The Continuing Saga of Bear and the Mail Carrier

[dirty ethel rackham]

A couple of years ago, I posted about an issue I was having with my dog and the mail carrier. 

 

We kept Bear away from him and tried to be proactive about keeping him inside when the mailman came.  I thought things would get better when our old mail carrier, M, was moved to a different route.  We had several different carriers over the last couple of years.  Sometimes Bear got excited about it and other times he would not be bothered. 

 

Let me preface all of this with the fact that Bear is one of the friendliest dogs around ... the kind of dog who is so happy to see people that, at a family party/open house,  he has sprained his tail due to wagging it so much.  Even people who are not dog people seem to like Bear.

 

Well, over the last year, things have gotten much worse.  We have a regular carrier and several subs.  Our regular carrier seems to be a nice young man who is "cool with dogs."  He never gets riled when Bear barks a bit if we happen to come home or be going to the car when he comes.  But, Bear is getting more and more reactive.  When we are out walking, if he sees a mail carrier (any mail carrier, even women) walking on the other side of the street, he starts barking and pulling me to try to get across the street.  I try to keep a look out and turn around if I see we are going to encounter one.  Since our neighborhood is a training route, we cannot count on a consistent mail delivery time.  Often it is around 1 pm, but it can be as early as 10 am or as late as 5 pm. 

 

Today scared me.  I was hurrying to get to the car to pick up dd from school and took the dog with since he loves car rides (and he has been cooped up a lot with the rain.)  I started the garage door opener and was taking Bear toward the car when he started pulling and barking.  The door was not fully open yet so I could not see.  I held firmly and tried to pull him back toward me when he made a lunge, which jerked my sore shoulder and I hit my head on the opening door.  The leash was pulled out of my hand and Bear tore across the street to the neighbor's front door to confront the mail carrier.  I ran across the street (well walked as fast as I could since I can't run on this ankle),  calling him and telling him to stop (stop is a command he tends to obey more consistently than come when he is distracted.)  Bear stopped a few feet away and was barking like crazy.  The mail carrier kept his cool and told Bear to stop and stay.  I got the dog out of there as quickly as I could and profusely apologized. 

 

Bear is 7 years old.  We have had him for nearly 6 years.  He is still a total sweetheart at home.  He just has a couple of instances where he just goes bananas.  (The mailman and one other dog in the neighborhood who lives several blocks away.)  I am at a loss.  If these were things that happened at predictable times, l could be prepared and work on clicker training.  They just happen at such unpredictable times.  We can't just not walk the dog since he needs at least two decent (over a mile) walks a day. 

 

I do have an appointment to take  him to the vet next week for a check up.  He doesn't seem to have any health issues. 

 

Oh, and please, no flames here.  He is a member of our family.  He is my most loyal companion who loves me more than anyone else on this planet, family included. 

 

 

 

 

[Valley Girl]

 

I have no expertise to offer, but your last line tugged at my heart. Just wanted to say that I think you're wise to consult the vet. It's obvious that you're concerned both about Bear's well-being AND the safety of others. I hope someone is able to offer you some BTDT advice that helps.

 

ETA: Didn't mean to quote, just respond.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Reluctant Homeschooler

[ashfern]

Since it's unpredictable when the mail carriers will be out, could you use a muzzle on him so if he gets away he wouldn't be able to bite anyone?

[zoobie]

I'd ask the vet for a good behaviorist recommendation. I hope you can figure out a solution.

[lea1]

Maybe the mail carriers need to carry treats to give to the dogs so it is re-framed as a positive encounter.  (but I don't know because I have never had a dog...we have cats at our house).  Good luck with finding a solution.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I agree with finding a behaviorist.  Many mail carriers do carry dog treats but it's not like you can force them to carry them.  And the dog has to get pretty close to receive the treats.

 

I would put the dog in a sit- stay every single time you see a mail carrier even in the distance.  Then I would focus on having the dog walk at heel.  I'm wondering if you might need the behaviorist to also help with dog training since it sounds like he does not have good recall. 

 

I'm concerned that you might not have good control of the dog.  I'm not criticizing and I don't know if that was a fluke based on the door going up or not.  But if you are not strong enough to control the dog if he really wants to run off, then I would find a new harness or leash that gives you better control.  I like the gentle leader for my "wild dog"  but that might not be the best for your particular dog.  The sad fact is that if the dog does get loose and actually biters someone, the likelihood of the dog needing to be put down (due to that being required) is high. 

[Pawz4me]

I agree with a behaviorist, and with finding something that gives you more control over him in the meantime. I don't really think that's a Gentle Leader, though. If he'd been wearing one of those today the incident probably never would have happened, but he also might have done some serious damage to his spine. If a dog takes off full throttle and his head gets jerked around very suddenly when he hits the end of the lead . . . not good.

