Poll: Illegal downloading movies/TV shows

[nmoira]

This is a spin-off from another thread. I was rather surprised to read about someone referring to downloading movies off the Internet in a very offhand way, as if this was an acceptable activity. I'm curious about what other people think about this. This is an anonymous poll.

[Kris]

I don't know what other thread you're referring to -- but illegal is illegal. I have the same policy with regard to copying and trading music CDs, etc. My son's friends still don't understand why I am adamant about this.

[Peek a Boo]

i voted other.

 

I don't do it because *I* have questions about its legality, and i want those clarified first. I do realize tho that copyright laws vary from country to country, and the internet is a huge area that is tough to ascertain legally --esp when you have sites coming FROM those other countries.

 

So I would love to hear from someone who's researched the global copyright issues and looked into exactly what it is that is being disseminated and downloaded. And I do know that different sites are going to offer different products --some illegal.

 

I guess the next poll would be copying curriculum ;)

[dawn of ns]

I'm in Canada where downloading (although uploading isn't) is still legal and yes, I do it. If it was illeagal I'd probably still do it, after ll, every time I download something I'm also uploading and so breaking the law anyway.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

There should be no questions about it. When you illegally download music or movies you are stealing someone else's property. It's stealing. It's the same thing as hiring a clown for your kid's birthday party and not paying him, or sneaking into the movies.

[elegantlion]

There should be no questions about it. When you illegally download music or movies you are stealing someone else's property. It's stealing. It's the same thing as hiring a clown for your kid's birthday party and not paying him, or sneaking into the movies.

 

 

:iagree:

[dawn of ns]

There should be no questions about it. When you illegally download music or movies you are stealing someone else's property. It's stealing.

 

You are not stealing anyone's property. You are making a digital copy of someone else's copy. Where the theft occurs, and this is a matter for debate, is in revenue from the copyright holder and the distributer. The argument is that downloaders, if they weren't downloading, would otherwise be out buying legal copies.

 

It's the same thing as hiring a clown for your kid's birthday party and not paying him, or sneaking into the movies.

 

The second analogy is close in some respects but not the first. It's more as if you dressed up like said clown and performed his act at your party rather then hiring him. If, instead of buying a Mickey Mouse doll for your child you took a close look at the design and sewed a replica to give your child. If instead of buying the designer dress you made yourself a copy.

 

The argument might be made that it's as unethical as stealing but it's not the same thing as stealing by any stretch.

[st_claire]

Firstly, there are many different types of downloading. I feel that if I pay for cable, and want to download a show that I get on tv anyways (so I can watch it later or on my computer) then its ok. I already paid the cable company for the show, and I don't watch commercials on tv (i usually switch to another channel during commercial time).

 

There are also several arguments why downloading makes good business sense. If I download a show that's no longer on tv, and I like it, I will buy the dvds. If I never got to see it, there is no way I would have bought the dvds. If I download a movie that I like, then the next time that studio/director/actor (whatever parts I liked) make a film, I will want to go see it in theater. Companies would do well to stop wasting their time and money on copy protection and use it to make better quality or lower cost products IMO.

[mazakaal]

I'm really confused about this. I don't allow dc to download movies or music from the internet because it seems like stealing to me. I don't really know the legality of it all. We sometimes watch tv shows on-line. I assume that watching Monk from the USA network web site is fine since it's their show. I question whether it's okay to watch Monk (or some other show) on YouTube. And on YouTube I see adds for other sites where you can download tv shows. Is this legal? If not, why is it so accesible? Why is it not shut down?

[kalanamak]

I don't watch TV and don't download anything from the internet, but I will generalize from books and music. IF something is unavailable because the owner won't put it out, and I find a, say, library copy of it, or borrow from a friend, I have no qualms about copying it. I'm not happy I can't find some Teeny Weenies to show my son. If I could borrow one, I would copy it. I have not been pleased a folk band (Pearls Before Swine) has not had some of their works rereleased, and when I come upon any of that, I copy it. These are things I would buy in a heartbeat if I could.

 

Sometimes people are waiting for a thing to go up in value, some inheritors are cranky so and so's, sometimes the rights are caught up in a feud, sometimes corporations buy it up and mothball it so it won't compete with their cheaper product (Proctor and Gamble did this with my favourtie shampoo...Vidal Sassoon). This gets my goat.

