaths were from cardiovascular disease (heart attack, stroke, aneurysm, etc), asthma attack, or a nasty infection (meningitis, flu, pneumonia, etc.) that the person didn't realize the seriousness of until too late :-(

[Jean in Newcastle]

The shock of a sudden death is different than what goes on in a long drawn out illness or cancer or even mental health or addiction battle that finally culminates in death. . Also- cancer can be very quick from the time of diagnosis to passing at times.  And suicide can be both sudden with no known warning signs and sometimes it can seem "inevitable" if someone has tried numerous times and is finally successful.  Same with drug use.  People have OD'd on their first experimental use and of course others struggle for years and years.  I guess what I'm saying is that the suddenness of things is separate from the actual cause of death. 

[GoodGrief]

I really enjoy reading obits and I have from a young age. I don't have much interest in the cause of death, but I do enjoy getting a summary of a person's life journey. I think it's unfortunate that they have become so expensive now that they don't generally include much detail.