Almost adults are difficult to parent

[Scarlett]

So many things are easier. But the more difficult things are really difficult.

 

My son is a senior. I am torn between wanting to guide him on what to do after he graduates and wanting to let him make his own choices. If I left him to make his own choices he would have no clue.

 

And how do you help build the confidence of a kid like him who is convinced others are sooooo much smarter than him? If I tell him that he is a smarter than most kids he says 'of course you say that, you are my mom'.

 

He loves his vo tech course and it comes very easy to him ( he has an almost perfect score) but he is convinced several in his class are waaaay smarter than him. Olivia for example. I said, really? How do you know she is waaaay smarter than you? His evidence is that she made a 28 on the ACT. I said, well you made a 25 taking it completely cold. Did she take it cold? No he says she studied for it a lot.

 

I am also struggling with the perceptions out there ( his dad, society in general, advertisements, ) that some degrees are inferiors. That some paths are just for losers. That winners take a very traditional path of AP classes, ACT prep, high scores and a 4 year degree in engineering brains in 4 years. I keep trying to convey to him that people are not defined by their job or how much money they make. When I say that to my xh he says, 'wel you have to work 40 hours a week so you may as well make the most money you can'. I fundamentally do not believe either of those statements are true....and I feel like my son is getting very mixed messages.

 

Ds's current idea is to wait and see what he makes on the second ACT he took where he did study and prep for it slightly. He should know in a few weeks I think. He says he wants to see what he makes before he decides what direction to go. I don't think this is a bad idea but I also don't think he needs to feel the ACT holds more weight than it actually does.

 

Anyone else in the same boat? Anyone have any words of wisdom?

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yeah I don't know.  Plenty of people think they are way smarter than they are. 

 

But you are right, this time is quite challenging.  And I thought potty training sucked.  :laugh:

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

So many things are easier. But the more difficult things are really difficult.

 

My son is a senior. I am torn between wanting to guide him on what to do after he graduates and wanting to let him make his own choices. If I left him to make his own choices he would have no clue.

 

 

 

 

I have a senior. I remind myself, and him if needed, 18 isn't a magical age where you legally become an adult and the stars align and all things click into place.  I am here to offer guidance and direction as long as he needs me to. At 18 the choices are ultimately his, but we've let him make quite a few important choices for some time now.  He is still pretty clueless about a lot of things, and that is okay. 

 

I agree it is hard. Once he hits 18, there will be things I just can't do for him. He has to legally take care of them himself.  I can still offer direction if needed.

[kiana]

I am also struggling with the perceptions out there ( his dad, society in general, advertisements, ) that some degrees are inferiors. That some paths are just for losers. That winners take a very traditional path of AP classes, ACT prep, high scores and a 4 year degree in engineering brains in 4 years. I keep trying to convey to him that people are not defined by their job or how much money they make. When I say that to my xh he says, 'wel you have to work 40 hours a week so you may as well make the most money you can'. I fundamentally do not believe either of those statements are true....and I feel like my son is getting very mixed messages.

 

Yeah well, if you wake up every morning wishing you'd get hit by a bus on the way to work so that you wouldn't have to go, the money isn't going to matter too much. 

 

Seriously, loathing your job has an incredibly negative impact on quality of life for many people. 

[Scarlett]

Yeah well, if you wake up every morning wishing you'd get hit by a bus on the way to work so that you wouldn't have to go, the money isn't going to matter too much.

 

Seriously, loathing your job has an incredibly negative impact on quality of life for many people.

Exactly. Ds has a better sense of what he doesn't want to do vs what he does want to do. So we are doing a lot of process of elimination.

 

I asked him he wanted to teach. No!

 

Be a nurse! No!

 

Anything in the medical or biology field? No! Wait, wasn't chemistry hard for me? I don't know, you made a A and then a B...but I don't think you worked very hard for that.

 

And it goes on and on.

 

I told him he has not learned how to study. And when he does learn academics will change for him.

[Bootsie]

I think one of the tricks at this age is encouraging them to keep doors open if it is a possibility that they want to go through them  while at the same time helping them discover what their dreams, passions, and talents are (which means leaving some doors behind).  

 

At this age, I try to steer the conversation away from Olivia is smarter than Sam and other comparisons to focusing on what the individual child's talents are.  It is also important for them to be able to accept that they will not excel at everything; it is OK if Olivia is smarter than Sam in math, but let's look and see what Sam excels in...

