Lies People Told Me

[livetoread]

 

Homeschooled kids are either really advanced or terribly behind.

Smart parents have smart kids.

God never wants you to lose your faith, so if you just cry out with an honest desire to believe, he will give you what you need to keep believing.

Children always believe in God if you just teach them from birth (not talking about teens - younger).

The US has the best health care system in the world.

[SporkUK]

"Homebirth guarantees something horrible will happen" and "Homebirth will guarantee you have wonderful, caring midwives giving you their full attention." [along with a lot of the other lies others listed - so many lies around birth].

 

"He has speech problems because you have a foreign accent" [i have this seriously written by a pediatrician, his father having speech issues in his family and the exact same articulation quirk as well as autism running in our family were discounted]

 

"Sending him to a preschool or playgroup will cure his speech issues" [it caused him to return to bring non-verbal for several months].

 

"You'll understand your parents when you're a parent" [still waiting on that...]

 

"If you have any feelings for someone other than the person you're with, you don't really love the person you're with" 

[DawnM]

Really? All three of my guys changed majors in school from what they originally started with and none had trouble or needed more time to graduate because of it. Youngest has changed his major three times and has finally settled on a fourth.

 

I'm guessing this is very school dependent, but it's also common for kids from the ps where I work to change majors in college once they see what they like.

I think some is dependent on the state system and some on the actual major you are switching to.

 

But it is good to hear yours switched without an issue, I have heard some stories here in NC that I didn't hear from the California schools.

 

Dawn

[Guest]

"There's an oil for that!"

 

(Disclaimer: not bashing all essential oil use as I'm researching safe and effective oil use. But there are some ridiculous claims by average moms (not doctors) out there.)

 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[mellifera33]

Really?  All three of my guys changed majors in school from what they originally started with and none had trouble or needed more time to graduate because of it.  Youngest has changed his major three times and has finally settled on a fourth.

 

I'm guessing this is very school dependent, but it's also common for kids from the ps where I work to change majors in college once they see what they like.

 

This would vary a lot depending on school, but also on major. It's much easier to switch mid-stream to social science or some humanities majors, in which the prerequisite structure is more flexible, than to switch to science, math, or foreign language majors, in which courses must be taken in a particular order. 

 

I changed majors several times, in the 90's, at a small LAC, but my friends at state universities who were studying bio or chem had trouble getting into the 101-level courses as freshmen. 

Edited July 24, 2016 by mellifera33

[TranquilMind]

I said in my original post that I believe in working smart but that fortunate timing is also a factor.

 

My family is too cheap to pay rent. For those of us who went to college away from family, they purchased a rental property. And that was really the beginning of it. I was gifted "my" property upon graduation and used it to leverage the purchase of a second rental property (a fourplex, my husband and I in one unit and the other three units financing the mortgage). And from there we kept buying properties, each one paying for the next - other peoples' money working for us. We kept that money separate from our incomes and just kept re-investing it.

 

We had a great head start thanks to my family; the same I hope to give my kids.

 

We had great timing in our non-real estate investments, always lucking into a great market and having a buffer in downturns. Real estate can be tricky and we've been fortunate thus far.

 

And we've always lived below our means, which has been doable because we chose to live near family. We continue to pool our resources as a group to benefit our entire family. I've spent eight years trying to convince my family to move out of the Bible Belt, but it's not happening. So at least I'm benefiting from the cheaper cost of living LOL.

 

My ex-husband and I disagreed about mortgages. He hated them. I thought they were a justifiable debt, and smarter to have (if you were going to have any debt at all). I thought the money was better off invested elsewhere in a higher earning potential because you can write off a mortgage and still pay it down if the outside investment goes right! But there's no greater feeling than to pay it off. I hope you get there soon!

Thanks! Me too!

 

We have always tried to live below our means too, if by "our means", one means the typical home or car purchase for one's income level. Personally, I think if one has any house or car debt for any significant amount of time, one probably isn't living below one's means.

 

Currently considering buying that house near campus because I have always thought that was a great idea for the kids who are nearby.

