Kid Meltdown on Plane; Mom blames passenger who got angry

[TranquilMind]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/mum-shames-sickening-passenger-on-facebook-who-screamed-abuse-at-her-ill-child-as-she-bawled-on-plane/ar-BBvHF3r?li=BBnbfcL

 

Now this is interesting.  Thought I would see what you guys have to say.

 

I really can see both sides here. The other adult passenger has a reasonable expectation that kids won't have screaming meltdowns on the plane that are uncontrolled, and the mom has a reasonable expectation that others will be somewhat understanding.

 

We don't know if the adult passenger also had issues that made this unbearable.  And obviously, the adult passenger had no way of knowing this child had a medical diagnosis either. 

Discuss?

[maize]

I expect mentally sound adults to accommodate children more than I expect overwhelmed children to accommodate adults.

 

Screaming is hard on the nerves. I get it. But the woman was out of line.

[TranquilMind]

I expect mentally sound adults to accommodate children more than I expect overwhelmed children to accommodate adults.

 

Screaming is hard on the nerves. I get it. But the woman was out of line.

 

What if the adult has medical issues also?  We just don't know.    We also don't know how long it went on. 

 

A couple of minutes?  An hour?  The entire time of the flight? 

 

I'd be wanting to jump and swim home after about 5 minutes, personally. 

[Outdoorsy Type]

I don't think it's reasonable to expect that children won't have meltdowns. Adult passenger should be able to understand that it might be out of the child's control. She could have asked for headphones, ear plugs, or to be moved. Adult escalated the situation and made it worse for other passengers.

[Mama2BugNBear]

My heart goes out to that little girl! I'd like to know the other perspectives from the antagonist and witnesses on the plane. But ultimately, the antagonist/angry woman shouldn't have engaged the child/child's parents. Instead, she should have called an attendant to handle the situation. Poor choices seem to have been made all around and the little girl was the least capable of handling the situation.

[slterry]

Ridiculous. Ask for earplugs. You don't have an expectation of peace and quiet on a plane unless it is your own private plane, period. 

[TranquilMind]

I don't think it's reasonable to expect that children won't have meltdowns. Adult passenger should be able to understand that it might be out of the child's control. She could have asked for headphones, ear plugs, or to be moved. Adult escalated the situation and made it worse for other passengers.

 

Did she ask to be moved?  I think the mom mentioned something about that.  Going back to read.  Yeah, I would want to move, but then I carry earplugs on a plane. 

 

[TranquilMind]

Ridiculous. Ask for earplugs. You don't have an expectation of peace and quiet on a plane unless it is your own private plane, period. 

What if this kid regularly has huge meltdowns (and we don't know, but just for argument's sake)? 

 

If so, is it reasonable for the family to fly anyway, and everyone else can just suck it up? 

If it was a one time thing, well, then, that is different. 

[maize]

What if the adult has medical issues also?  We just don't know.    We also don't know how long it went on. 

 

A couple of minutes?  An hour?  The entire time of the flight? 

 

I'd be wanting to jump and swim home after about 5 minutes, personally. 

 

If the adult couldn't help herself she couldn't help herself and that's a rough place to be. She has my sympathy and I hope she gets a chance to learn some self-care and coping techniques that don't involve being abusive towards others. 

 

The simple truth is that responding to a child-style meltdown with an adult-style meltdown is not helpful in any way. Adults have more life experience and more mature brains, they have greater capacity to moderate their own behavior and absolutely more responsibility to do so than a child. I do understand very well that an adult's ability to maintain emotional equilibrium and control can be compromised; adult brains don't always function at top capacity. 

 

But I will protect a child first, they are most vulnerable.

[maize]

Ear plugs are a blessed invention :) Fingers work in a pinch.

[slterry]

What if this kid regularly has huge meltdowns (and we don't know, but just for argument's sake)? 

 

If so, is it reasonable for the family to fly anyway, and everyone else can just suck it up? 

If it was a one time thing, well, then, that is different. 