 

As far as getting mixed messages, I would frame it this way:  he is hearing from you what your values are; he is hearing from his dad what dad's values are.  These are different.  Part of the growing up at this age is for him to be able to recognize and deal with this type of ambiguity; it is time for his to decide what HIS values are.  He may want to work 40 hours per week.  He may find work that is meaningful enough to him that he wants to spend 80 hours a week doing it.   

[G5052]

Every kid is different.

 

Keep the doors open and see what shapes up. It truly will work out.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I have a senior. I remind myself, and him if needed, 18 isn't a magical age where you legally become an adult and the stars align and all things click into place.  I am here to offer guidance and direction as long as he needs me to. At 18 the choices are ultimately his, but we've let him make quite a few important choices for some time now.  He is still pretty clueless about a lot of things, and that is okay. 

 

I agree it is hard. Once he hits 18, there will be things I just can't do for him. He has to legally take care of them himself.  I can still offer direction if needed.

 

So true.  I tell my kid this all the time.  He thinks everything in life magically happens and falls into place at 18.  Don't I wish! 

[Scarlett]

So true. I tell my kid this all the time. He thinks everything in life magically happens and falls into place at 18. Don't I wish!

Right. Or 25 or 40 or 50.

[G5052]

From all I've been told, boys tend to mature more slowly even in college.

 

Mine is thankfully very together at 20, but he struggled at 18. That's completely normal.

[Scarlett]

I think one of the tricks at this age is encouraging them to keep doors open if it is a possibility that they want to go through them while at the same time helping them discover what their dreams, passions, and talents are (which means leaving some doors behind).

 

At this age, I try to steer the conversation away from Olivia is smarter than Sam and other comparisons to focusing on what the individual child's talents are. It is also important for them to be able to accept that they will not excel at everything; it is OK if Olivia is smarter than Sam in math, but let's look and see what Sam excels in...

 

As far as getting mixed messages, I would frame it this way: he is hearing from you what your values are; he is hearing from his dad what dad's values are. These are different. Part of the growing up at this age is for him to be able to recognize and deal with this type of ambiguity; it is time for his to decide what HIS values are. He may want to work 40 hours per week. He may find work that is meaningful enough to him that he wants to spend 80 hours a week doing it.

Or he may find a way to support himself and work 30 hours a week.

 

I agree people need to find a job that is reasonably enjoyable most of the time. Some people really don't have clearly defined passions. I don't think most 18 years really do.

 

I do know my kid and that is the reason I steered him into vo tech and specifically into the Auto CAD program. And he absolutely loves it. Loves it. Do you know why his score is not 100%? Because he forgot to dress up for one of the professional days. And this is typical of him. It isn't his brain I regards to the work. It is his brain in regards to lack of planning and procrastination and being distracted.

[Scarlett]

Yeah I don't know. Plenty of people think they are way smarter than they are.

 

But you are right, this time is quite challenging. And I thought potty training sucked. :laugh:

I don't remember potty training being so bad. Is my memory failing me? I look longingly at 3, 4,5 year olds. I loved that age.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Why does he need to decide what he wants to do for the rest of his life right now?  Some young adults need a gap year.  Some need to work.  Some just get the general ed. classes done while they decide. 

[Scarlett]

Why does he need to decide what he wants to do for the rest of his life right now? Some young adults need a gap year. Some need to work. Some just get the general ed. classes done while they decide.

I agree. I have suggested a gap year but again he is getting the message that people who take a gap year never go back. His dad tells him this for one. Plus he doesn't want to live here with us forever and he sees a gap year as just prolonging that time period.

 

Personally I think he would do really well with a gap year. Especially if he got a job drafting ( which Dh says he can get easily) . It would give him some exposure to the field in general and he might get motivated to figure things out.

[Jean in Newcastle]

What I tell my 20 year old.  "Who you are is more important than what you are." "Nothing is set in stone.  If you start doing one major or one job and then want to change, then you can.  Especially when you are young, life is flexible."  "I support you no matter what (legal) avenue you choose."  "Go talk to the guidance counselor at the college."  (Getting someone's opinion other than mom or dad's really can help.)  "I gave you a good liberal arts education during high school.  Even if you choose to go off of the college track, you are covered with regard to a well rounded education.  Though a college degree is still a ticket to a lot of jobs even ones not in your major.  So keep that in mind." 

[Bootsie]

My son is a senior. I am torn between wanting to guide him on what to do after he graduates and wanting to let him make his own choices. If I left him to make his own choices he would have no clue.

