Thank you Lynn! Yes, I have thought more about it and I think I want to keep things really simple...memorize the timeline (without the song, for exactly the reason you state....I just want to chant the list of events in order and skip all the extras that are in the song. That way, we can just tack on the next 32 cards/events to our recitation list and eventually just chant the whole timeline from all five card sets). I think, for the grammar stage, I'm just going to read the card and discuss it, and then read a bunch of books about each topic and look at the map/globe. We might do the odd narration page ala WTM, but mostly just memorize the timeline, read a bunch and discuss. We love love love reading, and I want my kids to love exploring and learning about history. I am thinking that memorizing the timeline will serve the point of making sure they are retaining something long-term. I was looking at the TruthQuest guides, and though I don't want to use them, reading through some of the comments helped me realize that it really might be enough just to memorize the timeline and read/discuss living books. Simple, enjoyable, flexible, and maybe even (hopefully) very effective. For logic stage, I envision continuing to reinforce the timeline memory so it's something they retain long-term, and then fleshing it out with more resources, maybe some more writing, higher-level readings, and some outlining etc.. Basically, using WTM methods with the cards as a spine instead of something like SOTW. Thank you for your thoughts!

Yes, thanks Angie! I guess I'm just wondering if fleshing the VP history cards out by using them as the spine in a WTM-style history approach (and not using VP's worksheet/test route) has worked for anybody else. We do have the song CD too, though i think we might just learn the timeline as a chant instead of the song....thanks!

Hi, I am preparing for my first history cycle with my soon-to-be-first-grader. I really like the four-year history cycle, and I had planned for SOTW as our spine, but for multiple reasons, we are realizing it is not the right fit for our family. I have the first set of VP history timeline cards and am thinking we might be able to use their cards as a basis for a four-year cycle. That said, I am not liking VP's teacher manual and the emphasis on worksheets, quizzes...dull info. And it certainly feels like overkill for a first grader (I know it's intended for grade 2+). I do have some of the resources they list on the back of their cards, and I want to keep this fun for my 6 year old. We do a good chunk of math and English and other things already each day, so I want history to be primarily fun and not super time intensive. A lot of read-alouds and looking at pictures and encyclopedias together. I will plan on memorizing the timeline as our "retention help", but other than that, I want to keep it fun and to eliminate any unnecessary work/preparation (and moving parts). VP as written seems very awkward, time intensive, and somewhat dull...and we don't want to do the online program, so no need to suggest that. I am thinking we could memorize the timeline from all 5 sets of card for our "grammar stage history memory". We would cover the timeline over the course of five years (so, about 40ish cards per year I think?), and other than memorizing the timeline, we would just read (maybe with some informal oral narration) extra books and looking at maps (I don't like the map from the TM for VP...). I am thinking we could then cycle through history using the cards as our spine again in the logic years (and continuing to review our memorized timeline), and fleshing it out by reading more in depth encyclopedias and using the outlining practices from WTM. So, I guess I'm wondering, has anybody used the VP cards in this way and had success? TIA!

Hi, I have been using R&S math grade 1 for my 5 year old, but am wondering if this is a good program for us to continue long-term. I feel he needs the step by step instruction, repetition, and I love the concept of detailed, thorough teaching and the simple mastery approach. It is a little tedious with all the drill, and he is not a fan of how long all of it takes, but he is definitely retaining and gaining mastery. I have lightly considered CLE, but when I look at the samples, I feel like it is so all over the map with the spiral approach, and it also seems like they cover a ton of stuff very early but at a much more surfacy level that I am not sure is going to work for my ds (or me, quite frankly....I'm all about mastering at a deep level). I am concerned that R&S math is not going to lend itself to us doing well on standardized tests, and that it will not prepare our kids for a STEM focus if that's where they end up getting to. Some people say only conceptual math approaches are relevant these days. My dh is an electrical engineer and argues that the math facts are key to doing more complex math later, but I'm just not sure we don't need a more conceptual approach even at these younger years. So, my questions are particularly for those with experience with R&S and moving on to high school level math or completing standardized testing.... 1) If I plan on using R&S math one grade level ahead, will we be ok for standardized testing requirements? (IOWA etc.) 2) Did anybody complete R&S math through level 8 and then go onto algebra successfully? 3) If I supplemented with LoF (thinking we'd read through one level together during the summer. So, complete R&S1 this year, and then read the Apples book in summer...), would that cover some of the conceptual gaps in R&S? thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences! lfwfv

