Free Birth Control; Children Up to 26; Pre-Existing Conditions; Free Mammograms, etc. If these matter to you...

[Barb_]

Like preventing a blood clot? Maybe with daily exercise and healthy eating?

 

I worked out 3 hours a day 5 days a week and was a health nut for years before giving birth to my son resulted in a stroke. How could I have prevented a stroke in my early 20's when I was already working out and eating healthy? I couldn't. And neither could you.

 

Know what happens when you go from that level of physical activity to barely able to walk? Weight gain, and health issues. No avoiding it. I worked my butt off to regain use of my left side while caring for a newborn. It was NOTHING like my workout before and you know what? I gained weight. Anyone would.

 

Exercise and healthy eating were not enough. It is not the end all.

 

I now know that there was early signs when I was 9, but since I ate well and was active the doctors felt that was enough.

Exactly, what are we going to do, tax heart disease and diabetes? My dad, my only brother two grandads, my mom, and a slew of great grandparents have all had cardiovascular disease. My dad and brother have been on bp meds since their 20s. My genetic lottery sucks in that regard. Even still I was shocked when I developed morbid hypertension in my early 40s. 187/110 was my highest uncontrolled reading. I'm 5-4 and weigh 117lbs. I was an early adopter of the home-cooking whole foods lifestyle. I run. Not consistently, but I do. I do yoga, I meditate, I take supplements. But my Blood pressure continues to creep up. I'm on two meds now and it's not controlled. My body pisses me off sometimes. I sometimes feel betrayed because I do all of the "right" things and my body doesn't respond. I suppose I should be thankful I can afford the meds or I'd probably be dead.

[SereneHome]

I don't disagree with this.  But where does anyone even claim to start addressing it?  Getting rid of the ACA won't fix these problems.  ACA was a flawed in so many ways.  But at least somebody finally did *something*.  It was a start.  I don't see that going back to the previous status quo will change anything.

 

But that "something" is not really better than "nothing" in many regards.  Yes, there are portions of ACA that I think are very beneficial for us (as a society).  But we didn't need a huge health care reform to simply introduce some new provisions.

 

The colossal cost that is associated with that huge reform could been spent much much better.

 

I very firmly believe that an average family is one serious illness away from either BK or complete financial ruin.  ACA didn't really change that.  It shifted some costs around, but overall, I think we are still in the same place.

[LucyStoner]

I take a lot of precautions to prevent fires in my home. Always have, and even more so now that I live with two firefighters. I probably won't "need" fire services. So maybe I shouldn't have to pay my share into it. And then my spouse and child can stay home instead of risk their own safety while some unfortunate person who also decided not to pay watches their house burn. Hopefully from the outside.

 

And I'll just pretend there's no risk to me if the houses around me go up. Because other people's problems can't impact my little bubble, right?

While we use privatized fire services as an extreme example, I do think there could come a day. Many of the same people who are repealing the ACA have advanced ideas about privately run roads and in at least one state, the highway system is leased to a private company. It seems medieval but ideologically it is in step with the philosophy that non-users shouldn't have to pay for others. We've heard these arguments on this board. Those values do not reflect the world I want to live in at all but they are very popular in some circles. Edited January 14, 2017 by LucyStoner

[Carrie12345]

I should have said "paying very little".

I never found $1200/mo. to be "very little" while writing the check. YMMV.

[SereneHome]

Also, I am a huge HUGE believer in personal responsibility.  And yes, that includes health.  But here is the thing - even doctors and the entire medical community can't agree for longer than 5 minutes about what is healthy and what is not.

 

Also, genetics play much bigger role in our health than how many Twinkies we eat.  I can not be the only one who has stories upon stories where people's live style and their health left others shocked.  Young healthy adults dying of heart attack.  Or old person who has been smoking and drinking and  lived until 90.

 

Sure, if you could say with 100% certainty what particular life style will keep you healthy and what will make you sick - may be, just may be we could "tax" people.  But otherwise??  

[Barb_]

Surely they're going to work through this with time and create alternatives. I know that's not satisfying or reassuring, but I just don't think there's public sentiment in ANY party about cutting health care access for kids. I think everyone agrees the popular changes will be brought back.

