Thank you Lynn! Yes, I have thought more about it and I think I want to keep things really simple...memorize the timeline (without the song, for exactly the reason you state....I just want to chant the list of events in order and skip all the extras that are in the song. That way, we can just tack on the next 32 cards/events to our recitation list and eventually just chant the whole timeline from all five card sets). I think, for the grammar stage, I'm just going to read the card and discuss it, and then read a bunch of books about each topic and look at the map/globe. We might do the odd narration page ala WTM, but mostly just memorize the timeline, read a bunch and discuss. We love love love reading, and I want my kids to love exploring and learning about history. I am thinking that memorizing the timeline will serve the point of making sure they are retaining something long-term. I was looking at the TruthQuest guides, and though I don't want to use them, reading through some of the comments helped me realize that it really might be enough just to memorize the timeline and read/discuss living books. Simple, enjoyable, flexible, and maybe even (hopefully) very effective. For logic stage, I envision continuing to reinforce the timeline memory so it's something they retain long-term, and then fleshing it out with more resources, maybe some more writing, higher-level readings, and some outlining etc.. Basically, using WTM methods with the cards as a spine instead of something like SOTW. Thank you for your thoughts!

Yes, thanks Angie! I guess I'm just wondering if fleshing the VP history cards out by using them as the spine in a WTM-style history approach (and not using VP's worksheet/test route) has worked for anybody else. We do have the song CD too, though i think we might just learn the timeline as a chant instead of the song....thanks!

Hi, I am preparing for my first history cycle with my soon-to-be-first-grader. I really like the four-year history cycle, and I had planned for SOTW as our spine, but for multiple reasons, we are realizing it is not the right fit for our family. I have the first set of VP history timeline cards and am thinking we might be able to use their cards as a basis for a four-year cycle. That said, I am not liking VP's teacher manual and the emphasis on worksheets, quizzes...dull info. And it certainly feels like overkill for a first grader (I know it's intended for grade 2+). I do have some of the resources they list on the back of their cards, and I want to keep this fun for my 6 year old. We do a good chunk of math and English and other things already each day, so I want history to be primarily fun and not super time intensive. A lot of read-alouds and looking at pictures and encyclopedias together. I will plan on memorizing the timeline as our "retention help", but other than that, I want to keep it fun and to eliminate any unnecessary work/preparation (and moving parts). VP as written seems very awkward, time intensive, and somewhat dull...and we don't want to do the online program, so no need to suggest that. I am thinking we could memorize the timeline from all 5 sets of card for our "grammar stage history memory". We would cover the timeline over the course of five years (so, about 40ish cards per year I think?), and other than memorizing the timeline, we would just read (maybe with some informal oral narration) extra books and looking at maps (I don't like the map from the TM for VP...). I am thinking we could then cycle through history using the cards as our spine again in the logic years (and continuing to review our memorized timeline), and fleshing it out by reading more in depth encyclopedias and using the outlining practices from WTM. So, I guess I'm wondering, has anybody used the VP cards in this way and had success? TIA!

Hi, I have been using R&S math grade 1 for my 5 year old, but am wondering if this is a good program for us to continue long-term. I feel he needs the step by step instruction, repetition, and I love the concept of detailed, thorough teaching and the simple mastery approach. It is a little tedious with all the drill, and he is not a fan of how long all of it takes, but he is definitely retaining and gaining mastery. I have lightly considered CLE, but when I look at the samples, I feel like it is so all over the map with the spiral approach, and it also seems like they cover a ton of stuff very early but at a much more surfacy level that I am not sure is going to work for my ds (or me, quite frankly....I'm all about mastering at a deep level). I am concerned that R&S math is not going to lend itself to us doing well on standardized tests, and that it will not prepare our kids for a STEM focus if that's where they end up getting to. Some people say only conceptual math approaches are relevant these days. My dh is an electrical engineer and argues that the math facts are key to doing more complex math later, but I'm just not sure we don't need a more conceptual approach even at these younger years. So, my questions are particularly for those with experience with R&S and moving on to high school level math or completing standardized testing.... 1) If I plan on using R&S math one grade level ahead, will we be ok for standardized testing requirements? (IOWA etc.) 2) Did anybody complete R&S math through level 8 and then go onto algebra successfully? 3) If I supplemented with LoF (thinking we'd read through one level together during the summer. So, complete R&S1 this year, and then read the Apples book in summer...), would that cover some of the conceptual gaps in R&S? thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences! lfwfv

Hi all, I have two little guys, one just starting K at home. That said, i am a planner, and I am wanting to figure out a potential science progression (understanding long-term plans could very well change, but i at least want to understand what's reasonable). I love the look of BJU, but all the moving parts, time commitment, not to mention the cost, seem a bit heavy for elementary. That said, i'm not feeling comfortable with no curriculum for science either. I plan to continue reading a lot of living science books, but I also want a curriculum to follow. Does anybody know if i could use R&S science (love the gentleness of it, that we could use it as a spine for further studies, and the cost) and be prepared to switch to more rigorous BJU in 6th or 7th grade? Or, do I need to start BJU at the beginning in order to be prepared for their middle school/high school science. I definitely want to prepare my kids for STEM major if they end up being inclined that way. Heck, I am a professional musician, and I took AP Physics in 11th grade, so i definitely don't want to be "light" on science for them. thanks! lfwfv

Can't wait to see your completed work! Could you post a link to your blog? Can't seem to find a link... Thanks!

