poppy Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Who watched last night? Spoilers  * ** * * * * **** * *   I watched 30 minutes and had to turn it off. It was just gore and torture, torture and gore. I am not squeamish, but, I found nothing redeemable about it. I don't even know what happened after that nonsense where Rick jumped into a crowd of zombies, while hanging on one, and didn't get bit OR shot. Too dumb.  Negan doesn't make SENSE as a villain to me. I mean, the character makes sense ---- there are men like that. But: Why do people follow him? The governor was ruthless but made you FEEL like you were safe. Negan, not so much. Heck, even the leather jacket "claimed" gang leader made you feel like you were part of something. Why would he leave Rick alive and the group intact? Even if he think he has completely broken their spirits, it's just common sense to at least separate the people.  I would have loved to have Carol come in and blow it all up, like she did with the cannibals. I will probably continue watching for Carol and Morgan only.  2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Who got beat up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 It got worse. It was so dark, which is exactly what I was afraid of. I left the room with the carl scene. I mostly listened to the rest of the show. I never watch the gory parts of TWD, which was basically this entire episode. Â I think I will keep watching, because this is as bad as it gets, I predict. If this is what the show becomes all about, then I'm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Who got beat up? Major spoiler                             Abraham and Glenn were both brutally murdered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessa516 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Dang, it was worse than I thought it would be. Ugh! Â But, the writers have been saying all along that this is going to be a "reset". It certainly set the stage for new storylines to emerge. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) Who watched last night? Spoilers  * * * * * * * * * * * * *    Negan doesn't make SENSE as a villain to me. I mean, the character makes sense ---- there are men like that. But: Why do people follow him? The governor was ruthless but made you FEEL like you were safe. Negan, not so much. Heck, even the leather jacket "claimed" gang leader made you feel like you were part of something. Why would he leave Rick alive and the group intact? Even if he think he has completely broken their spirits, it's just common sense to at least separate the people.  I would have loved to have Carol come in and blow it all up, like she did with the cannibals. I will probably continue watching for Carol and Morgan only.  He is a good leader for the people who follow him because he keeps them alive. His followers fear him of course but they also know he will take care of them if he they listen. Rick's group and the other groups that give them supplies are not his followers. They are his slaves essentially. They either produce for him or they die. He doesn't offer then protection or anything because he doesn't care about them. He cares about his group, at least to the extent that they keep him alive by enforcing the poor treatment of the groups that produce for them. Also, he needs to keep them together enough because they already have an established group that can produce for him. If he breaks them up then he has to establish them in already working groups. He doesn't want that, he wants more groups to control that continue to produce for him. The did take Daryl to emphasize that if they step out of line Daryl will pay for it. This is enough to keep most groups at bay if they aren't fighters like the town from the last season. Rick's team obviously is a team of fighters so it ultimately won't keep them at bay for long. Edited October 24, 2016 by hjffkj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Â I always wanted to watch the next episode. This time, I don't even care to watch next week or maybe ever again. Negan is so much worse than the Governor. I read up on a synopsis of the comics last night. As of right now, there will be no closure to the Negan storyline that I would like to see. I wish the story had went in a direction of finding out what caused it how to find a cure, etc. Instead it is just a repeat of the whole Governor and Terminus storyline, but they upped the ante on the gore. Â I totally agree. Â Dh said the same about just not being excited to find out what happens next week anymore. :( Â Â I feel like they think they've done all they can with smashing, hacking, crushing zombies and have now moved on to human to human brutality in a way that bothers me. Â We're going to watch the next few episodes to see if we'll continue, but 2 of our kids (young adults) left the room saying that they were done with the show and I don't blame them. Â I honestly only want to see what is happening with Carol and Morgan. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 See I find the human on human brutalization fascinating because things like this is what would happen if an apocalypse of that magnitude happened, even without zombies. Groups would form. Some would survive by working together to grow food and build a community. Others would survive by conquering the peacefully functioning ones. The dynamics of different groups is fascinating because no matter how moral or immoral they are they all find a way that works for them and of course those groups will collide at some point. Â I also don't mind the visual gore at all if it works with a storyline. And I think Negan's storyline is realistic enough to justify the visuals. Now I hate useless gore just for the shock value that adds nothing to the storyline. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 He is a good leader for the people who follow him because he keeps them alive. His followers fear him of course but they also know he will take care of them if he they listen. Rick's group and the other groups that give them supplies are not his followers. They are his slaves essentially. They either produce for him or they die. He doesn't offer then protection or anything because he doesn't care about them. He cares about his group, at least to the extent that they keep him alive by enforcing the poor treatment of the groups that produce for them. Â Also, he needs to keep them together enough because they already have an established group that can produce for him. If he breaks them up then he has to establish them in already working groups. He doesn't want that, he wants more groups to control that continue to produce for him. The did take Daryl to emphasize that if they step out of line Daryl will pay for it. This is enough to keep most groups at bay if they aren't fighters like the town from the last season. Rick's team obviously is a team of fighters so it ultimately won't keep them at bay for long. I'll have to see Negan in any other vein than motormouth sociopath. The other villains we've had gave their people a veneer of safety and peace and kept brutality on the down low. Negan has scores of goons-- making roadblocks , laughing at his jokes, hanging in his every word for the chance to participate in bloodletting. That many enforcers must mean a huge number of women / children / elderly in safety somewhere . But when your leader is as clearly that gonzo- I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Who watched last night? Spoilers  * * * * * * * * * * * * *   I watched 30 minutes and had to turn it off. It was just gore and torture, torture and gore. I am not squeamish, but, I found nothing redeemable about it. I don't even know what happened after that nonsense where Rick jumped into a crowd of zombies, while hanging on one, and didn't get bit OR shot. Too dumb.  Negan doesn't make SENSE as a villain to me. I mean, the character makes sense ---- there are men like that. But: Why do people follow him? The governor was ruthless but made you FEEL like you were safe. Negan, not so much. Heck, even the leather jacket "claimed" gang leader made you feel like you were part of something. Why would he leave Rick alive and the group intact? Even if he think he has completely broken their spirits, it's just common sense to at least separate the people.  I would have loved to have Carol come in and blow it all up, like she did with the cannibals. I will probably continue watching for Carol and Morgan only.  I don't watch this show but was just thinking...isn't this really scary?  Apparently it is. Ahh. Yeah, I'm averse to torture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I spent the majority of the episode under a blanket, with my dh telling me who it was... I left the room when the whole thing with Carl started. I couldn't take it. I got hooked when my sister kept begging me to just watch the first episode. I always wanted to watch the next episode. This time, I don't even care to watch next week or maybe ever again. Negan is so much worse than the Governor. I read up on a synopsis of the comics last night. As of right now, there will be no closure to the Negan storyline that I would like to see. I wish the story had went in a direction of finding out what caused it how to find a cure, etc. Instead it is just a repeat of the whole Governor and Terminus storyline, but they upped the ante on the gore.  This is exactly, exactly what I did. Pretty much everything you said, ditto. My only hope is the saviors group seems better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I'll have to see Negan in any other vein than motormouth sociopath. The other villains we've had gave their people a veneer of safety and peace and kept brutality on the down low. Negan has scores of goons-- making roadblocks , laughing at his jokes, hanging in his every word for the chance to participate in bloodletting. That many enforcers must mean a huge number of women / children / elderly in safety somewhere . But when your leader is as clearly that gonzo- I dunno. Oh I think his only followers are his goons. And they come from 2 categiries l, those that are sociopaths as well and will do anything to make their lives better like his 2nd in command(can't remember