Hi all, I have two little guys, one just starting K at home. That said, i am a planner, and I am wanting to figure out a potential science progression (understanding long-term plans could very well change, but i at least want to understand what's reasonable). I love the look of BJU, but all the moving parts, time commitment, not to mention the cost, seem a bit heavy for elementary. That said, i'm not feeling comfortable with no curriculum for science either. I plan to continue reading a lot of living science books, but I also want a curriculum to follow. Does anybody know if i could use R&S science (love the gentleness of it, that we could use it as a spine for further studies, and the cost) and be prepared to switch to more rigorous BJU in 6th or 7th grade? Or, do I need to start BJU at the beginning in order to be prepared for their middle school/high school science. I definitely want to prepare my kids for STEM major if they end up being inclined that way. Heck, I am a professional musician, and I took AP Physics in 11th grade, so i definitely don't want to be "light" on science for them. thanks! lfwfv

Can't wait to see your completed work! Could you post a link to your blog? Can't seem to find a link... Thanks!

Thanks ALB! That is exactly what I was thinking...wwe plus r&s grammar AND writing for a (hopefully) complete program. I really like the specific instructions on good sentence construction, paragraphs, and the scope and sequence of the writing throughout the r&s program. I do think it looks like that, in combo with Susan's stuff, could work really well for our family, and for my goals for my kids. Time will tell, but your post encourages me to give it a try :)

Very helpful, thanks! I just realized that I am already planning on SOTW with activity guide, so I will have guided narrations with the WWE (covering lit-- I think i plan to use a lot of the lit she uses in WWE for our "free reading"/read aloud/non-history related reading choices), and also the SOTW. I also plan on using the Apologia science for younger grades which also includes narration, so yeah, I think we'll be ok. Good to hear R&S gets good reviews from everybody.

Incredibly helpful, thank you!!! I especially like to hear you did find the writing stuff in R&S helpful. I like the very incremental approach and also thought it might complement the WWE/WWS nicely, but then second-guessed myself when SWB says to skip the R&S comp stuff in the newest version of TWTM. I think, for my own piece of mind, I will use both the R&S and WWE as completely as we can (verbally if/when necessary to not overdo writing), and see how that works for us. As a teacher, it really appeals to my style...incremental, methodical, no frills... Thanks again for sharing your experience.

Thank you both for your helpful responses. So, I just looked at the Grade 2 R&S English again. It covers the following: Unit 1: Learning about sentences (complete sentences, statements, questions, upper case letters, punctuation etc.) Unit 2: Basic Building Block or Our Language (nouns/verbs) Unit 3: Pronouns Unit 4: More Building blocks of English Unit 5: Using our Language Unit Six: Building our vocabulary There is one poem covered at the end of each unit. It looks very incremental, lots of review, and like I could do a lot of it verbally. Does this look in line with first grade requirements in something like FLL or Shurley? I think i might just start the grade 2 in first grade then...my ds is not even four and already reading at a 1st to 2nd grade level, so I'm pretty sure, given he would be starting first grade two years from now, he'd be ready for it...

Thanks for the response! Do you mean to say you did not use the WWE workbook, and simply followed the recommendations of narration across the curriculum instead?

If you use the WWE workbook in first grade, do you also require narrations across the curriculum? I wish I felt comfortable just implementing the SWB guidelines across the curriculum since it would be a great aid in retention of the material, but after looking at the WWE workbook, I don't think i would do nearly as good a job of helping my dc to eventually learn to find the main points, come up with a concise narration etc. without the workbook prompts. Perhaps I could use the WWE workbook in lieu of literature narrations, but do one narration in science and one narration in history each week (so four total per week)? Also, has anybody jumped right into the grade 2 R&S grammar book instead of using FLL first? I was hoping to do this, but SWB seems to say this isn't a great idea from what I can see in TWTM4 so far. I like the format of R&S better than FLL, and they seemed to cover similar things, but maybe i'm missing something. Would love to hear from any BTDT homeschool moms. thanks!