[TranquilMind]

No offense, but it sounds like having been incredibly lucky to have people just hand you money also helped a whole hell of a lot. Having someone gift you a house as a young graduate isn't very common. Heck, not having to pay for your housing expenses while in college also is a huge, gift, even not including being given the entire house/apartment/wahtever afterwards! Plus having family nearby to babysit, help out, do your laundry, clean your house, whatever. I can't chalk all that up to "working smart"...it's also starting out ahead of the game.

But the principles tend to work even for people who start out with little.

 

Living way below your means, encouraging the kids to find ways to create business and make money, buying cars or houses wholesale rather than retail, etc.

 

Staying close to family is a great help, if you are fortunate enough to have them. Some cultures and personality types tend to do that more than others.

[heartlikealion]

I don't even know if I know what buying a house/car wholesale means.

 

Having family nearby isn't enough (which may have been implied by the different cultures/personality comment). They have to be able-bodied, etc. If I were to live near my parents they wouldn't be able to do much for me. My in-laws could, but they don't always honor my wishes.

 

For someone truly starting out with little, living below your means is probably a necessity, not a way to save up. BTDT.

[ktgrok]

I don't even know if I know what buying a house/car wholesale means.

 

Having family nearby isn't enough (which may have been implied by the different cultures/personality comment). They have to be able-bodied, etc. If I were to live near my parents they wouldn't be able to do much for me. My in-laws could, but they don't always honor my wishes.

 

For someone truly starting out with little, living below your means is probably a necessity, not a way to save up. BTDT.

 

Right. And starting out with 50-100K in debt is a lot different a starting place than starting out with a paid for education AND a free house that you can sell as an investment. It's just apples and oranges. And a bit disheartening when people say "oh, I did this so well" when in reality they started with way more resources. Not angry, I'm happy that anyone got that great a start, but sometimes I think how much of a help it was is downplayed. 

[theelfqueen]

"There's an oil for that!"

 

(Disclaimer: not bashing all essential oil use as I'm researching safe and effective oil use. But there are some ridiculous claims by average moms (not doctors) out there.)

 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

Yup I should treat my olfactory triggered migraines with oils, too...

 

Migraines and Asthma are all in your HEAD if you only _____... they'd go away.

 

My parents don't believe that their smoking gives me asthma attacks -- somehow they also miss that the smoky haze I grew up in contributed to my asthma issues.

[Tita Gidge]

 

 

No offense, but it sounds like having been incredibly lucky to have people just hand you money also helped a whole hell of a lot. Having someone gift you a house as a young graduate isn't very common. Heck, not having to pay for your housing expenses while in college also is a huge, gift, even not including being given the entire house/apartment/wahtever afterwards! Plus having family nearby to babysit, help out, do your laundry, clean your house, whatever. I can't chalk all that up to "working smart"...it's also starting out ahead of the game. 

 

People haven't handed me money :lol: but I can see where it might appear so from a single post!

 

I moved to the US as an older teenager, with limited English skills. I worked hard, both in school and outside of it, from the time my feet hit the ground. I won't even claim credit for that because it was forced on me and expected by my parents. I earned a full scholarship to a university I had no desire to attend for a major I wasn't crazy about pursuing. I attended anyway because it meant my education was funded by other people's money and I'd have career options immediately post-graduation. My goal was to then find post-grad employment at a company that offered tuition reimbursement so I could pursue a field I was more interested in. And I did.

 

My college home cost less than the equivalent of a year's tuition, which my family was off the hook for because I worked hard to earn a scholarship and followed the money rather than my desire/heart/interest. This was the first of many smart decisions I made in securing the situation I'm in now. Other people's money paid off that rental - the mortgage was covered by renters, not by me or my family. That was another smart decision. Instead of throwing money into a dorm or apartment, we put it down on a property and let other people's money pay it off and work for us.