People have a need to be moved by airplane to places. What should they do instead? It's a public mode of transport. Leave the correction up to the airline because verbally abusing other passengers can cause you to be kicked off. The last two times I flew, there were dogs in the cabin. Barking the ENTIRE time, loudly. It was annoying, but oh well. They are allowed to be on the flight, just as children are. My infant daughter thank God, slept the entire way, but I was terrified she would scream. She was insanely constipated and not feeling well. I lucked out. There was nothing I would have been able to do had her ears hurt from the altitude changes or if her tummy hurt from her constipation. And God forbid if I'd needed to nurse her on the flight- we've seen how that goes. 

 

Parents have enough to worry about on flights and ensuring the angelic behavior of their unpredictable (young or medically challenged) children shouldn't be one of them. 

[TranquilMind]

The Mom starts her Facebook blast of this passenger like this:

 

"We are sorry our daughter stopped you from getting your beauty sleep but clearly she was having a meltdown and not feeling 100%..."

 

That's not very nice either.   We know nothing about the passenger.  Maybe the passenger was ill.  Maybe the passenger was on a bereavement flight. 

Or maybe the passenger is just a jerk.  Who knows? 

 

 

 

 

[TranquilMind]

My heart goes out to that little girl! I'd like to know the other perspectives from the antagonist and witnesses on the plane. But ultimately, the antagonist/angry woman shouldn't have engaged the child/child's parents. Instead, she should have called an attendant to handle the situation. Poor choices seem to have been made all around and the little girl was the least capable of handling the situation.

This.  I would love to hear this story from other perspectives also. 

[slterry]

I would also like to hear the other perspective personally, because one-sided stories are never the "whole" story. 

[TranquilMind]

If the adult couldn't help herself she couldn't help herself and that's a rough place to be. She has my sympathy and I hope she gets a chance to learn some self-care and coping techniques that don't involve being abusive towards others. 

 

The simple truth is that responding to a child-style meltdown with an adult-style meltdown is not helpful in any way. Adults have more life experience and more mature brains, they have greater capacity to moderate their own behavior and absolutely more responsibility to do so than a child. I do understand very well that an adult's ability to maintain emotional equilibrium and control can be compromised; adult brains don't always function at top capacity. 

 

But I will protect a child first, they are most vulnerable.

Oh, I agree.  But I would still love to hear the story from an unbiased witness as to what actually happened. 

[TranquilMind]

Ear plugs are a blessed invention :) Fingers work in a pinch.

 

I am very experienced with earplugs, being a light sleeper.  They don't work THAT well.  They take the shrill edge of noise, they don't remove it. 

I could put mine in and block as much sound as possible and still have a conversation with you.  

 

[maize]

The woman should not have yelled at the little girl and her family. Full stop.

 

The question of whether the mom should have posted on facebook as she did is a separate one entirely.

[TranquilMind]

The woman should not have yelled at the little girl and her family. Full stop.

 

The question of whether the mom should have posted on facebook as she did is a separate one entirely.

 

I agree.  I wonder what transpired before that point.  I can't imagine yelling was the first thing she did.   But maybe.

[EKS]

This is why I travel with earplugs.  

 

But having traveled with small children, whenever I hear a child screaming/crying on a plane, I am mostly just grateful that it is not my child doing that!

 

Now, I *did* get annoyed when the guy behind me, in an effort to entertain his kid, kept making loud barfing noises while holding the barf bag to his face.  

[Arcadia]

I read but didn't watch the video. My oldest had a meltdown as a baby flying. The air stewards and stewardess took turns helping.

 

One of my ex-colleague could sleep through any noise and is asleep by takeoff. He wakes up when the airplane taxi down the runway. Meltdowns won't affect him. The rest of us on the same flight couldn't sleep even with melatonin pills. So we had laptops and headsets on gaming away the whole flight. Not everyone on our 6hr international flight was a gamer and the supplied ear plugs aren't great.

 

I had seen similar incidents happened with kids having meltdowns in airports and airplanes. Sometimes it is the adult that meltdown. The only difference is that more people put stuff on social media.

 

I'd be wanting to jump and swim home after about 5 minutes, personally.

Hubby's employer allows employees to drive instead of fly even if it cost the company more than economy class ticket. Still cheaper than domestic business class ticket.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

Even healthy kids have meltdowns, yelling adults don't help.

 

 

Ridiculous.

[creekland]

I'm another who was always glad it wasn't my kid having any sort of meltdown on the plane.  ;)  Mine ended up being great travelers from birth, so I lucked out.  It's so unpredictable - esp since they don't always tell you about ear issues, etc.

 

I can put up with a bit from kids on a plane and have sympathy for their parents/caretakers when it isn't going well.

 

I'm not fond of barking dogs allowed on planes.  That's very annoying to me, but sometimes, such is life.  I liked it when dogs couldn't fly in the cabin unless they were true guide dogs instead of the "anyone can buy a vest" therapy dogs.

 

I remain glad they eliminated smoking from planes (probably dating myself here).  That was the worst.

 

I also know I learned to put up with more from young kids after I had my own.  I was pretty judgmental before.  Clueless me...

[SKL]

I doubt I would ever say anything, but when I was childless I remember being really annoyed when a kid around age 6 screamed through half of our 12-hour flight to India.  Now that I have kids, I'm just glad when it isn't mine being annoying.  :)

 

I can see both sides of this situation.

 

I don't think it's appropriate to shame strangers on facebook.  We have no idea what the other person's problems may be.

 

And I don't agree with using the stranger as a scapegoat.  The little girl has a problem.  The stranger did not create the problem and it is a waste of energy to try to place blame.  I feel very sorry for the child but she obviously struggled with flying, regardless of the people around her.  Maybe the parents are trying to shift their own guilt for putting her through it or for exacerbating things when the stranger got crabby.

[merry gardens]

Rudeness sometimes indicates there's more going on besides simply lack of manners. I don't know the full situation on that plane, but it sounds like all parties involved were rude, intolerant and unsympathetic towards the others. At some point, rude, intolerant and unsympathetic behavior towards others contributes to the diagnosing of a medical or psychiatric illness/disorder. An adult in-law of mine with autism spectrum disorder has been known to have meltdowns of his own. He's not particularly tolerant of even normal kid noises and a changes to his routine brings him particular challenges. (He nearly have meltdown at the airport when security confiscated his toothpaste.) Was that family observing and experiencing someone else's meltdown in response to their daughter's meltdown on top of the normal stress that travel poses to some people? Would the mom who blames the passenger who got angry at her child feel more sympathy toward the other passenger if she discovered that the other passenger also had some type of diagnosis that explains rude behavior?

 

 

 

 

 

[SKL]

My kids just finished a robotics class.  Initially they found one of the teachers really difficult to deal with.  Yesterday, as the class showed off their projects for the parents, I began to understand why.  The teacher appears to have some mental / behavioral challenges.  She was dressed really strange and talked in a very choppy manner, saying things you would not exactly expect, but she was functional enough to do her job.  Lots of people in our society initially seem to be a$$holes though they are actually just people with difficult problems, doing the best they can.  Such people don't wear a big sign on their foreheads.

 

When someone acts strange / inappropriate around me and my kids, I most often tell my kids that person may have special needs which affect his/her ability to make better choices in the moment.  That would probably have been my assumption in the OP case.  However, in the parents' defense, I'm sure they were really stressed out by the situation and the last thing they needed was a comment, knowing already that surely all the passengers were annoyed.  But, that doesn't make it right to post the person's photo on social media.  Sorry.

Edited August 19, 2016 by SKL

[TranquilMind]

Rudeness sometimes indicates there's more going on besides simply lack of manners. I don't know the full situation on that plane, but it sounds like all parties involved were rude, intolerant and unsympathetic towards the others. At some point, rude, intolerant and unsympathetic behavior towards others contributes to the diagnosing of a medical or psychiatric illness/disorder. An adult in-law of mine with autism spectrum disorder has been known to have meltdowns of his own. He's not particularly tolerant of even normal kid noises and a changes to his routine brings him particular challenges. (He nearly have meltdown at the airport when security confiscated his toothpaste.) Was that family observing and experiencing someone else's meltdown in response to their daughter's meltdown on top of the normal stress that travel poses to some people? Would the mom who blames the passenger who got angry at her child feel more sympathy toward the other passenger if she discovered that the other passenger also had some type of diagnosis that explains rude behavior?

 

This is what I wondered.  We just don't know all the facts. 

[TranquilMind]

My kids just finished a robotics class.  Initially they found one of the teachers really difficult to deal with.  Yesterday, as the class showed off their projects for the parents, I began to understand why.  The teacher appears to have some mental / behavioral challenges.  She was dressed really strange and talked in a very choppy manner, saying things you would not exactly expect, but she was functional enough to do her job.  Lots of people in our society initially seem to be a$$holes though they are actually just people with difficult problems, doing the best they can.  Such people don't wear a big sign on their foreheads.

 

When someone acts strange / inappropriate around me and my kids, I most often tell my kids that person may have special needs which affect his/her ability to make better choices in the moment.  That would probably have been my assumption in the OP case.  However, in the parents' defense, I'm sure they were really stressed out by the situation and the last thing they needed was a comment, knowing already that surely all the passengers were annoyed.  But, that doesn't make it right to post the person's photo on social media.  Sorry.

Agree.  That is way out of line. 

[Arcadia]

The teacher appears to have some mental / behavioral challenges. She was dressed really strange and talked in a very choppy manner, saying things you would not exactly expect, but she was functional enough to do her job.

My 11th/12th grade math lecturer had a stroke before my cohort. He stutters and has face tics. We could still understand him but was curious why. Someone in my cohort asked our other math lecturers. We extend a lot more grace after that.

[Amira]

My number one rule for surviving air travel with small children is to remember that no matter what happens, you won't see any of these people again. If you want that to remain true, then don't post about passengers who irritate you on social media.

[hornblower]

I think the next innovation in flying should be conscious sedation for everyone. Some kind of a drip or air mask or something, or a little pill you swallow as you board.

 

Then you disembark 8h later saying "what? already? we just got on board!" 

 

[luuknam]

I think the next innovation in flying should be conscious sedation for everyone. Some kind of a drip or air mask or something, or a little pill you swallow as you board.

 

Then you disembark 8h later saying "what? already? we just got on board!"

 

There are plenty of people who do get *something* OTC or from the doctor for flying purposes. And if you have a special needs kid who has a habit of melting down, then it would make sense to get something like that. Not that we know that this kid had a habit of melting down, nor how long the kid melted down before the other passenger had had enough, etc etc etc.

[Guest]

Louis ck had the best bit about that.

 

"Oh, you think this [my baby crying on a plane] is something that's happening to YOU"

[Supertechmom]

I've watched kids grow up who had meltdowns ( I know they couldn't help it and still can't and need help, not blaming just stating they are meltdown prone for various reasons)  but now they are adults.  The meltdowns are still there.  Just in a big body.  I'm watching a friend's child go through this. He's now heading into adulthood.   No amount of work has ever changed the shrill outrage and disgust over any and all changes that go against him.   Him on a plane with  a screaming child.......Major adult meltdown with him pacing up and down in extreme agitation ......

 

I had a 40 ish year old woman in a high stress competitive school program years ago.   She had giant (she was a tall big boned gal)  meltdowns including screaming and stomping her feet and tearing shit up meltdowns.  She seemed normal enough until anything challenging went against her.  Then oh boy ...watch out.

 

I dont' have anything to say I reckon.  I don't know what the solutions are but can imagine that we will see and hear more stuff like this.  Adults that can''t and never have been able to handle challenges and kids who can't either.  Put the two together in their bad moments and..........

 

Grace has to be extended to both.  Neither have adult control.

[Valley Girl]

Sometimes parents don't realize how annoying their children are being. For instance, they may not realize the child is kicking a seat or how irritating whining can be. However, I would hope strangers would be polite in that situation if they felt they had to say something at all. And sympathetic to the parents if they saw the parents making an effort. What I don't understand is why, after the mother explained the child's medical situation, the woman just didn't ask if the crew could reseat her, especially if she had something going on that made it especially difficult for her to deal with the situation herself. (Maybe she did. It would be helpful to hear the other side.)

