My dd has had several episodes of "blacking out"....what's going on?

[astrid]

Hi there,

Over the past three months or so, Molly has had about three episodes of "blacking out" as she calls them. She seems fine, but then suddenly goes WHITE. She says that she feels suddenly very hot and nauseous, and all she can see is black. Everything sounds like it's very far away, and she just kind of sinks down and sits. About thirty seconds later, she's fine, though sometimes says she has pain behind her eyeballs. The rest of the day she's perfectly normal.

 

First episode: hot, humid August day, on stage during a rehearsal in full costume, kneeling on the floor for about 30 minutes straight. Her director called me to come get her, which I did, and we just blamed the heat.

 

Second episode: Watching the sheep-shearing demonstration at a big state fair. We sat her down, gave her some water and some nuts (protein) and she was fine for the rest of the day.

 

Third episode: Taking a shower just now. I happened to be in the bathroom putting away clean towels, though Molly didn't know I was there. I heard "Mama!" and when I tore back the shower curtain she was sitting in the tub, white as a sheet though she had the hot water pouring down on her.

 

Molly is 11, just started her period this month (though it doesn't appear to be related to her cycle) and healthy as a horse. She's had a big growth spurt in the past year, and is tall and lanky.

 

I"m about to call the ped. but the catch is that I'm leaving for a conference in Baltimore at noon, so IF we get an appt, he'd have to take her (not a problem, but I'd like to be there, you know?)

 

Or is it not something to call about now, since it seems to have passed? But three episodes warrants investigation, no? Help me out here, I'm a chronic under-reacter.

 

Thanks,

Astrid, a worried mom

[TeacherZee]

Definitely Doctor!

 

I think maybe her blood sugar might be dropping since it sounds similar to what happens to me sometimes and I always feel better after some food/sugar:001_smile:

 

But definitely doctor!

[Pink Fairy]

Do you have access to an advice nurse? Our medical group has registered nurses that you can speak to at any time, day or night. I usually go that route if I'm not sure how important/urgent something is.

 

:grouphug:'s to you! I'd be worried too.

[astrid]

That's what I thought at first, but she had just eaten breakfast an hour before, both this morning and the morning we went to the fair to watch sheep-shearing. Could it still be low blood sugar?

 

astrid

[Ottakee]

Could be any number of things.

 

Seizures

Migraines

low blood sugar

 

The doctor will likely do some basic blood work (have them check thyroid as well) and maybe order an EEG (for seizures).

 

[

[BMW]

My daughter did this several times and still struggles with it. It can be scary. I think you should notify the Dr. right away and get in for an appointment, even if you have to "be there" by calling in.

 

Our Dr. did heart tests immediately. Dd has an irregular heart beat, but is not in danger, necessarily. The Dr. said, based on the test results, that her episodes were mostly due to hydration and stress. He told her to drink much more every day and see if they continued and if they did to get right back in. The episodes stopped.

 

But, it could have been worse news. So, I'd say, get in touch and talk with an advice nurse and get an appointment.

[TeacherZee]

That's what I thought at first, but she had just eaten breakfast an hour before, both this morning and the morning we went to the fair to watch sheep-shearing. Could it still be low blood sugar?

 

astrid

 

I think so. This might sound a bit silly but for me it seems to go back even further than just breakfast. If I haven't eaten right the day before that can impact on it. So it is almost as if the breakfast is a previous meal if that makes sense.

 

You also say that she has recently had a growth spurt, it might be that she needs a bit more food.

 

I still say take her to the doctor. I am a "better safe than sorry" person :001_smile:

[TraceyS/FL]

That's what I thought at first, but she had just eaten breakfast an hour before, both this morning and the morning we went to the fair to watch sheep-shearing. Could it still be low blood sugar?

 

astrid

 

An hour is about the time i drop from eating sugar wise.

 

Do call and get that appointment.

 

:grouphug:

[Needleroozer]

Another thing to have the dr. check is her thyroid levels. I started blacking out 2 months after I started having my period, which is about when my thyroid stopped functioning. Just to be sure........

[Denisemomof4]

we've been trying to get a diagnosis for this for over four years now. We first were told she had a heart issue, then were told her heart was fine. Then we were told she had seizures and a brain abnormality, then Boston Childrens told us her brain is normal, could be having seizures, definite migraine issues. We've been followed up for one year now, the doctor is ruling out seizures.

 

My daughter's lips also turned blue during this time, and she has fallen down stairs, vertigo has caused her not to be able to stand and therefore she'd hit her head, etc. I'm frustrated because we've been to a pediatric cardiologist, four pediatric neurologists and three pediatricians. They all say it's migraine, yet I can't read ANYWHERE that migraines cause her lips to turn blue.

