Have the guidelines for gifted and talented/accelerated classes changed?

[Janna]

Just today, in one day, I have come across 4 different people who have children in accelerated classes (also known as "gifted and talented"). There was a time when there weren't that many children in this class - truly only the "special" children. When I came across the 3rd person to tell me that today, I thought to myself, "how odd to run into 3 people in one day!" But then tonight, about 2 hours ago, I talked with a neighbor and her child is in accelerated classes. To me, that's no longer odd. It has me thinking that the guidelines have changed.

 

We all know that the public schools have been struggling in many different areas, and that what was once required knowledge by 1st grade is no longer required until maybe 3rd (Ok, maybe that's a stretch, but you know what I'm saying). So does this mean that because the schools are no longer requiring the same information learned at the same rate as say, 20 years ago, that children who actually know that information now, where 20 years ago it would have been "normal", are now labeled "gifted"? Or did I really run into 4 different people with truly gifted children?

[Laurel]

I know when I was in school, to be put in the gifted and talented program prior to 6th grade, you actually had to test into it. In 6th grade, the number of students in accelerated classes doubled, because parents specifically requested that their children be put in the classes. I think it is common for some parents to want their children in the GT programs because they feel it reflects on them.

 

Also, being in the accelerated program does not necessarily equal "gifted" in how we think of the word. Simply the top x% of their class. Perhaps the percentage in some schools has increased due to growing class sizes as well.

[Mesa]

I'm wondering the same thing... my friends daughter is in 3 gifted classes. This same girl was struggling last year and the mom asked me questions about homeschooling and what "grade" I saw her dd as being in. I see this girl as average, but with the desire to learn. I think with schools around here the gifted/talented line is a little blurred.

[Citrusheights5]

This is a MAJOR pet peeve of mine.....

 

In CA apparently the magic age is 4th grade... If your language arts scores are above proficient, you are placed in the GATE (gifted and talented) and you will not be placed out you are eligible for honors and accelerated classes until 12th grade.. . No one ever told me that 4th grade was the year this was determined, so now if I want to place my DD in any GATE program she would have to go through a battery of test to get in.. Also it does not apply to math scores, only language arts.. DS was in ps but was unable to take the writing test portion of the STAR testing due to a broken arm, so since his scores are incomplete he is also ineligible. But if you can read, and are above proficient in Language arts, you are officially gifted all the way through 12th grade.... or at least it seams in CA...

[JudoMom]

I think guidelines have probably changed, but I'm really posting to tell you that Mr. Reliance is one of the cutest babies I've ever seen!

[Ria]

In our district kids can only test into the gifted program based on the score on their IQ test. Testing is done at the school by a licensed psychologist, or in the home by a licensed psychologist for kids using one of PA's cyber charter options. An IQ of 130 or above is required to be in the gifted program.

 

Ria

[Cindy in MO]

I suppose honors classes fit that classification? My son was hs till this year and is now enrolled as a 10th gr. He has 3 honors classes and does not do the amount of work that I expected. At Orientation the Biology teacher said it wasn't fair to have h. bio. work harder and get a lower grade than regular bio. just because it's harder or something like that, so he has them doing the same stuff. The honors class just moves a little faster. In my opinion, it's just a way to separate the more serious kids and not necessarily the stellar kids. That way they can move faster because there will be more cooperation. Another thought is that the regular classes are dumbed down out of fear of loosing students, so the honors classes are what regular classes used to be.

 

My 2 cents,

Cindy

 

 

 

Cindy

[Janna]

In our district kids can only test into the gifted program based on the score on their IQ test. Testing is done at the school by a licensed psychologist, or in the home by a licensed psychologist for kids using one of PA's cyber charter options. An IQ of 130 or above is required to be in the gifted program.

 

 

 

Oh, wow! I can tell you with complete confidence that that's not the way it's done here!

[Jane in NC]

Guidelines for so called gifted students vary from district to district. Where I live, the kids who qualify for the accelerated classes are just within the top x-percent of their grade--not gifted by traditional measures like IQ or WISC score.

 

The troubling thing, however, is how snobby some of the parents and children are about qualifying for "gifted and talented"! Oy!

[Janna]

Thank you, Judolops. He gets slobbered on by my kisses waaaaay to often! He is a cutie pie, if I may say so myself! And oh, so good natured, to boot!