I'm a professional violinist, and teach Suzuki violin (long-term Suzuki training through Book 10). Kids can absolutely do great with music from a young age but it is 90% up to the parents in terms of motivation/practice habits/patience/consistency. The process is slow, but incremental progress is consistent when daily practice is a habit, not unlike the process of rigor/progression outlined in the core subjects in WTM. I teach my own three year old, as well as a studio of students, and the most important thing really is consistency. Show up every day to practice with your kid. It doesn't have to be perfect- there will be smiles, there will be tears, there will be tantrums, there will be triumphs. Sometimes you'll get through 10 minutes, sometimes you'll easily do 30 minutes without losing focus. Listen to music, move to music, sing together and to him/her. Practice every day (or one day off per week if that fits your lifestyle/philosophy better). You don't see progress day to day, but after one year, two years etc. you will be in awe of how far you've come. Kids' motivation and enthusiasm waxes and wanes. As a parent, decide if music education is important to you, and then treat it like brushing teeth, doing math etc.. There will be resistance at times, but the joy will come too! Just do it. A little bit. Each day. Sprunger's book called "Helping Parents Practice" is awesome (buy through Shar music for a decent price).

Thank you all for your suggestions and thoughts! I really like the idea of the streams of civilization and then transitioning straight into SOTW. I think i'll just hold off until he's a bit older, and maybe read some historical fiction or something just to introduce some of the ideas/civilizations to him while I learn about it myself over the next year or two. Thanks again!

Hi, I am looking for a read-aloud, world history overview for my ds (preK) that I can read through a couple of times over the next few years. No narration or anything like that, just something where I can read a chapter per day, repeat the book several times over the course of a few years, and start giving him a general idea of some world history before we delve into SOTW when he's older. It will also serve as a way to self-educate for me :) So, I looked at Hillyer and it seemed perfect, until I stated reading it and realized that, it completely conflicts with my views of creation, and "pre-history", and Gombrich's world history has the same issue. I guess I could just skip the first several chapters, but I see that she continues to refer back to prehistoric times, stone age, bronze age etc. throughout the first part of the book, so it seems a little cumbersome to me. If my ds was a lot older, I would probably just use it and explain the difference in our beliefs, but I really don't think it's something I want to use as his first glimpse of "the beginning of history". Any tried and true resources out there for a world history for young kids, readable, and from a creationist viewpoint? many thanks! Tanya

Wow, thank you all so much! Tibbie Dunmar, that link is amazing and exactly what I'm looking for! having that list of "episodes" is the missing link for me I think. That makes it seem possible...and the reading and narration is right up my alley. Great! Thank you!

I am looking for a children's bible for ages 4-8ish that does not contain illustrations. Anybody know of any? I have an almost-four-year-old that is deathly afraid of the story of David and Goliath (sparked by a picture of a mean looking Goliath he saw nearly two years ago). This fear has been present from age 2.5 on and is so severe that he literally shakes and cries if we try to read him bible stories out of a children's bible. We are generally authoritative parents, but this fear is just incredibly real for him and has been present for a long time, and I don't see it abating soon, so we have ceased with children's bible readings. Since we believe in teaching our kids God's word at a young age, I have worked around this by purchasing a lot of the biblewise story books recommended by VP, and some I can read bible stories. We have worked through creation, read the full story of Moses, Elijah, Noah, Joshua, etc, have books about Jesus and miracles, Easter, Christmas etc. I choose one book and read it in it's entirety every day for a few weeks until he nearly has it memorized and we have discussed it, and then I move on. In a way I like this, because I feel like he is retaining the info and stories much more thoroughly than if we were reading new short bible stories every day, but at the same time, I feel like I want to be able to read through s children's bible in its entirety several times between the ages of 4-7. I don't know if what we are doing now will suffice for the next couple of years. I do have a kids adventure bible in the NIV and this ds is capable of understanding pretty advanced lit (currently obsessed with Milne's Winnie the Pooh), but I don't know if reading from a kids bible at age four is realistic? And will he retain anything if we just touch on each story? What does everyone do for bible in early elementary? I am mostly interested in him learning the stories right now, and getting a good grasp of Old Testament leading to Christ, Christ's life, teachings, miracles, death, resurrection, salvation etc. I don't care about it from an academic standpoint right now...I want to keep the Bible and Christ at the forefront. Not interested in "devotions" or character development really right now. I do like the look of something like Foundations Bible curriculum, but again, not sure if we are dealing with a kid old enough to be read to from a real bible? If there is a kids bible out there without pics if love to know!! We do also memorize scripture (knows probably 15 verses so far) and other important stuff like apostles creed, Ten Commandments, Lord's Prayer.... Please share experiences, resources etc. Thanks! Tanya

Thank you for the additional thoughts and responses. Things have been going much better the last couple of days...2 minutes of PP, and then a lot of reading in Bob Books or whatever else we have lying around that's appropriate. We are laughing and enjoying the stories together, which feels great, and he hasn't complained about the PP at all given it is super short. thanks again! Tanya

Thank you so much to all of you for responding and sharing your thoughts and experiences. The comments were all very helpful. I decided I am going to cut way back on the PP, and just stick to a couple minutes of it per day. I think i was doing too much...trying to use it to review, work on his current skills, and simultaneously progress him, and it was just too much list, after list, after list before we got to the Bob books. I am going to stick to 1/2-2 pages of PP per day (depending on the difficulty). That way, we'll get through it eventually and I can know he has that foundation under his belt, but I won't use it as my main method of progressing his reading right now. I think I'm going to use the Bob Books, followed by the book suggestions in 100EZ lessons, Treadwell and Pathway readers, and then move onto the I-Can-Read-type book series from the library. I will pre-screen them and make my index card word lists of new/hard words from him for each book. I think he will be able to tolerate the couple minutes of PP, which will satisfy my slightly-OCD need to know we are finishing a comprehensive phonics program, and then we will progress in his reading with the index card word lists and easy readers. At least, that's the plan I am going to try out for now.....haha And yes, we read to him a lot. I read a lengthy Biblewise storybook daily, we read some poems (AA Milne right now), read a novel or longer story of some sort, and then my dh reads to him a bit at night. He listens to books on tape during quiet time, and I read other random books and board books (I have an almost-one-year-old too) whenever we can throughout the day. I definitely don't plan out cutting out the read-alouds...probably until they are 20 :D Thank you all for indulging my craziness! Tanya

Hi all, I started 100EZ lessons with my son when he was 3.25. He loved it, especially the stories at the end of each day. He thought they were hilarious. He finished a few weeks ago, and after reading so many posts about needing to follow up with a comprehensive phonics program, I have started him on Phonics Pathways. He is really reading pretty well already (finished Bob books collection 1 and 2 from Costco, and is onto the final box). I am actually impressed with how many blends 100EZ lessons has already introduced. He is dreading Phonics Pathways :( I tend to try to do at least a page from the easy 2 or 3 letter blends to build fluency, and then skip over to the four letter words and/or somewhat newer material for him (lik the -y suffix) every day. After that, we work through a Bob book and are on Collection 3. He loves that part, and dangling that carrot of a Bob book is the only way I get him to finish PP. He helps me read books throughout the day a bit too, and reads signs etc. He is reading pretty well already, but a lot of the level 2 readers would still be a bit out of his reach I think (Frog and Toad etc.). I have ordered the first two Treadwell readers and Pathway readers from Amazon and plan to use those after we finish the Bob books. He will also continue to review Bob books for a while by reading them to my dh at night before my dh reads his bedtime books to him. I wanted to stick to Phonics Pathways to make sure that we 1) covered all of our phonics thoroughly, and b) got a lot of fluency practice in. I also looked at OPGTR, but it kind of annoyed me and didn't seem up my alley. Maybe I need to take another look.... Is it necessary to read all the word lists from Phonics Pathways to build fluency, or is it enough to read a lot of easy readers and use Phonics Pathways as a guide (for me, not every using it with him) to make sure I'm not missing any sounds/blends along the way? I do usually make an index card with words that some of the newer harder Bob books introduces and have him sound those out several times over a few days, and he doesn't seem to mind that. Ex. the book introduces "ou" (we covered that in 100EZ lessons too, but only on a couple of words, so I wanted him to see that it can be used in many different words), so I'll write out "mouse, house, out, our, foul, etc.", and then we read through those each time before we read the book (minimally four readings). Is that enough, or is something like Phonics Pathway really the only way to get this kind of thorough phonics practice in? He loves reading right now, but hates Phonics Pathway, and I want to find a way of progressing him that doesn't squelch his desire to continue to read. thanks! Tanya

Thank you both! I guess it makes sense that you only need to learn the mechanics of reading in one language. I guess I hadn't considered that... And then, I guess, once ds is readily fluidly and easily in English, I could just teach him the different sounds the letters in German make and then decode from there. At least German is so much easier to read than English! ha! Yes, I do speak German. I think I will likely just focus on speaking, singing, and reading out loud to him for the next while and see where we end up in the next year or two with that plan of attack. Maybe I'll even purchase the first level of either Spielerisch or Planetino to look at it (the samples online aren't enough to give me a clear overview), and then I can try to move us in the direction of being ready to start using one of those methods sometime between 1st-3rd grade. I appreciate your comments, thank you! Tanya

For those that have used these programs, do they cover how to read (ie. German phonics)? Is it assumed the child is speaking German and reading/writing somewhat before they begin Planetino? I am finding the Hueber website and even the help from customer service pretty confusing. I can't get a clear sense of the scope and sequence. Any German versions of Phonics Pathways? ha, might be a long shot... Also, if you used these materials, what ages were your kids when you started/finished, and what did you move onto next? I am just embarking on a home-made German curriculum (speaking it throughout our day, working on memorizing specific vocab/phrases/songs/numbers etc., reading German books etc.) with my almost-four-year-old, but I'm trying to figure out what we could use to help with reading/writing/grammar once he's a little older (maybe 1st-2nd grade?). He is already starting to read and write in English, so by first grade, I think he should have a decent handle on that in the English realm, and might be ready to add German in without confusion. Thanks! Tanya

Hi again everyone, Thank you all so much for the thoughts and shared experiences and knowledge! I actually started trying to speak German to my kids this weekend and was pleasantly surprised to find I can talk almost completely fluently still. I guess hearing German at holidays with my family and reading and translating the odd thing for my engineer husband has done more to keep me in shape than i thought. I also realized that my daily language with the kids is not especially challenging, and it's not like I need to be explaining world issues to them in German at this point (which is where I ended up with my education path). I think i was panicking for nothing, ha! So, I think my plan will be something like the following: 1) Read and listen to Deutsche Welle a bit each day to keep my skills up, and get some easy grammar drill books on Amazon to brush up on some of the Grammar rules as I'm able to. 2) Buy a few German kid's books and start reading minimally one German book to them per day (probably repeating it a few times). Add to the library every month or two. 3) Speak German throughout our entire day. Intersperse German and English, a lot of repetition, translate for my three year old as necessary. I think I can easily amass 1+ hours per day of German language just in our everyday conversation, not to mention adding in books and songs. 4) Do some specific memory work with the kids to learn days of the week, counting, months etc. in German. 5) Teach the kids German songs, and listen to a German CD each day. 6) Probably starting in Kindergarten (maybe even sometime in PreK), I think we will work through the Speilerish Deutsch levels Vorschule, 1,2, and 3, and then probably Planetino, and then we'll be ready for some more challenging materials in middle school. The curriculum plan is loose right now...will see how things progress, and am going to connect with Hueber and try to get a clearer recommendation from their customer service in terms of a good progression through their materials. But, the samples online look good. So, focusing on conversation and reading for now, then adding in a curriculum around K or the end of preK to fill in the blanks a bit. I'm excited... :) thanks! Tanya