 

I'm a pretty big fan of prong collars. They look like medieval torture devices but it's a case of looks being misleading. A front clip harness could work, but they can be a challenge to find one that fits well.

 

An acquaintance had a boxer several years ago who showed increasing aggression every time someone came to their door. A prescription of anxiety medication (I forget which one, unfortunately) worked wonders for her.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Pawz4me

[Anne in CA]

I just wanted to say I am sorry. Our own dog, a Golden, is such a lover that he must constantly be monitored to keep from scaring people with his exuberance. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

Thanks for all of your input and for being gentle with me.  Life has been really hard these last few years and I feel like I am barely holding my head above water as far as emotional energy is concerned.

 

Since it's unpredictable when the mail carriers will be out, could you use a muzzle on him so if he gets away he wouldn't be able to bite anyone?

I am concerned that a muzzle will create more fear and anxiety.  He is relaxed and happy 99.9% of the time we are outside.  I fear that a muzzle will do more harm than good.  We have only had to muzzle him once ... to allow the vet to examine an injury when he was protective of it. 

 

I'd ask the vet for a good behaviorist recommendation. I hope you can figure out a solution.

I got the names of a couple and have emails into them.  One got back to me.  We will investigate further after we see the vet in a couple of days. 

 

I agree with finding a behaviorist.  Many mail carriers do carry dog treats but it's not like you can force them to carry them.  And the dog has to get pretty close to receive the treats.

 

I would put the dog in a sit- stay every single time you see a mail carrier even in the distance.  Then I would focus on having the dog walk at heel.  I'm wondering if you might need the behaviorist to also help with dog training since it sounds like he does not have good recall. 

 

I'm concerned that you might not have good control of the dog.  I'm not criticizing and I don't know if that was a fluke based on the door going up or not.  But if you are not strong enough to control the dog if he really wants to run off, then I would find a new harness or leash that gives you better control.  I like the gentle leader for my "wild dog"  but that might not be the best for your particular dog.  The sad fact is that if the dog does get loose and actually biters someone, the likelihood of the dog needing to be put down (due to that being required) is high. 

We plan to work with a behaviorist.  Despite years of training, he has never had good recall when fully focused on something else.  He responds better to "stop", but no amount of training has been able to interrupt him from chasing the once in a blue moon coyote or the freak pheasant that appeared in our neighbor's manicured yard.  He is a rock star as far as responding when on the training lead or when he knows you have hot dogs in your pocket.  But that is not real life. 

 

We had tried the Gentle Leader in the past and he would not wear it.  We never got to the point of leaving the house with it on because he never learned to tolerate it.  Plus, like Pawz mentioned, it would likely have injured his neck in this instance.  We will probably use the Easy Walk harness instead.  It is not that I don't have control.  Normally I do (and I am the weakest member of the family as far as physical strength goes.)  It was really the combination of the dog getting under the garage door as it opened and pulling me into the door, causing me to hit my head that led to me letting go of the leash.  Now we know that this is a hazardous way to leave the house and are working around that.  Opening the door ahead of time before letting the dog out so that I can scan the area for potential distraction and reactivity triggers. 

 

I agree with a behaviorist, and with finding something that gives you more control over him in the meantime. I don't really think that's a Gentle Leader, though. If he'd been wearing one of those today the incident probably never would have happened, but he also might have done some serious damage to his spine. If a dog takes off full throttle and his head gets jerked around very suddenly when he hits the end of the lead . . . not good.

 

I'm a pretty big fan of prong collars. They look like medieval torture devices but it's a case of looks being misleading. A front clip harness could work, but they can be a challenge to find one that fits well.

 

An acquaintance had a boxer several years ago who showed increasing aggression every time someone came to their door. A prescription of anxiety medication (I forget which one, unfortunately) worked wonders for her.

We will go with the Easy Walk Harness.  We have had success with that in the past.  I use it in the winter when it is slippery outside, but haven't needed it during good weather until this recent reactivity. 

 

While we are waiting on the vet visit and consultation with a behaviorist, the whole family is on high alert. Part of the problem is that we have gotten lax about some things due to the difficulties in our family these last few years.  I am sure the stress in the house has affected the dog and we have been overwhelmed.  

 

After reading a few online articles, we are going to implement a few strategies. 

 

Before opening any door or letting the dog out, do a visual sweep of the area so that we are prepared for any reaction triggers ... either avoidance by delaying exit or proactive commands and rewards.  Also, not let the dog get ahead of us until we know the coast is clear. 

Reduce visibility to the outside to reduce visual triggers.  We may have to go with frosted glass decals on the lower parts of the windows so that he can't watch the street and get vocal about the neighbors working in their yards (a recent behavior.)  I read an article links this with mail carrier reactivity. 

Reinstate and reinforce good door manners.  Go to spot.  Stay.  Not getting between us and the visitor until invited to say hello. 