 

I still own that property. The money I still earn is being funneled into purchasing a property for my son as he heads off to college next month. He, too, worked hard and earned a full 4-year scholarship. Nobody is handing him anything, either. What you see as a gift is a blessing in one sense, but also the fruit of his hard work and some long-term planning. He's still working for room and board, it's just as a student maintaining his scholarship and networking instead of cleaning up popcorn at the movie theater or delivering pizzas. It's making other people's money work for us - first through scholarships, secondly through roommates paying off the mortgage of the property I merely sign a loan for.

 

As for living near family, that was a choice I made. When they uprooted everyone and moved to the groin of America, I followed grudgingly BECAUSE of the value they brought to our lives and that we brought to theirs. It was not starting out ahead of the game, it was staying ahead of the game by prioritizing it - which, to me, is smart. I took a financial hit by moving to them. My job was less in demand so my income was reduced significantly; in order to raise it back up, I had to travel to clients. I spent half of each month or more in hotels, homeschooling on my days home around the irregular schedule of international clients and still meeting the old-world expectations my parents had of their adult children.

 

The trade-off was that I had family support (be it laundry, cleaning, or babysitting) and proximity that would foster relationships with my children. My Asian friends always understood why I did it, but my American friends never could wrap their heads around prioritizing extended family over finances/job. It may not have been the smart choice for them, but it was the smart choice for me based on my family and priorities. But still - free laundry, housecleaning and babysitting was a decision I intentionally made, and not something I lucked into or was handed LOL. Many days I'd rather wash my own stupid clothes than do the job I got instead: bathing three aunties (one with Alzheimer's), one uncle (with dementia), and my grandmother ... all in their 90s!

 

No offense, but I see a lot of Americans attribute the drive/grit of some people to pure luck. And fortunate timing does play a part, for sure, but it's easier to write off someone as being lucky than it is to fuel one's own inner drive to make things happen for himself. We came to this country with virtually nothing. I have a strong mentality rooted in my experience about what's possible when it's truly necessary. I've found it common within my circle of immigrants, and also to Americans who grew up in true poverty. And in keeping with the topic of the thread, perhaps the "where there's a will, there's a way" thing is a lie people feel they've been told. But I think denouncing it's possibility is more a lie people tell themselves.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Tita Gidge

[El...]

 

 

 

 

People haven't handed me money :lol: but I can see where it might appear so from a single post!

 

I moved to the US as an older teenager, with limited English skills. I worked hard, both in school and outside of it, from the time my feet hit the ground. I won't even claim credit for that because it was forced on me and expected by my parents. I earned a full scholarship to a university I had no desire to attend for a major I wasn't crazy about pursuing. I attended anyway because it meant my education was funded by other people's money and I'd have career options immediately post-graduation. My goal was to then find post-grad employment at a company that offered tuition reimbursement so I could pursue a field I was more interested in. And I did.

 

My college home cost less than the equivalent of a year's tuition, which my family was off the hook for because I worked hard to earn a scholarship and followed the money rather than my desire/heart/interest. This was the first of many smart decisions I made in securing the situation I'm in now. Other people's money paid off that rental - the mortgage was covered by renters, not by me or my family. That was another smart decision. Instead of throwing money into a dorm or apartment, we put it down on a property and let other people's money pay it off and work for us.

 

I still own that property. The money I still earn is being funneled into purchasing a property for my son as he heads off to college next month. He, too, worked hard and earned a full 4-year scholarship. Nobody is handing him anything, either. What you see as a gift is a blessing in one sense, but also the fruit of his hard work and some long-term planning. He's still working for room and board, it's just as a student maintaining his scholarship and networking instead of cleaning up popcorn at the movie theater or delivering pizzas. It's making other people's money work for us - first through scholarships, secondly through roommates paying off the mortgage of the property I merely sign a loan for.

 

As for living near family, that was a choice I made. When they uprooted everyone and moved to the groin of America, I followed grudgingly BECAUSE of the value they brought to our lives and that we brought to theirs. It was not starting out ahead of the game, it was staying ahead of the game by prioritizing it - which, to me, is smart. I took a financial hit by moving to them. My job was less in demand so my income was reduced significantly; in order to raise it back up, I had to travel to clients. I spent half of each month or more in hotels, homeschooling on my days home around the irregular schedule of international clients and still meeting the old-world expectations my parents had of their adult children.

 

The trade-off was that I had family support (be it laundry, cleaning, or babysitting) and proximity that would foster relationships with my children. My Asian friends always understood why I did it, but my American friends never could wrap their heads around prioritizing extended family over finances/job. It may not have been the smart choice for them, but it was the smart choice for me based on my family and priorities. But still - free laundry, housecleaning and babysitting was a decision I intentionally made, and not something I lucked into or was handed LOL. Many days I'd rather wash my own stupid clothes than do the job I got instead: bathing three aunties (one with Alzheimer's), one uncle (with dementia), and my grandmother ... all in their 90s!

 

No offense, but I see a lot of Americans attribute the drive/grit of some people to pure luck. And fortunate timing does play a part, for sure, but it's easier to write off someone as being lucky than it is to fuel one's own inner drive to make things happen for himself. We came to this country with virtually nothing. I have a strong mentality rooted in my experience about what's possible when it's truly necessary. I've found it common within my circle of immigrants, and also to Americans who grew up in true poverty. And in keeping with the topic of the thread, perhaps the "where there's a will, there's a way" thing is a lie people feel they've been told. But I think denouncing it's possibility is more a lie people tell themselves.

 

You are a rock star, IMO.  What a neat extended family you have, too! 

[ktgrok]

I agree that living near family has huge benefits, and can be a choice. The only reason we won't live the state is to be near family. But my father works full timing my mother is on disability for debilitating arthritis in her hands. She can't help out physically the way that yours can. My husband's parents are dead, his father from a heart attack at age 35 while shoveling snow, his mother after surgical complications. No help there either. I think more people don't have extended family that could help, than choose to do without it. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, it's not a choice we can make, it's not an option at all. And same with the house you lived in in school, the rent your roommates paid may have covered the mortgage, but your parents still had to have the credit and money to buy the house in the first place. I'm assuming it was a second home for them. Most people's parents can't afford to buy them a property to live in, or rather, can't get the mortgage for it while paying on their own mortgage. Same for your son. I'm not begrudging it to you, but really, there is no way my parents would have qualified for a loan on a second house when I was in school. And although monthly they were able to help out with living expenses, they did' have a large sum to put down as a down payment. And part of my living expenses were covered because I  did have a scholarship, so very little student debt (my payments when I graduated were $50 a month), but certainly didn't come out with an assets. My husband had to drop out of high school to earn money to pay the electric bill when his mother had mental health problems and couldn't work. Or chose not too...no one is sure. He got his GED years later, then went to school at the only school offering the degree he needed for his field that has since been investigated for unethical business practices. Not a great choice, but he was a young kid who was the first to go to college, with no father and a mentally ill mother, with no one to advise him. Heck, his mom would show up at his college trying to get him to leave class in order to help her hide her car that was about to be repossessed. He managed to graduate, and pay for things of her, but ended up in a huge amount of debt. He now has a lucrative job, but his student loan payment is about the same as our mortgage. There are so many people on these board with parents who were not supportive, or didn't have the resources to help if they wanted to. I'm not saying you didn't work hard, I'm saying that people can work just as hard, but if they are starting thousands in debt, instead of debt free and owning income property, the results may not look the same. 

Edited July 24, 2016 by ktgrok

[Tita Gidge]

Right. And starting out with 50-100K in debt is a lot different a starting place than starting out with a paid for education AND a free house that you can sell as an investment. It's just apples and oranges. And a bit disheartening when people say "oh, I did this so well" when in reality they started with way more resources. Not angry, I'm happy that anyone got that great a start, but sometimes I think how much of a help it was is downplayed. 

 

I think this is a lie people tell themselves. I say this with all due respect because I see so many working and middle class Americans who feel stuck without options for education - too "rich" to qualify for much aid, too "poor" to actually fund higher education out of pocket. But I think the real issue is that they aren't as hungry as those who driven by true necessity to move up the socio-economic ladder, and so they justify opportunity away.

