S/O shift in teen work trends...

[Prairie~Phlox]

Kids with jobs are more likely to smoke and do drugs. I remember that study a few years back, although I cannot put my finger on it right now. In the same study, kids who played after school sports were less likely to smoke and do drugs, (Yes, I am sure everyone knows at least one anecdotal exception.)

 

I never let my kids work, although they managed to find a way anyway. DD16 started getting paid in acting and dancing jobs from about age 10, I think. She never made a ton at it, but she smiled with each paycheck. She has a gazillion volunteer hours. But, she started her own business about 2 years ago. She recently partnered with a large computer company because of it. DS36 got his first job about age 14 by just "helping out a friend's dad". I assumed it was a one or two weekend deal. Several years later, DS was still working for the guy. After letting DS have his own hard earned money, I learned better. Now I keep their money and dish it out as I see fit.

This is a bunch of BS. I remember you posting this before as well. I don't see how it relates at all.

[catz]

Well, I think it's great if you want to let your 8-12 year old pet sit or whatever for money.  But the parents I know that have kids who do that end up being the reminders and doing a lot of leg work themselves.  If you were 100% responsible that's great.  I have a friend that let her kid start advertising for pet sitting/dog walking in an urban area.  It was like taking on a part time job for her and she regretted it and felt they could have used their time better. I let a parent proclaimed "super responsible" 12 year old cat sit for us once while we were on vacation and never again.  I had cat litter and cat food from one end of my house to the other and she said she never saw the cats the entire time we were gone. 

 

Anyway - I really think it depends on how kids are using their time.  An academically minded kid involved in a number of activities is going to have a hard time holding a regular paying job.  I think it's possible to learn work ethic, people and team skills, and money management in a number of ways.  If I had a teen that had a lot of free time and was not super focused, I would push them to get a job pretty hard.  It's actually not super easy for young teens to get jobs in my area either.  There are a bunch of college campuses in my area, so many coffee shop, fast food, etc kind of jobs are filled by college students. 

 

I did work in high school some.  I thought my seasonal jobs were the best - quick earning, good life lessons, low life impact, working with a lot of students, etc.  I had a job at a McDonald's for about a year.  I guess it did reinforce my plan to get through college but I had always planned on college.  That was a horrible job with a bunch of not super awesome people. 

Edited October 27, 2016 by WoolySocks

[DawnM]

Oldest son has Autism Spectrum Disorder and we will be thrilled if he gets a job.

 

Middle son just got his first job offer yesterday and we don't know when he will start.

 

Youngest is 12 but he has the best work ethic of any of them.  

 

All 3 have been boy scouts though, and learned work ethic there with a lot of volunteering.

[Donna]

My kids started getting paid for small music gigs when they were very young...just a bit of money here and there (I think at about 7, 10, and 12yo). These gigs grew in number and frequency as they got older.

 

My oldest did not work in high school because he wrestled year round and it took all his free time. He is now working two jobs and going to college. This was not required for him as we offered to pay for his college but he wanted to do it this way and is happy. He is currently learning a trade (concrete and masonry) with one of his jobs, delivering pizza, and going to college taking 12-15 hours a semester and doing well.

 

My middle ds has been doing music gigs through high school and when he graduated last spring, asked to take a year to see what he does with his music. He has been touring/gigging and is making good money plus seeing/experiencing the world. He will continue when he starts college in the fall where he's planning to do (mostly) online college for sound engineering.

 

Dd "works" most weekends with music gigs and has two students she teaches weekly. Homeschooling is the only option for her as she travels frequently for gigs usually long weekends but sometimes for a week or more at a time. She saves most of her pay but keeps out a bit for "fun" spending such as buying her own clothes, makeup, or things she saves up a long time to buy such as her computer or instrument. She also uses her music to volunteer for charities she believes in. She has recently begun learning more of the "business" aspect of music by helping with her own scheduling and is producing a CD involving other young musicians for charity. She is learning a lot in so many areas many related specifically to music but some could translate to other areas such... leadership skills, planning, coordinating work with different people, communication skills, work ethic, importance of punctuality, etc...