Reinforcing the "Look at me" command whenever we see a distraction when out on our walks ... each and every time.  If the distraction is bigger, going with the sit-stay until the distraction has passed. 

We will also turn around for the big reaction triggers (like the mail carrier and one particular dog.) 

Reinforce a sit-stay until we give permission to greet people and reinforcing the proper greeting behavior (go sniff and come back.)  We have been doing a form of this, but not as consistently because he really hadn't been a problem until recently. 

 

Anything else I am missing? 

[Daria]

You seem to be saying that if it was predictable you'd be able to do more training around it.  Do you have friends or a behaviorist who could impersonate a mail carrier?    Unfortunately the only adult sized costume I could find for you was a "sexy one" (yes, really, you can be a sexy mail carrier for Halloween for just $39.99, I am not linking, you'll have to google it yourself), but perhaps if you asked at the post office they could lend you something?  

[cera2]

The only other thing I can think of to try might be positive reinforcement with the mail carrier.  You said you have one carrier who is okay with dogs and isn't phased when he barks.  Maybe try having that carrier offer a treat each time he comes (leave a box of them in the mailbox and have him start by just taking it out and setting it down where your dog can see it, work up to actually giving it to him if that becomes possible).  

 

We had decent luck acclimating our dog to a neighbor who he absolutely hated this way (the only person he has ever growled at).  They still aren't friends, but my dog can now see him without wanting to eat him which is all I needed.

[dirty ethel rackham]

You seem to be saying that if it was predictable you'd be able to do more training around it. Do you have friends or a behaviorist who could impersonate a mail carrier? Unfortunately the only adult sized costume I could find for you was a "sexy one" (yes, really, you can be a sexy mail carrier for Halloween for just $39.99, I am not linking, you'll have to google it yourself), but perhaps if you asked at the post office they could lend you something?

Our mail carriers are rarely in full uniform. Not even the guy who seems to be the most regular. Some I had a hard time distinguishing from those people who stick flyers in the door. I don't know how Bear knows it is a mail carrier. Even the bag varies.

 

We will likely recruit some people to help with door manners, though.

 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[Junie]

As I was reading your post I wondered if perhaps Bear had been victimized by a mail carrier in the past.

 

I don't know anything about dogs (I'm allergic to everything from hamsters to horses), but it just seems that somehow the sight of a mail carrier is a trigger of a past event.  :(

[ktgrok]

Can you work on counter conditioning and desensitization AT the post office? Ours has lots of the trucks outside, and obviously there would be some staff, etc. You'd have to start down the block or across the street or whatever, and gradually move closer as his behavior indicated he was ready. 

 

 

[dirty ethel rackham]

As I was reading your post I wondered if perhaps Bear had been victimized by a mail carrier in the past.

 

I don't know anything about dogs (I'm allergic to everything from hamsters to horses), but it just seems that somehow the sight of a mail carrier is a trigger of a past event.   :(

Hmm... I don't know.  We've had him for over 5 years and for the first 3 years, mail carriers were just friends that came by every day.  We did have some issues with our old mail carrier, M, 2 years ago who was terrified of dogs and should never have been assigned a walking route.  M yelled at me thinking my dog was loose and going to get him ( he was calmly working on recall exercises in our side yard on a 20 ft training lead - more than 30 feet away from M.)  I was upset by the confrontation and Bear picked up on it.  But Bear didn't have a problem with the other mail carriers.  This has been in the last 6 months that he has been barking every day when the mail comes and he is getting more and more upset about it.  Then he started getting riled up seeing carriers on their route when we were out walking - like a mile from home.  And not the same carrier.  It is weird.

 

Can you work on counter conditioning and desensitization AT the post office? Ours has lots of the trucks outside, and obviously there would be some staff, etc. You'd have to start down the block or across the street or whatever, and gradually move closer as his behavior indicated he was ready. 

Great idea.  I'll have to see about that.  I'm trying to think of where I could do that at our main post office.  I would want to work on it while he was contained in the car first, but the parking lot for customers is on the other side of the building from where the trucks are parked.  Maybe at the Jewel parking lot across the street.  I'll have to see if neighboring towns have a better layout for this venture. 

[Pawz4me]

Does your mail carrier drive a vehicle -- a mail truck? Sometimes I think it's the vehicle that sets them off as much as it is the person. Mail trucks, UPS, Fed Ex--none of them sound or behave like most regular vehicles. They start/stop frequently and brake/accelerate in ways that other vehicles usually don't. Plus many mail trucks almost seem to dart from one stop to another. I'm guessing from a dog's perspective mail trucks and delivery trucks sound very loud and seem very erratic in their movements. I think it's not impossible that he's equating stuff like that with a person showing up at the door quickly and leaving just as quickly. Those are all the kinds of things that to us make sense, but to a dog scream "threat" or "danger." It may be the sound of the truck somewhere in the neighborhood, even if you can't hear it, puts him on alert and primed for action long before the mailman shows up at your house.