I would love more info Mom2Bee! Resources would be awesome. I read the Usborne book for German words had a lot of errors in terms of der, die, das, so I was shying away. Thoughts on that? Ok, so, my objectives... As a long-term project, it would be to have kids that graduate high school with decent speaking/comprehension skills in German. Not necessarily completely fluent, but a good understanding of it, and decent spoken language. Is it really possible to just jump into talking German for 30 minutes per day with my 3.75 year old, who'd never been exposed to it? Would I translate along the way? I know my grammar might be a bit rough right now (I can start reading Deutsche Welle, some books, and working through some grammar drills to brush up, but I know it would be imperfect, and I can't devote huge amounts of time to this right now). Is it worth it just to start exposing them to it, even if my own German is a bit imperfect right now? I hesitate to do a super specific circle time at this point, but i'm open to considering it. Right now, I already teach him violin (I'm a professional violinist myself), he is learning to read (almost done 100EZ lessons, and working on Bob Books), and we spend some time daily on pencil skills and fine motor skills (coloring, dot to dot, writing letters and numbers, writing his name, coloring, cutting etc....one or two tasks per day). We fill "empty air" time with a lot of talking and discussing, read-alouds, listening to good music, and memorizing Bible verses and counting. I feel like i'm already leaning towards "overkill". So, if we add German, I need it to be something doable and fun and not more "schoolwork". I could see allotting 30 minutes to German only time, where I just switch out our usual English conversation and book reading to German. So, we read in German and I converse with him in German about our daily happenings, without actually making it some formal learning thing. Maybe adding a CD of German songs or nursery rhymes, but i don't think I could handle much more than that. I would like to formally learn the language with them as well, which is why i was asking about currriculum. Is Hueber a good resource? I like the look of the Spielerisch Deutsch (maybe even as Prek4?), and then maybe Planetino? So, I guess, i"m looking for them to learn a second language, and for it to be as painless as possible for me, hence my leaning towards German. I am not necessarily interested in them being truly bilingual (just semi-fluent...able to understand pretty well, and able to converse somewhat), and I am not looking to add a lot of stress or additional work to our days at this point in their young lives. It would have to be something easy to integrate/use. I tend to go overboard when i get a goal in my head, and I don't want to turn this into another overwhelming project with extremely high expectations. I figure if we start now, and use curriculum along the way, we should be able to get through German at a high school level without too much trouble? thanks! Tanya

Hi, I am just starting on this homeschool journey. I have two boys, and my oldest is only 3.75 years old, so we are just starting to chart our course, and decide on a direction for PreK and K. I am leaning towards German (instead of Latin and/or Spanish) as our second language. I grew up speaking German, was in a bilingual school my entire life, my extended family and parents speak German, and I completed the Sprachdiplom successfully in twelfth grade. I haven't used my German speaking skills much at all in the last 15 years, so I don't feel confident just speaking it to my kids at this point (at least, not as their only form of instruction). I don't want to jump into a curriculum that will be over my little guy's head, but I also want to take advantage of this early-childhood window where I might still be able to help him develop an appropriate German accent, develop an ear for good grammar (of course, fleshing out the actual grammar mechanics once he is older) etc.. Is there a curriculum for this? I am wondering if I could just start introducing 3-4 vocab words per week (Das Auto, die Frau etc.), learn the German alphabet, learn to count, and maybe get 2-3 easy German picture books that we can read over and over for a few months, and then add in some more (any suggestions? and where to buy them?). Would that suffice for the next few years? And then what? Is there a good early elementary curriculum for German? I glanced at Das neue Deustchmobil but that seems geared to kids in at least 3rd grade or so i would think? And Fabuli is by the same publisher, but I'm not really sure if that is intended to come before Deutschmobil? All seems kind of confusing on their website... thanks! Tanya