 

Through all of this we discovered my daughter has a pineal cyst on her brain stem, and I'm CONVINCED this is her issue. That said, don't let this post worry you! If your daughter has had an MRI and nothing has been seen, she doesn't have one. Besides, most people have no issues with these, other than headache or migraine. At least that's what we're told.

 

I know about blood sugar issues and I feel strongly this is not related. While I make sure my daughter eats and hydrates regularly, the heat temp and other symptoms show me it is not a BS issue.

 

Go to the doctor to make sure nothing is going on!

Denise

[abbeyej]

Ds passes out. Usually it seems to be a combination of moderate dehydration and standing still (usually after lots of movement). We did take him to the pediatrician the second time it happened, and they ruled out any major concerns. The doctor said the fact that he was always fine *while* he was running around and that it happened when he was standing still was good. It's just a vasovagal reaction...

 

We try to keep him well-hydrated, and when sending him off to soccer camp or some other activity where he would be prone to dehydration, I send his Klean Kanteen filled with electrolyte water instead of our usual filtered tap water. And now ds knows that if he starts to feel a faint coming on, he gets low to the ground and puts his head down.

 

The doctor also recommended increasing his salt intake, so I sometimes try to give him a cup of miso with breakfast. I really should be more consistent about doing this though...

 

Basically, some kids are just prone to this... If Molly were my dd, I'd definitely take her in to the pediatrician, but what you describe sounds very much like ds... And if it's the same, it's scary for us as moms, but probably not truly dangerous.

 

ETA: I just wanted to add that for ds, blood sugar is *not* a factor in his fainting. He had eaten just fine on the days this happened... He had not, however, drunk nearly enough...

Edited October 22, 2008 by abbeyej

[LNC]

Vasovagal syncope

 

I have had this since I was 8yo:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vasovagal-syncope/DS00806

 

I now take a Beta Blocker, started at 30yo. When I was younger they always told me to prevent deydration and drink, drink, drink. The hot weather and showers always drop my blood pressure and down I go! Also, any sudden shock would do me in - like seeing blood or whatever. I knew to put my head below my legs when I felt faint. I would still see a doctor, but this is a harmless problem.

[Quiver0f10]

My DD went through this last spring/summer, but actually fainted a few times too. We saw the Dr who did blood work, ekg, eeg, CT and Xrays and found nothing. I think it was low blood sugar and have been making sure she eats protien and a good carb with each meal, doesn't go to long without eating and is getting plenty of fluids. She hasn't had an episode since we started watching meals/fluids more carefully.

[Soph the vet]

Vasovagal syncope

 

I have had this since I was 8yo:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vasovagal-syncope/DS00806

 

I now take a Beta Blocker, started at 30yo. When I was younger they always told me to prevent deydration and drink, drink, drink. The hot weather and showers always drop my blood pressure and down I go! Also, any sudden shock would do me in - like seeing blood or whatever. I knew to put my head below my legs when I felt faint. I would still see a doctor, but this is a harmless problem.

Syncope was one of my first thoughts given her symptoms, even though she is not a dog:D.

Other possibilities:

Cardiac

Hypoglycemia

Neuro

Hormonal

The bottom line is get her checked out ASAP.

[Alice]

Vasovagal syncope is my first thought. Hypoglycemia and migraines are other good thoughts.

 

I would have her checked out. She's probably fine but it's good to make sure it isn't cardiac related.

[Dani n Monies Mom]

DD12 had opthamolic migraines when she first started her cycle at 11. She hasn't had any problems since she's turned 12. My family has a long history of migraines, so it seemed to fit. I, in particular, used to get debilitating migraines with my cycle when I was a teen.

 

HTH,

Ava

[KidsHappen]

I was especially scared because my dd appeared to be having seizures as well and two of my dbs have epilepsy. After the full round of doctors, neurologists, MRIs, the official diagnosis was Vasovagal Syncope. Apparently very common in preteen - teen age girls. Our dr. recommended cutting back on caffiene, energy drinks, and sugar. Increasing water, salt and protein. We have made some sdjustments and haven't had any more problems since. Molly probably has the same thing but you definitely want to have her checked out at some point (probably not an emergency).

[Quad Shot Academy]

I had this same thing start happening to me when I was that age. I went through EEG's, EKG,s, glucose tests and numerous other ones. It got so bad that I could not stand still for longer than 5 minutes w/o it happening. If it only happens to her while standing still, I bet it is the same thing I have. I ended up finding out that my blood vessels dilate instead of contract while standing. I have orthostatic blood pressure.

http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/medical/orthostatic.html It is easily diagnosed by taking her blood pressure and heart rate while lying down, then sitting, then standing. If her pulse soars and her blood pressure drops while standing, she has orthostatic blood pressure.

