young children and musical instruments

[EmilyGF]

I have five kids. The older three play instruments (ds11 piano, started at 8y11m, dd9 flute, started six months ago, and dd7 violin, started 10 months ago). There was no philosophy guiding when they started, just that it made sense logistically and financially at that time.

 

I also have a very athletic and energetic 4-year-old boy. He sings all the time, singing all the songs from his sisters' Suzuki CDs pretty darn in tune. He begs me to go to his sisters' lessons and group classes. When I give in, he sits quietly and listens the whole time. He picks out pieces on the piano (slowly and painfully) by himself for fun.

 

He's never said he wants to play an instrument, yet I have this feeling that he "should" because of the aptitude he shows and the way he is centered and calm at the classes he goes to. But he's 4. And if I ask him, he won't say that he wants to play an instrument.

What would you do? Suzuki moms with opinions?

 

Emily

[maize]

Give it a try, some four year olds are ready for Suzuki.

 

If it causes more stress than joy then let it go for now and try again later.

[Guest]

Not Suzuki, but DS started piano at 4.

[purpleowl]

We don't do Suzuki, but I started teaching DD#2 piano at 3.5 (about a year ago). She was clearly ready to begin learning piano, but not to sit in a formal lesson once a week. So I picked up some introductory-level books and started teaching her myself, when she felt like it. At some point she will switch to lessons with the same piano teacher DD#1 has, probably either around January (she'll be 5 in December) or else the following fall.

[Jackie]

DD was obsessed with the violin, so she started when she was 3 and stuck with it for about 1.5 years. Her teacher was Suzuki trained, but didn't necessarily follow Suzuki in lessons. The good: DD loved the lessons, it helped develop her attention span, and she stopped nagging me to learn the violin. The bad: Practice. She wasn't ready to work steadily towards a long-term goal, so there was cajoling and bribing to get her to practice, even though she was super happy and proud every time she was able to do something new. I was definitely putting in more effort than her, and didn't put up any fight when she said she wanted to drop it.

 

Why would your son say he doesn't want to learn an instrument if asked? If he isn't interested, I would let it go.

[catz]

We started kids in Suzuki at 4 and 5 (they are now 12 and 15 and still playing).  I would say when considering starting a child that young, it's at least as much about parent enthusiasm as the child's.  Are you prepared to practice with him 6 days a week and keep the tone light and fun?  Are you ok with letting go expectations about progress for the start up period when you're building a practice habit?  The practice thing is really the sticking point for many kids AND parents.  There's a big difference between enjoying music and the actual grind of day to day practice, focus, following directions well, etc.

 

Another important thing to consider is if you can find a teacher with proven experience starting kids that young.  I would not start with a teacher that didn't have lots of experience and training working with the younger age set. 

 

I think there can be advantages and disadvantages to starting young.  I also think for a musically inclined kid, they will soar no matter when they start. 

 

If the 4 year old in question hasn't done any kind of music class, I think early childhood group classes (kindermusik, etc) are GREAT and can really set up a child well for private lessons and if you haven't done that, I would start there.  We're in a large Suzuki program and kids under 5 are required to do some group stuff before starting private now.   Especially for a child that is enjoying observation but doesn't say he wants to start.

Edited August 7, 2016 by WoolySocks

[Tranquility7]

We start ours on Suzuki piano at 4 yrs old. I agree it is as much ore more about the parent's willingness than the child's. If you are up for it, and the teacher agrees, then I'd go ahead and start him.

 

If you are iffy about lessons but want to encourage him, here are two additional ideas:

1) Buy Suzuki Piano book 1 (and CD). Some of these songs are the same as those in the flute and violin books. Have your older DS help your younger DS figure out the right hand of the songs (it sounds like he is already doing this, but just make sure it is in the same key as the written music). Then have your older DS play the left hand while your younger DS is playing the right hand. Super fun :-)

 

2) See where your DDs' flute and violin books overlap with the Suzuki Piano Book 1 (not only in song but in key). Then have your older DS teach the left hand part to your younger DS (the first few are super easy patterns). Then have younger DS play left hand on piano while a DD plays the melody on flute or violin.

 

These are just ways to encourage your DS to make music and will buy you some more time before having to pay for lessons. But meanwhile it could also help him develop his ear more as well as coordination and skill.

[wintermom]

We started kids in Suzuki at 4 and 5 (they are now 12 and 15 and still playing).  I would say when considering starting a child that young, it's at least as much about parent enthusiasm as the child's.  Are you prepared to practice with him 6 days a week and keep the tone light and fun?  Are you ok with letting go expectations about progress for the start up period when you're building a practice habit?  The practice thing is really the sticking point for many kids AND parents.  There's a big difference between enjoying music and the actual grind of day to day practice, focus, following directions well, etc.