[Mergath]

Obviously, the woman should have been kinder and not screamed at the kid if she could at all control herself. That's a given. Kids have meltdowns, and you can't always avoid flying with young children. Nor should you have to.

 

With that said, I recently learned about something called "misophonia," which is a kind of disorder that makes a person intolerant to very specific sounds. (I looked it up in the first place because I couldn't figure out why the sound of my dh watching tv in the bedroom, or our duplex neighbor listening to music, made me freak the f* out like a crazy person and hyperventilate and want to strangle someone.) They don't know much about it, but it has something to do with the association of past trauma with that sound somehow, and the limbic system triggering an adrenaline rush along with rage and fear every time you hear it. I always assumed my issue in that regard was connected to my OCD, and they might in fact be related, but people with no other mental illnesses can have it too. It might also be related to SPD.

 

So what I'm getting at here is that while it's possible the woman is just your run-of-the-mill asshat, it's also possible she had something like misphonia, that crying kids are her trigger, and that she clung to the end of her rope for as long as she could and then lost it.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Mergath

[SKL]

Although it would be nice if all strangers were understanding of special needs, we are not Utopia yet.

 

So here's a thought.  If one has a child with known special needs, that include disruptive behavior that is difficult or impossible to control, in a situation the child cannot leave (like a plane ride), maybe the parents / caregivers could carry a card that could be handed to anyone who reacts to the situation.  Something that briefly explains that the child has a diagnosis and the parent / caregiver will do what works best but it may not be enough to ensure a comfortable experience for everyone.  To please be understanding in that case.

 

Seems better than having a back-and-forth that could get nasty in front of the kid(s).

Edited August 19, 2016 by SKL

[Valley Girl]

 

I'm not fond of barking dogs allowed on planes.  That's very annoying to me, but sometimes, such is life.  I liked it when dogs couldn't fly in the cabin unless they were true guide dogs instead of the "anyone can buy a vest" therapy dogs.

 

 

On my last flight it was a cat. That meowed. A lot. It was annoying as all get-out. What was more annoying? My seatmate who felt the need to comment on it incessantly. I wanted to tell HER to shut up. I mean, I'm sure the owner knew it was meowing. What exactly did the woman expect the owner to do at that point? I kept quiet except to say several times that I was sure the poor cat was frightened. When you travel (even as infrequently as I do), you have to be prepared to deal with stuff. And cutting parents of young children a break is a given or should be.

[mommyoffive]

This stuff always makes me nervous as I know I get the death stares when I board a plane with my 5 kids.  And we are about to fly here so it stresses me out.   They have all been pretty good travelers, but we all have our moments.

 

I think everyone should give everyone else the extension of grace.  You have no idea what the person is dealing with.  By that I mean they may have special needs.  You don't know what is going on with their personal life.  You don't know how stressful this travel has been for them.  

 

I know it would sucks to be dealing with the meltdown of whoever. 

 

The last time we flew we had people on the plane that they thought were having a heart attack.  2 people actually.  Luckily there was a doctor on board.  They said that we may need to land in the middle of our flight.  Of course I got a bit upset at the thought of how that would impact me.   But then of course if it was me or my family I would want them to land the plane.  

So I changed my thoughts.

[Bluegoat]

Kids have meltdowns on planes because, it seems, planes are designed by people who enjoy creating those situations.

 

Adults are not at their best on planes for similar reasons.

 

I think we should all expect that airplane travel will be a terrible experience, and then take whatever that means in stride.

 

But I don't really blame people who lose it.

[luuknam]

Kids have meltdowns, and you can't always avoid flying with young children.

 

That said, I don't think of 8yo as a 'young' child, nor as an age where kids normally have meltdowns.

[Mergath]

That said, I don't think of 8yo as a 'young' child, nor as an age where kids normally have meltdowns.

 

No, but the article mentioned that the child had some medical issues, so we don't know if she was NT or not.

[luuknam]

No, but the article mentioned that the child had some medical issues, so we don't know if she was NT or not.

 

I know. Just that your statement about kids having meltdowns and not being able to avoid flying with young children just wasn't very applicable to an 8yo. They're not toddlers.

[maize]

That said, I don't think of 8yo as a 'young' child, nor as an age where kids normally have meltdowns.

 

I have an 8 year old who has frequent meltdowns.

[Arcadia]

The article said that the child has Sturge-Weber syndrome. I had to google to know what it is and I can see an already upset passenger being more upset by being told a condition she is unfamiliar with.

 

I do wonder why the air stewards and stewardess didn't set in and calm the situation though but it could be that the article just didn't mention it.

[poppy]

What is the point of her posting this?

Obvoiusly yelling at a person mid-meltdown is never a good idea, particularly a child.

But that's not the story to me. The story to me is, this lady put her kids name and medical condition up publicly in order to shame a stranger.  Why? What is the ever loving point?

My cynical side says, maybe she wants free airline tickets?

[Arcadia]

I think the next innovation in flying should be conscious sedation for everyone. Some kind of a drip or air mask or something, or a little pill you swallow as you board.

 

I can't tell if you are joking but melatonin pills can cause the reverse effect for kids and adults. They get hyper instead. We were told by our kids' pediatrician to do a test run at home if we want to use melatonin pills for long plane flights.

 

Local anesthesia and epidural has negligible effect on me and some of my relatives. Xanax injection at full dose which I had as a emergency aid for severe insomia might work but that is kind of extreme for plane travel.

[trulycrabby]

Significant medical issues with the child; she could have been exhibiting prodomal seizure symptoms, or just having a meltdown. Sturge Weber has a significant neurological component. That facebook post was in poor taste, though.

[luuknam]

I can't tell if you are joking but melatonin pills can cause the reverse effect for kids and adults. They get hyper instead. We were told by our kids' pediatrician to do a test run at home if we want to use melatonin pills for long plane flights.

 

Local anesthesia and epidural has negligible effect on me and some of my relatives. Xanax injection at full dose which I had as a emergency aid for severe insomia might work but that is kind of extreme for plane travel.

 

Huh, never heard that about melatonin (have heard it about benadryl). Not sure why you'd inject xanax (when talking about a traveling on a plane situation) - there are pills you can swallow, and ones you can dissolve under your tongue (well, not 100% sure if they have the latter for xanax specifically, but they have those for some benzodiazepines). A benzodiazepine for older people (not toddlers) who melt down on long plane flights doesn't sound that unreasonable to me.

[Epicurean]

What is the point of her posting this?

Obvoiusly yelling at a person mid-meltdown is never a good idea, particularly a child.

But that's not the story to me. The story to me is, this lady put her kids name and medical condition up publicly in order to shame a stranger.  Why? What is the ever loving point?

My cynical side says, maybe she wants free airline tickets?

 

She obviously wants attention. Even if the situation happened exactly as described, her goal is to make herself the victim, through the proxy of her child.

 

That worries me. It makes me think that maybe she put her daughter in a situation she knew she wouldn't deal well with, without the aid of any medication or considering other travel options, because it allowed her the opportunity to feel persecuted and self-righteous and have a wonderful story to go viral on FB. I suspect she may have even provoked the stranger (imagine the kid screaming for hours, a stranger politely asking if there's anything that can be done, the mom telling her to buzz off, then a back-and-forth between the mom and stranger that got more and more heated--or any number of alternatives to the story as told by the mom).

[Guest]

I would like to see medically fragile people given a seat that works for them, or the passengers they inconvenience given the choice to rebook at no fee penalty. Last time I took the redeye back from the west coast, the guy in the aisle seat next to me was upset that my teen and I in the same row needed to use the bathroom. He had a hip condition and wasnt able to medicate, so we had to choose between our bladders and his pain. He lost, but we minimized his getting up and down by making our trip to the head at the same time. His wife did the same thing to the people in her row. They could have flown first class and had seats with enough room to manuever. Fortunately my husband was there to get the f.a. since the angry man blocked my reach to the summon button.

 

I wonder that the child in this case would have been better off in an air ambulance. No ear protection given to passengers, no ability for those who dont want a broken bone to vacate the tantrum throwing area, etc.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Heigh Ho