 

 

Although the line is often blurred, there is a big difference in offering suggestions, advice and guidance and making his own choices.  Ultimately, it is his choice.  How much guidance and input does he want?  What is the worse thing that could happen if he is free to make his own decision about what to do next year?

[SparklyUnicorn]

I had zero guidance.  That wasn't pleasant.  Some parents micromanage every detail.  I can't imagine I would have liked that either.  So surely there is some middle ground.

[Scarlett]

What I tell my 20 year old. "Who you are is more important than what you are." "Nothing is set in stone. If you start doing one major or one job and then want to change, then you can. Especially when you are young, life is flexible." "I support you no matter what (legal) avenue you choose." "Go talk to the guidance counselor at the college." (Getting someone's opinion other than mom or dad's really can help.) "I gave you a good liberal arts education during high school. Even if you choose to go off of the college track, you are covered with regard to a well rounded education. Though a college degree is still a ticket to a lot of jobs even ones not in your major. So keep that in mind."

Thank you Jean. This is what I am telling him. I guess it is good to hear I am not being crazy.

[Scarlett]

Although the line is often blurred, there is a big difference in offering suggestions, advice and guidance and making his own choices. Ultimately, it is his choice. How much guidance and input does he want? What is the worse thing that could happen if he is free to make his own decision about what to do next year?

I guess that is what I am having trouble with. He doesn't even know he needs guidance....when I start talking about various things like ACT and FAFSA and applications and admissions he is like a deer in the headlights.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I guess that is what I am having trouble with. He doesn't even know he needs guidance....when I start talking about various things like ACT and FAFSA and applications and admissions he is like a deer in the headlights.

 

Our library system has a "life after high school" series of classes on financial aid, college essays and applications and career planning.  Is there anything like that in your community?  I attended with ds and while none of it was new to me (since I read the high school and college boards here!), it really helped ds to hear these things from "experts".  And since he was surrounded by other teens and their  parents he could see that he was not the only one going through this stage. 

[Bootsie]

I guess that is what I am having trouble with. He doesn't even know he needs guidance....when I start talking about various things like ACT and FAFSA and applications and admissions he is like a deer in the headlights.

I would separate things like ACT and FAFSA, which are procedures, from choices and decision-making.  A student in a brick and mortar school would have a guidance counselor explaining certain things like ACT and application procedures.  However, the counselor would not be making decisions about what a student's major should be or whether the student should take a gap year. 

 

If it were up to him to make a decision about what he would like to be doing next year, and then you helped provide him the information regarding what steps need to be taken to get there, what do you think would happen? 

[Liz CA]

At that time in ds's life, I tried to switch from active parenting to guiding. Letting him take the lead. Discuss all options that come to his mind - even if you are thinking it's not really a good one.

I think my ds was / is plagued by too many options. Decisions, decisions.

 

Opening the doors wide to let them try their wings and keeping the door open so they can land again if they need a place to rest.  :)

[maize]

It sounds like he could benefit from some growth mindset mentoring.

 

Thinking in terms of smart/not smart is fixed mindset--kids who are praised for being smart may go on to choose less challenging options because they become afraid of failure, which they perceive as proof that they are not smart. Praising effort and hard work is better as it helps kids develop a mindset that working hard for something is good, rather than that having to work hard means you are not smart enough.

[catz]

I haven't read any responses.

 

I wouldn't worry about comparing him to others.  25 is a fine ACT score.  Maybe if he worked on it he would score higher.  But some kids really don't improve that much either.  The kid that sweat to get their 28 may do better in a college with the kid that effortlessly got a 33.  The ACT is a single score of a skill set on a single day.  It doesn't define people and it doesn't matter much in 10 years. 

 

The tone I would be setting is where would you be happy and what are your strengths.  How is his work ethic and motivation?  Who cares what others are doing.  A very rigorous approach is good for some kids and not for others which is fine and there is a range.  Many kids going into engineering programs are going to be super smart and that can be intimidating for kids who have been coasting especially.  Our flagship state school average ACT for the school of science and engineering where my DH and I attended is > 32.  Has he been looking into some of those types of programs?  It's ok if that is not for him. 

 

I think the procedural stuff toward college is good to have a hand in for most kids.  With them making the final choice on program/major/direction with possible financial and kid specific constraints set by parents.  With the finances involved especially I cannot imagine cutting a kid loose entirely with the way things are now.  I have a junior too.  It really is overwhelming. 