A decade after I was diagnosed, I inadvertently found out what was causing it: food allergies. If I eat foods I am allergic to, I have episodes, but if I abstain, I don't!

[dcjlkplus3]

Take her to the doctor.

This happened to me a few times as a teenager. The Dr. was concerned with the level of iron in my blood - I was not anemic, but that was one of the things they tested. The blood sugar makes sense too. Maybe more of a protein rich (as opposed to carbs) breakfast might help.

[Pammy]

I was especially scared because my dd appeared to be having seizures as well and two of my dbs have epilepsy. After the full round of doctors, neurologists, MRIs, the official diagnosis was Vasovagal Syncope. Apparently very common in preteen - teen age girls. Our dr. recommended cutting back on caffiene, energy drinks, and sugar. Increasing water, salt and protein. We have made some sdjustments and haven't had any more problems since. Molly probably has the same thing but you definitely want to have her checked out at some point (probably not an emergency).

 

 

The first time it happened was in the shower, and she passed out. It was very scary!

[KAM]

Hi,

 

I've had issues like this forever- the things I've found out that contribute to it are: I'm hypoglycemic, prone to iron deficiency anemia, & my blood pressure drops abnormally low when I change position (this is pretty common & has a fancy name that eludes me). I hope you figure it out & wish your dd well!

[Jenny in Florida]

The first black-out I remember happened when I was about 10. I was standing in the bathroom letting my mother put up my hair when my vision began to go wonky. (I compare it to when the cable goes out on the TV and everything gets pixelated or "snowy.") It started at the edges of my vision and spread to the center. Then I passed out and fell down.

 

My parents took me to the doctor, and I spent the next couple of days having various tests. The thinking was that I probably had epilepsy. (I had also had a couple of fever-induced seizures when I was a baby.) Once they ruled that out, they sent me home and told my parents to bring me back if it happened again.

 

It didn't. Well, at least not for a long time.

 

The next time anything similar came up was when I was about 12, I think. I started noticing that I would get light-headed and/or quesy when I stood up quickly. My mother took me to the doctor, who began from the presumption that I had some kind of ear infection. Once he ruled that out, he told me to stand up more slowly and assured my mother I would grow out of it.

 

I didn't.

 

Over the years, I just kind of got used to certain things: I had to stand up relatively slowly. I got light-headed when I stood in one place for too long or walked too slowly. (Visiting museum exhibits, where you stand for a bit looking at one piece, then take two steps and stand again for a while were always problematic for me.) I got light-headed when I spent any significant amount of time in very hot, humid weather. I couldn't tolerate hot baths or jacuzzis.

 

But I didn't have any other signifiant incidents until I was an adult. In my mid-20s, I had several episodes. Once, I passed out waiting in a long line at the grocery store. They had to call my husband to come collect me. Another time, I got woozy taking the train to work when I had to stand. Assorted stuff like that.

 

I went through several doctors, each of whom had a pet theory -- neurological, cardiac, blood sugar, etc. Each time, once the doctor ruled out his pet theory, he would send me home with instructions to call if it got worse or anything new happened.

 

Eventually, I found the answer on my own, researching on the internet. I went to yet another doctor, showed him my research, told him what tests he needed to order to confirm the diagnosis and what he would need to prescribe once he did so. I was right.

 

I have a condition called neurally-mediated hypotension/syncope, which basically means that my brain sometimes fails to properly regulate my blood pressure. When the pressure drops too low, I pass out.

 

Here's a good, brief explanation: http://www.ndrf.org/ParoxymalAutonomicSyncope.htm

 

And here's an older, but clearly written, article, with more detailed information: http://members.tripod.com/~BrendaShue/nmh2.html

 

At the time I was diagnosed, the most common treatment was beta blocker drugs. I had to go off those, though, when we decided to have another baby. And since that time, I've done very well just knowing my own triggers and managing them. For example, since I know that standing still for too long is a problem, I make sure to move around more. We were at a museum the other day, and I occasionally had to leave the rest of the family reading plaques while I walked around the room to keep my circulation going. I also know not to plan long days at the theme parks in the midst of a Florida summer.

 

Obviously, I'm not an expert, but several things you mentioned in your post sounded very familiar, including the fact that some of her episodes were associated with heat and/or hot water.

[The Governess]

Is it possible she is just locking her knees or otherwise not getting enough circulation? It sounds like all of the times it has happened she has been standing still or holding a certain position. I would definitely take her to the doctor, but maybe in the meantime trying to make sure she bends her knees, changes position, etc. could help, and making sure she's hydrated.

 

Hopefully it's nothing serious. I had a couple of black-out instances when I was a teenager, and haven't had one since, and had a friend who passed out several times during her teen years as well, and it doesn't happen to her anymore either.

 

:grouphug: