Helping mediate sibling/parent drama

[rwilk]

I have a bit of an unusual family dynamic.  I am 10 years older than my siblings, and grew up in very different circumstances---we lived in an attic for my early childhood, there was severe mental illness in my parents, and we just didn't have a lot.  They weren't able to cope with taking care of my sisters when they were born, so I took on a lot of parenting responsiblity--everything from going to parent teacher conferences at 16 to determining when the 2 year old's asthma was bad enough to need a hospital trip.  I worked through high school, paid for college on a scholarship with additional work.

 

In high school, I decided I couldn't leave my siblings in that environment when I went to school.  I told my parents they had to get their lives together---go to counseling, get on (and stay on) meds, and take more responsiblity for managing the kids--or I would file for custody of them.  They agreed, and my siblings grew up very differently than I did.  I'm thrilled that they are better and stable, and have been for years.  

 

The hiccup is that I am still expected to help mediate disagreements/conflict between them, but I have trouble understanding their dynamic/relatioship.The big drama now is that sister (24) wants to get married to guy.  My family seems to really hate him, and I don't love him, but I'm not marrying him.  He's nice to her, just totally terrible about working. Here's where the different dynamic comes in.  I was married at 22, but I was completely independent, financially and otherwise.  My sister is 24, but my parents pay all her bills, bought her a car, and even pay for her entertainment. As far as I can tell, she has literally no expenses and no idea how to manage her own finances. She doesn't have anything in her name.  She works as a temp, and is about to get fired because she keeps missing work for stupid reasons.  Guy lives at home, and also doesn't pay any of his own bills. 

 

My parents have basically said they won't pay for the wedding until my sister shows some responsibility by getting a stable job and taking on some of her own bills. And showing she has a plan to support themselves without help. Sister thinks parents are being unreasonable because both she and guy have jobs, and they have a plan (buy a house apparently?).  Both my parents and my sister have asked me to talk to the other side.

 

I'm honestly baffled by all of this.  I can't imagine being supported (while working>!) well into my 20s, and I kinda feel like if she wants to get married, she needs to do it on her own.  Or meet their demands. That's the cost of their financial support---they have the right to set whatever limits they want to set.  I suggested as much, and sister said I was just bitter that they didn't support me in the same way and that I was a hypocrite because I got married younger than she is. She also said I can't talk about work since I don't work anymore. (I still work part-time from home, have held this job for 9 years, and have never missed a day of this job, including a day 3 days after my son was born. It's true that my respnsiblities are different than hers, but I work, I care for my kids, and I don't ask for help from anyone but my spouse.) I'm worried the bitter thing is clouding my judgment.  I don't think I am, but it IS annoying that both my siblings had college totally paid for, additional years after college paid for, and a car paid for.  Things were different for my parents when I was in college, but it's still annoying. 

 

I'd also love to not be involved in this nonsense at all.  But that's not an option. Parents cannot remain stable without this sort of emotional support.

 

Here are my proposed suggestions:

 

To Parents:  Stop supporting her as much.  Help her make a budget, expect her to stick to it, and contribute to her own bills as much as she can. Separate the financial responsiblity issues from the guy issues, but feel free to refuse to pay for a wedding if you don't think they are ready.  

 

To Sister: Learn to set a budget, make budget back up plans, and find more stable employment. Start by looking at your income and expenses over a 6th month or so time frame. And start building some credit already! If you want to get married, do it, but figure out how to do it without help.

 

Does that all seem reasonable? Am I off base? Is there something I'm missing?

 

(Please don't quote---I might erase later)

[Scarlett]

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

And you are a good sister/daughter to help them all so much.

[Rosie_0801]

You can't win here.  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

They're all going to do whatever they are going to do.

 

 

If it's a matter of keeping your parents stable, I guess agreeing that they're allowed to do whatever they want with their own money is about all you can do.

[FaithManor]

You were the parentified child growing up so this is difficult. But in order for sis and your parents to grow into a healthier relationship, you need to back away from this role and enforce a healthy boundary.

 

Tell them no. Tell them you are not going to be drawn into their drama. Remind them you are a sibling not her mother, and then refuse to give an opinion. Wash, rinse, repeat. If she gets married, say congratulations with a smile. If not, offer a hug.

[maize]

Your recommendations are entirely reasonable. I'm worried about you being the one to make them though--you really shouldn't be caught in the middle like this.

 

Is there any chance that your parents and sister would go to a family counselor together? I just can't see how them putting all this pressure on you to resolve family conflict and make everyone happy could possibly be healthy. I understand about your parents needing help--seems you've been parenting them for a very long time and they seem to accept that. I'm worried though about the dynamic with your sister, her expectations of both your parents and you are completely out of line. Do you think she is mentally healthy and stable? There's such a strong genetic component to mental health problems that I would be surprised if none of the children inherited any of your parents' issues.

 

And...wow. You've done amazing things coming from a super hard background. You're clearly a very capable and resilient woman!

[rwilk]

Your recommendations are entirely reasonable. I'm worried about you being the one to make them though--you really shouldn't be caught in the middle like this.

 

Is there any chance that your parents and sister would go to a family counselor together? I just can't see how them putting all this pressure on you to resolve family conflict and make everyone happy could possibly be healthy. I understand about your parents needing help--seems you've been parenting them for a very long time and they seem to accept that. I'm worried though about the dynamic with your sister, her expectations of both your parents and you are completely out of line. Do you think she is mentally healthy and stable? There's such a strong genetic component to mental health problems that I would be surprised if none of the children inherited any of your parents' issues.

 

And...wow. You've done amazing things coming from a super hard background. You're clearly a very capable and resilient woman!

 

I doubt they'd all go to counseling. Out of everyone, I'm the only one who has been consistent about therapy/psych treatment (probably because I'm terrified of making things tough for my own kids).  My parents mostly are doing well, but they stopped for a bit when my sisters went to college. They've been working back to their old baseline.  Sister has mental illness as well and is on the autism spectrum. I dropped the ball a bit on that one---I didn't realize that was a thing to watch for, so I didn't really push for her to get treatment as a child for anything beyond what her pediatrician recommended at yearly visits. In retrospect, I should have encouraged actual psych treatment.

 

I'd love to get to take a step back, but at least on the parents end, I can't.  I actually have paperwork to take over power of attorney if things get bad for them again and I don't have the energy/desire to have to step up and take care of everyone again. I also really want them to be able to have a relationship with my kids, and I can only let that happen when they are stable. 

[gardenmom5]

sounds reasonable.  they may not realize just how much they are *enabling* her by supporting her.  if they pay her bills - why should she?

sister may not realize just how easy she has it - and that it is making her life harder, not easier.

 

you could start by suggesting she pay rent.  or they stop paying one of her bills. and a few months later, stop paying another one - they need to stop.  if she defaults - hopefully it will be a learning experience.  for some people, that's what it takes. 

Edited January 9, 2017 by gardenmom5

[maize]

Autism spectrum is a big confounding factor; there is a very wide range of functioning among adults with autism but it is possible that she won't ever really be able to function fully as an independent adult. Our next door neighbors have a son with Aspergers/high functioning autism and he is not likely to ever live on his own.

 

Marriage to a person who also sounds not fully functional as an independent adult at this time does not sound wise at all, but...trying to prevent that is not likely to get you anywhere.

[Janeway]

 

 

 

I don't think you should mediate this. Your parents shouldn't be paying her bills at all, or for a wedding. But this is between them, no matter how messed up it is. And you should not step in to fix/enable any problems they have in the future. It's their circus and their train wreck. You need to disengage.

[Anne in CA]

As an older sibling who had way too much responsibility for her younger siblings... You are entitled to do what you think is right. Period. Are you prejudiced? Probably. But no parents anywhere owe a kid a wedding. Especially not when they are fully supporting that child already. Family obligation does not extend to paying for weddings. It extends to kidney donation and bone marrow donation, but not to weddings. The fact that she feels entitled to this is not good.

 

She is old enough to own her own problems, even with mental health problems. She may never be a functional adult. That is not for you to sacrifice sleep over. Although you will. You deserve some peace. Don't let them convince you to take sides. Sister can pay for her own wedding if she needs one. Parents need to be held responsible for creating the situation they created.