his name) and those that have been forced into following him out of fear for their lives(like the man who stole Daryl's crossbow.) Whatever category they fall in they know they're safe as long as they obey his every word. Â They don't fight back because their are too many other goons just as equally willing to accept the safety of Negan's rules. Â I guess time will tell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I'm still kind of numb. Â I don't really do the whole "emotionally invested in tv/movies/books" deal to any greater extent than "Leave me alone while I'm watching/reading or I might yell at you", and I'm REALLY glad in this particular case, because I think I would be emotionally scarred if I did. Â It was dark. It was disgusting. It was disturbing. Â But it's all incredibly fitting for the story and, from what I hear, keeping in line with the graphic novels. Â I am interested in seeing how they convey this experience to the rest of the group. Â They've never been big on talking about the details of a tragedy, but they're going to need an explanation for the complete breaking of their main leaders. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Oddly, the hardest part for me to watch was them throwing Daryl into the van. He has never looked so helpless, defeated, and scared. Whereas Rick has and everyone else has never been as strong as those 2. To me, Negan breaking Daryl was a more pivotal point than him breaking Rick. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 I don't watch this show but was just thinking...isn't this really scary? Â Apparently it is. Ahh. Yeah, I'm averse to torture. There was a part where one man was beaten half to death - several baseball bat hits to the head - and was trying to talk, but it came out and gurgles. And Negan paused the killing to mock him and laugh for a bit. Then resumed hitting until the man's head was basically gone. And I'm thinking 'this is entertainment? People are ok with this?' I thought it was a new low. Not just typical TWD gore but really reveling in torture and horror . Â I'm not saying it should be censored , just, I am not feeling good that this is the highest rated show on TV. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 There was a part where one man was beaten half to death - several baseball bat hits to the head - and was trying to talk, but it came out and gurgles. And Negan paused the killing to mock him and laugh for a bit. Then resumed hitting until the man's head was basically gone. And I'm thinking 'this is entertainment? People are ok with this?' I thought it was a new low. Not just typical TWD gore but really reveling in torture and horror .  I'm not saying it should be censored , just, I am not feeling good that this is the highest rated show on TV.  Ewww... I could hardly get past your first sentence. I've watched people actually die. To me, this isn't entertainment to be staged for my enjoyment. Shudder. I've heard I couldn't handle this and you just confirmed it.  It is like the worse something is, the higher it is rated or the better reviews that it receives.  I learned this years ago. I remember one movie in which the lead (or maybe both, can't remember) won Oscars for their performances. Must be good right? So we rented it (back in Blockbuster days). I thought I was going to throw up. It was so dark and evil. Ugh.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 There was a part where one man was beaten half to death - several baseball bat hits to the head - and was trying to talk, but it came out and gurgles. And Negan paused the killing to mock him and laugh for a bit. Then resumed hitting until the man's head was basically gone. And I'm thinking 'this is entertainment? People are ok with this?' I thought it was a new low. Not just typical TWD gore but really reveling in torture and horror . Â I'm not saying it should be censored , just, I am not feeling good that this is the highest rated show on TV. I wouldn't say it was entertaining but it was fitting with the storyline. In a world where all hell has broken lose, there is no government, no law enforcement, and basically nothing but figuring out how to survive it is inevitable that a sociopath will take a leadership role. If they had not shown what happened and only implied what happened the impact on the main characters would not have been so deeply understood by the viewers. Â This is very different to me than say a movie like Hostel, which has a weak storyline because it was created simply to be the background of the torture and gore. TWD's gore feeds and continues the storyline. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I'm not going to watch it so tell me the important parts, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I watched last night to find out who died, but I doubt I'll watch any more. It isn't so much the gore- although I really dislike torture porn- as much as the cheap gimmicks to try to keep people watching. If a show can't keep my attention with good plot and characters, I have better things to do with my time. Â And yeah, last night was pretty bad. I had nightmares all night that I was caught in a zombie apocalypse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I'm not going to watch it so tell me the important parts, please. Negan kills Abraham first. Then he essentially taunts the group and tries to enforce his rules. Daryl freaks out and punches him before being pinned down by Negan's men. Because of what Daryl does Negan kills Glenn. Â Then Rick tells him that he's going to kill him one day. since Rick is broken yet Negan takes him on a trip in the RV. He pushes Rick out in a heavily zombie populated area and taunts Rick more while zombies are attcking him. He gets Rick back to the group and still does think he's been broken so he sets Carl up to have his arm amputated. And forces Rick to do the amputating at the threat that he'll kill everyone else aside from him if he doesn't do it. Rick struggles with this but eventually picks up the ax to do it while blubbering the a baby asking Negan to do it to him instead. Negan is satisfied that he's finally broken Rick so he doesn't make him cut Carl's arm off. Â Negan's group leaves. Rick's group collects the bodies and they head back to Alexandria. I believe Sasha and Maggie are heading to the town on the hill because Maggie still needs a dr. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Oh and they took Daryl as collateral to keep Rick's group in check. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I closed my eyes and fast forwarded a few parts. If you didn't finish watching, then you might be VERY confused. They did flashbacks to make you think people were dead that were not dead. And they did a flashforward with people alive that are not alive. I guess they got away with the flashbacks because that is what Rick was imagining (pretty much everyone being killed). Â What is happening now? Is the group going to live in Alexandria and drop off produce in a week (I think that was the timeframe)? Will they hide Judith and Carol and others that Negan has not met? I wouldn't want him to even know they exist! Â Where is Maggie headed? To the hilltop OB/GYN?? Is she taking the truck there with Sasha and Rick is taking everyone in the RV back to Alexandria where they will bury Glenn (the one that was gurgling) and Abraham? Because it was unclear to me who was in what vehicle and whether or not Sasha and Maggie are on foot or what at this point. I said long ago (at least to myself lol) that Maggie needed to be stationed where ever the doctor was. I thought it was stupid she was living so far from the dr. Given the circumstances I think being near the hilltop dr (however that would have worked, either him going to Alexandria or vice versa) would have been a priority for my family. Â I will keep watching, but not with the pressure of watching without being able to pause or fast forward lol. Â He is a good leader for the people who follow him because he keeps them alive. His followers fear him of course but they also know he will take care of them if he they listen. Rick's group and the other groups that give them supplies are not his followers. They are his slaves essentially. They either produce for him or they die. He doesn't offer then protection or anything because he doesn't care about them. He cares about his group, at least to the extent that they keep him alive by enforcing the poor treatment of the groups that produce for them.Also, he needs to keep them together enough because they already have an established group that can produce for him. If he breaks them up then he has to establish them in already working groups. He doesn't want that, he wants more groups to control that continue to produce for him. The did take Daryl to emphasize that if they step out of line Daryl will pay for it. This is enough to keep most groups at bay if they aren't fighters like the town from the last season. Rick's team obviously is a team of fighters so it ultimately won't keep them at bay for long. Â That's not quite right. At least, in the beginning. The group on the hilltop said they were given protection IIRC. That is why no one bugged them up on that hill, aside from their enormous walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Â Â That's not quite right. At least, in the beginning. The group on the hilltop said they were given protection IIRC. That is why no one bugged them up on that hill, aside from their enormous walls. You are correct. I had forgotten that. I still don't think they produce for him because of the protection. Or maybe it changes depending on the groups willingness to simply let Negan's group take control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 You are correct. I had forgotten that. I still don't think they produce for him because of the protection. Or maybe it changes depending on the groups willingness to simply let Negan's group take control. Â I think Hilltop did produce for both reasons. They were getting protection from groups like those guys that would say "claimed." None of the Hilltop people, besides maybe a handful, really knew how to defend themselves so the protection was probably appealing. The man in charge that Maggie spoke to was clearly a business man and not a fighter from what I gathered. Though, I'm not really sure how the Hilltop people would signal they needed help. Maybe Negan's guys came by more often or could see them from afar. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kari C in SC Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Who watched last night? Spoilers  * * * * * * * * * * * * *   I watched 30 minutes and had to turn it off. It was just gore and torture, torture and gore. I am not squeamish, but, I found nothing redeemable about it. I don't even know what happened after that nonsense where Rick jumped into a crowd of zombies, while hanging on one, and didn't get bit OR shot. Too dumb.  Negan doesn't make SENSE as a villain to me. I mean, the character makes sense ---- there are men like that. But: Why do people follow him? The governor was ruthless but made you FEEL like you were safe. Negan, not so much. Heck, even the leather jacket "claimed" gang leader made you feel like you were part of something. Why would he leave Rick alive and the group intact? Even if he think he has completely broken their spirits, it's just common sense to at least separate the people.  I would have loved to have Carol come in and blow it all up, like she did with the cannibals. I will probably continue watching for Carol and Morgan only.  I agree with everything you said and told my dh that I was pretty much done with the show unless he really wanted me to watch with him. It was not enjoyable to watch and I get that not all stories are. But I'm not sure I want to spent my time watching this. To each his own though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kari C in SC Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 There was a part where one man was beaten half to death - several baseball bat hits to the head - and was trying to talk, but it came out and gurgles. And Negan paused the killing to mock him and laugh for a bit. Then resumed hitting until the man's head was basically gone. And I'm thinking 'this is entertainment? People are ok with this?' I thought it was a new low. Not just typical TWD gore but really reveling in torture and horror . Â I'm not saying it should be censored , just, I am not feeling good that this is the highest rated show on TV. Yes! This is what I told my dh. So many of us waiting to watch this show and then this is it? It just doesn't set well with me. I get that all people are different and like different things. I just feel like we keep wondering where such violence comes from in real life, but we have millions of people setting their DVRs to watch this. I'm just not sure I'm onboard anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Yes, it was terrible and I had to leave the room. BUT, it was exactly what an evil dictator needs to do. He saw that Rick still had fight in him (stupid Rick and Daryl) and knew he had to break him. Now their group is under his control. Honestly, it is exactly what would happen IRL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 So after talking to dh I realized I may have missed some dialgoue with my fast forwarding and it may have been obvious to other viewers that the black and white scenes were not depicting the outcome of each character. For me it was not obvious at first, clearly lol. Â What's next? I predict a season full of Rick's group trying to make bullets to fight back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) I watched and actually expected it to be more graphic. I'm glad it wasn't, and they've shown worse imo. This was way more emotional because 1. we waited months to find out who it was 2. we're emotionally invested into these characters.  Negan needs to be evil personified. Remember, in his mind, these are retaliation killings for killing his people, they're justified to him.  I did have a problem watching that scene because it was so emotional. I kept wondering if all of those people are following Negan because he's evil or how many were just afraid and broken like Rick. After a day of thinking, I can see how someone that vile could gather a group of supporters that didn't care and in his mind those deaths are justified.  I also kept picturing the actor Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Sam and Dean's dad, having a hard time seeing him in this role.  For the show to continue to work, again imo, they have to up the danger level. The governor was charismatic bad guy with semi-decent intentions. Negan is just evil. Rick's group is ready to take out semi-evil, evil, not so much. Negan's no idiot though. He took Daryl because he knew that was his "right hand man." He broke him not by killing adults, but by threatening him with hurting his child. Now he knows what makes Rick vulnerable and he's going to manipulate that.  I imagine that Negan expects them to try and fight back because that's what other groups have done. The power dynamics are, I agree, fascinating. I was supposed to do homework after watching and it exhausted me so much, I just went to bed. Edited October 25, 2016 by elegantlion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cara4497 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I think they have fallen into the trap of having to make each death 'bigger' and more shocking than one before. This only seems to up the gore and decrease the emotion. Â The character death that struck me the most lately was on Fear the Walking the Dead. I didn't even really like this character, but his killing was seemed so mundane and pointless that it had more of impact IMO. Â 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) I'm in the same boat with everyone else: Â Yes, Negan is evil. Yes, in real life, that's how evil warlords act. Â We've read the histories, right? Â Sheesh, look at all the beheadings and horrible ways ISIS comes up with to kill people right now: killing children in front of their parents. It's very real. Â But for entertainment? Â No, no, no. Â Â Some people do enjoy watching this sort of thing for entertainment. Â There are plenty of horror-torture movies out there. Â I've never watched them. Â They're too much. Â They make me feel sick inside, as they do for most people. Â Like everyone else, I turned away during the Carl's Hand scene. Â I almost turned it completely off. Â If his hand had been chopped off, I wouldn't watch anymore. Â And, like others have said, I'm not sure I want to watch next week's episode, unless it pulls back somehow. Â I haven't read the graphic novels, but from upthread it sounds like it won't get any better, so I'm not sure how long I'll be watching. Â It's also why I have had a DVD from Netflix for Game of Thrones and haven't watched it yet. Â I got it in the mail a few months ago, but I just can't bring myself to watch any more of it. Â One of the characters has been horribly tortured in the show and I just can't watch, even though I want to know what happens in the other storylines. Â I wonder, "What sort of person am I, sitting here watching this?" Â I felt that way while watching this past WD episode: Â What sort of person am I that I'm watching this physical and psychological torture scene for fun? Â Â Edited October 25, 2016 by Garga 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertBlossom Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 (edited) I thought it was awful. I watched it on the computer, mostly just listening while I was doing things in other tabs. I couldn't watch. Dh said he is losing interest in the series too. Edited October 26, 2016 by DesertBlossom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 https://www.google.com/amp/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/10/24/13378876/the-walking-dead-season-7-premiere-recap-review-end-of-quitters-club?client=safari 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I always feel like Greg Nicotero tries to push the envelope from a special effects angle. I used to listen to him talk on The Talking Dead. Maybe sometimes that is the focus over moving the story forward. The people that died didn't surprise me. I'd already accidentally heard that there would probably be more than one death. Â Everyone is all up in arms over Negan. Yeah, he's a bad dude. But is no one upset with Rick? It felt like he could have just put his ego aside long enough to keep things from getting as bad as they did. And now that Glenn is dead, is anyone holding a grudge against Daryl? Â Maggie's voice sounded really odd in the ep, and so did some of the audio when I watched. Didn't sound like the character's voice at all and I couldn't tell if that should be dismissed because her character was upset or if the actress was having issues staying in her character's accent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 (edited) I always feel like Greg Nicotero tries to push the envelope from a special effects angle. I used to listen to him talk on The Talking Dead. Maybe sometimes that is the focus over moving the story forward. The people that died didn't surprise me. I'd already accidentally heard that there would probably be more than one death. Â Everyone is all up in arms over Negan. Yeah, he's a bad dude. But is no one upset with Rick? It felt like he could have just put his ego aside long enough to keep things from getting as bad as they did. And now that Glenn is dead, is anyone holding a grudge against Daryl? Â Maggie's voice sounded really odd in the ep, and so did some of the audio when I watched. Didn't sound like the character's voice at all and I couldn't tell if that should be dismissed because her character was upset or if the actress was having issues staying in her character's accent. Â Â Yeah, I thought the special effects guys had a little too much fun trying to make it as realistic as possible. Â Sort of like in Jurassic park where they're considering the ethical dilemma of bringing back extinct dinosaurs, "We can do this, but should we?" Â Â The special effects people could make it look entirely real...but should they have? Â Â I think a lot of people will be upset at Rick. However, they might not kick a man while he's down and say so. Â They'll just harbor their resentments quietly and try to deal with the horror of what they lived through as best they can. Â There aren't any more psychologists to go to or anti-anxiety meds, so they'll just stumble and stagger along. Â And if I was Maggie, I'd hate Daryl right now. Â I have a feeling she does. Â I mean, Negan said that if anyone interfered, he'd take out Carl's other eye. Â As soon as Daryl attacked I was thinking, "But what about Carl's eye!!?! Â Dumb Daryl!" Â Instead of Carl, Negan killed the guy closest to him, but we could see that coming a mile away as soon as Daryl stood up. Â So, yeah, Daryl knew that what he was doing would cause trouble, but did it anyway. Â It's totally selfish, and yet in that kind of situation, people do stupid, selfish things. On the one hand we can forgive because how can anyone know how they'll react in such a situation? Â It's not a ration situation. Â Daryl snapped. Â But on the other hand he totally got Glen killed. Â Well, ultimately Negan is the murderer, but Daryl knew that acting that way would spur Negan to hurt them worse. Â And with all those goons standing around, there wasn't a chance that Daryl's actions could have stopped anything, even if he'd killed someone. Â There were too many. Â So, his actions were pointless and he ought to have known it. Â It was selfish for him to attack to relieve his own fears/anxiety/adrenaline rushes. Â Â If this plays out the way it would realisitically, then Maggie will struggle with forgiving Daryl. Â She might forgive and she might not. Â The rest of them will be pretty mad a Rick, though they might hide it because they won't want to kick him while he's down. Â And I don't remember enough details to know who might have made mistakes to get them in this situation as I didn't re-watch the eps leading up to this one and can't remember all the details of what went wrong to get them surrounded by Negan's guys. Edited October 26, 2016 by Garga 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 We finally were able to watch it last night. I wish we had waited until we could've watched at least a couple of episodes at once to not leave us feeling so.......horrible. I agree with everyone above. It was overdone for me.  I also wondered why, if the brokenness of the men, and Rick in particular was what he was going for, Negan didn't kill one of the woman instead of Glen. I know we as viewers love Glen, but to get to the men in their deepest psyches, I wonder why it wasn't one of the woman. To watch helplessly while a woman was beaten like this would seem to have a worse effect than even Glen dying. I know Glen dying was in the comic though, but I still wonder why it was written that way. I haven't read the series though.  I will keep watching for a few more episodes at least. I am very interested to see what Carol's reaction is. I also don't understand how so many egos got out of check last season to let this happen in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 (edited) Interesting how everyone is honed in on Rick's responsibility. If you walk this whole situation back, it's actually Maggie who was leading when the decision to take out Negan's group was made. The deal with Hilltop was her first big leadership moment. Edited October 26, 2016 by Sassenach 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I wasn't blaming Rick for them being at that spot at that moment (didn't give it much thought). I was just thinking the way he acted after they were being held hostage was pretty stupid. I felt like at any moment he or his son could be killed so he should probably mind his Ps and Qs. And also not let anyone find the "recipe" for those bullets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I wasn't blaming Rick for them being at that spot at that moment (didn't give it much thought). I was just thinking the way he acted after they were being held hostage was pretty stupid. I felt like at any moment he or his son could be killed so he should probably mind his Ps and Qs. And also not let anyone find the "recipe" for those bullets! I agree. I haven't been a fan of him since the beginning of last season when he started acting invincible. Â And I'm tired of his stupid panic face. Â There, I said it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I agree. I haven't been a fan of him since the beginning of last season when he started acting invincible. Â And I'm tired of his stupid panic face. Â There, I said it. Haha, I feel the same way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Interesting how everyone is honed in on Rick's responsibility. If you walk this whole situation back, it's actually Maggie who was leading when the decision to take out Negan's group was made. The deal with Hilltop was her first big leadership moment.  Yeah, I really thought the whole her being "Deanna's protege" storyline would go a different direction. I am horrible at figuring out where this show will end up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Yeah, I really thought the whole her being "Deanna's protege" storyline would go a different direction. I am horrible at figuring out where this show will end up.  probably because the writers don't seem to know, either :laugh:  Serious question, how far ahead do they film before it airs? I wonder if the backlash will affect any of the season. Not sure how much has already been filmed.  