 

I started out with less than most people. I know this because when we first moved here, we ate canned dog food since it was cheaper but still "meat" so it had to be okay, right? With rice, always with rice. Every meal was rice, sometimes we were lucky and got the dog food, too. Two years later I had a full scholarship to a major university. I wasn't going to college any other way, and it's part of why we moved to this country so I wasn't about to let my family down. I don't normally share that experience. It's humiliating. But it's important in illustrating why I tell my kids to "work smart" - because I know it pays off. I feed my dogs human food LOL.

 

Starting out 50-100K in debt wasn't an option for me; it wasn't a luxury I could even entertain, and so I didn't. I busted my butt to secure my way into college. My extended family, in turn, busted theirs to buy a rental property for each of us ... they (smartly) determined it to be a wise investment. Let other people's money fund their children's education and let other people's money fund their college room and board expenses. And it worked. With 12 kids to put through college (my eldest sister didn't attend until her 30s) my parents funded $0 towards tuition and managed to gift 10 of us rental properties upon graduation. Every single one of those mortgages was paid off by renters, not by my parents; they merely fronted the money. They stuck it into a property instead of a savings account.

 

It's unfortunate that the take away is 'disheartening' because I firmly believe that if I could do it, anyone can - especially most American kids who grew up working or middle class and have significant more advantages than I ever did. They just have to be hungry or desperate enough, and most aren't.

[heartlikealion]

I think this is a lie people tell themselves. I say this with all due respect because I see so many working and middle class Americans who feel stuck without options for education - too "rich" to qualify for much aid, too "poor" to actually fund higher education out of pocket. But I think the real issue is that they aren't as hungry as those who driven by true necessity to move up the socio-economic ladder, and so they justify opportunity away.

 

I started out with less than most people. I know this because when we first moved here, we ate canned dog food since it was cheaper but still "meat" so it had to be okay, right? With rice, always with rice. Every meal was rice, sometimes we were lucky and got the dog food, too. Two years later I had a full scholarship to a major university. I wasn't going to college any other way, and it's part of why we moved to this country so I wasn't about to let my family down. I don't normally share that experience. It's humiliating. But it's important in illustrating why I tell my kids to "work smart" - because I know it pays off. I feed my dogs human food LOL.

 

Starting out 50-100K in debt wasn't an option for me; it wasn't a luxury I could even entertain, and so I didn't. I busted my butt to secure my way into college. My extended family, in turn, busted theirs to buy a rental property for each of us ... they (smartly) determined it to be a wise investment. Let other people's money fund their children's education and let other people's money fund their college room and board expenses. And it worked. With 12 kids to put through college (my eldest sister didn't attend until her 30s) my parents funded $0 towards tuition and managed to gift 10 of us rental properties upon graduation. Every single one of those mortgages was paid off by renters, not by my parents; they merely fronted the money. They stuck it into a property instead of a savings account.

 

It's unfortunate that the take away is 'disheartening' because I firmly believe that if I could do it, anyone can - especially most American kids who grew up working or middle class and have significant more advantages than I ever did. They just have to be hungry or desperate enough, and most aren't.

 

I'm glad it all worked out and it does sound like you all worked very hard. I just wish you'd acknowledge that this isn't something physically/financially possible for everyone that busts their butt. I don't believe so, anyway. This is assuming rental properties are available in the right location, for the right price and that people qualify for a loan or whatever to front the money. I'm sure there are other factors as well.

[ktgrok]

I

 

Starting out 50-100K in debt wasn't an option for me; it wasn't a luxury I could even entertain, and so I didn't. I busted my butt to secure my way into college. My extended family, in turn, busted theirs to buy a rental property for each of us ... they (smartly) determined it to be a wise investment. Let other people's money fund their children's education and let other people's money fund their college room and board expenses. And it worked. With 12 kids to put through college (my eldest sister didn't attend until her 30s) my parents funded $0 towards tuition and managed to gift 10 of us rental properties upon graduation. Every single one of those mortgages was paid off by renters, not by my parents; they merely fronted the money. They stuck it into a property instead of a savings account.

 

It's unfortunate that the take away is 'disheartening' because I firmly believe that if I could do it, anyone can - especially most American kids who grew up working or middle class and have significant more advantages than I ever did. They just have to be hungry or desperate enough, and most aren't.

 

But that's my entire point. You had the benefit of a family that worked smart, as you put it, and had that money saved up for each of you, and taught you the importance of education. THAT is something other kids don't have. Your parents stuck money into rental property instead of a savings account, but they had that money. And way more than that, they cared enough to do it. I'm not saying your parents didn't work hard, or that you didn't, but you benefited GREATLy from having parents that DID work hard, and would rather fund your financial beginnings with a down payment on a home than fund their own savings/drug habit/gambling addiction/fancy cars/medical bills/etc. Most don't have that....you don't get to pick your parents. I know my husband wouldn't have chosen to grow up without a father, and with a mother that was addicted to pills and mentally ill, unable to work. He wouldn't have chosen to drop out of high school to keep the electric bill on and pay for clothes for his little brother. Kind of hard to work towards a scholarship when you have dropped out to pay the bills so your mom and little brother and you don't starve. Hard to get a good job that has tuition reimbursement when you don't have a high school diploma. 

 

Working smart is important, but it's also a generational thing that starts before you are born, to have the most effect. 

 

Edited to Add: So I guess I'm agreeing with you, just saying it really takes more than one generation to be really successful. 

Edited July 24, 2016 by ktgrok

[Guest]

Tita Gidge, that is essentially how we are managing to get our four closely-aged children through college. Fifteen years ago we bought a house, lived in it for two years, then started renting it out. We used other people's rental money to buy that house for us, paying off the mortgage in 13 years. We just sold that house at the beginning of this month, and now have a good amount of money to use to fund our kids' college expenses for the next few years. ETA: This wasn't an accidental outcome. We bought that house with this exact plan in mind.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Kinsa

[DawnM]

 

Starting out 50-100K in debt wasn't an option for me; it wasn't a luxury I could even entertain, and so I didn't. I busted my butt to secure my way into college. My extended family, in turn, busted theirs to buy a rental property for each of us ... they (smartly) determined it to be a wise investment. Let other people's money fund their children's education and let other people's money fund their college room and board expenses. And it worked. With 12 kids to put through college (my eldest sister didn't attend until her 30s) my parents funded $0 towards tuition and managed to gift 10 of us rental properties upon graduation. Every single one of those mortgages was paid off by renters, not by my parents; they merely fronted the money. They stuck it into a property instead of a savings account.

 

It's unfortunate that the take away is 'disheartening' because I firmly believe that if I could do it, anyone can - especially most American kids who grew up working or middle class and have significant more advantages than I ever did. They just have to be hungry or desperate enough, and most aren't.

 

So you went to college, and assuming you graduated at 22, or thereabouts, I still don't know what job you did from ages 22-37 that allowed you a full 85% income retirement with full health benefits for life.

 

We are doing just fine for ourselves and love our jobs.  I am not disheartened at all, I am just trying to figure out how you can survive for 50+ years on a job you did for only 15 years.

[TranquilMind]

I don't even know if I know what buying a house/car wholesale means.

 

Having family nearby isn't enough (which may have been implied by the different cultures/personality comment). They have to be able-bodied, etc. If I were to live near my parents they wouldn't be able to do much for me. My in-laws could, but they don't always honor my wishes.

 

For someone truly starting out with little, living below your means is probably a necessity, not a way to save up. BTDT.

 

Sorry.  To me, it means buying at auction or out of estates, wherever possible.  Sometimes just a direct deal.  I bought a larger house with all updated systems (dated cosmetics though) out of a guardianship auction for less than I paid for my own house 14 years ago or so.   That's what I mean by it.

 

True, parents have to be able.  My mom was able to babysit very little in her final years, but she was still willing for that pinch of a doctor appointment or something.  Even that helps.  Now I don't even have that, though they are older. 

 

We sure didn't live below our means when we started out.  It took all of our means to get established in a tiny half double at first.  Then we bought the first house at an estate auction for $2000 down, which was all we had been able to save in nearly three years.  A lot of beans and rice for those first couple of years especially.  

This is what I am talking about.  Lots of people don't this today.  They go retail, and pull full retail price for every house and car and then you have huge payments.  I like to avoid huge or any payments. I do not drive a beautiful vehicle, especially now that some lunatic HIT me on the highway, left a 4 foot scrape down the side of my car, and took off!  It's probably my least favorite color as well, but it is a rocking, top-of-the-line vehicle for its year, back in the early 2000's. 

 

But I haven't had a car payment for 20 years. 

 

[TranquilMind]

Tita Gidge, that is essentially how we are managing to get our four closely-aged children through college. Fifteen years ago we bought a house, lived in it for two years, then started renting it out. We used other people's rental money to buy that house for us, paying off the mortgage in 13 years. We just sold that house at the beginning of this month, and now have a good amount of money to use to fund our kids' college expenses for the next few years. ETA: This wasn't an accidental outcome. We bought that house with this exact plan in mind.

 

Same thing here.  Bought rentals 15 years ago that are now funding university costs. 

 

[TranquilMind]

I agree that living near family has huge benefits, and can be a choice. The only reason we won't live the state is to be near family. But my father works full timing my mother is on disability for debilitating arthritis in her hands. She can't help out physically the way that yours can. My husband's parents are dead, his father from a heart attack at age 35 while shoveling snow, his mother after surgical complications. No help there either. I think more people don't have extended family that could help, than choose to do without it. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, it's not a choice we can make, it's not an option at all. And same with the house you lived in in school, the rent your roommates paid may have covered the mortgage, but your parents still had to have the credit and money to buy the house in the first place. I'm assuming it was a second home for them. Most people's parents can't afford to buy them a property to live in, or rather, can't get the mortgage for it while paying on their own mortgage. Same for your son. I'm not begrudging it to you, but really, there is no way my parents would have qualified for a loan on a second house when I was in school. And although monthly they were able to help out with living expenses, they did' have a large sum to put down as a down payment. And part of my living expenses were covered because I  did have a scholarship, so very little student debt (my payments when I graduated were $50 a month), but certainly didn't come out with an assets. My husband had to drop out of high school to earn money to pay the electric bill when his mother had mental health problems and couldn't work. Or chose not too...no one is sure. He got his GED years later, then went to school at the only school offering the degree he needed for his field that has since been investigated for unethical business practices. Not a great choice, but he was a young kid who was the first to go to college, with no father and a mentally ill mother, with no one to advise him. Heck, his mom would show up at his college trying to get him to leave class in order to help her hide her car that was about to be repossessed. He managed to graduate, and pay for things of her, but ended up in a huge amount of debt. He now has a lucrative job, but his student loan payment is about the same as our mortgage. There are so many people on these board with parents who were not supportive, or didn't have the resources to help if they wanted to. I'm not saying you didn't work hard, I'm saying that people can work just as hard, but if they are starting thousands in debt, instead of debt free and owning income property, the results may not look the same. 

 

I think what she is saying is encouraging. You may have had more roadblocks than some and you may not even reach that point until later in life, but you can help set your kids up.  You are right that it may take more than one generation of good decisions, or may even be a one step forward, two steps back thing. 

But it is possible to get to freedom some day.  Maybe your husband will have the next brilliant idea you can market.  Or you will. 

 

[G5052]

I'm in a snarky mood. Taking it back to the original question in two areas I've been thinking about.

 

• If you pray and trust God, you will have enough funds to meet your family's needs (forget economizing, moving, and/or having a family member take on additional work).
• Christians who are truly trusting God won't have to take anti-depressants and/or anti-anxiety medication (why is taking pain medication after surgery OK, but not these?).