 

But my theory could be wrong -- Maybe you live in an area where the mailman really does walk from house to house with a vehicle parked far away? I've never been in that situation. Even when we lived in a big cookie cutter neighborhood with houses on tiny lots the mailmen still drove through.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Pawz4me

[dirty ethel rackham]

Does your mail carrier drive a vehicle -- a mail truck? Sometimes I think it's the vehicle that sets them off as much as it is the person. Mail trucks, UPS, Fed Ex--none of them sound or behave like most regular vehicles. They start/stop frequently and brake/accelerate in ways that other vehicles usually don't. Plus many mail trucks almost seem to dart from one stop to another. I'm guessing from a dog's perspective mail trucks and delivery trucks sound very loud and seem very erratic in their movements. I think it's not impossible that he's equating stuff like that with a person showing up at the door quickly and leaving just as quickly. Those are all the kinds of things that to us make sense, but to a dog scream "threat" or "danger." It may be the sound of the truck somewhere in the neighborhood, even if you can't hear it, puts him on alert and primed for action long before the mailman shows up at your house.

 

But my theory could be wrong -- Maybe you live in an area where the mailman really does walk from house to house with a vehicle parked far away? I've never been in that situation. Even when we lived in a big cookie cutter neighborhood with houses on tiny lots the mailmen still drove through.

I don't know if it is the truck, but I have my doubts. It depends on the carrier I guess. They can usually do at least two routes of a few blocks from one parked location. Not like that package delivery services that stop and start. Although Bear gets excited when we get a package, the tone of the bark and the duration is nothing like the mailman. And when we are out walking and he sees a package delivered to someone else, he is unfazed.

 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[Tap]

Maybe you should start mailing him treats!  Kinda joking, but kinda serious.  Maybe he needs a happier connection to the mail.  Send some in letters, some in large envelopes, some in small boxes.  If you have a mail box, put a stash in there so you can reward him for good behavior.

[Ausmumof3]

A couple of years ago, I posted about an issue I was having with my dog and the mail carrier.

 

We kept Bear away from him and tried to be proactive about keeping him inside when the mailman came. I thought things would get better when our old mail carrier, M, was moved to a different route. We had several different carriers over the last couple of years. Sometimes Bear got excited about it and other times he would not be bothered.

 

Let me preface all of this with the fact that Bear is one of the friendliest dogs around ... the kind of dog who is so happy to see people that, at a family party/open house, he has sprained his tail due to wagging it so much. Even people who are not dog people seem to like Bear.

 

Well, over the last year, things have gotten much worse. We have a regular carrier and several subs. Our regular carrier seems to be a nice young man who is "cool with dogs." He never gets riled when Bear barks a bit if we happen to come home or be going to the car when he comes. But, Bear is getting more and more reactive. When we are out walking, if he sees a mail carrier (any mail carrier, even women) walking on the other side of the street, he starts barking and pulling me to try to get across the street. I try to keep a look out and turn around if I see we are going to encounter one. Since our neighborhood is a training route, we cannot count on a consistent mail delivery time. Often it is around 1 pm, but it can be as early as 10 am or as late as 5 pm.

 

Today scared me. I was hurrying to get to the car to pick up dd from school and took the dog with since he loves car rides (and he has been cooped up a lot with the rain.) I started the garage door opener and was taking Bear toward the car when he started pulling and barking. The door was not fully open yet so I could not see. I held firmly and tried to pull him back toward me when he made a lunge, which jerked my sore shoulder and I hit my head on the opening door. The leash was pulled out of my hand and Bear tore across the street to the neighbor's front door to confront the mail carrier. I ran across the street (well walked as fast as I could since I can't run on this ankle), calling him and telling him to stop (stop is a command he tends to obey more consistently than come when he is distracted.) Bear stopped a few feet away and was barking like crazy. The mail carrier kept his cool and told Bear to stop and stay. I got the dog out of there as quickly as I could and profusely apologized.

 

Bear is 7 years old. We have had him for nearly 6 years. He is still a total sweetheart at home. He just has a couple of instances where he just goes bananas. (The mailman and one other dog in the neighborhood who lives several blocks away.) I am at a loss. If these were things that happened at predictable times, l could be prepared and work on clicker training. They just happen at such unpredictable times. We can't just not walk the dog since he needs at least two decent (over a mile) walks a day.

 

I do have an appointment to take him to the vet next week for a check up. He doesn't seem to have any health issues.

 

Oh, and please, no flames here. He is a member of our family. He is my most loyal companion who loves me more than anyone else on this planet, family included.

Does your mail carrier wear high vis? Our dog goes crazy every time someone comes round with high vis or reflective stuff on their clothes. He has various issues we are trying to work with but this is a big one.