[Crimson Wife]

Honestly, you've posted this more than once before without citation.

 

I just found the citations and the studies were done in the '90's, back when a LOT more teens smoked. Hardly any teens smoke today (it's 13% in my state now vs. 36% in '97). So I doubt they're all that relevant now.

 

[KungFuPanda]

I think a lot of it is hard wiring. Some kids are natural savers and some can't stand to have money. They HAVE to spend it. You can teach money management skills, but often the problem isn't knowing the right thing to do, it's impulse control.

 

Sometimes having it hard is just HARD and you don't get extra benefits from the struggle. I did everything the hard way. Jobs as a teen, paid my way through college, the whole working poor bit. I was a mature, well-adjusted kid. My college-aged daughter, who has "had things handed to her," never had to work during the school year, and doesn't have to work while in college may be even more mature than I was. I'd love to take credit, but she just came that way.

 

College is more expensive now. The academic demands of my daughter's suburban high school FAR exceeded those of my rural one. I have nieces in my old school district. The difference in what was required of these girls is staggering. It's like living in different countries. Some of them had jobs in high school. It didn't give them any edge over my daughter who was studying or participating in extracurriculars instead.

 

I had the fast food jobs in high school. They were a way to earn money, but I already HAD a work ethic, organizational skills, and an ability to deal with people. I didn't learn any of that on the job.

[Prairie~Phlox]

After watching a number of family members' children who never worked in high school and STILL have trouble getting and keeping jobs, I'm glad my kids all worked. I'm watching one young man who has never worked an hourly wage job. He just doesn't get that sometimes you take the job because you need to eat and pay rent. Am I proud of dd who can spend part of the day changing oil? Yep! It pays her bills. Yeah, she's applying better places, but was just offered a management job at the ski area. My kids can all run heavy equipment. I had a Scout dad upset because his boys couldn't get on with the county in the summer. Well, your boys don't know how to drive a triple deck mower, a loader, etc. Mine do. No, it's not their first pick of jobs, but it keeps the lights on. Ds showed up for his first day at the county job, with his flagging cert already done. That was the job. If he's gong to be useful, he has to have the skills. He rapidly figured out that it was hot, dirty work, and found at job indoors, in the air conditioning, fixing computers. But he knows how to do the other, too.

This is great. My daughter was a cashier supervisor this spring/summer at the greenhouse that she worked at & my son proved himself valuable in the greenhouse & then was moved to maintenance, he was the only teen that knew how to use sockets & power tools.

[bettyandbob]

After watching a number of family members' children who never worked in high school and STILL have trouble getting and keeping jobs, I'm glad my kids all worked. I'm watching one young man who has never worked an hourly wage job. He just doesn't get that sometimes you take the job because you need to eat and pay rent. Am I proud of dd who can spend part of the day changing oil? Yep! It pays her bills. Yeah, she's applying better places, but was just offered a management job at the ski area. My kids can all run heavy equipment. I had a Scout dad upset because his boys couldn't get on with the county in the summer. Well, your boys don't know how to drive a triple deck mower, a loader, etc. Mine do. No, it's not their first pick of jobs, but it keeps the lights on. Ds showed up for his first day at the county job, with his flagging cert already done. That was the job. If he's gong to be useful, he has to have the skills. He rapidly figured out that it was hot, dirty work, and found at job indoors, in the air conditioning, fixing computers. But he knows how to do the other, too.

That's the other issue--jobs often lead to better jobs. Being older and not having had a job can make some employers push your application aside to look at similarly qualified applicants who have worked.

 

I know someone who kept teaching swimming while finishing his computer science degree at a local university. His first job related to his degree was the result of a connection he made through a parent of a child in group lessons. My area is actually a good place to network like that.

 

My oldest didn't get his first job until he was twenty. He started looking at 18. He'd do a month or so of solidly working on applications and then stop for a bit and get back in the cycle again. He went to a lot of interviews. No special skills and no experience was a big problem.

 

I've seen some entitlement attitudes among college students and college graduates who think that since they have more education or a degree they should have a certain level of job. You may still have to start at the bottom and climb your way through levels. The degree can make climbing faster and the degree may mean that you don't plateau, but you still have to go through the levels. If a person starts working a little at younger ages that might help them avoid some of those attitude pitfalls.

[teachermom2834]

My oldest ds didn't work in high school because of sports, academics , and extracurriculars. However, immediately upon graduation he took on a full time (plus overtime) job in a warehouse. It was hard and dirty but he did great. I was unsure if work ethic but it is definitely there. Not working before 18 didn't hurt him.

 

Next kid got a job upon 16th birthday. This kid is less motivated in general and not as interested in following authority. I was worried but he has also done great! He works a lot of hours and it is good for him to stay busy as he doesn't have all the extras first ds did.

 

They are both frugal with their money. Younger boy is becoming less so because he is building up quite a savings and has very few expenses. He is making some sillier purchases lately but still nothing major and he is working very hard to not ever spend it. Neither kid ever had much spending money so having a little is new to them. They appreciate not needing approval for every purchase.

[ktgrok]

My parents always told us our job was school. They provided for most teen type stuff, but only as their budget would allow, which was a lot by some standards and hardly anything by others.

 

I babysat at 12, then started fast food at 16. I'm confident that if my grades suffered, my parents would have encouraged me to cut back/quit work.

 

Same here. School was the #1 priority. We could have a job IF we kept grades up. I babysat some starting at 12 or 13, then got a job at the library at 14 or 15..probably 15 I imagine. I worked there 12 hours a week, three 4 hour shifts, one of which was the weekend. It was close enough to ride my bike there. 

 

In college I worked 10-12 hours a week, first at the campus escort service (not hookers - we walked in groups of two with radios and flashlights and escorted students around campus at night to keep them safe), and later at a phone survey place that did research surveys. Had my grades dropped too much my parents would have wanted me to quit. 

[ktgrok]

Oh, forgot to say DS does have a very very part time job, as an admin on a server. It's been perfect for him. He does it from home, he has to do some coding, some people skills stuff handling complaints, has to deal with a boss that can be a bit unpredictable, etc. 

[SKL]

I have a niece who was never encouraged to do much of anything involving initiative.  She did well in school and she liked to bake at home.  Now age 23 and still working toward her Bachelor's, she has an internship of some sort.

 

This girl has always had an entitled air about her, and still does.  To hear her talk about money people should be giving her so that she can get an education and make more money ....

 

Like many kids, she has parents who make excuses for her rather than hold her accountable for her situation.

 

But, I really don't know if this is more her responding to their parenting or them responding to her in-born personality.

 

I definitely push one of my kids more.  She is more naturally hands-on, needs more academic practice to keep up, and doesn't resist guidance usually.  Getting her sister to do the same work would be 10x more work for me, and since said sister doesn't really form "habits," it would not have much long-term benefit.  So I pick my battles differently with each of my kids.

 

Now my harder working kid takes more initiative outside of the house.  Is it because I've made her work more at home, or because it just suits her personality better?  She has much more confidence in new situations.  Years from now, I could see her going up to 20 people a day and asking for a job.  My other kid, not so much.  It will be interesting to see how it plays out.  Ultimately I think they will both put their talents to use.

[magnificent_baby]

My kids are not quite at that age yet, but I will be highly encouraging them to work. DH and I have held a job since we were about 14. We both purchased our own first cars and insurance and I think that's a very important life skill. Of course academics and activities are very high on the priority list, but I am hoping they will be able to work as well, even if it's just a shift or 2 each week. At minimum, they will not be sitting in front of the TV everyday or meandering the town with their friends with too much idle time. IME of friends and family, those are the kids that end up addicted to drugs. 

 

That said, I don't think it's nearly as easy to get a job now as a teen as it was 20-25 years ago. Perhaps companies don't want the liability of employing minors?? Perhaps work ethic is lower now? 

 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

Edited for clarity and brain farts.

Zooming out and addressing some assumptions here, most Americans have little to no savings, they have 30 year mortgages rather than 15 year mortgages, they have more house than they can afford, and many have college debt for degrees that it was obvious weren't going to pay off, and they have ongoing credit card debt.   So in general, Americans are bad at managing money.  We have be careful and think about what we really mean by good parental role models.  I would consider all those things poor role models.

I would also point out that earning your own money is not necessarily equivalent to learning to manage money, just like learning to read isn't necessarily the equivalent to being a life long learner.  It can be that way, but it can also be impulsive spending and being broke all the time even though you have an income.

As stated upthread, impulse control is central to people who intuit some better money management skills, but what do you do for the impulsive kid? Do you shrug your shoulders and say, "Nature is what it is" and wash your hands of it?  Or do you make an effort to explicitly teach and nurture some skills and hope it sticks?  I have opposite adult kids-the restrained kid and the impulsive kid.  They've been taught some skills and what they do with those skills is on them.  Teaching them was on me. 

Another way to teach some money management is to give them a clothing/allowance/toiletries fund that covers the basics and leave it up to them to supplement it with work like babysitting or a part time job.  Once my girls got curvy (12 or 13 ish) and I had bought them new wardrobes for their new figures, we sat down figured out about what we could afford to spend on a wardrobe annually.  We  figured out (meaning the family sat down together in front of a whiteboard) about what we spent on a pair of shoes, a pair of jeans, a bra, a shirt, a coat, a sweatshirt, (that's reviewing how averages work) and then we figured out about how many of each of those things we typically buy (that's reviewing multiplication.) That was their clothing budget.  We did the same for our usual toiletry/cosmetics purchases and what we give as an allowance.  We divided each category by 24 (twice a month X 12 months.) Then we totaled all the bi monthly totals.  That was what we gave them on the first and the 16th of the month.  We bought them wallets with envelopes in them and they labeled them: allowance, clothing, cosmetics.  We gave them cash for each category and let them make their own decisions.  If they wanted to spend more in one category, they had to move it out of another. 

After 6 months of that going fairly well we got them accounts and debit cards linked to our account that couldn't be overdrawn.  If there we insufficient funds the card would be denied at the store.  We deposited the funds into their accounts on the 1st and 16th.  It went every well and we set up a debit card to our account for each of them when they started cc that we paid for which was to be used for gas, car repairs, tuition, school supplies, and groceries when I called and had them pick something up on the way home.  If they wanted to use it for anything else, they had to ask first.  It was used for some work clothes a few times and for some expenses related to oldest's business.

One kid abused it for unauthorized purchases that she was going to pay us back for but didn't pay it back immediately.  Then she had to have permission every single time she used it for a while because those are consequences. 

Once they became adults they didn't get those clothing and spending allowances anymore because their academics and job training leave room for working. 

My kids have experience helping with the meal planning, shopping and cooking on a regular basis.  My middle who doesn't live at home must text me twice a week to tell me where the best deal on food items is.  

Edited October 28, 2016 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[Scarlett]

 

In college I worked 10-12 hours a week, first at the campus escort service (not hookers - we walked in groups of two with radios and flashlights and escorted students around campus at night to keep them safe),

 

 

 

LOL....

[Scarlett]

My son has a job.  He works 2 hours a day in a body shop. It has been the best thing for him.  He loves it.  He hates school and I tell him he has to stay caught up on school or no work. 

 

I was the same way......I loved my silly jobs and I hated school.  Also my teen jobs made me realize how much it would suck to do those jobs the rest of my life.  He is already expressing the same sentiment.....he loves having the job at this stage, but knows he doesn't want to shine up wheels and take out trash forever. 

 

Our deal is he has to save half of what he makes.  He has his own debit account and savings account.  I am tied to both because he is a minor.  There is no overdraft allowance....and he doesn't have any access to the savings account.  He has worked very hard on school his entire life and made great grades.  So now he is spreading his wings a little and this job has made him feel so good about himself.  It probably isn't for every kid or every family but it has been great for us.

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

 

In college I worked 10-12 hours a week, first at the campus escort service (not hookers - we walked in groups of two with radios and flashlights and escorted students around campus at night to keep them safe), and later at a phone survey place that did research surveys. Had my grades dropped too much my parents would have wanted me to quit. 

 

Hooking would have paid more... :lol:

 

A dorm neighbor of mine worked for a phone s*x line.  What was particularly comical is she was from a very traditional Indian family and they would have had a COW.  She must have made decent money because she was the only one I knew with a car!

[rainbowmama]

I worked in a flower shop during high school in the early '00s, and I had a good experience. However, I don't think it affected my financial skills or work ethic.

[Bluegoat]

I don't know that working a paid job is a huge issue with learning to handle money, though it can be one way to do it. 

 

I do think it has benefits in terms of offering kids a kind of feeling of self-sufficiency or contribution, something I think that is largely missing for young people in our culture.  I don't think school has the same effect, even if it is seen as one's job.  Schooling is something that someone supports kids to do - it's a benefit they accept from society, or parents.

 

Of couse someone will say "I/my spouse/my kids turned out feeling competant and independant without a paid job" but really, that is IMO not all that useful a comment - of course many people turn out just fine whether they have jobs as teens or not.  It isn't like this sort of thing is the only factor. 

 

But as a society wide thing, I think the fact that teens in many ways function as very dependent children is not ideal for their development at that point in life, and since jobs and the ability to be independent are so important in our concept of adulthood, it's an important way we can mitigate that. 

[Tap]

I answered phones for a real estate company when I was in middle school and the staff needed to be gone at the same time. It was on call and only for one summer. It wasn't really a job, I think I only answered the phone a couple of times. 

 

I did not really work until I got my first job at 16 or so.  It was seasonal work at a MusicLand for Christmas. Around the same time, I did work study at the college, assisting the art director. 

 

I didn't have younger siblings and generally didn't like little kids, so I did a small amount of babysitting around middle school age but didn't really like it.  The one time I had  a set, summer time babysitting job, it was pretty obvious the kids were being neglected by the single dad so it was more that I was prepared to handle and then he stiffed me on a months pay, so I quit.  I ended up bringing the kids to my own home and feeding them and caring for them there, because his place was gross and had little food.

 

 

 

My son got his first job at 15/16 at a learning center. He still works there 6 years later (it is 1 of 3 jobs). He pretty much works his own hours as a grader, and they are very, very flexible to accommodate his college and other commitments.  He didn't go looking for it, it landed in his lap. It is just over minimum wage, even after all these years, but he likes that it is low stress and just a bit of extra money towards his student loans.

 

My 18dd got her first job this summer. She was 17 and got asked if she wanted a job. The manager was ringing us out and liked dds gumption and personality.  It is an excellent fit for her and they treat her very good. The reiterate that her school comes first all the time, and her work schedule is able to move around that.  Her starting wage is $10hr (over minimum) and her pay will top out at $25 if she stays with the company long enough.  Not a bad situation considering the business has an excellent reputation for treating their employees well and is in a lot of college towns. 

 

 

My kids keep what they make.  I pay for all their expenses through the first 2 years of college,  so work is just for spending money or savings. I didn't want them to work too young.  I wanted them to enjoy life without work for as long as possible.  They both decided to get jobs on their own and both have excellent work ethic.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

This is great. My daughter was a cashier supervisor this spring/summer at the greenhouse that she worked at & my son proved himself valuable in the greenhouse & then was moved to maintenance, he was the only teen that knew how to use sockets & power tools.

My then highschooler, in the midst of the recession, was offered a job at the appliance center in the next town over. The owner had plenty of teens and young 20s wanting a job, but my son was the first teen he had met that had actually done common repairs on an appliance and had an inkling of how they worked. He didnt take the owner up on it, as he was already lifeguarding.