I agree that public sentiment is against cutting benefits for kids. I disagree that public sentiment matters to those in charge. Maybe that's why we can't agree. Part of us trusts the replace aspect while the others are convinced everything will screech to a halt at repeal.

[LucyStoner]

And [part of the reason that charges are high for others is that we cover some of the cost of the charity program.

There are children in my state from states that didn't expand Medicaid getting lifesaving treatment here. Part of that is that my state is the regional provider for a certain level of care. Part of that is that our government and non-profit sector choose to fund those resources. Many families living in our state short term get services paid for via our state even though after treatment they go back to their home states that neither fund the infrastructure or cover the cost of the care furnished to their residents. And I do not begrudge them that for a second. But I do bristle when people trash my state while relying on us to do right by their sickest and most vulnerable residents.

Edited January 14, 2017 by LucyStoner

[FaithManor]

If you end up paying more for insurance than the insurance pays for your medical bills, you are one of the lucky ones.

 

And any of us can go from being lucky to being unlucky in the seconds it takes to be hit by 

a drunk driver, to deliver a premature baby, or to be diagnosed with a serious medical condition, all of which are largely beyond our control.

 

 

 

Exactly says the woman who along with her son nearly died from a stupid driver texting at 60+mph on a country road while driving.

 

And we could take care of our citizenry if we didn't pay for corporate welfare nor things like billion dollar naval destroyers that the navy doesn't even want but some corrupt senator stuck on a house appropriations bill because the company that will get the contract is a big donor to his campaign. Seriously, we actually have the money. Our darn congress squanders it like quarters given to children in a candy shop.

Edited January 14, 2017 by FaithManor

[SereneHome]

I never found $1200/mo. to be "very little" while writing the check. YMMV.

 

Here is what I mean.

If you pay almost $15K a year - someone who is making $30-$45K/yr  is not paying that much.  So his costs are being paid by someone like you.  Bc his actual medical costs are not any cheaper than yours.

 

If we had XXX number of people who couldn't afford insurance pre ACA and many claim that they weren't getting medical care, but now they are still not paying as much as you, but are getting that medical care - who is paying the difference?

 

That's what I mean by many people "paying very little".  They are paying very little compared to actual costs.  And someone has to fill in for the difference. 

Edited January 14, 2017 by SereneHome

[Carol in Cal.]

I don't disagree with this.  But where does anyone even claim to start addressing it?  Getting rid of the ACA won't fix these problems.  ACA was a flawed in so many ways.  But at least somebody finally did *something*.  It was a start.  I don't see that going back to the previous status quo will change anything.

Rescinding the ACA won't send us back to the status quo anyway.

Because insurance companies would have to redesign their policies, and state insurance departments would have to approve them.  That is a fairly time-consuming process.  I imagine that it could be expedited if a roll back occurred, but I cannot imagine a scenario under which it would be even remotely seamless, and that is quite dangerous.

[LucyStoner]

It definitely varies. I was surprised Benjamin wouldn't qualify for it since we now have eight people on a single income, but we didn't. The social worker is going to see if I can make a case for just *me and the baby* being counted, which would make him eligible. Otherwise all early intervention and ongoing therapy for him is out of pocket for us, and no insurance available right now to us would cover it either. They all exempt that sort of thing beul d a few token visits per year and he needs it weekly, at a minimum.

 

At present we are just budgeting in the 7-10k a year it will cost and hoping for the best.

You live in a state that didn't expand Medicaid. If you qualify for charity care, then you likely would qualify for SCHIP in a state that expanded Medicaid. Here it would cover your kids and possibly some of your maternity coverage in a family of 8 at an income up to about 123K. The max cost for that for a family would be $40 a month. Or maybe $60.

[Barb_]

Some of it. We paid two other childbirths with that hospital - those together left us with 40k in medical debt. We actually had insurance during both those pregnancies too. But it's a religious hospital and maintains a non-profit status mostly through endowment, and they have to award charitable deductions in various percentages of their operating expenses to maintain that status. This is the first time we have qualified in any service, because we have so many people on one income.

 

But please everyone, do feel free to keep picking us apart because we don't agree with you on how awesome and helpful the ACA is while we are stuck on the phone and writing massive checks to manage all this. I'm in the middle of *living* the financial differences and have had an ACA plan and dropped it. The numbers for our family are incredibly clear and we are not lying or inflating them - bargaining as individuals based on our own circumstances serves us much better even without CHM. We keep them on for catastrophe, but they have paid nothing yet and our bills are still a fraction of what they would have been with our old plan. We aren't taking advantage of anything but the programs already in place - we aren't retroactively applying for the ACA, hiding income, misrepresenting our own situation, or seeking any discount based on anything but us as a family.

 

CHM has done nothing at this point, this is all work we do prior to submitting an incident.

I don't think anyone is arguing the ACA is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I know your emotions are raw and it may sound that way through your filter right now. Most of us who are arguing against the repeal of the current ACA provisions would love to se a more wide-ranging safety net put into its place. I just don't believe that it will happen. I feel like there is a contingent of congress people gleefully pulling the tiny little throw rug out from under those who need it out of retribution for it having been pushing into place to begin with.

[Barb_]

Rescinding the ACA won't send us back to the status quo anyway.

Because insurance companies would have to redesign their policies, and state insurance departments would have to approve them. That is a fairly time-consuming process. I imagine that it could be expedited if a roll back occurred, but I cannot imagine a scenario under which it would be even remotely seamless, and that is quite dangerous.

That is exactly right. It wouldn't be remotely seamless. It would be dangerous. And I suspect that is exactly what is going to happen

[Frances]

Yup, it's absolutely horrible.

And I don't trust them with my medical decisions. Because they really, really don't care. Which is horrible and a crying shame.

So are you planning on never using Medicare when you become eligible because the government is involved?

[Frances]

No, I prefer to have the choice to NOT have insurance if I don't want it, and

be able to negotiate with each healthcare professional on what they charge.

But the negotiating likely only works when only a very small percentage of people are doing it and most people are covered by health insurance plans that reimburse at a higher rate.

[HomeAgain]

Just to say, I live in a land of socialized health care, and the government doesn't dictate my health care - my doctor and I decide my health care. Obviously that's within a context of resources which are not endless...but so far I've made it through 4.5 decades without the government ever saying 'No!' to what my doctor and I decide.

 

I absolutely do not understand the US system of health, but just wanted to correct the idea that the government controls our health care choices under this system, in my country at least.

 

Oh, sweetie.  We're American.  We can screw up any good idea that works for the rest of the world.

 

[regentrude]

Here is what I mean.

If you pay almost $15K a year - someone who is making $30-$45K/yr  is not paying that much.  So his costs are being paid by someone like you.  Bc his actual medical costs are not any cheaper than yours.

...

 

That's what I mean by many people "paying very little".  They are paying very little compared to actual costs.  And someone has to fill in for the difference. 

 

What is "the actual cost"? It is insurance. Not their medical cost. 

 

They may not even use in medical costs what ("little") they pay into the insurance because they might happen to be healthy.

Another person, even one who pays a higher insurance premium, may incur medical cost that are astronomically higher than anything he ever pays in premiums in a lifetime.

 

Almost nobody pays "the actual cost". Most people pay significantly more into the insurance than they ever need in cost. Which is how insurance works. That way, the people with the half million bill for cancer treatment can be treated.

[Χά�ων]

No, I prefer to have the choice to NOT have insurance if I don't want it, and

be able to negotiate with each healthcare professional on what they charge.

Sweety, when you are in a car accident and need life saving medical treatment you will not be in any position negotiate charges.

[FaithManor]

Sweety, when you are in a car accident and need life saving medical treatment you will not be in any position negotiate charges.

This. You do not negotiate squat. The trauma team does what it does, the ambulance or helicopter company charges what it charges, there is no negotiation. The end. Unless of course you hope to be conscious and able to refuse medical care because you cannot afford it. But if you are at risk of head injury or any type of injury that can interfere with the ability to process properly, then in many regions this is considered an altered mental status in which case you are not legally competent to refuse medical care so they will still what they are going to do and bill you for it. No negotiating.

 

Frankly while bleeding internally and waiting for my CT scan, I was glad to NOT have to negotiate with hospital billing when ds had a collapsed lung, internal bleed, crushed femur, and major concussion in critical need of surgery.

Edited January 14, 2017 by FaithManor

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Just to say, I live in a land of socialized health care, and the government doesn't dictate my health care - my doctor and I decide my health care. Obviously that's within a context of resources which are not endless...but so far I've made it through 4.5 decades without the government ever saying 'No!' to what my doctor and I decide.

 

I absolutely do not understand the US system of health, but just wanted to correct the idea that the government controls our health care choices under this system, in my country at least.

Communist ITT!

:)

[Guest]

Who negotiates in the middle of trauma? It's always with billing after the fact for things like this. Doesn't change that it can be done and saves tons of money though. We negotiate a pediatrician on the front end, but all billing and finances for the emergency stuff we have handled once medical treatment has been given. That's pretty typical in my experience.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I disagree with the idea that anyone is going through too much to bear others' differing viewpoints on health insurance coverage. As Mergath said, many of us are going through too much, all the time. Many of us have a lot to lose, including the lives of our children.

 

And that's the point.

 

Every American family is at the mercy of the incoming powers that be, from election to election (especially in these massive turnover seasons). It makes me tired, y'all. SO tired.

 

The absolute fatigue of wondering what our healthcare system will even be, and whether my son will have his lifesaving care or not, every time we have a change in power, is seriously and honestly enough to make me want to move to a different country. Some other place where, even if the system is not perfect, the people know what to expect and are not jerked around from moment to moment.

 

I just want some stability, said a billion American citizens.

 

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Sweety, when you are in a car accident and need life saving medical treatment you will not be in any position negotiate charges.

I can't imagine needing chemo and being expected to shop around for the best price.

Oh look! They are doing radiation treatments BOGO!

Edited January 14, 2017 by ChocolateReignRemix

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Who negotiates in the middle of trauma? It's always with billing after the fact for things like this. Doesn't change that it can be done and saves tons of money though. We negotiate a pediatrician on the front end, but all billing and finances for the emergency stuff we have handled once medical treatment has been given. That's pretty typical in my experience.

It sounds like an odd negotiation when you already have received the service. What is your leverage?

[Barb_]

Who negotiates in the middle of trauma? It's always with billing after the fact for things like this. Doesn't change that it can be done and saves tons of money though. We negotiate a pediatrician on the front end, but all billing and finances for the emergency stuff we have handled once medical treatment has been given. That's pretty typical in my experience.

Billing departments do not have the ability to negotiate every single thing with every single patient. Do you have any idea how much time and how full time employee's salaries that would take? Those are costs that would be rolled right back into your bills.

 

You've been successful in negotiating down your bills because they've been very high and if you declare bankruptcy they get nothing. hospitals can afford to write off large portions of this bill or that bill as long as they make up for it in volume.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Barb_

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I disagree with the idea that anyone is going through too much to bear others' differing viewpoints on health insurance coverage. As Mergath said, many of us are going through too much, all the time. Many of us have a lot to lose, including the lives of our children.

 

And that's the point.

 

Every American family is at the mercy of the incoming powers that be, from election to election (especially in these massive turnover seasons). It makes me tired, y'all. SO tired.

 

The absolute fatigue of wondering what our healthcare system will even be, and whether my son will have his lifesaving care or not, every time we have a change in power, is seriously and honestly enough to make me want to move to a different country. Some other place where, even if the system is not perfect, the people know what to expect and are not jerked around from moment to moment.

 

I just want some stability, said a billion American citizens.

+1

 

We have won world wars and put a man on the moon, so **** me if we couldn't puzzle this out if we really wanted to do so.

 

And I say this as someone with access to amazing health insurance and no serious health conditions. We also pay a healthy tax bill and would have no issues doing so if the money went to help fellow citizens rather than corporations.

Edited January 14, 2017 by ChocolateReignRemix

[Barb_]

Quoted instead of editing

Edited January 14, 2017 by Barb_

[Lang Syne Boardie]

This. You do not negotiate squat.

 

Frankly while bleeding internally and waiting for my CT scan, I was glad to NOT have to negotiate with hospital billing when ds had a collapsed lung, internal bleed, crushed femur, and major concussion in critical need of surgery.

 

Um, yeah.

 

When we spent the month in PICU with my son, we had a sense of the dollar bills flying out the window, but it wasn't even a conversation until he was moved to the hematology/oncology ward. And it wasn't real until we saw the million dollar (literal) bill, and then we wondered if he would have been saved if we hadn't had our excellent, Big Name insurance. The thing that made me wonder is how many times a doctor or anesthesiologist or nurse or therapist asked the question, "What's your insurance again?" and THEN told me what the treatment plan would be...

 

and what would I have said to the hematologist on call? Wait, don't get the top surgeon in the nation to do something about that vein, I'm not sure we can afford that?

 

Good Lord. There's someone in the thread who wants to write her own antibiotics prescriptions without a medical degree. And now we want to negotiate with specialists in the traumatic moments in the ER. Those are not the places where reform begins. Not that there's no need for reform, and constant reevaluation of best practices, but we are NOT doctors.

 

I'm not a person who sees doctors as gods. We rarely go, other than to manage chronic conditions and get yearly checkups and such. And I've argued with doctors and asked for rationales in non-emergent settings, of course. But I don't say, "Here, just rubber stamp my dx and prescription, please," or "I'm not sure you are saving my child's life in the most cost-effective way."

[FaithManor]

I disagree with the idea that anyone is going through too much to bear others' differing viewpoints on health insurance coverage. As Mergath said, many of us are going through too much, all the time. Many of us have a lot to lose, including the lives of our children.

 

And that's the point.

 

Every American family is at the mercy of the incoming powers that be, from election to election (especially in these massive turnover seasons). It makes me tired, y'all. SO tired.

 

The absolute fatigue of wondering what our healthcare system will even be, and whether my son will have his lifesaving care or not, every time we have a change in power, is seriously and honestly enough to make me want to move to a different country. Some other place where, even if the system is not perfect, the people know what to expect and are not jerked around from moment to moment.

 

I just want some stability, said a billion American citizens.

Absolutely this! And yes we are looking at other countries.

 

My sister will soon be a French Citizen and as such, my mom will be eligible to move there as her dependent. She will need to pay a small monthly amount into the healthcare system as an American expat and out of pocket for some things but it is a very manageable amount, but the quality of care, access to care, quality of life will be so much better. Sis and her husband are happy to have her. I think it is likely she will go once her husband passes away.

[Guest]

Billing departments do not have the ability to negotiate every single thing with every single patient. Do you have any idea how much time and how full time employee's salaries that would take? Those are costs that would be rolled right back into your bills.

 

You've been successful in negotiating down your bills because they've been very high and if you declare bankruptcy they get nothing. hospitals can afford to write off large portions of this bill or that bill as long as they make up for it in volume.

Barb, I've been cash paying medical for two years straight, and paying significant portions of it out of pocket for multiple years prior when we had catastrophic and an HSA. This isn't some isolated thing and I don't know why you think it makes sense to tell *me* what my own experience has been. We have done this for routine care, ER, smaller items and larger too.

 

Now some real cost saving legislation I'd love to see? Requiring providers to publish basic price lists and services before being able to total and charge a bill.

[FaithManor]

We have friends whose baby was born at 33 weeks, quite viable, but needed some help. Their baby girl was not treated, handed to them to die, because they were uninsured. They begged to be put on a layment plan, promised to sell their house to pay the bill, call charities, anything, just please assist the baby.

 

Nope. No insurance, bill will likely never be paid because it will be overwhelmingly large, so just no.

 

It very much affects whether or not your or your loved one live. I prefer a system in which doctors and hospitals are not required to make such ghastly decisions.

 

And I can't blame the hospital? How do they keep their doors open if they keep uninsured and non able to pay patients alive with expensive technology and drugs? They'd be bankrupt and no one woukd have care after they closed their doors.

 

Makes me nauseated thinking about it.

[Barb_]

Barb, I've been cash paying medical for two years straight, and paying significant portions of it out of pocket for multiple years prior when we had catastrophic and an HSA. This isn't some isolated thing and I don't know why you think it makes sense to tell *me* what my own experience has been. We have done this for routine care, ER, smaller items and larger too.

 

Now some real cost saving legislation I'd love to see? Requiring providers to publish basic price lists and services before being able to total and charge a bill.

My dh has been a hospital CFO since 1996 and I will tell you that someone is absorbing the costs they are writing off on your behalf. If everyone felt the need to negotiate their healthcare charges, discounts would totally vanish.

[FaithManor]

My dh has been a hospital CFO since 1996 and I will tell you that someone is absorbing the costs they are writing off on your behalf. If everyone felt the need to negotiate their healthcare charges, discounts would totally vanish.

Exactly. When Beaumont hospital negotiated the balance of the bill my mom could not pay for her husband's cancer treatment, the amount that came off that bill was tacked on somewhere else because the hospital has to stay solvent. It is not a matter of the hospital being able to afford not getting fully reimbursed, but that they spread it out over other accounts.

[regentrude]

We have friends whose baby was born at 33 weeks, quite viable, but needed some help. Their baby girl was not treated, handed to them to die, because they were uninsured. They begged to be put on a layment plan, promised to sell their house to pay the bill, call charities, anything, just please assist the baby.

 

Nope. No insurance, bill will likely never be paid because it will be overwhelmingly large, so just no.

 

It very much affects whether or not your or your loved one live. I prefer a system in which doctors and hospitals are not required to make such ghastly decisions.

 

And I can't blame the hospital? How do they keep their doors open if they keep uninsured and non able to pay patients alive with expensive technology and drugs? They'd be bankrupt and no one woukd have care after they closed their doors.

 

Makes me nauseated thinking about it.

 

This is a shameful disgrace for such a rich country.

 

ETA: And something I cannot possibly explain to my friends back home. But then, there are a lot of things I can't explain to them these days...

Edited January 14, 2017 by regentrude

[8circles]

My dh has been a hospital CFO since 1996 and I will tell you that someone is absorbing the costs they are writing off on your behalf. If everyone felt the need to negotiate their healthcare charges, discounts would totally vanish.

 

This.

 

The ignorance and naivete in this thread is astonishing. 

 

The ACA had many flaws, in part because many parts were stripped out to get it to pass and some states chose not to expand medicare (as has been discussed ad nauseum here).

 

But Good Lord Almighty - should we just scrap all insurance (except the holy grail of catastophic care) and sink or swim on our own?  Oh, and get rid of doctors needing to prescribe medications because we all are smart enough to do it ourselves while we're at it? That sounds like a good plan?

 

NO.  Not a good plan.  Not a smart plan.  An idiotic plan that is the epitomy of "let them eat cake" and selfishness.  We're better than that, aren't we?

[Barb_]

This.

 

The ignorance and naivete in this thread is astonishing.

 

The ACA had many flaws, in part because many parts were stripped out to get it to pass and some states chose not to expand medicare (as has been discussed ad nauseum here).

 

But Good Lord Almighty - should we just scrap all insurance (except the holy grail of catastophic care) and sink or swim on our own? Oh, and get rid of doctors needing to prescribe medications because we all are smart enough to do it ourselves while we're at it? That sounds like a good plan?

 

NO. Not a good plan. Not a smart plan. An idiotic plan that is the epitomy of "let them eat cake" and selfishness. We're better than that, aren't we?

It's good though! I'm a little shocked at the misconceptions, but it's good to talk it through and begin to clear them up.

[FaithManor]

 

But the thing was, I was afraid they might deny him care because of our deductible if we couldn't prove up front that we could pay it so one of my most vivid memories was of begging the state trooper, the two medics working on me, and the two firefighters to not leave the scene without my purse because I needed my health insurance and credit cards to make sure ds would be taken care of properly. I could not understand with my head injury that car insurance was going to kick in and we would not pay nor that at that point no one was going to let ds die because I could not prove we could pay the deductible. I even told them to let me die if they were worried about ability to pay just please save my son. All of the first responders were so kind and compassionate constantly reassuring me that ds was going to receive the very highest level of care no worries about the bill.

 

My frantic worry about money while ds lay their unconscious looking like he wasn't going to make it from the perspective that I was not going to survive my injuries and would not be there to advocate for ds while dh was en route to the hospital figures heavily into my PTSD.

 

It staggers the imagination that this an acceptable health care delivery system for a developed nation. It is even more staggering that the system is defended or that some people are comfortable with preventing access to the crappy system we have by those who cannot afford.

 

I don't get it. I cannot imagine defending such a system, fearing change, wanting to abolish good things like pre existing condition clauses and such. My brain doesn't go there.

Edited January 14, 2017 by FaithManor

[Guest]

It's good though! I'm a little shocked at the misconceptions, but it's good to talk it through and begin to clear them up.

But nothing gets cleared up. It is always the same people beating the same drum. I do not think we'll see a solution to this issue in my lifetime.

[AmandaVT]

You live in a state that didn't expand Medicaid. If you qualify for charity care, then you likely would qualify for SCHIP in a state that expanded Medicaid. Here it would cover your kids and possibly some of your maternity coverage in a family of 8 at an income up to about 123K. The max cost for that for a family would be $40 a month. Or maybe $60.

 

Yup, here, you could make up to $10,802 a month and qualify for Dr. Dynasaur for the kids with a family of 8.

[Barb_]

But nothing gets cleared up. It is always the same people beating the same drum. I do not think we'll see a solution to this issue in my lifetime.

I have to believe people some people believe what they do because they don't have the full picture. Those are the people I'm hoping this thread reaches. Sometimes minds are changed. Not right away maybe, but a missing piece of the puzzle is filed away for later and something makes it click into place. Maybe next time they go to the polls a little more informed.

 

I have to believe I'm making a small difference or I may just stop functioning. I'm having a tough time holding out hope for us. I have to keep trying.

[Carol in Cal.]

So are you planning on never using Medicare when you become eligible because the government is involved?

If you would like to put this in a nonsnarky way, I'll be glad to address it.

[goldberry]

I take a lot of precautions to prevent fires in my home.  Always have, and even more so now that I live with two firefighters.  I probably won't "need" fire services.  So maybe I shouldn't have to pay my share into it.  And then my spouse and child can stay home instead of risk their own safety while some unfortunate person who also decided not to pay watches their house burn.  Hopefully from the outside.

 

And I'll just pretend there's no risk to me if the houses around me go up.  Because other people's problems can't impact my little bubble, right?

 

This is actually a very apt comparison.  There was a story awhile back about a rural fire department that covered a certain area.  If you were outside the area, you could opt in to coverage by paying for it.  Someone outside the area who decided not to pay for coverage had their house catch on fire.  They were FURIOUS that the fire department didn't try to save their house.  And the media went ballistic on the fire department who was obviously just a bunch of greedy heartless bastards. So much for the concept of individual choice and responsibility...  Seems like we are all about "choice" but not so much about "responsibility".

 

So this is what I say regarding people like scrapbook who think they shouldn't have to get insurance if they don't want it: we should only allow that in our country if we are prepared to let that "individual responsibility" play out all the way to the end.  As it is now, we are not prepared as a society to turn people away at the emergency room if they can't pay, or leave them on the roadside if they cannot afford an ambulance. Personally, I don't want to live in a society like that, even if I had the choice. But if everyone gets the service when they really need it, then everyone needs to share the cost.  And the more everyone shares the cost, the better service everyone can get. 

Edited January 14, 2017 by goldberry

[FaithManor]

Realistic. Since the majority of health problems are directly linked to lifestyle and dietary choices, it's something we have to acknowledge. Or we're saying we want the freedom to do ANYTHING, eat ANYTHING, etc., with no consequences.

 

I don't think freedom can occur without personal responsibility. So yes, if you want increased benefits, you have to decide what freedoms you're willing to give up.

 

You are profoundly wrong. Do your research. Genetics had FAR more to do with it other than say things like smoking which is why there are a lot od people that can eat twinkies and never exercise their whole lives and not get diabetes or have a heart attack.

[8circles]

But the thing was, I was afraid they might deny him care because of our deductible if we couldn't prove up front that we could pay it so one of my most vivid memories was of begging the state trooper, the two medics working on me, and the two firefighters to not leave the scene without my purse because I needed my health insurance and credit cards to make sure ds would be taken care of properly. I could not understand with my head injury that car insurance was going to kick in and we would not pay nor that at that point no one was going to let ds die because I could not prove we could pay the deductible. I even told them to let me die if they were worried about ability to pay just please save my son. All of the first responders were so kind and compassionate constantly reassuring me that ds was going to receive the very highest level of care no worries about the bill.

 

My frantic worry about money while ds lay their unconscious looking like he wasn't going to make it from the perspective that I was not going to survive my injuries and would not be there to advocate for ds while dh was en route to the hospital figures heavily into my PTSD.

 

It staggers the imagination that this an acceptable health care delivery system for a developed nation. It is even more staggering that the system is defended or that some people are comfortable with preventing access to the crappy system we have by those who cannot afford.

 

I don't get it. I cannot imagine defending such a system, fearing change, wanting to abolish good things like pre existing condition clauses and such. My brain doesn't go there.

 

Yes.  And this whole idea that we need to each take care of ourselves/be responsible or we live in a nanny state/irresponsible babies who can't hack it in the real world - is just absurd.  It's like a toddler who wants to do everything "by myself"! and stamps his foot.

 

I would love to not have to worry about all the minutae involved in getting our healthcare paid for.  I'm more than happy to increase our tax burden in order to provide for basic healthcare for ALL and streamline it in the process.

[Barb_]

Yeah I drive my cars until they fall apart because I hate the haggling process so much. I drive myself crazy with cost-benefit analysis any time I need to buy an appliance. I can't imagine having to shop around and haggle over every medical procedure I didn't want in the first place. I'd probably die of analysis paralysis first.

[Carol in Cal.]

Yes.  And this whole idea that we need to each take care of ourselves/be responsible or we live in a nanny state/irresponsible babies who can't hack it in the real world - is just absurd.  It's like a toddler who wants to do everything "by myself"! and stamps his foot.

 

I would love to not have to worry about all the minutae involved in getting our healthcare paid for.  I'm more than happy to increase our tax burden in order to provide for basic healthcare for ALL and streamline it in the process.

And really, when you are in extremis, are you in any shape to negotiate?  It's ridiculous.

[Slartibartfast]

We have friends whose baby was born at 33 weeks, quite viable, but needed some help. Their baby girl was not treated, handed to them to die, because they were uninsured. They begged to be put on a layment plan, promised to sell their house to pay the bill, call charities, anything, just please assist the baby.

 

Nope. No insurance, bill will likely never be paid because it will be overwhelmingly large, so just no.

 

It very much affects whether or not your or your loved one live. I prefer a system in which doctors and hospitals are not required to make such ghastly decisions.

 

And I can't blame the hospital? How do they keep their doors open if they keep uninsured and non able to pay patients alive with expensive technology and drugs? They'd be bankrupt and no one woukd have care after they closed their doors.

 

Makes me nauseated thinking about it.

 

What? Where did this happen?

[8circles]

And really, when you are in extremis, are you in any shape to negotiate?  It's ridiculous.

 

& We haven't even had any *really* serious issues.  But when my kid needed stitches or another broke his foot, I'm supposed to shop around?  Or are the doctor's offices going to be like fast-food restaurants with the prices up on the wall and we choose McDonalds or Burger King? Maybe we'll get coupons in the mail even?  It's absurd.

[Barb_]

It would be great if there was more transparency in healthcare pricing while we still need to pay attention to out of pocket costs. But transparency isn't the answer to our healthcare woes; single payer universal coverage is the answer.

[Guest]

We have friends whose baby was born at 33 weeks, quite viable, but needed some help. Their baby girl was not treated, handed to them to die, because they were uninsured. They begged to be put on a layment plan, promised to sell their house to pay the bill, call charities, anything, just please assist the baby.

 

Nope. No insurance, bill will likely never be paid because it will be overwhelmingly large, so just no.

 

It very much affects whether or not your or your loved one live. I prefer a system in which doctors and hospitals are not required to make such ghastly decisions.

 

And I can't blame the hospital? How do they keep their doors open if they keep uninsured and non able to pay patients alive with expensive technology and drugs? They'd be bankrupt and no one woukd have care after they closed their doors.

 

Makes me nauseated thinking about it.

Sorry, I have to call shinanigans. No hospital would let a child die at 33 weeks with zero care. This story would be front page of every news outlet.