[TammyS]

Here's what I would suggest:

 

To parents: take the money that you have been spending on supporting my grown sister and pay for some professional emotional support.  I was happy to provide help for a long time, but you are stable now and have extra money, clearly, that you are spending on the wrong thing.  You need to support ME now, by paying for support for yourselves.  Because I am done with this job.  If you choose not to do that, fine, but I am done with this job.

 

To sister: :smilielol5: :smilielol5: :smilielol5: :smilielol5:  Girl, please.  Neither you nor your boyfriend are ready to be fully responsible for a cat, much less a marriage.

[kiwik]

Don't blame yourself for not picking up the autism. You were a child yourself and many adults don't pick it up in their kids. It does sound like a diasaster waiting to happen but you will only end up being the fall guy. Suggest an impartial mediator and explain that it isn't sonething you should be involved in. Good luck.

[kiwik]

Don't blame yourself for not picking up the autism. You were a child yourself and many adults don't pick it up in their kids. It does sound like a diasaster waiting to happen but you will only end up being the fall guy. Suggest an impartial mediator and explain that it isn't sonething you should be involved in. Good luck.

 

And give them birth control for a wedding present.

[eternalsummer]

Here's what I would suggest:

 

To parents: take the money that you have been spending on supporting my grown sister and pay for some professional emotional support.  I was happy to provide help for a long time, but you are stable now and have extra money, clearly, that you are spending on the wrong thing.  You need to support ME now, by paying for support for yourselves.  Because I am done with this job.  If you choose not to do that, fine, but I am done with this job.

 

To sister: :smilielol5: :smilielol5: :smilielol5: :smilielol5:  Girl, please.  Neither you nor your boyfriend are ready to be fully responsible for a cat, much less a marriage.

 

we pretty much never agree, but I totally agree here.  OP, that is a sign

[rwilk]

Thanks all for the advice. I'm hearing pretty clearly that I need to find a way to disengage and let someone else deal with it. Easier said than done, but it sounds pretty clear that it's the best move.  I might try to get my parents' psych to help facilitate finding a good family therapist for them all/encouraging the use of one---I'm in regular contact with her anyway as part of their treatment. 

 

And funny you should mention taking care of a cat, Tammy.  Sister just got one (WHYYYYY) and is struggling to adapt to caring for something else. The cat is safe and well-cared for, but Sister hates the responsibility.

[bettyandbob]

Neither side is going to agree with you.

 

Neither side is going to let you step aside. Your childhood has set up to continue a poor family dynamic and to feel responsible for it. You might need counseling for yourself to work through this. 

 

One rather flip response that came to me was to tell sister to go ahead and live with boyfriend. As in move in together and out of their respective parents' homes. Prove that they actually can get a lease and make consistent rent payments and maintain a household budget WITHOUT asking for supplements from parents. 

 

Without living together, they could go through the process of looking for a home to buy or rent and find out if they qualify for anything, how much money of their own (not parents) they must have up front, etc. 

 

This reminds me that recently my state started requiring a personal economics class to graduate high school. It was a waste of my dd's time, However, it would have been awesome if the requirement had been in place before ds graduated. He's had some knocks figuring crap out. He's 22 and graduating college this year. He hasn't gotten "entertainment" money from us in a while. That's a concept I really don't understand. 

[gardenmom5]

Don't blame yourself for not picking up the autism. You were a child yourself and many adults don't pick it up in their kids. It does sound like a diasaster waiting to happen but you will only end up being the fall guy. Suggest an impartial mediator and explain that it isn't sonething you should be involved in. Good luck.

 

this.  my son's PED was denying anything was wrong with him. later, joined a local asd support group - and the entire large practice where this ped was located was generally held in very poor esteem due to the entire practice dismissing asd/other developmental disorders in all but the most affected cases.  (you know, the ones where the most dense individual on the planet can see something is amiss.)

 

  dudeling was diagnosed by  a large medical center dept that specializes in developmental disorders by a large team.

 

Here's what I would suggest:

 

To parents: take the money that you have been spending on supporting my grown sister and pay for some professional emotional support.  I was happy to provide help for a long time, but you are stable now and have extra money, clearly, that you are spending on the wrong thing.  You need to support ME now, by paying for support for yourselves.  Because I am done with this job.  If you choose not to do that, fine, but I am done with this job.

 

To sister: :smilielol5: :smilielol5: :smilielol5: :smilielol5:  Girl, please.  Neither you nor your boyfriend are ready to be fully responsible for a cat, much less a marriage.

 

yep.

 

for a brief time - I worked in an addiction recovery clinic.   one movie that had for the patients to watch was 28 days.  it's about addiction recovery.  (and relationships) one patient is told when he gets out, to get a plant.  if he can keep it alive (yeah, a PLANT) - then he can get a dog or a cat, and if he can keep it alive, then he can be ready for a relationship.    the last scene is the crazy guy with the dead plant trying to return it where he bought it claiming it was their fault it died, while he was pulling  a small bulldog on a leash.  the protagonist shows up (by chance) and he falls apart into tears becasue he finally realizes how dysfunctional he is.

 

I like the idea of making them go apartment shopping on their own dime - and seeing what they can afford, and who might be willing to rent for them.  (they don't have to actually rent/live together at this stage.)

then they need to figure out how much stuff costs - go grocery shopping, and see what they'll have to eat.  or how much utilities are (if not included in rent).  transportation, etc. 

that might help to serve as motivation to do what she needs to do to stay employed.

[kroe1]

Not your monkey, even if both parties ask you to intervene.

 

And, as my father always said, "He who hath the gold rules." In other words, it is only your parent's decision how they spend their money.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Even if you are the parent in this situation, I think it's time to let go.  They need to figure this out without you.

 

 

[TranquilMind]

You are very reasonable.

[catz]

You are totally reasonable.  I also think it's reasonable for you to say to both parties "you figure it out".

 

I do think your sister is being an entitled brat.  She has a college education too?   She should "adult up" if she wants to get married.  Having a wedding paid for is a gift, not an entitlement.  Your parents should set a d day for her moving out.  And if at that point they decide to get married, I would be supportive and happy for her emotionally but I wouldn't be helping financially or being involved in day to day life with them.  She is acting like a child, so she is being treated like a child.  When she acts like an adult, the relationship can and will take on a more mature tone.  Maybe your sister just needs to distance herself for a while and let things cool off.

 

I don't think you seem overly bitter about the situation. 

 

ETA - are all your siblings adults now?  I think it's a bit ridiculous to have this much drama over adult children.  Sister just needs to fly the nest now and she will learn to fly eventually.  I don't think you need to own this for adults.  I'd maybe look at services you can point them to if necessary, but I would not look to get overly invested while you're raising your own young children and working on yourself in therapy.

Edited January 9, 2017 by WoolySocks

[catz]

Ok - I see your sister might have special needs.  The thing is this is sounding like some sort of co-dependent relationship that isn't working for anyone.  Did you sister graduate from college?  Did she have access to special accomodations?  If she did graduate and did not have accommodations, she should in theory be able to get her ducks in a row and if she does have a good relationship with the BF, maybe they'll figure it out.  If not, maybe she should be looking at group home situations that specifically would teach life skills.  I know we have a local college specifically for autistic young adults that is all about life skills, coaching, job placement, etc. It does seem like maybe your parents don't have it in them to baby step her through the process and I don't think you should be doing it either with 2 very young children and your own mental health to think about. 

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[maize]

Did you sister graduate from college? Did she have access to special accomodations? If she did graduate and did not have accommodations, she should in theory be able to get her ducks in a row

This is not at all an assumption that can be made when considering a person with autism and mental illness. College is a very structured sort of experience in which expectations are very clearly delineated and quite limited.

 

Regular adult life and responsibilities are so much more complex and require much more in terms of decision making and just generally understanding and coping with stress and complexities.

Edited January 9, 2017 by maize

[maize]

Thanks all for the advice. I'm hearing pretty clearly that I need to find a way to disengage and let someone else deal with it. Easier said than done, but it sounds pretty clear that it's the best move. I might try to get my parents' psych to help facilitate finding a good family therapist for them all/encouraging the use of one---I'm in regular contact with her anyway as part of their treatment.