Man, I wish I could buy episodes of The Talking Dead. Did anyone see it???  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 We were able to get the AMC app on our Roku. It has The Talking Dead. I don't know if it will have every ep. It also has The Walking Dead. I need to see if this stuff is going to be free past the first ep, because that would be too good to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 We were able to get the AMC app on our Roku. It has The Talking Dead. I don't know if it will have every ep. It also has The Walking Dead. I need to see if this stuff is going to be free past the first ep, because that would be too good to be true.  I *think* the first episode of the season is always on there and online free. For the other episodes you have to buy them. We do the season pass on Amazon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I *think* the first episode of the season is always on there and online free. For the other episodes you have to buy them. We do the season pass on Amazon.  Yeah, I vaguely remember first ep being free that way in the past. But back then I was using the app on my phone and didn't want to watch tv on my phone. I would be willing to pay to see The Talking Dead sometimes if AMC offers that. I know Amazon doesn't offer The Talking Dead last I checked.  I asked dh if he wanted to do the season pass but I think he said no because it's cheaper on Vudu. But for some reason he bought it via Amazon again this time. So I need to find out more about Vudu. Originally he told me that Vudu also releases the ep earlier in the evening than Amazon so I need to investigate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 In the past when we bought the season from Amazon, they charged you each week. The per episode cost was lower than not committing to the season but you didn't get charged until the episode became available. Apparently Amazon has changed how they handle seasons and now you pay up front. I just paid $42 for a season of a show I'm not sure I even want to continue watching. I can' probably get a refund, but I think dh and ds are still on the fence and hoping the storytelling will get better. Ugh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 In the past when we bought the season from Amazon, they charged you each week. The per episode cost was lower than not committing to the season but you didn't get charged until the episode became available. Apparently Amazon has changed how they handle seasons and now you pay up front. I just paid $42 for a season of a show I'm not sure I even want to continue watching. I can' probably get a refund, but I think dh and ds are still on the fence and hoping the storytelling will get better. Ugh! Â Oh weird. I was talking about a per season rate. We ran into that before... I think dh bought a full season of Mr. Robot, or at least a number of eps. Then we couldn't get past like the third ep. Not sure if we will ever finish that show. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Â Â I didn't like some of the gimmicks they used. They didn't reveal who died until pretty far in. They really overuse the show the future/then flashback trick. This was not the time. Then to add in there Rick's sepia visions of everyone getting their head hit and that was too much manipulation. Â Â Â The "everyone" clips annoyed me, but I didn't mistake them for flashbacks. Â I got the impression that he was envisioning what would happen if he didn't do as he was told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 I think the visual tricks were to mimic Rick's traumatized thoughts- a little jumbled and chaotic.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 My problem is that, starting back in last season, the writers started putting the main characters into situations that were contradictory to all the character development of the previous seasons. Â The same characters that are near starvation and dehydration on the road, without shelter, but take the time to look at Alexandria for a hot minute before entering are running into a serious black ops mission without even doing enough surveillance to realize that it is an outpost not the hub? Â The same characters that were able to outwit and escape from not one, but three situations where the saviors had them at a disadvantage either don't put 2 and 2 together to realize they still have to deal with the saviors? Or worse, DO put it together but go off half cocked on some revenge mission? Â The Carol, Morgan, Rick line was believable and in keeping with their characters. But the rest of it... Â Unless it is revealed that Negan has been poisoning the Alexandria water supply with something that makes people dumbasses believing that the entire group quit doing smart things all at the same time is just too much. Even in the world of the zombie apocalypse! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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