 

I am also willing, although it has been years, to put a "sampler" of non-standard music together for someone who might be interested enough in then buying some of that music, thereby fueling demand. I find most radio stations play the same stuff over and over. How else are people to hear this stuff? It benefits all.

[rockermom]

There should be no questions about it. When you illegally download music or movies you are stealing someone else's property. It's stealing. It's the same thing as hiring a clown for your kid's birthday party and not paying him, or sneaking into the movies.

 

It's true. I have several friends who used to make their living(s) as studio musicians in Nashville, but the work is harder and harder to come by due to severe drops in record sales. I would assume it's the same with the film/software industries. Don't just think of the big stars and say, "Well, they make enough money, anyway." There are lots of people who live middle class and below in those industries as well.

 

It is stealing someone else's creation, time and effort (much the same as stealing an artist's painting from their studio). End of story.

[Kris]

I'm really confused about this. I don't allow dc to download movies or music from the internet because it seems like stealing to me. I don't really know the legality of it all. We sometimes watch tv shows on-line. I assume that watching Monk from the USA network web site is fine since it's their show. I question whether it's okay to watch Monk (or some other show) on YouTube. And on YouTube I see adds for other sites where you can download tv shows. Is this legal? If not, why is it so accesible? Why is it not shut down?

 

The key word, to me, in the thread title is "illegal."

 

There are plenty of things available -- tv shows, movies, music -- that are perfectly *legal* to download because the people that own the rights to that have offered it up. I have no qualms about watching this stuff -- as a matter of fact I was thrilled to find the new CSI episode on CBS.com because I missed it Thursday night. I just noticed the other day that the Internet Movie Database has some things available there, too. If you go to the USA Network site and they have episodes of Monk available then yes, they're offering this and it's their choice.

 

But if you go to "WarezKidsOnline" and download movies or music, you pretty much have to know it's a "bad thing."

 

YouTube is pretty good about removing copyrighted material when it's reported to them, and reputable web hosts will do the same.

 

But when you're talking about downloading things from binary newsgroups, or Bit Torrent, or warez sites that are clearly offering copyrighted material, or copying books or CDs for you or your friends -- that's just wrong, and there's no rationalizing it.

 

I'd also like to throw in here that someone who is unethical enough to offer copyrighted material for download on the internet -- whether it's movies, music, or software -- will also have no problem sticking a nasty little virus or two in there for your further enjoyment. ;)

[dawn of ns]

It's true. I have several friends who used to make their living(s) as studio musicians in Nashville, but the work is harder and harder to come by due to severe drops in record sales. I would assume it's the same with the film/software industries. Don't just think of the big stars and say, "Well, they make enough money, anyway." There are lots of people who live middle class and below in those industries as well.

 

It is stealing someone else's creation, time and effort (much the same as stealing an artist's painting from their studio). End of story.

 

There are artists, like The Barenaked Ladies, who favour downloading. It expands their audience and fanbase and sells tickets when they're touring. It builds audiences for some smaller artists who otherwise can't get distribution.

 

This harms artists because of the business model of entertainment industries, a business model that mosly rewards the distribution companies. Some artists are changing that model through downloading and I think it might be interesting to see where they go.

[ma23peas]

My husband pays for a monthly service and we can download whatever is in their 'vault'...we also have Tivo...we copy programs that are playing on any of the 40 movie channels that come with our cable programming and we just put in our titles of movies we'd like to tape..we don't sell them and we just use them for home entertainment....

 

I'm not sure of the loopholes in the system...but, usually over time they correct themselves...I was strongly against burning music 10 years ago under these same guises....now you can pay 95cents and get it added to your playlist..I think the same thing will happen..but I am a stickler for if it's not approved of by the makers of the movies/music, and you're avoiding paying that 95cent fee..then I think it's wrong...