 

Another important thing to consider is if you can find a teacher with proven experience starting kids that young.  I would not start with a teacher that didn't have lots of experience and training working with the younger age set. 

 

I think there can be advantages and disadvantages to starting young.  I also think for a musically inclined kid, they will soar no matter when they start. 

 

If the 4 year old in question hasn't done any kind of music class, I think early childhood group classes (kindermusik, etc) are GREAT and can really set up a child well for private lessons and if you haven't done that, I would start there.  We're in a large Suzuki program and kids under 5 are required to do some group stuff before starting private now.   Especially for a child that is enjoying observation but doesn't say he wants to start.

 

:iagree:   I completely agree with this. If you are enthusiastic about starting lessons, then you could start with 15 minute private lessons, perhaps with the same teacher as one of your other children. That's what I did for my youngest ds. Just see how it goes. You can always stop and take a break until he's a little older. 

[SKL]

My kids both started formal piano lessons at 4 and added guitar at 5.  It was not too young.  :)

[JennSnow]

We started our 4 year old with Suzuki lessons about 4 months ago shortly after he turned 4.  I would have never even thought of starting at 4 but he loves music (to the point of obsession) and was constantly climbing up on the piano trying to pound out songs by ear so we figured we'd give it a try :).  We began taking 15 minute weekly lessons with a very talented high school student who has mentored under a Suzuki instructor.  It soon became clear that we needed to find someone who had more experience teaching small children.  He now takes 30 minute weekly lessons at a Suzuki music school (they also do Saturday group lessons during the school year).  His teacher is wonderful with him and over all we're all really happy with the decision to give it a go.  I'm new to the Suzuki method but it's neat to see how each piece he learns is teaching him skill and technique..it's all very thought out.  They're also encouraging ds to learn to sight read music as well which is nice because then he can begin to work on up and coming songs before they officially begin to learn them :).

 

[Donna]

My dd started Suzuki violin when she turned 3yo. Lessons were 15-30 min in the beginning depending on her interest and we practiced for 5-10 min a few times a day whenever she picked up her violin. It went very well and music is a huge part of her life now.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Donna

[momacacia]

He sounds like he's ready to try *something*!! :)

[EmilyGF]

Great suggestions about listening to piano and playing with big brother.

 

I like the early childhood music idea.

 

I practice with my three olders, so I am very aware of the time and dedication music takes! :-)

 

Emily

[Gabrielsyme]

My four year old started Suzuk cello six months ago. He was similar, picking out his older sister's Suzuki violin pieces on our piano and paying close attention at recitals, etc... The difference is that he asked. He had been talking about playing cello since he was 2 and we made him wait until 4. Even though he's very motivated it has been a different experience than starting my daughter at age 5. He loves it and I don't regret the decision but the trajectory of learning has been different. Everyone says boys fine motor skills are not as developed early on as girls and this is true of him. He picked up reading music without difficulty but it's hard for him to move his hands quickly, accurately and firmly enough to make his 1/16 size cello sound like the CD. He doesn't seem frustrated by this and I can see that he's learning a lot about technique so I feel that even though he's handicapped a little by limitations in dexterity. With all that said though I don't think I would have started this year if he hadn't asked. Next year, yes, but somehow forcing a four year old to practice when he could be playing seems a little less fair than pushing a five year old to do the same. Make sense?

[Bluegoat]

My kids when younger all really enjoyed Music For Young Children.  There are teachers in Canada and the US.  It's an early childhood approach, they do singing, piano, some music theory, and so on.  There is a group for age 4 though I always felt that the five year old group was more worthwhile. 

 

Another possibility, rather than an instrument, might be a singing group of some kind.

 

 

[EmilyGF]

So I just sat down my 4-year-old with the Suzuki piano CD. I made him sit because he'd been terrorizing his sisters. He grabbed some colored pencils as drum sticks and random desk stuff as drum pads (stapler, tape dispenser, etc) and drummed to the entire CD. When it finished, he was disappointed and he said, "Can this be my school?"

 

:-) Thanks for the idea!

[zaichiki]

Some kids are ready at 4, some are ready even younger, and some can wait.  Our experience (below) shows how different it can be, even within one family (same parents, same musical environment).

 

Over the last 12 years I've participated in Suzuki lessons with all four of my kids (cello x 2, viola, and violin).  Oldest asked for lessons at 5 and began lessons soon after asking. He played for 9 years before putting the cello aside. Second child asked for lessons at 2, got them at 3, and plays very seriously now and plans to make it a career. Third child asked for lessons at 4, played for 2 years, then decided he hated practicing (he would try to find all sorts of ways to get out of practicing... and when he was sitting with me, oh boy did he fight it... so I was thrilled that he wanted to quit, but he had to finish out the semester first). Youngest child wanted a teacher ever since she could speak. She started at 2.5 and loved it for a few months. When the teacher said she was ready to start using fingers on the strings, dd disagreed, wanting only to scrub away at the strings. I put the lessons on hold (instead of cajoling/working my tail off to get her to cooperate) until she was willing to follow along with the teacher's ideas. She started again at 6 and is flying.  Honestly, she could have started at 4. She was ready then (but I was not).

 

There is no one right time. Whatever works for your specific child and your specific family is the way to go.

 

 

[Homeschoolmom3]

My son started piano at 4 and he is 5 1/2 now and doing great! I say go for it can always lay off if too much or go at his pace. 😊

Edited August 10, 2016 by Homeschoolmom3

[Earthmerlin]

Not to derail this thread but i'd like to hear what helped those with 7 year old beginners to practice between lessons. I'm soon enrolling my daughter in piano lessons & want to head off some resistance by putting a system in place. Anything work for you folks?

[Lfwfv]

I'm a professional violinist, and teach Suzuki violin (long-term Suzuki training through Book 10). Kids can absolutely do great with music from a young age but it is 90% up to the parents in terms of motivation/practice habits/patience/consistency. The process is slow, but incremental progress is consistent when daily practice is a habit, not unlike the process of rigor/progression outlined in the core subjects in WTM. I teach my own three year old, as well as a studio of students, and the most important thing really is consistency. Show up every day to practice with your kid. It doesn't have to be perfect- there will be smiles, there will be tears, there will be tantrums, there will be triumphs. Sometimes you'll get through 10 minutes, sometimes you'll easily do 30 minutes without losing focus. Listen to music, move to music, sing together and to him/her. Practice every day (or one day off per week if that fits your lifestyle/philosophy better). You don't see progress day to day, but after one year, two years etc. you will be in awe of how far you've come. Kids' motivation and enthusiasm waxes and wanes. As a parent, decide if music education is important to you, and then treat it like brushing teeth, doing math etc.. There will be resistance at times, but the joy will come too! Just do it. A little bit. Each day. Sprunger's book called "Helping Parents Practice" is awesome (buy through Shar music for a decent price).

 

[Bluegoat]

Not to derail this thread but i'd like to hear what helped those with 7 year old beginners to practice between lessons. I'm soon enrolling my daughter in piano lessons & want to head off some resistance by putting a system in place. Anything work for you folks?

 

When my kids were little, the program they were in was set up to encourage daily practice, even if it was really short.  The kids were a bit younger - 5 - but they kept track at class each week, and there was a reward system for so many practices.  I have met people who object to this but my view is that for younger kids, the rewards of practice are not so obvious that it is self-reinforcing.  Practicing does not mean they will suddenly be able to play the way they want to - they have to keep on for a good while before they really start to understand that their are becoming competent.  So I think some external motivation during that time can be ok.

 

The other aspect to this is that the ideas is to create a habit of practicing as much as actually do the practice.  So it helps to treat it in a consistent way.

 

I found that my kids were able to transition to practicing on their own at around 8 or 9 - I would remind them if necessary, but they could sit down and do what needed to be done, and mostly solve problems that arose.  Before that, I really had to direct the practice and often sit with them too to help them focus.

[Earthmerlin]

I'm a professional violinist, and teach Suzuki violin (long-term Suzuki training through Book 10). Kids can absolutely do great with music from a young age but it is 90% up to the parents in terms of motivation/practice habits/patience/consistency. The process is slow, but incremental progress is consistent when daily practice is a habit, not unlike the process of rigor/progression outlined in the core subjects in WTM. I teach my own three year old, as well as a studio of students, and the most important thing really is consistency. Show up every day to practice with your kid. It doesn't have to be perfect- there will be smiles, there will be tears, there will be tantrums, there will be triumphs. Sometimes you'll get through 10 minutes, sometimes you'll easily do 30 minutes without losing focus. Listen to music, move to music, sing together and to him/her. Practice every day (or one day off per week if that fits your lifestyle/philosophy better). You don't see progress day to day, but after one year, two years etc. you will be in awe of how far you've come. Kids' motivation and enthusiasm waxes and wanes. As a parent, decide if music education is important to you, and then treat it like brushing teeth, doing math etc.. There will be resistance at times, but the joy will come too! Just do it. A little bit. Each day. Sprunger's book called "Helping Parents Practice" is awesome (buy through Shar music for a decent price).

 

Thanks for this. I am coming to understand that it'll initially be MY responsibility as much as hers in setting up routines & expectations. I take the long term perspective as this being lifelong training in developing perseverance, which is an important trait to teach my child. Luckily, I was (am) a 'band geek' & can help with logistics & understand the process & how difficult it can initially be. I have a passion for music so she'll also see that side. Since she's 6 & still believes all things should be 'easy' I'll need to be armed with a system to carry us through those inevitable moments of resistance. The other poster's ideas have my wheels turning....hmmmm.....