 

And funny you should mention taking care of a cat, Tammy. Sister just got one (WHYYYYY) and is struggling to adapt to caring for something else. The cat is safe and well-cared for, but Sister hates the responsibility.

Enlisting the psych sounds like a good idea, a good family therapist could make a real difference and it really would be best to get yourself out from between your parents and sister.

[catz]

This is not at all an assumption that can be made when considering a person with autism and mental illness. College is a very structured sort of experience in which expectations are very clearly delineated and quite limited.

 

Regular adult life and responsibilities are so much more complex and require much more in terms of decision making and just generally understanding and coping with stress and complexities.

 

I totally agree and get this.  I just meant I think it is safe to say if she did not graduate from college and/or limped along through the whole experience or ever successfully have a job, a trial of adult life would probably not go well.  If she did participate in college successfully living away from home, moving out entirely may be worth a trial that may or may not be successful.  I do know aspies in their late 20's with their own apartments and jobs that over years developed a system to take care of finances/self care/etc.  And I know others that just cannot live alone.  My kids are not dx-ed aspie, but are 2E/asynchronous developers and we've definitely had issues with mental illness, including myself.

 

I just don't think the OP or the parents are in a good position to help long term or are necessarily going to be appreciated trying to step her through the process.  If she's mad and bitter, it might be time to get out of the business of parenting someone who does not want to be parented and find some other resources for her.  I think trying to get a family counselor involved is a great idea.

Edited January 9, 2017 by WoolySocks

[HS Mom in NC]

 I'm assuming that because you posted this on a chat board with the general public, not to a board with experts in mental illness and autism, that you want the kind of advice that would be generally applicable to most people. In other words, if a detailed and experienced understanding of mental illness and autism is required by the person giving their thoughts on the matter, then this isn't the right forum. 

It's time to treat all of the adults like adults. Parents and sister alike.

1. Parents need to announce that paying for her will end by the end of the month and follow through in spite of tears, accusations, or whatever flack comes their way from her.  She'll be far more motivated to get herself to work regularly and stay employed once this happens. 

 

2. They need to set a deadline for her to move out of their house (something like 2 or 3 months at most.)   She's a 24 year old  adult with work experience after all. Once she has to work regularly to support herself she'll find steady employment in a man much more important. If you set up vague criteria like, "contribute to her own bills as much as she can" you're setting yourself up for frustration.  She'll find a reason why she can't contribute to her own bills as much as you think she can. They need to not be her landlords, so don't think making her pay them rent will work out-they already have a hard time telling her no and holding her accountable.

 

3. As to the wedding, I suggest in your situation what I suggest in everyone's situation.  If the parents decide they're going to contribute to it (whether or not they like the guy) then they should decide between themselves the exact dollar amount they're willing to contribute and give her only that in one lump sum and she's free to use it wisely or stupidly. They need to be at peace with her using it stupidly before they give it to her. Keep that number on the frugal end.  Expensive weddings are for the wealthy-no one with mommy and daddy supporting them at 24 is wealthy. I don't think people are entitled to their parents contributing to their weddings. It's nice if you can and we're going to contribute to each of our daughters' weddings, but it's not required. I don't think parents should tie certain behaviors to earning wedding money. Give it with no strings attached or don't give it at all.

My older two are engaged to be married at the end of this year and next year.  My husband and I decided between ourselves exactly how much we were willing to contribute to their weddings (the same amount for each.) We wrote them each a check and they deposited it into their own separate wedding accounts. We told them that was everything we were contributing to their marriage related activities.  They could do with it as they please. It's everything we're contributing to their ceremony, reception, honeymoon, setting up house and savings.  They can divide that sum between those categories any way they see fit and skip any or all the unnecessary categories (everything except a legally recognized officiant signing the government issued paperwork) if they like. 