Thanks ALB! That is exactly what I was thinking...wwe plus r&s grammar AND writing for a (hopefully) complete program. I really like the specific instructions on good sentence construction, paragraphs, and the scope and sequence of the writing throughout the r&s program. I do think it looks like that, in combo with Susan's stuff, could work really well for our family, and for my goals for my kids. Time will tell, but your post encourages me to give it a try :)

Very helpful, thanks! I just realized that I am already planning on SOTW with activity guide, so I will have guided narrations with the WWE (covering lit-- I think i plan to use a lot of the lit she uses in WWE for our "free reading"/read aloud/non-history related reading choices), and also the SOTW. I also plan on using the Apologia science for younger grades which also includes narration, so yeah, I think we'll be ok. Good to hear R&S gets good reviews from everybody.

Incredibly helpful, thank you!!! I especially like to hear you did find the writing stuff in R&S helpful. I like the very incremental approach and also thought it might complement the WWE/WWS nicely, but then second-guessed myself when SWB says to skip the R&S comp stuff in the newest version of TWTM. I think, for my own piece of mind, I will use both the R&S and WWE as completely as we can (verbally if/when necessary to not overdo writing), and see how that works for us. As a teacher, it really appeals to my style...incremental, methodical, no frills... Thanks again for sharing your experience.

Thank you both for your helpful responses. So, I just looked at the Grade 2 R&S English again. It covers the following: Unit 1: Learning about sentences (complete sentences, statements, questions, upper case letters, punctuation etc.) Unit 2: Basic Building Block or Our Language (nouns/verbs) Unit 3: Pronouns Unit 4: More Building blocks of English Unit 5: Using our Language Unit Six: Building our vocabulary There is one poem covered at the end of each unit. It looks very incremental, lots of review, and like I could do a lot of it verbally. Does this look in line with first grade requirements in something like FLL or Shurley? I think i might just start the grade 2 in first grade then...my ds is not even four and already reading at a 1st to 2nd grade level, so I'm pretty sure, given he would be starting first grade two years from now, he'd be ready for it...

Thanks for the response! Do you mean to say you did not use the WWE workbook, and simply followed the recommendations of narration across the curriculum instead?

If you use the WWE workbook in first grade, do you also require narrations across the curriculum? I wish I felt comfortable just implementing the SWB guidelines across the curriculum since it would be a great aid in retention of the material, but after looking at the WWE workbook, I don't think i would do nearly as good a job of helping my dc to eventually learn to find the main points, come up with a concise narration etc. without the workbook prompts. Perhaps I could use the WWE workbook in lieu of literature narrations, but do one narration in science and one narration in history each week (so four total per week)? Also, has anybody jumped right into the grade 2 R&S grammar book instead of using FLL first? I was hoping to do this, but SWB seems to say this isn't a great idea from what I can see in TWTM4 so far. I like the format of R&S better than FLL, and they seemed to cover similar things, but maybe i'm missing something. Would love to hear from any BTDT homeschool moms. thanks!

I'm a professional violinist, and teach Suzuki violin (long-term Suzuki training through Book 10). Kids can absolutely do great with music from a young age but it is 90% up to the parents in terms of motivation/practice habits/patience/consistency. The process is slow, but incremental progress is consistent when daily practice is a habit, not unlike the process of rigor/progression outlined in the core subjects in WTM. I teach my own three year old, as well as a studio of students, and the most important thing really is consistency. Show up every day to practice with your kid. It doesn't have to be perfect- there will be smiles, there will be tears, there will be tantrums, there will be triumphs. Sometimes you'll get through 10 minutes, sometimes you'll easily do 30 minutes without losing focus. Listen to music, move to music, sing together and to him/her. Practice every day (or one day off per week if that fits your lifestyle/philosophy better). You don't see progress day to day, but after one year, two years etc. you will be in awe of how far you've come. Kids' motivation and enthusiasm waxes and wanes. As a parent, decide if music education is important to you, and then treat it like brushing teeth, doing math etc.. There will be resistance at times, but the joy will come too! Just do it. A little bit. Each day. Sprunger's book called "Helping Parents Practice" is awesome (buy through Shar music for a decent price).

Thank you all for your suggestions and thoughts! I really like the idea of the streams of civilization and then transitioning straight into SOTW. I think i'll just hold off until he's a bit older, and maybe read some historical fiction or something just to introduce some of the ideas/civilizations to him while I learn about it myself over the next year or two. Thanks again!

Hi, I am looking for a read-aloud, world history overview for my ds (preK) that I can read through a couple of times over the next few years. No narration or anything like that, just something where I can read a chapter per day, repeat the book several times over the course of a few years, and start giving him a general idea of some world history before we delve into SOTW when he's older. It will also serve as a way to self-educate for me :) So, I looked at Hillyer and it seemed perfect, until I stated reading it and realized that, it completely conflicts with my views of creation, and "pre-history", and Gombrich's world history has the same issue. I guess I could just skip the first several chapters, but I see that she continues to refer back to prehistoric times, stone age, bronze age etc. throughout the first part of the book, so it seems a little cumbersome to me. If my ds was a lot older, I would probably just use it and explain the difference in our beliefs, but I really don't think it's something I want to use as his first glimpse of "the beginning of history". Any tried and true resources out there for a world history for young kids, readable, and from a creationist viewpoint? many thanks! Tanya