[Scarlett]

Our library system has a "life after high school" series of classes on financial aid, college essays and applications and career planning. Is there anything like that in your community? I attended with ds and while none of it was new to me (since I read the high school and college boards here!), it really helped ds to hear these things from "experts". And since he was surrounded by other teens and their parents he could see that he was not the only one going through this stage.

That sounds like a fantastic class. I doubt our small library has that but I am going to ask.

[Arcadia]

When I say that to my xh he says, 'wel you have to work 40 hours a week so you may as well make the most money you can'. I fundamentally do not believe either of those statements are true....and I feel like my son is getting very mixed messages.

Your xh is helping to pay for college right? The cost of college is already going to send lots of mixed messages from everywhere; friends, acquaintances, media.

 

Between two equally tedious and/or boring jobs, I’ll take the higher wage and benefits. I took a 60% pay cut for a year for a more relaxing job but my parents bankroll the difference to make that possible and I didn’t have a mortgage then.

 

Some of my relatives paths are zigzagging but they made it in their late 20s. Late to launch is in my family culture though so young adults get lots of help until they are in stable jobs.

 

Some juniors and seniors do better with checklist though when it comes to college applications. Bombardment of terms by other people would sound confusing otherwise. A friend with a 9th grader is puzzling out all the acronyms as is her child so they can make better use of the school guidance counselor’s time.

 

You and your xh has different perceptions and probably different value systems. Your son has to come to his own.

[Scarlett]

Our library system has a "life after high school" series of classes on financial aid, college essays and applications and career planning. Is there anything like that in your community? I attended with ds and while none of it was new to me (since I read the high school and college boards here!), it really helped ds to hear these things from "experts". And since he was surrounded by other teens and their parents he could see that he was not the only one going through this stage.

 

Dp

Edited November 6, 2017 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

It sounds like he could benefit from some growth mindset mentoring.

 

Thinking in terms of smart/not smart is fixed mindset--kids who are praised for being smart may go on to choose less challenging options because they become afraid of failure, which they perceive as proof that they are not smart. Praising effort and hard work is better as it helps kids develop a mindset that working hard for something is good, rather than that having to work hard means you are not smart enough.

I do know this is true. I read about this when ds was very little and I worked hard to praise effort and I still do.

[Scarlett]

Your xh is helping to pay for college right? The cost of college is already going to send lots of mixed messages from everywhere; friends, acquaintances, media.

 

Between two equally tedious and/or boring jobs, I’ll take the higher wage and benefits. I took a 60% pay cut for a year for a more relaxing job but my parents bankroll the difference to make that possible and I didn’t have a mortgage then.

 

Some of my relatives paths are zigzagging but they made it in their late 20s. Late to launch is in my family culture though so young adults get lots of help until they are in stable jobs.

 

Some juniors and seniors do better with checklist though when it comes to college applications. Bombardment of terms by other people would sound confusing otherwise. A friend with a 9th grader is puzzling out all the acronyms as is her child so they can make better use of the school guidance counselor’s time.

 

You and your xh has different perceptions and probably different value systems. Your son has to come to his own.

Yes he is paying for it. And yes I agree ds just has to figure out his own value system.

[Scarlett]

I haven't read any responses.

 

I wouldn't worry about comparing him to others. 25 is a fine ACT score. Maybe if he worked on it he would score higher. But some kids really don't improve that much either. The kid that sweat to get their 28 may do better in a college with the kid that effortlessly got a 33. The ACT is a single score of a skill set on a single day. It doesn't define people and it doesn't matter much in 10 years.

 

The tone I would be setting is where would you be happy and what are your strengths. How is his work ethic and motivation? Who cares what others are doing. A very rigorous approach is good for some kids and not for others which is fine and there is a range. Many kids going into engineering programs are going to be super smart and that can be intimidating for kids who have been coasting especially. Our flagship state school average ACT for the school of science and engineering where my DH and I attended is > 32. Has he been looking into some of those types of programs? It's ok if that is not for him.

 

I think the procedural stuff toward college is good to have a hand in for most kids. With them making the final choice on program/major/direction with possible financial and kid specific constraints set by parents. With the finances involved especially I cannot imagine cutting a kid loose entirely with the way things are now. I have a junior too. It really is overwhelming.

His work ethic is excellent and he gets a lot of praise from a lot of people for how he completes his obligations and commitments. When it comes to writing a paper for British Lit? He has no work ethic and no motivation.