[blondeviolin]

I will give some dissent. Firstly, I am a classically-trained violinist who didn't start playing until I was ten. I also play piano and started that younger than ten. My mom taught piano as a kid, and I'm not sure when she started me on lessons, but I know it was too much to keep going on top of everything else so I only had so many formal lessons. I was the motivated one, though, and taught myself nearly everything piano from the start. Of course, if I had a question I could ask my mom, but otherwise I figured it out from the lesson books. As an adult, I teach piano to a smattering of kids, including my own.

 

All of that said, unless the child is asking/begging, I wouldn't begin a child in formal lessons until at least 6; 7/8 would be better IMO. IME, a lot of this is like potty training early. You can start music instruction earlier, but the parent is driving the train, making sure the child practices and does what he/she needs to do for each practice. The child improves incrementally. OR, you can wait until a bit older when the child himself can practice with minor oversight. At 8yo, a beginning pianist makes leaps and bounds until s/he catches up to the place where s/he would be if lessons had happened at a younger age.

 

The obvious exception will be the child who is extremely talented, a little prodigy. This child will teach himself regardless of if he has lessons or not. Just in case, have the books around. You'll be able to tell within a couple of weeks if he is completely self-motivated. (This is a lot like my current 5yo who begged me for reading lessons for six months at 3.5. I put it off because he was so young and I was teaching others. Until I realized he could read at just 4. :lol:)

 

Like I said, you CAN start earlier. I teach younger kids. The lessons, though, are slower going and more incremental.

Edited August 15, 2016 by blondeviolin

[Bluegoat]

I will give some dissent. Firstly, I am a classically-trained violinist who didn't start playing until I was ten. I also play piano and started that younger than ten. My mom taught piano as a kid, and I'm not sure when she started me on lessons, but I know it was too much to keep going on top of everything else so I only had so many formal lessons. I was the motivated one, though, and taught myself nearly everything piano from the start. Of course, if I had a question I could ask my mom, but otherwise I figured it out from the lesson books. As an adult, I teach piano to a smattering of kids, including my own.

 

All of that said, unless the child is asking/begging, I wouldn't begin a child in formal lessons until at least 6; 7/8 would be better IMO. IME, a lot of this is like potty training early. You can start music instruction earlier, but the parent is driving the train, making sure the child practices and does what he/she needs to do for each practice. The child improves incrementally. OR, you can wait until a bit older when the child himself can practice with minor oversight. At 8yo, a beginning pianist makes leaps and bounds until s/he catches up to the place where s/he would be if lessons had happened at a younger age.

 

The obvious exception will be the child who is extremely talented, a little prodigy. This child will teach himself regardless of if he has lessons or not. Just in case, have the books around. You'll be able to tell within a couple of weeks if he is completely self-motivated. (This is a lot like my current 5yo who begged me for reading lessons for six months at 3.5. I put it off because he was so young and I was teaching others. Until I realized he could read at just 4. :lol:)

 

Like I said, you CAN start earlier. I teach younger kids. The lessons, though, are slower going and more incremental.

 

I think something to think about with this is also going to be, for many people, money, and how to best use it.

 

I've often felt that for smaller kids, good dance lessons can be a really good option, before they are ready for music lessons.  My ds is six, and although his sisters started music at that age, I can't really see it for him, but he does ballet and that has I think supported a very good and appropriate physical relationship for him with music.

[Shifra]

Everyone on this thread has given out great suggestions. It seems to me you have a few choices:

 

1. You could have your child do Suzuki lessons through your other children's teachers, maybe doing a shorter lesson than the older children. Most Suzuki siblings progress through lessons faster than their older siblings since they have living examples living with them.  :lol: If you go this route, I recommend that you read In the Suzuki Style: A Manual for Raising Musical Conciousness in Children by Elizabeth Mills and How to Get Your Child to Practice--Without Resorting to Violence by Cynthia V. Richards.
2. You could teach your child piano yourself, using a program like Music for Little Mozarts, which is meant for ages 4-6. There's also Pace's Music for Moppets, but you would have to buy the teacher's guide.
3. You could use a program like Preschool Prodigies or Little Musician at home to teach your child the basics of music and musical notation without using formal lessons. Preschool Prodigies uses either Chroma-Note desk bells (which they sell on their website) or Chroma-Note stickers to put on your piano to teach your child to distinguish the difference between the notes. Preschool Prodigies also sells sheet music using Chroma-Note musical notation that you can buy without buying their web-based lessons. Little Musician has on their website for free download a booklet that discusses how to enhance your child's musical education and the various approaches to teaching music.
4. You could have your son go to music classes for preschoolers like Kindermusik, Musikgarten, Yamaha Music Education System, Harmony Road Music or, as Bluegoat mentioned, Music for Young Children. ETA: I forgot to mention Music Together.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Shifra