 

Tara

[dawn of ns]

I'd also like to throw in here that someone who is unethical enough to offer copyrighted material for download on the internet -- whether it's movies, music, or software -- will also have no problem sticking a nasty little virus or two in there for your further enjoyment. ;)

 

No. I think it's a mistake to label the downloading community as a whole as unethical. Many see the sharing of information many people would otherwise have no access to as a very ethical activity - it's legality beside the point as legal certainly doesn't equal ethical. It's a dangerous mistake to substitute law for ethics.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

Okay, I don't download music or movies and don't think its okay. I'll go ahead and pay the buck or whatever to get my songs from itunes. This works out better for me anyway, because I rarely want the whole album.

On the other hand, I have stored all our old CD's to our computer so we can have them on our ipods. Is this illegal? We own the original CD's we just don't have portable CD players and we also play them through our computer. I guess I kinda thought that making a copy for our own, private use was okay but now I wonder. But, I'm not going to delete the hundreds of CDs off our computer....I love the orginazation.

[Kris]

No. I think it's a mistake to label the downloading community as a whole as unethical. Many see the sharing of information many people would otherwise have no access to as a very ethical activity - it's legality beside the point as legal certainly doesn't equal ethical. It's a dangerous mistake to substitute law for ethics.

 

We're not talking about "information" -- we're talking about tangible goods and services. If you can't walk out of the store with it in your pocket without setting off an alarm, it's stealing.

[Kris]

Okay, I don't download music or movies and don't think its okay. I'll go ahead and pay the buck or whatever to get my songs from itunes. This works out better for me anyway, because I rarely want the whole album.

On the other hand, I have stored all our old CD's to our computer so we can have them on our ipods. Is this illegal? We own the original CD's we just don't have portable CD players and we also play them through our computer. I guess I kinda thought that making a copy for our own, private use was okay but now I wonder. But, I'm not going to delete the hundreds of CDs off our computer....I love the orginazation.

 

As far as I know, you *can* make a copy of a CD for your own personal use. I don't know if this has changed or not. What you can't do is burn copies for your friends and neighbors. But, like I said, there may have been some changes that I haven't kept up with.

[nmoira]

 

As far as I know, you *can* make a copy of a CD for your own personal use.

Yes, in the US it's perfectly legal to put it into, say, iTunes and/or an iPod. I believe most other countries have now passed Tivo/iPod type amendments to their copyright codes as well. The key phrase is "for personal use." Can someone confirm that if law was changed in the UK?

[nmoira]

 

My husband pays for a monthly service and we can download whatever is in their 'vault'

Which service is this? We have a mac, so can't use Netflix instant view. I'm interested in alternatives.

[Deidre in GA]

i have downloaded tv shows if, and only if, the shows are not available online. i've paid for episodes of Lost that i've missed. i watch online even if it means sitting through online commericials. but sometimes a show i like is not popular enough, i guess, to make it available online - those i will try to find. the only ones i can think of i did this for were The Bionic Woman, and the original Law & Order series. last season L&O did an episode on the "foot tapping bathroom politician." L&O isn't online and for some reason, though they repeated episodes MANY times last season, this one never repeated. and i could never find a torrent of it because i didn't know the episode number.

 

i pay for all downloaded music.

[Deidre in GA]

Which service is this? We have a mac, so can't use Netflix instant view. I'm interested in alternatives.

 

Netflix has partnered with Roku to work with a set-top device connected to your TV that downloads or streams the movie.

 

Netflix Roku

 

they have also given indications that streaming to macs may be coming by the end of the year.

[nmoira]

Netflix has partnered with Roku to work with a set-top device connected to your TV that downloads or streams the movie.

 

Netflix Roku

 

they have also given indications that streaming to macs may be coming by the end of the year.

Thanks. I knew about Roku, but not the other news. Crossing my fingers. :)

[Peek a Boo]

The key word, to me, in the thread title is "illegal."

 

There are plenty of things available -- tv shows, movies, music -- that are perfectly *legal* to download because the people that own the rights to that have offered it up. I have no qualms about watching this stuff -- as a matter of fact I was thrilled to find the new CSI episode on CBS.com because I missed it Thursday night. I just noticed the other day that the Internet Movie Database has some things available there, too. If you go to the USA Network site and they have episodes of Monk available then yes, they're offering this and it's their choice.

 

But if you go to "WarezKidsOnline" and download movies or music, you pretty much have to know it's a "bad thing."

 

YouTube is pretty good about removing copyrighted material when it's reported to them, and reputable web hosts will do the same.

 

But when you're talking about downloading things from binary newsgroups, or Bit Torrent, or warez sites that are clearly offering copyrighted material, or copying books or CDs for you or your friends -- that's just wrong, and there's no rationalizing it.

 

I'd also like to throw in here that someone who is unethical enough to offer copyrighted material for download on the internet -- whether it's movies, music, or software -- will also have no problem sticking a nasty little virus or two in there for your further enjoyment. ;)

 

and for me, I would want more info about which sites/products are being operated/offered illegally and why. I'm not going to assume that since most people are paying for a product then anyone else who gets that product w/o paying is "stealing" --that doesn't necessarily match up. There are plenty of loopholes in contracts and domestic/foreign law that allow legal distribution of a particular version of a product that may or may not have full copyright protection. That's where I'm curious --I want to KNOW the law is really being broken.

 

The spin off took a comment that wasn't necessarily an illegal action and assumed an illegality. I would want to see exactly how it is illegal and why, taking into account the questions i brought up. that little thing called proof ;)

 

I do find it interesting that we each tend to have our ideas of which laws need to be obeyed and which we would be willing to break: copyright laws, speeding, seatbelts, illegal immigration, abortion, etc. That sounds like new thread material tho.

[chaik76]

Okay, I don't download music or movies and don't think its okay. I'll go ahead and pay the buck or whatever to get my songs from itunes. This works out better for me anyway, because I rarely want the whole album.

On the other hand, I have stored all our old CD's to our computer so we can have them on our ipods. Is this illegal? We own the original CD's we just don't have portable CD players and we also play them through our computer. I guess I kinda thought that making a copy for our own, private use was okay but now I wonder. But, I'm not going to delete the hundreds of CDs off our computer....I love the orginazation.

Nope, this isn't illegal at all (although there are people who would like to make it illegal).

[tibbyl]

There should be no questions about it. When you illegally download music or movies you are stealing someone else's property. It's stealing. It's the same thing as hiring a clown for your kid's birthday party and not paying him, or sneaking into the movies.

 

We subscribe to Rhapsody for music needs and Netflix for videos.

 

I have watched clips of TV excerpts on youtube.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

Nope, this isn't illegal at all (although there are people who would like to make it illegal).

okay, good. Although I wasn't going to loose any sleep over it! :)

[Rhonda in TX]

They download movies and books from the internet. And yes, it is illegal. They KNOW it's illegal and they don't care.

 

They also copy movies, CDs, and even video games (they have some gadget that allows them to do this for Xbox). They belong to Netflix (or maybe Blockbuster) and it's just ridiculous. They get a movie, copy it, and put it right back in the mail to get a new movie. They have literally hundreds of movies they have copied this way.

 

We went to visit this past summer and I was really struggling with what to do about watching movies. She knows how I feel, though, and we rented any movies we watched, or only watched the ones they had bought.

 

I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but this is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

[nmoira]

 

I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but this is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

I'm not at all offended. :) I do think that illegal doesn't necessarily mean ethically or morally wrong. However, I cannot rationalize downloading movies, songs, etc. without a mechanism to pay the artist as being anything but stealing. Yes, I know the RIAA in particular supports a corrupt system in which artists, by and large, are underpaid for their work. However, I'm still taking something (even if it's a too-small-something) from the artist or legal rights holder if I don't pay for the product. I do hope that alternate distribution channels open up new ways for artists to get their work to the public. But my question was about movies/TV shows, which, while still about artists' rights, is also very much about backers' rights because of the costs associated with movie production.

[missplacedalaskan]

SO...if we watch TV shows on hulu.com is that a "part" of this question? I have been watching a couple shows on Hulu, didn't even consider that it might be illegal. Am I doing something wrong using this site?

[nmoira]

 

SO...if we watch TV shows on hulu.com is that a "part" of this question? I have been watching a couple shows on Hulu, didn't even consider that it might be illegal. Am I doing something wrong using this site?

AFAIK, Hulu is completely legal. It's run by News Corp and NBC.

[MyBlueLobsters]

I have a question...not being at all snarky...this has been convicting me recently.

 

For all of you who are so against this for being illegal, do you ALWAYS stay at or below the speed limit? Every time your speedomoter rises above the posted speed limit, you are breaking the law by breaking the speed limit. So is your reason for saying this is so wrong is that you think it is a worse illegal offense or that some laws are okay to break and others aren't?

 

We download off a site that is called "Graboid.com" and they claim it's legal....:confused:

[nmoira]

I have a question...not being at all snarky...this has been convicting me recently.

 

For all of you who are so against this for being illegal, do you ALWAYS stay at or below the speed limit? Every time your speedomoter rises above the posted speed limit, you are breaking the law by breaking the speed limit. So is your reason for saying this is so wrong is that you think it is a worse illegal offense or that some laws are okay to break and others aren't?

 

We download off a site that is called "Graboid.com" and they claim it's legal....:confused:

 

There's an ethical component as well. You'll notice the poll says "and I think it's OK" or "I do not think it's OK." I don't think it's a problem because it's illegal; I think it's a problem because it is stealing. We have a multi-region DVD player, and I purchase movies and TV shows from overseas. It's not technically legal to do this. While I'm pretty sure it's not explicitly illegal (more of a grey area), it might be. However, I have no ethical concerns because because the rights holders are getting paid. [These are all materials not available for sale in the US -- if they were available in the US, it might be cheating the US rights holder.]

[elegantlion]

I have a question...not being at all snarky...this has been convicting me recently.

 

For all of you who are so against this for being illegal, do you ALWAYS stay at or below the speed limit? Every time your speedomoter rises above the posted speed limit, you are breaking the law by breaking the speed limit. So is your reason for saying this is so wrong is that you think it is a worse illegal offense or that some laws are okay to break and others aren't?

 

We download off a site that is called "Graboid.com" and they claim it's legal....:confused:

 

When you speed you do not deprive others from money they earned to create something.

 

Yes, I think speeding is just as illegal and therefore do not speed either. Yes, I am the loon that you pass on the interstate doing 60 in a 60.

 

I do not make copies from books that do not allow copies either.

[Kris]

I have a question...not being at all snarky...this has been convicting me recently.

 

For all of you who are so against this for being illegal, do you ALWAYS stay at or below the speed limit? Every time your speedomoter rises above the posted speed limit, you are breaking the law by breaking the speed limit. So is your reason for saying this is so wrong is that you think it is a worse illegal offense or that some laws are okay to break and others aren't?

 

We download off a site that is called "Graboid.com" and they claim it's legal....:confused:

 

I don't equate stealing with speeding, though some might. And no, I don't speed either, but not because it's stealing. I don't interface well with authority figures. Doing the speed limit avoids all that -- not to mention the cost.

[nmoira]

 

We download off a site that is called "Graboid.com" and they claim it's legal....:confused:

I don't know if it's technically legal or not (Graboid and similar services do not store any content, they only point you to content elsewhere). However, if you use it to find/download copyrighted materials, I would say it's unethical because the copyright holders are not getting paid.

[Audrey]

This is a spin-off from another thread. I was rather surprised to read about someone referring to downloading movies off the Internet in a very offhand way, as if this was an acceptable activity. I'm curious about what other people think about this. This is an anonymous poll.

 

I put no, I don't do it.

 

It IS stealing, no matter how you may choose to white-wash it or justify it.

 

As a witch, I have more personal morality than to become a common thief.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I have a question...not being at all snarky...this has been convicting me recently.

 

For all of you who are so against this for being illegal, do you ALWAYS stay at or below the speed limit? Every time your speedomoter rises above the posted speed limit, you are breaking the law by breaking the speed limit. So is your reason for saying this is so wrong is that you think it is a worse illegal offense or that some laws are okay to break and others aren't?

 

Yeah, I always try to stay 5 miles within the limit. #1 it's safer and #2 it saves fuel. Illegally downloading music isn't just stealing from the artists, it's stealing from the production company and the distribution company- right down to the the people who work in S&R.

 

Of course stealing is against the 10 Commandments and all that, but what inspires me not to steal music is thinking about the people that worked for my dad's distribution company for next to nothing picking orders and packing boxes.

 

If I speed, and I get caught, I will have to pay a fine. Get caught illegally downloading and you will pay a lot more than you would if you got a speeding ticket.