I'm happy to go to whatever they want me to go to. I'm happy with whatever plans they have wherever they have them.  Oldest is eloping for the very small ceremony and honeymoon but the reception will be local. Middle is considering a local ceremony with all the relatives on both sides.  Those things are perfectly fine with me.  I don't think it's morally right of me to have an opinion about how someone else should arrange their marriage related activities.

[rwilk]

It's all just a strange situation. Sister did graduate, but struggled in school and can't find a job in her field. She actually doesn't live at home, but my parents pay her expenses. She has a roommate she's lived with for 6 years who helps her manage a lot of day to day stuff.

 

I think my parents struggle with a happy medium. They weren't able to provide appropriate support for me during childhood, so they went overboard with support for kid 2. My even younger sister was spared a lot of this over/under parenting because she lived with DH and I for most of her teen years. We required her to contribute in age appropriate ways and she seems mostly stable adult. ..lives alone, supports herself, likes her job.

 

Another thought I had was suggesting that struggling sister seek voc rehab services. I think some of her job troubles are related to autism and inability to read social stuff. For example, she once went to work in a low cut clubbing dress (she does not go dancing or wear that regularly). It was bad enough her boss sent her to hr to discuss it. I asked her why she wore it, and she seemed totally baffled that dresses weren't all the same level of appropriate.

[maize]

Referral to vocational rehabilitation services sounds like an excellent idea.

 

I don't think you are going to be able to manage your sister's life for her, but at the same time she may need a lot of support to learn to manage herself, and possibly continuing support throughout life. She needs at a minimum a good psychiatrist, personal therapist, and access to community resources such as vocational rehab. She may qualify for and need to rely on social security disability income. Or she may develop the real world skills she needs in order to hold down a job and support herself. Supporting her indefinitely should not be on your parents' shoulders.

 

If you contact voc rehab they should have people who can point you in the right direction resource wise.

[maize]

Does she have an official autism diagnosis?

[rwilk]

She has an official asbergers dx. She didn't get any official accommodations in school, but she functioned with help of a close friend. She had one who was with her from elementary through high school, and another in college/now.

[LucyStoner]

Best thing I ever did was to step back and stop playing the peacemaker/mediator between my parents and my siblings. I just refused to get involved in their relationships and it was better not just for me but for them as well. They needed to learn to sort their shit out themselves and stop burdening me with it. And I needed to stop burdening myself with it. There's mental health issues coming and going in my family so I get that the roles we play in dysfunctional family dynamics can get pretty entrenched. It's hard to set boundaries and step back but in the long run you are doing no one any favors by continuing to parent them.

Edited January 10, 2017 by LucyStoner

[kroe1]

Personally, I think her medical diagnosis is irrelevant to whether or not her parents have to buy her a wedding. That is totally their decision and no one else's. It would not matter whether she had diabetes, obesity, schizophrenia, cancer, or anything else.

 

If an adult can graduate college, in my opinion, he should be able to hold down some kind of job. Inappropriate dress does not stop one from working online, where someone has to wear uniforms, or jobs where people work alone. In regards to job etiquette learning, one could do that with a few Google searches and a little time.

 

Bottom line, the real issue is the OP's involvement in the drama. She must decide whether she wants to continue the game or move on. Sometimes breaking free is not really wanted.

[bettyandbob]

 

 

If an adult can graduate college, in my opinion, he should be able to hold down some kind of job. Inappropriate dress does not stop one from working online, where someone has to wear uniforms, or jobs where people work alone. In regards to job etiquette learning, one could do that with a few Google searches and a little time.

 

 

I don't think this issue is at the core of the OP's problem, but this statement is just wrong.

 

The skills one needs to simply attain a degree are not the skills needed to attain employment and remain employed. People with certain disabilities need to actually be taught employment skills. Such people often do not know they are missing such skills because they do not know they exist. This is especially true of "rules" unwritten which we all think are obvious.

 

Explain why a person naturally knows that a tight minidress is not in the same as a knee length tailored dress. Understanding this concept is years of building social information that typical persons build through childhood and adolescence. If one doesn't understand this category sorting they won't get variations in business attire.

 

A lot of brilliant people cannot figure out expectations of the typical work environment due to disability. Occasionally they manage to find a place they can navigate successfully.