[Carrie12345]

Every state has different standards for the "gifted" label. Many states allow districts to set different standards.

 

If I'm not mistaken, PA is supposed to aim to identify the upper 2% of students as gifted. Our district had below 1% of our students identified a year or two ago.

 

PA mandates gifted-ed, but our experience consisted of nothing but busy work and 30 minutes every third day with a "teacher of the gifted." It was pretty much a bunch of baloney.

 

With the cyber charter, ds was approved to skip 5th grade math and currently has a 92% average. The b&m school refused to accelerate, claiming he would miss important concepts.

 

He also has "gifted" Language Arts and Literature, but I may have him put back on a regular program. These are impressive courses, but I think they're a bit too heavy for him.

 

Our b&m school didn't do enough for gifted ed, imo. Other schools go overboard, imo. I think our cyber charter handles it pretty well.

 

I still hope I can eventually convince my ex to cut all public school ties so I can stop thinking in terms of gifted and LD! I love being free of all of that with my dds. They can do what they can do, and we work on what they can't, whatever that may be.

[Danestress]

If you wanted to be in an accelerated class, you signed up for it. Anyone could take it. The expectations on the student were much higher and there was a lot of homework, but they did not stop kids from signing up if they desired the greater workload.

 

I sort of liked that. It seemed to work well. There are plenty of smart but lazy kids and many high achievers who have average intelligence and test scores.

[bettyandbob]

where I live not everyone is in gifted classes, but everyone thinks his or her own child should be. In my county group intelligence testing is done in second grade. The county has a certains number of slots and they count down from the top score the number of slots. So some years the IQ score needed is lower than other years. It depends on how the score cluster. Then the classes get overcrowded because some parents feel the group testing is not fair and they have their child tested privately and "apply" for their privately tested child to be included in the gifted program.

 

My younger ds, who is not gifted and who has down syndrom, attends a school that is a gifted center. Kids who would normally attend other schools are bussed to this school and attend classes with only other gifted children. The school itself is still also a neighborhood school. So, out of 6 third grade classes 2 are gifted and 4 are standard. The schools this school draws its gifted students from do not have whole gifted classes, but do have gifted enrichment programs. A lot of kids participate in the neighborhood school gifted enrichment programs. Kids in these programs are not nearly as accelerated as the ones in the self contained center programs.

 

I live in Northern Va. I find 90% of people not only believe their child to be gifted, their child is also a musical prodigy and a star at club soccer. It seems everyother kid is talented at everything. The competition that some parents think they are in is obsene. Now, it is true that this area has an incredibly highly educated population. So, it wouldn't be surprising to find a larger than average amount of gifted children (if that makes sense), but I think some parents go overboard in the push. Honestly, some people really don't know what they are wishing for--they don't know the dark side of being truly academically gifted. That's a topic for some other time.

[Only me]

Several years ago when my oldest dd was in grade school the school would look at the scores that the students received on the achievement tests. The kids had to score in the top 2% of all areas to be placed in the gifted program. The teacher that year lost my daughter's test. She would have to retake the test to be considered for the gifted program. My dd hated taking tests and I didn't really feel it was worth it. For the most part I don't think the "gifted" kids were taught anything different anyway but were perhaps put in a faster track of math. The kids that were considered above average but not "gifted" were picked for "enrichment". It was such a waste of time because they were often pulled out of class to have 1/2 of this enrichment time. Usually the enrichement time was just doing puzzles like mind benders, etc.

 

At my dd's current private high school a teacher has to recommend you for you to take certain honor's classes but not others. For instance to qualify for honors english you need to get an A the previous year, be recommended by a teacher and write an essay, which is evaluated. For honor's chemistry and honor's geometry the teacher just has to recommend you. At that school Spanish 3 is considered honors and you just have to receive an A or B in Spanish 2 to take it.

 

Last year my dd was in sophomore honor's english. It seems that they covered the same basic things as the regular class but at a quicker pace. One big difference was the regular sophomore class had to do a term paper on a short story. The honor's class had to do the term paper on work by Shakespeare. My dd received an A+ in the class. Her teacher definitely recommended that she take honor's class this year. At the end of the year though dd was so burnt out that she decided to take regular english this year.

 

She is taking Spanish 3 (considered honors) and chemistry (which she was really worried about but is doing fine) so she didn't want to load her schedule too much. I left the decision up to her but now I think she is regretting that decision. I think one main difference between the classes is that the kids take school more seriously in the honor's class. The class she is in now has a bunch of trouble makers in it. The class isn't challenging her at all. Unfortunately it is too late for her to change to the honors class. The english class that she has this year as a junior is a lot easier than the honor's english class she had last year as a sophomore.

[hsmamainva]

In our county, if a child is gifted in any area...even if it's only in one area...they qualify for the gifted and talented program. It could be nothing more than being good at art and they're in the entire program.

 

I much prefer the way they did it when I was in school! I was always in what they called "superior" classes for English, because that happened to be my "bent", so to speak. But I was in "average" classes for everything else. If a child was struggling in one area, they were placed in "remedial" classes for that one subject.

 

I had a discussion with a very good friend of mine the other day, who teaches in one of our county's public schools, and she told me that parents object to those "class labels" because they are hurtful and affect the self-esteem of students.

 

I have another friend whose son is in the gifted and talented program. He's the same age as my 9 year old (who is working 2-3 grade levels ahead in our homeschool) and she's always telling me to register him for school so he can get into the G&T program, but...what her son is doing in the G&T program isn't really what I would consider accelerated learning .. or learning at a higher grade level. It's more along the lines of more in-depth or even 'creative work' at the same grade level he would be in if he wasn't in the G&T program. He also does many, many "group think" projects, as she describes them -- working together as a team to come up with the answers.

 

So, to answer your question, yes...the guidelines for G&T have changed.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

In our district kids can only test into the gifted program based on the score on their IQ test. Testing is done at the school by a licensed psychologist, or in the home by a licensed psychologist for kids using one of PA's cyber charter options. An IQ of 130 or above is required to be in the gifted program.

 

Ria

 

This is how it was in Florida 25 years ago. Both of my brothers and I qualified, but my mom was a reverse snob. She didn't want us to get "big headed."

 

I still got most of the same classes as the gifted students, I just didn't get the label. It was an odd place to be.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

My daughter is gifted. The "gifted" program here is made for high achieving teacher pleasers. No 130 IQ score needed to get in. It is a pull out program where kids get additional busy work, but still have to do the work they are assigned in the regular classroom.

 

There is as much difference between my dd and a child with an IQ of 130 as there is between a typical child and one with an IQ of 70. The schools here do not differentiate for levels of giftedness. Plus, these programs are only available for 3rd grade and up, so my child at age 5 would have gotten a grade skip and still had to sit in a class full of kids who could barely read or not read at all, and were learning addition and subtraction in math. That's insane.

 

This is why we homeschool. The local gifted programs can offer my child nothing academically, socially, or emotionally.

[chaik76]

In our district kids can only test into the gifted program based on the score on their IQ test. Testing is done at the school by a licensed psychologist, or in the home by a licensed psychologist for kids using one of PA's cyber charter options. An IQ of 130 or above is required to be in the gifted program.

 

Ria

This is how it is around here too.

[angela in ohio]

When I was in school, there was a difference between accelerated and gifted. The accelerated class had about 25 children (out of about 275,) and the gifted pull-out was 5 children. Truly, a gifted program should represent 1 or 2 children per 100 students.

 

Around here, though, now there are no gifted programs. The money is not there.

 

The meaning of gifted to many people seems to have changed, though. I know many homeschoolers who think their kids are gifted simply because they read above grade level.

[gamommy]

I think it's hard to make generalizations since things vary so widely from state to state and even within some states where districts are allowed more choices. In our small NH town there was no gifted program until kids reached the junior high level, once in a while a truly accelerated child would skip a grade. They also had some multi-grade classrooms offered so one of my daughters was in a combined 2/3 gr class when she was 7 but participated in the higher grade math and reading groups.

 

When we moved to GA three years ago it was quite different. They had a formal program where teachers recommended a child for testing based on their academic performance and standardized test scores (IOWA's I believe) but they then had to take a battery of tests to get in. Four were administered and you needed to place in 3/4 areas to be officially enrolled. My daughter qualified in only 3 of the tests, she didn't score highly enough in the one for creative thinking so she was not accepted. They said she'd be resubmitted in grade 5 where the standards were relaxed, but we pulled her home in grade 4. When we pulled her she'd had two quarters in a row where each of her averages (they gave us a numerical each quarter) was above a 96 across all subjects.