[nmoira]

 

Which service is this? We have a mac, so can't use Netflix instant view. I'm interested in alternatives.

Bumping this question in case ma23peas didn't see it earlier. :)

[Rhonda in TX]

I have a question...not being at all snarky...this has been convicting me recently.

 

For all of you who are so against this for being illegal, do you ALWAYS stay at or below the speed limit? Every time your speedomoter rises above the posted speed limit, you are breaking the law by breaking the speed limit. So is your reason for saying this is so wrong is that you think it is a worse illegal offense or that some laws are okay to break and others aren't?

 

We download off a site that is called "Graboid.com" and they claim it's legal....:confused:

 

I rarely speed and if I do, it's usually only 5 mph over the speed limit. However, I don't believe you can really equate the two laws. Just look at the possible punishments.

[rockermom]

There are artists, like The Barenaked Ladies, who favour downloading. It expands their audience and fanbase and sells tickets when they're touring. It builds audiences for some smaller artists who otherwise can't get distribution.

 

This harms artists because of the business model of entertainment industries, a business model that mosly rewards the distribution companies. Some artists are changing that model through downloading and I think it might be interesting to see where they go.

 

Yes, I agree that the business model of entertainment may place its rewards disproportionately in favor of those who did not create said entertainment. This does not negate my statement that the stealing does not only hurt the artist/director/producer/whatever but also those who work on the production side, packaging and distribution, retail, etc. It may be stealing pennies from the artist in royalties, but possibly steady employment from working class individuals behind the scenes.

 

Artists who don't have the distribution and who offer downloads are, in fact, giving their product away. That is not stealing.

[kat19]

I don't do it and don't think it's acceptable to do it.

I know everyone feels differently about it~I didn't read all the responses, but this is how I feel about it.

[nmoira]

Just a heads up: Many sites look legit but merely provide pointers for p2p file sharing, but you can usually be tipped off by words similar to these:

 

The purchase of a membership, however, is not a license to upload or download copyrighted material. We urge you to respect copyright and share responsibly.

 

 

Unfortunately, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. (Except in the case of Netflix instant access, which would seem too good to be true if I had a PC :lol: )

 

Here's a partial list of scam sites.

 

 

[rockermom]

I wanted to add that my DH has a difference of opinion as to whether it is okay to illegally download items.... of any nature. We discuss this often.

[nmoira]

 

I wanted to add that my DH has a difference of opinion as to whether it is okay to illegally download items.... of any nature. We discuss this often.

I know the feeling. :)

[ma23peas]

Sites you can legally download...

 

Movielink, Movieflix, Ifilm, CinemaNow and real.com

 

FYI for those interested!

 

Tara

[Word Nerd]

How do you all feel about the ethics of buying, selling, or trading used books?

[nmoira]

 

How do you all feel about the ethics of buying, selling, or trading used books?

I've bought used books, DVD's, art, and CD's. I think the ethical onus is on the person doing the selling not to have retained any copies of the work being sold. The artist/copyright holder was paid for the original unit. If I make a copy and sell it, or offer it for download, the artist/copyright holder is not being reimbursed for the new unit(s).

[ma23peas]

nmoira...aren't you amazed at how things have changed sooo much in just 10 years?? I wonder if in 10 years we will have a completely different way of handling these issues...a lot of change comes about from new technology...oh great, something new to learn! The whole Tivo thing was so threatening to me, I really didn't think I could add one techno programming item into my brain!!

 

These times are changing!!

Tara

[akmommy]

Years ago we used to download from Napster (before they went legit) and then they were sued by Metallica. Listening to the case and Metallica's side of the suit really gave us alot to think about not just legally but ethically. I would not steal a CD or DVD from a store and while there is no tangible item I believe this really amounts to same thing.

 

I would think that if a relatively unknown artist just wants to get their music (or whatever) out there then they would a website set up for that purpose, but unless I have some assurance that yes it is being freely distributed by the owner of the material I don't want it.

 

What would you do if you purchased a DVD only to discover it was a pirated copy? My DH did this not too long ago. He had been looking for a hard to find movie and found a copy at what he believed to be a legitimate online store, but when he recieved the DVD it was an obvious copy.:glare: