How would you interpret this

[maize]

Not even to your kids?

 

You'd never say "you may not hit your brother with that wooden mallet*"? What would you say?

 

*Feel free to insert whatever thing you never would have guessed you would need to explicitly tell your own children.

"Don't hit your brother"

 

"We don't hit"

 

"Stop!"

 

"It's not OK to hit"

[theelfqueen]

American who uses "may" for permission giving and whose kids ask May I do/have...

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[hjffkj]

Shin guards, nunchuks, and a sword/letter opener? Is he preparing for the apocalypse or practicing to be in the next Marvel movie?

 

Edited: I love that list and I'm working on my nine year old boy logic as to why these things made the Christmas wish list.

They made his birthday list actually, which is December. He is a martial artist, grapples, and trains with weapons so they all make perfect sense to me. Those were not the things on his list he gave us. Everytime anyone asked he'd tell them different things. I guess ye doesn't want duplicates!

[hjffkj]

I would say, don't hit your brother. If someone wants to do something, they say "can I eat this cookie" and I say "yes, you can eat the cookie."

 

But I do read the OP as a permission situation.

See but this is not how I would say it. My children ask, "may I have...." The response is, " yes you may" "or no you may not." Person A taught me to speak this way. "Can I" statements are met with, "yes, you can but you may not" or may depending on the situation.

[Carrie12345]

I did not read it as "not allowed". And, yes, I do use "may" regularly, but I wouldn't have in that context.  If I don't want my kids to have something, I would stress that fact to someone else.  Like, "Yes, but OMG, PLEASE don't get any TWD stuff. Sneaky kid thought he could get away with it!"

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I love seeing all the responses.  To me, that was a very unambiguous statement that he was not allowed to have the WD item.  How funny!  

[Tap]

Just read casually as a text message......I would think that you don't think he has anything Walking Dead yet.

 

If I really think about it, I might realize that the person meant that he can't have that item, but It is awkward wording to me if that is the intent.

[maize]

"Can I" statements are met with, "yes, you can but you may not" or may depending on the situation.

I've never understood this approach; if "can I" is not used in your local dialect to mean "am I allowed to" then you wouldn't likely need to correct it--your children would not be saying it in the first place.

 

Truth is it is normal and correct usage in most dialects in the US.

 

Why "correct" what is normal usage?

[Sherry in OH]

In a spoken sentence, inflection would make the meaning of the word may clear.  In a text, that clue is missing. 

 

If I were at home making a shopping list, I would see both interpretations and ask for clarification.

If I were standing in a store looking at letter openers,  I'd probably interpret the text as he wants these three things and no one else has gotten him Walking Dead themed-items.   

 

 

 

[Matryoshka]

So the only interpretation that occurred to me for the message in the OP was that the child was likely not getting any Walking Dead stuff yet, therefore it would be the preferred gift. Although I did think it was awkwardly phrased.

 

This was my initial interpretation too.  It didn't even occur to me that it meant he was forbidden from getting Walking Dead stuff until I read other responses.

 

I think the thing that pushed me in that direction was that it was asking the mom about his wish list.  So, I'm thinking of her looking down the list going, yep, has that, and that, and don't think he has any of that yet.  It didn't imply to me that there was something on the list that he wasn't allowed to receive.  Why would it be on the list, then?  I'd expect something clearer, like wow, Tommy snuck a forbidden item on his list, lol, don't even think about getting him that one!

 

I'll agree TWD is inappropriate for 9yos, but I'm constantly stunned by what some other people let their young kids watch (or fanboy over - having the toys doesn't always mean they watch the show).  So that didn't occur to me either till it was pointed out.

[Cosmos]

See but this is not how I would say it. My children ask, "may I have...." The response is, " yes you may" "or no you may not." Person A taught me to speak this way. "Can I" statements are met with, "yes, you can but you may not" or may depending on the situation.

 

My child is 17, so we're past these kind of conversations and I'm trying to remember how it worked for us. When he asked "may I", I think I would answer "sure" or "no" or "not right now but maybe later" or "that's fine with me". We didn't really have a lot of rules and regulations but if I needed to convey that some behavior was not allowed, I would say something like "No tv right now" or "Yelling that loud is not appropriate. Please stop." The construction "may not" to refer to permission just isn't part of my normal vernacular.

[SKL]

"he may not have" could be read as "maybe he doesn't have" or "he isn't allowed to have."

 

"maybe he doesn't have" doesn't really make sense in the sentence, but not everyone would have thought of the other meaning.

 

Sounds like it's too late to clarify.  I doubt the person meant any harm.  Most people wouldn't go out of their way to find and buy something the receiver isn't supposed to have.

[SKL]

If I'm telling someone not to give my kids something, I will say "I don't want her to have / do that yet," usually with an explanation if it isn't obvious.  "I isn't family friendly" or whatever.

[hornblower]

"he may not have" could be read as "maybe he doesn't have" or "he isn't allowed to have."

 

 

They way I was taught (ESL by largely British English teachers) 

 

"may not have" = not allowed 

 

"might not have" = possibly doesn't have it 

 

 

We spent a LONG time going over when can, may, and might get used. 

 

 

[maize]

In a spoken sentence, inflection would make the meaning of the word may clear. In a text, that clue is missing.

 

 

Inflection would absolutely carry the meaning in spoken language, so I guess I can see how someone who was just texting as they thought the words would think they were being clear--may not have would have a totally different inflection if it meant "forbidden" vs. "might not have". It is so easy to forget that inflections and tone don't come through in writing, especially when we are writing casually as a stand in for talking.

[Wheres Toto]

I read it both ways.  My kids have a bunch of things from the Halo video game franchise (board game, costumes, Lego sets), but we don't let them play T+ rated games yet.  So a kid wanting a Walking Dead letter opener without actually being allowed to watch the show wouldn't seem that strange to me.  Although it's totally the parents' call on that.  If I was the gift buyer, I'd double check!

 

Definitely this.  I see toys for kids for all kinds of shows and movies that I would assume those kids aren't actually allowed to watch/play.   Seems to be very common these days.

 

Not even to your kids?

 

You'd never say "you may not hit your brother with that wooden mallet*"? What would you say?

 

*Feel free to insert whatever thing you never would have guessed you would need to explicitly tell your own children.

 

I would definitely go with "don't hit your brother".  My son doesn't do subtleties, it works better to just get right to it and say NO.

 

This whole discussion made me think of this meme:

 

[SKL]

They way I was taught (ESL by largely British English teachers) 

 

"may not have" = not allowed 

 

"might not have" = possibly doesn't have it 

 

 

We spent a LONG time going over when can, may, and might get used. 

 

 

 

In older books, the word "might" is often used in reference to permission / being allowed.

 

May not ___ definitely means "possibly does not" in many contexts.  You may not have learned it that way, but it's how I was taught.  :)

[SKL]

I almost never use "may not" in the sense of not allowed.

 

If I put those two words together it means might not.

 

I very regularly say "you may not ___" meaning you are not allowed (or don't you dare).  Given my tone, there is no question what I mean.  :)  That said, I agree that if it was a text to someone who didn't know us well, the words "he may not" could be ambiguous.

[hornblower]

In older books, the word "might" is often used in reference to permission / being allowed.

 

May not ___ definitely means "possibly does not" in many contexts.  You may not have learned it that way, but it's how I was taught.  :)

 

See, we'd have that last sentence marked wrong & corrected to "You might not have learned it that way..." :) 

 

Obviously regional differences abound. I'm not making a claim of language purity and one true way. I'm merely explaining this strict usage exists in some language traditions.  

 

again the link I posted above https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/ar/english-grammar/verbs/modal-verbs/may-might-may-have-and-might-have

 

Fwiw, if I were OP I would have said, "yes but pls do not get him any TWD stuff at all"

 

 

[hjffkj]

I've never understood this approach; if "can I" is not used in your local dialect to mean "am I allowed to" then you wouldn't likely need to correct it--your children would not be saying it in the first place.

 

Truth is it is normal and correct usage in most dialects in the US.

 

Why "correct" what is normal usage?

It is not used in our household or our FOO's households but heard from other people so kids get mixed messages, hence they get corrected when they say 'can I.'.

[hjffkj]

They way I was taught (ESL by largely British English teachers)

 

"may not have" = not allowed

 

"might not have" = possibly doesn't have it

 

 

We spent a LONG time going over when can, may, and might get used.

 

 

This was the way I was taught by person A, who apparently no longer follows those rules.

[Petrichor]

If he wasn't allowed to have it, I would assume she/he would have said "but he can't(or isn't allowed to) have that" - because that makes it clear. And I would find it weird that she/he would allow it to be on his list if he wasn't allowed it. 

 

I read it as "he might not have any of those yet, so it would be nice if he got something WD" with an added "I have no clue what exact toys my kid has, because I have other things to worry about" that second part really rings true to me!

[Xahm]

They way I was taught (ESL by largely British English teachers)

 

"may not have" = not allowed

 

"might not have" = possibly doesn't have it

 

 

We spent a LONG time going over when can, may, and might get used.

 

 

Interestingly, I taught English as a foreign language using the British editions of textbooks published by both Oxford University Press and Cambridge University Press, and they very explicitly taught that "can/cannot" was used to indicate permission, and only at the upper levels did they include "may/may not" as indicating permission. May/may not was taught earlier as indicating the likelihood of an event happening. I was surprised and asked my Scottish boss/co-teacher about this, and he was surprised to learn that in school (in the 90s in Ga, USA), using "may" rather than "can" for permission was a big deal. He had never heard of such in Perth or Edinburgh.