 

So I ask him....how will you be ,oit aged to do college work if you won't even do thiis paper. He usually pulls it out in the end and makes an A bit it take a toll on his psyche and I dread what college might do to him. Maybe he will have to really fail at something before he gets himself together on studying. But as I type that I make him sound much worse than he is.

[JFSinIL]

"Smart" only gets you so far in life. Hard work, patience, follow-though, being reliable and not a jerk gets you much farther.

[Murphy101]

Well to be fair, most who take a gap year don't go back.

 

And the general ed requirements are mostly the same everywhere, so there's no need to have a major set in stone yet even if he goes to college now.

 

And, since we live in the same state, let me assure him that most of the students graduating high school here at not even getting a 25ACT. Now I don't think that's necessarily an indicator of smarts, but it's an indicator that he isn't as bad off academicly as he might think.

 

Go to a college. Or even just the community college. Pick 3 classes of gen ed and one class for fun. Be active there. Make study groups. Go to social events. Failure is assured to those who don't even try, so go try it.

 

ETA: The. biggest hurdle for many students is asking for help. Go to the math labs. Go to the study groups. See the professor during office hours for help. Those are not for the stupid kids. That's what the smart kids do. Drives me bonkers how many students just won't take advantage of all the help available to them bc of some misguided pride notion it will make them look stupid.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Murphy101

[Scarlett]

Well to be fair, most who take a gap year don't go back.

 

And the general ed requirements are mostly the same everywhere, so there's no need to have a major set in stone yet even if he goes to college now.

 

And, since we live in the same state, let me assure him that most of the students graduating high school here at not even getting a 25ACT. Now I don't think that's necessarily an indicator of smarts, but it's an indicator that he isn't as bad off academicly as he might think.

 

Go to a college. Or even just the community college. Pick 3 classes of gen ed and one class for fun. Be active there. Make study groups. Go to social events. Failure is assured to those who don't even try, so go try it.

 

ETA: The. biggest hurdle for many students is asking for help. Go to the math labs. Go to the study groups. See the professor during office hours for help. Those are not for the stupid kids. That's what the smart kids do. Drives me bonkers how many students just won't take advantage of all the help available to them bc of some misguided pride notion it will make them look stupid.

Yes this is one of his biggest problems. He refuses to ask his teachers for help. I think he does ask his vo-tech teacher for help so maybe the differences is being in person with them. I’m hoping anyway .

[Murphy101]

Yes this is one of his biggest problems. He refuses to ask his teachers for help. I think he does ask his vo-tech teacher for help so maybe the differences is being in person with them. I’m hoping anyway .

Being in person helps, but, seriously, he is going to need lots of coaching to be willing to stand out. Because they want to fit in and if they notice, and they do notice, that almost no one goes to study group or math lab or whatever - they will be hesitant to do it for fear of looking like the dumb kid or the teachers pet. But if they stick it out, they will quickly notice nearly all the returning students are students who did those things. All the kids who don't? They drop or fail their courses and don't come back. By the end of sophmore year, at a decent school, most of the students are pairing up for success and talking about when to study and who the most helpful teachers are.

[Arcadia]

Yes this is one of his biggest problems. He refuses to ask his teachers for help. I think he does ask his vo-tech teacher for help so maybe the differences is being in person with them. I’m hoping anyway .

Small class sizes, more hands on kind?

 

It’s easier to get help in a computer drafting class because teachers usually have the time to walk around and give pointers. It’s harder for a math or physics class where it is more lecture style and less discussions/tutorial style.

 

My oldest finds it easier to ask for help via email because he needs time to formulate what he wants to clarify and he also feels that the teacher can answer on his own time.

 

When asking in person, he feels he is preventing his teacher from going for lunch or going home, basically delaying his teacher’s departure time.

 

ETA:

I understand your preference for a commuter college but study groups from the get go helps. Those might be before the first class in the mornings over 2nd breakfast or after the last class in the late afternoons or early evenings. My commute to my alma mater was 1.5hrs to 2hrs during peak hours, 25mins when near midnight. I stayed at a university hostel since my study group studied until 11pm then go for late night supper during exam seasons.

My first degree was in civil engineering. We did drafting projects overnight on the better CAD/CAM machines and large plotters since we have round the clock access to our dept’s computer graphics labs.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Arcadia

[Acadie]

Yes this is one of his biggest problems. He refuses to ask his teachers for help. I think he does ask his vo-tech teacher for help so maybe the differences is being in person with them. I’m hoping anyway .

 

Not sure if this is mentioned upthread, but would he go to his vo-tech teacher to ask about next steps for school or work, maybe see if he could meet some graduates in fields that might interest him? I think it's super cool that he's motivated and excels in this class. So many high school kids haven't found a single subject where they really want to focus--if he could follow that, who knows where it might lead him....

 

Amy

[Murphy101]

I don’t think commuter classes work unless it’s a very short commute. They don’t get any of the energizing from fellow classmates interested in the same thing. They can’t participate in before, between, after school study session or social activities. They miss many last minute opportunities. They just don’t get as connected. And if they don’t connect, they don’t invest. And if they don’t invest time and energy and heart to it, they probably won’t get much out of it.

 

Said as a mom who does value the variety of education options while seeing that they aren’t all equal. Choose wisely and know thy child/student’s needs well.

[HS Mom in NC]

So people should be careful about getting locked into one path early on.  Most young adults don't know for sure what they want to do, so keeping an open mind that starting on one path and moving to a different path is another form of success.  You just have to be realistic about what it will cost to get to a certain goal and what kind of payoff is likely to result from it and that sometimes people give something a try that isn't exactly the right fit.

When our girls started adult education (cc at 15 and 17 in their situations; they're about to turn 20 and 22 now) we had them list out their options, what it would take to get there, and what a person could expect from it. For example, oldest considered studying to become a Creative Writing Professor which would require getting a PHD. She looked into that would cost in years and money. She added the community college cost, then priced universities around the country and if anyone was currently hiring.  Then she looked at what it paid.  Based on that she had an idea of kind of lifestyle that would support.  She also considered the cost of general studies at first so she would have a decent foundation if something else unanticipated came along that interested her.

She considered being a doula (birth and postpartum.) She added up the training and certification, supplies, going rates when hired  at agencies, working independently, conference costs, business and advertising fees, etc. for a sense of what kind of lifestyle that would in income and scheduling.

She started out in school, did incredibly well for a couple of years, and  won a writing competition among all the ccs in the area, but decided she really would like to try the doula route because it was very meaningful to her.  She has finished her birth and postpartum training and certifications, is currently with a local agency between births working postpartum with fragile preemie twins,is being paid to ghost write for her agency,  is studying for her childbirth educator exams and hospital policies in hopes of being hired by a hospital to teach their childbirth classes, turned down a offer with an agency in Portland,(COL is too high and it's not her target market) is considering an agency job in Columbus, had an offer in Toronto (work Visas become an issue) and will take any further births and postpartum work that comes along in the mean time.  Also, she's had talks with a hospice worker about their needs because doula work has some transferable skills to patients wanting to know about their options and be supported in their decisions and through the physical challenges at the end of life. 

Middle daughter started out taking lots of math and science classes because those were her interests and strengths.  When she took the placement tests she tested into their engineering program.  Being 15 I didn't want her locked into such a narrow path.  I told her to take the classes that really interested her and a year or two after we would revisit it.  After a year she realized that while she was always at the top of the class, she didn't want a career in science.  She wanted to work in an office.  So she started taking business classes and her AA was geared that way.  She was sure where she wanted to go into business; either an MBA or supply chain management so something like that.  So she decided to hire on with a temp agency that supplied office workers in different kinds of businesses.  She got hired on a new branch of an expanding construction agency handing all their clerical work, reorganizing their electronic files, doing data entry, and filing all the paperwork from the sub-contractors with insurance companies.  They loved her and hired her directly.  She had full pay and benefits. That company is struggling to go from small to medium and is terribly mismanaged, so she put resumes out and starts at an aviation company that refurbishes airplanes next week.

 

[Rosie_0801]

He loves auto cad, he's good at auto cad and people will pay him to do auto cad jobs?

 

Getting a job would allow him to:

Move out (which he wants to do)

Do one class of a degree each semester (which will mean he hasn't dropped out and he can pay upfront, avoiding student loans)

Save money for a house (which his father should value)

 

[catz]

Ok - I have mixed thoughts on commuting to college.  My husband did it through his entire undergrad and master's degree.  He was a very successful deans list student.  He was in a competitive program on a urban campus.  That was his ONLY option given his parents finances.  He paid for his own college education which was possible back in the day and the commute was about 10 miles. 

 

My junior is commuting to a part time dual enrollment program at a community college.  Most of his classes are online.  That has been absolutely fine.  He is just doing 2 classes.  They have been busy but pretty easy for him.  He has done a good job with follow up with his teachers on his own.  The community college is not a meaningful peer or social group for him and he has no interest hanging out there more than he needs to.  He's still neck deep in extra curriculars, enjoying "high school".  Dual enrollment is free for juniors and seniors here. 

 

Anyway - the rhetoric that insinuates it's never appropriate for a student to commute to college do bug me.  That comes from privilege.  Both financial and academic.  Not everyone can easily afford it.  Not every kid is prepared for it or needs it. 

 

That said, statistically full time college students who live on campus DO engage more and DO better than peers that are commuting.  They will network more and engage more socially.  They will seek out teachers sooner and are more likely to join meaningful clubs, etc.  If you are choosing a commute - does it make sense?  Is your student just wanting a part time/local experience?  Does your student have some LD's or academic considerations that might that a better choice?  I've ready many a story about 2E kids going off to a high end college and being back home at a commute option before their first year is out.  Some kids aren't ready for a full launch out the door at 18 but are more than ready for college academics.  Are finances an issue?  This is fair.  College expenses are nuts and room on board on campuses pretty regularly runs 10K+ for an academic year. 

 

My only thought is an hour is a LONG commute.  That is 2 hours a day a student could be studying or doing something else.  I would personally not be comfortable with more than a 20-30 minute commute if it made sense.  If we had to make this work, I would look at the program as a whole to see if classes could generally be booked 2-3 days a week and plan on spending very long days on campus on those days.  It would also make a difference if this was a 2 year vs. a 4 year option.

 

I also think looking at the ACT score makes sense when looking at specific programs or colleges.  Some doors may be open or shut by a particular standardized test score if you're looking for a more traditional college path.  It's good to be realistic up front.  Especially if you're in pursuit of financial aid/scholarship money. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by WoolySocks

[Seasider]

As are just barely adults.

[Murphy101]

It may help to know, woolysocks, that I agree with you 100%. Im not demeaning other avenues of education. I know exactly what resources are available to her son because she lives less than 2 hours from me. And one of my sons went to the same trade school she mentions. (Though it was several years earlier.)

 

My advice wasn’t based on a general opinion of all online or commuter situations, but of what is available in my area. I’ve been there.

 

In fact, scarlet, does your son know that he can transfer some of his tech school classes to the state university towards an applied science degree?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ds is in a two year transfer track at a former community college that now offers some limited four year degrees.  He commutes.  He's made friends.  He's gone to concerts and other events at the college.  His friends there participate in clubs and other activities there.  A commuter college might not be exactly the same as one with dorms but it isn't a soulless place with no options for friends, socialization and extra-curriucular activities.  It is also not "less than" a residential college necessarily.  Ds' college has challenging classes that compete just fine with our local flagship school and credits there transfer with no problem.  Obviously this is going to depend on the school but it bothers me when people write off certain options that can be perfectly good ones for some people.

 

Ds has taken Rosie's advice and is only taking one or two classes while he also works.  It has been a good way to go for him.  Dd might make totally different choices. 

[Murphy101]

People. Seriously. I’m the last to judge about commuting. Or trade school. Or CC. I’ve done them all with my kids.

 

But, imnsho, for my area, commutting only works when it’s a short commute. All my kids commute!! We can’t afford dorms!

 

A 2 hour a day commute is not likely to bode well for his outcome there. If nothing else, bc that’s 2 hours or more a day he can’t study, work, or be in class. I could be wrong and should they take this route, I sincerely hope I end up wrong. But I wouldn’t think the odds in his favor, and I would rather he stack as many odds in his favor for success as possible.

[SerenityNow]

I don't have any advice, but I did want to commiserate a bit.  My eighteen year old son has no interest in college.  He also has no interest in being parented (lol), so he has already moved out on his own.  Today he started his brand-new job as an entry-level machinist.  He will be welding, grinding metal, learning to drive a fork-lift, and probably lots of grunt work.  He doesn't enjoy academics and really wants to work with his hands.  And you know what?  I'm proud of him.  I'm sure lots of people would.... like you said.... view this as a "loser path."  But why?  He's doing good, honest work.  He's trying to learn new skills.  And he'll be making enough money to support himself and his girlfriend in a very modest style while she goes to community college.  If he changes his mind in the future it's never too late to pick a different path, but at least he had the guts to give this one a shot.

 

I hope your son finds a path that he loves.... college or not.  And I hope that nobody makes him feel like a loser for trying something he enjoys.

 

Hang in there, mama.   :grouphug:

[Amber in SJ]

I have found that placing an unusual emphasis on things like ACT scores is a funny thing that both of my homeschoolers who are now 23 & 20 did because somewhere deep down they thought higher score = smarter.  They hadn't had the experience of seeing someone who is a good test taker but a poor student do really well on a test, something that everyone in PS runs into multiple times.  

 

As a parent of one student who was hyper focused on a specific career who changed her mind 3 years into her degree and one student who has floated through three majors in three years I can tell you that nothing is set in stone.  General Ed. or University Core or whatever it is called is so very general that a student can take a handful of classes without even declaring a major.

 

For my 20 yo dd the traditional college route is not working with her health challenges, so our goal is to get her through the certificate program she loves right now, so she can get a job that will pay a living wage.  At the same time she is taking 1-2 online classes to continue working toward her undergraduate degree.  Some people have asked her why she is continuing to work toward her undergraduate degree when at the end of the program she is in she will be able to work in the field she is interested in and will earn enough money to be independent.  The answer is that we have learned is that no career is guaranteed and a degree will make her more employable in the future.

 

The almost adult & the newly adult are really tough to parent.  The transition from coach to cheerleader is hard on mom, that is for sure.  

 

Amber in SJ

 

 

[Scarlett]

It may help to know, woolysocks, that I agree with you 100%. Im not demeaning other avenues of education. I know exactly what resources are available to her son because she lives less than 2 hours from me. And one of my sons went to the same trade school she mentions. (Though it was several years earlier.)

 

My advice wasn’t based on a general opinion of all online or commuter situations, but of what is available in my area. I’ve been there.

 

In fact, scarlet, does your son know that he can transfer some of his tech school classes to the state university towards an applied science degree?

He hasn't got that far and I was pretty sure he could but I haven't talked much about that. He did respond to the counselor that reached out to him back in June when his first act results came back.

[JFSinIL]

I agree. I have suggested a gap year but again he is getting the message that people who take a gap year never go back. His dad tells him this for one. Plus he doesn't want to live here with us forever and he sees a gap year as just prolonging that time period.

 

Personally I think he would do really well with a gap year. Especially if he got a job drafting ( which Dh says he can get easily) . It would give him some exposure to the field in general and he might get motivated to figure things out.

 

Hey, didn't SWB's oldest take a gap year?  Let's make a list of known gap year kids who have gone on to college/Great Things.  ;-)

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

I haven't read all of the replies here but having one who just started college (dd) and a son that is going on 17, let me say....no two kids are the same.  My dd is on a full ride to a top ten university and her passion is learning.  She is happy to study and learn all.day.long.  DS looks at that and says "no way, I won't even apply to that university because I want a life outside of studying."  He is super well rounded and he doesn't want his life to be 99% schoolwork.  He values other things too much.  These two kids aren't right vs wrong, they are just different and they each hold different values when it comes to education.  DS is smart and he will do well but he won't go to a top ten university because he doesn't have the passion or drive to put that much energy into studying.  He just won't and that's ok.  

 

 

ETA - and oh dear, yes!  I would take toilet training and tantrums any day over some of the things we deal with when they are teens  :lol:   It feels like nothing is cut and dry and there are too many factors for anyone to feel certain they are doing this right.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Attolia

[catz]

I do think there are a few people who do look down their nose at people who aren't working tooth and nail to get their kid into the most competitive schools and aren't willing to forgo retirement for a $$$ school.  I also think there are a few who look down their nose at parents who are involved in the college process and don't think a degree is worth the paper it is printed on.  I have seen that rhetoric on this board.  More so in the past then currently.

 

But I think most people when they are talking about college are talking about their own experiences, their kids experiences, their perceptions of the process and aren't really thinking about making heady judgments about other people.  Humans are unique and no one experience or post high school outcome is right for every kid.  I wouldn't worry about what other people are doing and yes, there is always someone out there smarter than you or more academic than your or doing more than you.  But so what?  No one path is right for everyone.  Keeping your eyes on your own kid's path and needs is really where it is at. 

 

I think a gap year can be a great plan for some kids.  It was good enough for the former president's kid who is now at Harvard!  If he's a senior right now it's kind of late just to be figuring out what he wants to do for next year.  Most seniors I know are finishing up applications right now and have a clear sense of programs, credit transfers, etc.

 

SerenityNow - I think your 18 year old sounds like he's got his head on straight!  Good for him!