 

Honestly though, my older two kids where both high achievers academically compared with their peers I don't think the 'gifted' label applies to either one of them. They were both well behaved, highly motivated, and generally teacher pleasers. I discovered to my dismay that their grades really did reflect this. When they were more appropriately challenged at home and they were actually graded more objectively their marks slipped. I know that they are being taught more at home so I try not to focus too heavily on the numbers.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I know many homeschoolers who think their kids are gifted simply because they read above grade level.

 

Yes, and this is bothersome- it happens in the public school community as well. Gifted is equated with academic knowledge or achievement. Little Johnny is 4 and he can read! He must be gifted! It all comes down to an ignorance among the general public as to what giftedness is all about.

[Renee in NC]

This is how it is around here too.

 

That is how it was when I was in school. We had a once a week pull out class that was enrichment - it was pretty good (at least better than sitting in the boring regular classroom.)

 

In high school, I had *myself* retested so that I wouldn't have to meet all the requirements for getting in to honors classes. I dropped out, though, because even the honors classes were pointless.

[Tabrett]

Where I live the high schools have renamed the classes. They now are college prep, honors, and AP. There are no "general classes" all students take "college prep". I think it is just renaming.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Tabrett

[H.S. Burrow]

In our district kids can only test into the gifted program based on the score on their IQ test. Testing is done at the school by a licensed psychologist, or in the home by a licensed psychologist for kids using one of PA's cyber charter options. An IQ of 130 or above is required to be in the gifted program.

 

Ria

 

This is how it's done in our school district except that this is ONE of TWO requirements. There are 4 different tests used and a "teacher" portfolio. As long as minimum scores are met for 2 of these, then the child is considered "gifted". Testing is conducted twice a year - November and February - beginning in February for Kindergarteners. Minimum scores vary depending on the test used, but IQ of 130 is one of the requirements.

 

However, the "gifted" kids are only pulled out for "enrichment" once a week for about 30 minutes.

 

As far as "advanced placement - AP" courses... In 7th grade (when our junior high begins) ALL STUDENTS can enroll in the AP courses, not just the "gifted" kids.

 

This is the main reason that we home school. My kids both qualified for the "gifted" program. DH was in the first ever "gifted" group in this school district and was APPALLED at what it had deteriorated to...when he was in GT 1/2 of the school day was spent working on critical thinking skills, advanced math and language skills, etc.

 

We both felt that waiting until 7th grade was too late to begin advanced courses.

[abbeyej]

Truly, a gifted program should represent 1 or 2 children per 100 students.

 

But it's also a mistake to assume that that 1-2/100 (and really, I think that's a *generous* number) would be evenly distributed geographically. Giftedness does seem to run in families, and people with unusual intelligence and/or education do end up grouping together... Not to mention that giftedness is more obvious in children raised in some environments than others...

 

So it doesn't surprise me that one school would have a higher concentration than that, and others might have lower.

 

But on the other hand, one of our local school districts claims that 25% of their high school students (there's only one high school in the district) are "gifted". Gag a maggot. That's just ludicrous.

[Tracey in TX]

It's not the exemplary students any longer. It's considered the norm. One brand new school district can only afford to offer AP classes in high school. Budget doesn't allow for both regular and AP.

Our district is challenging to get into G&T program. 98% on two sets of tests and a subsequent interview. Only a certain number of children are accepted even if they pass the process. There are waiting lists. Problem is the regular courses don't challenge those kids who aren't in the G&T.

Guess what...each of my children is in our G&T program! No tests and interview required. Just a lot of parental involvement! :lol:

[CookieMonster]

Every state has different standards for the "gifted" label. Many states allow districts to set different standards.

 

This is exactly right. Every district has a different interpretation of gifted, if they even bother to try to single gifted children out.

 

Each district has a different program for their gifted students. The gifted program could be anything from 30 minutes a week of busy work to an entire set of classes reserved just for students with the gifted label.

[gardening momma]

I know a teacher (a relative) who taught at an elementary school that divided students in each grade into categories...high, middle high, middle low and low. Each of these groups came in to her classroom at a scheduled time, and she taught the same subject, but at a different level, depending on if it was the "high" class, "middle high" class, etc...

 

I don't know if this school also had any "gifted" or advanced classes.

[elizam]

I hate to even get going on this topic!

 

When my ds entered PS middle school, another homeschooled girl we knew entered shortly after him. Her mother told me a few months later..."Her teacher says she is so well-behaved and makes As and Bs, so she recommends that we put her in AIG (academically and intellectually gifted)." The girl was reasonably bright and had repeated a grade in homeschool because her mother wanted her to...she had also been in a very small Christian school for a time.

 

My own ds was one of those distractable types but an interesting conversationalist...people always assumed he was gifted because of his verbal abilities and because of his interest in chess, music, and well-above grade level reading. PS has been a disaster for him. He now has the label of ADHD and seriously hates learning in a school setting.

 

His experience in middle school was that the "gifted" kids were all of the teachers' and other school personnel's children, plus all of the preppier kids from "good families".

 

Everyone else was "not gifted" and treated as such. He was used to being yelled at and told they would "never pass the EOGs" and were the "worst kids in school, not like the AIG kids."

 

The AIG kids lauded it over the "dumb kids" and enjoyed their position of favor with teachers and administrators. They were the sports stars and popular kids as well.

 

Now those kids are in Honors and AP and are mostly still the ones everyone "loves."

 

So many of those "gifted" kids acted about as dumb as a box of rocks, and you wondered how they stayed in the "superior" classes. A few have been put in lower level high school classes, so perhaps they weren't as smart as they thought they were.

 

Many of the "dumb" kids were really into reading, or music, or other talents, but for whatever reason, rarely made good grades. I don't know if there were ANY LD kids or kids with any other disabilities in the AIG classes, but many in the lower classes had issues (same scenario in high school)

 

Most parents around here brag incessantly about their "gifted" kids. One family I know will turn around EVERY conversation to tell you how smart their kid is. I just don't see it, either. SHe got into a debate one day with a homeschooled girl about Pochahontas, for example. She insisted that Pochahotas was only a Disney character, despite the other girl's explanation that she had just read a book about the real Pochahontas. But, from what I have observed, many of the "gifted" PS kids do not value reading except for the "AR" points and are not particularly knowledgeable about literature, history, or anything fine arts. They do tend to be the earlier readers and the ones to whom math skills come easily.

 

Rant over!

[Renee in NC]

Many of the "dumb" kids were really into reading, or music, or other talents, but for whatever reason, rarely made good grades. I don't know if there were ANY LD kids or kids with any other disabilities in the AIG classes, but many in the lower classes had issues (same scenario in high school)

 

 

This actually isn't unusual. Many gifted students (how many is in dispute) drop out of high school because it is pointless. I dropped out in 10th grade because of it!;)

 

The high school I attended in 9th grade had 2 levels of English - regular and honors. Since I had not been classified "gifted" in that particular school district (don't get me started on that), I was placed in regular English. We learned little, the expectations were low, and the teacher would not give me any grade other than an 88 (which kept me from getting into honors English the next year, too.)

 

I could go on and on about the ridiculous things that happen when you change schools every single year for K-10, but the experiences I had led directly to our homeschooling.

[Alessandra]

Here's a link on giftedness (funny, not serious):

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/22/17-gifted-children/

[SheilaZ]

In our district kids can only test into the gifted program based on the score on their IQ test. Testing is done at the school by a licensed psychologist, or in the home by a licensed psychologist for kids using one of PA's cyber charter options. An IQ of 130 or above is required to be in the gifted program.

 

Ria

 

That's the way it was done in GA and SC when I was younger. I don't know what they do now though.

They began testing in 1st grade and gifted program went through 6th grade. In addition to your IQ score, they also used your reading and math scores. If you had a 130+ IQ but you didn't do well in school, you would not be in the Gifted program.

The program was a pullout class that last all day. So if your were in the gifted class, you only went to regular school 4 days a week.

 

I used to go to school and then ride a bus to a different school for that one day. We'd stop at the other elementary schools and pick up other kids and we were grouped by ages. There were about a dozen 4th and 5th graders in my entire county. I remember that it was always so odd to eat lunch in another school's cafeteria.

[abbeyej]

Here are the requirements in our district in GA (not the one that claims 25% of its high school students are "gifted" -- that district starts about 4 houses down the street from us, lol):

Eligibility Criteria

To be eligible for gifted services, students must qualify in three of the following four areas:

 

--Mental Ability

Minimum of 96% in at least one sub-test area.

 

--Achievement

Minimum of 90% on the total reading, total math, or complete composite.

 

--Creativity

Minimum of 90% on an assessment for creativity.

 

--Motivation

---->Grades K-12 - Minimum of 90% on an assessment for motivation

 

---->Grades 9-12 - 3.5 G.P.A. for two consecutive semesters in English, math, science, social studies, and foreign language if applicable.

 

NOTE:

--A qualifying score on a nationally normed test is required to meet the criteria in at least one area.

 

--Any data used to establish eligibility in one area shall not be used to establish eligibility in another area.

 

--Assessment scores are valid for two years.

 

--Private test data may not be used to determine eligibility. It may be used as a referral for further evaluation.

[Renee in NC]

That's interesting abbeyj. I wouldn't qualify under those requirements. I was always higher than 96% on mental ability and achievement, but by 7th grade my grades crashed (out of complete lack of motivation) and I wouldn't call myself creative!

[lighthouseacademy]

This is a MAJOR pet peeve of mine.....

 

In CA apparently the magic age is 4th grade... If your language arts scores are above proficient, you are placed in the GATE (gifted and talented) and you will not be placed out you are eligible for honors and accelerated classes until 12th grade.. . No one ever told me that 4th grade was the year this was determined, so now if I want to place my DD in any GATE program she would have to go through a battery of test to get in.. Also it does not apply to math scores, only language arts.. DS was in ps but was unable to take the writing test portion of the STAR testing due to a broken arm, so since his scores are incomplete he is also ineligible. But if you can read, and are above proficient in Language arts, you are officially gifted all the way through 12th grade.... or at least it seams in CA...

 

BTW you CAN fight them to administer a different test that is not language arts based... my little brother didn't read until 12. He is, however, a genius (literally) and has severe dyslexia. When he was FINALLY tested for GATE the following year because the teacher condescendingly told my stepmom that "some children are just not meant for GATE." because she already had 2 in GATE including the twin of my brother, the psychologist was shocked at how high he scored because no one had ever scored so high on the test. It was a pattern and relationship mathish based test. I say mathish because it wasn't math per se but more patterns and relationships in a non-language based test. All that said, all GATE meant was an extra hour of school after school a few days of week where they did enrichment activities.

 

Up here in WA, at least in the area that I am familiar with, they test the students in 1st grade with 3 or 4 tests and offer the top 3% a spot in a special classroom at one of the schools for just those children. They are then accelerated to their level depending on the school district.

[camibami]

WHen I was in school, it was IQ based only. And when my oldest went to ps for 2nd grade, it was the same. They had ability level classes for math and LA, 3 levels, the kids would switch to another classroom for math or LA.

 

But being gifted IQ wise is not always related to academic performance, and it is quite possible to have a LD and be gifted. Her gifted class (it had a name, but it escapes me, not GATE like when I was in school) met for half a day once a week. I grew up in the hey-day of gifted education, when it was new and there was more money, and we had a half-day pull out program every day, were bussed to a seprate school that pulled all the kids in the distrct who qualified. It was a small class- only 3 from my entire elementary. I have no idea what the cut-off IQ wise was then, it was 130 for DD's class.She had a boy in her class who was a hot mess behavior and grade-wise, but once they got him into the gifted class he did better. Poor kid was bored out of his skull, and his grades reflected that. I don't get using academic grades/achievement scores as benchmarks for "gifted", because those are 2 different things, IMO.

 

We live in NoVa, too, and every Monday a girl from gymnastics who attends one of the best school districts here comes over. She always has piles of homework, so they don't really get to play very much, as was intended, before practice. She is a grade ahead of my oldest, and in accelerated classes, but most of the work looks to be busy work. I have seen nothing that indicates that very good school district is doing a better job than I can here at home. And though the prospect of gifted classes might tempt me, seeing what they entail here quickly cured me of that!