 

[Tita Gidge]

I'm glad it all worked out and it does sound like you all worked very hard. I just wish you'd acknowledge that this isn't something physically/financially possible for everyone that busts their butt. I don't believe so, anyway. This is assuming rental properties are available in the right location, for the right price and that people qualify for a loan or whatever to front the money. I'm sure there are other factors as well.

 

Well, I'm not sure why you or anyone would be hung up on what I personally acknowledge or don't ... but I'll give it to you.

 

I don't think I've ever said that the decisions I made were the One True Way for everyone, or even for anyone outside of my own kids.

 

In this thread and others like it, I've always attempted to be clear that my approach was tailored for (really, by) my own family. As an immigrant I've grown up straddling two cultures - the one I was born into and raised with, and the one I currently live in. We originally moved to an area overrun by Asians but we're now in the Bible Belt where the nearest Asian anything is bad teriyaki chicken meals in the frozen section of Walmart. I'm very aware that my family dynamics are not the norm, not here and not for the majority of the country. I post with this in mind, and typically with this explicitly stated (although this thread I neglected to state so prior to now.)

 

Likewise, I didn't present my choices as a solution for the masses. I simply answered someone's question as to what I had in mind when I told my kids to work smart, and elaborated as a conversation developed. I've always believed (and said as much earlier in the thread) that fortunate timing is also a factor. But timing and luck alone aren't enough, the hard and smart work is the essential part.

 

RE: rental properties.  Yes, several factors at play. Some can be planned for (location, pricing) and some cannot (market downturns, timing). The key is to be prepared and to try to stay one step ahead of the market. And it's still a gamble, right? Even the illustrious Donald Trump has gambled on real estate and lost. What gets him back on top every time? Finagling himself into a position to buy low and sell high, using other people's money. (Please! Don't take this as me looking to him as any kind of guru, he's just an easy one to use an example because he's so ... out there ... with his personality, his show, his campaign, and his many rises and falls LOL.) So yes, outside factors matter. But so do those we have more control over.

 

(And as I read this last paragraph, I see where this may come across as me putting out there that this is attainable by anyone. Really, though, it's a conversation to me in which I'm thinking aloud and countering the naysaying. It's not intended to come across as a prescription for anyone's situation, so if it does or has been ... just know that's not been my intent. To me it's been a dialogue and exchange of thoughts on a situation that none of us are immune to.)

[ScoutTN]

I will be 64 when he graduates and ready to retire!

 

Yup, me too.

But we will not be financially able to retire. Too many bad choices.....

[Guest]

Tita Gidge, that is essentially how we are managing to get our four closely-aged children through college. Fifteen years ago we bought a house, lived in it for two years, then started renting it out. We used other people's rental money to buy that house for us, paying off the mortgage in 13 years. We just sold that house at the beginning of this month, and now have a good amount of money to use to fund our kids' college expenses for the next few years. ETA: This wasn't an accidental outcome. We bought that house with this exact plan in mind.

Real estate investing is a great path and one that definitely takes intentionality in property picks. It's one we are beginning to pursue, ourselves. I highly recommend Paula Pant's site for anyone interested in passive income and financial freedom, especially through real estate:

http://affordanything.com

[Tita Gidge]

But that's my entire point. You had the benefit of a family that worked smart, as you put it, and had that money saved up for each of you, and taught you the importance of education. THAT is something other kids don't have. Your parents stuck money into rental property instead of a savings account, but they had that money. And way more than that, they cared enough to do it. I'm not saying your parents didn't work hard, or that you didn't, but you benefited GREATLy from having parents that DID work hard, and would rather fund your financial beginnings with a down payment on a home than fund their own savings/drug habit/gambling addiction/fancy cars/medical bills/etc. Most don't have that....you don't get to pick your parents. I know my husband wouldn't have chosen to grow up without a father, and with a mother that was addicted to pills and mentally ill, unable to work. He wouldn't have chosen to drop out of high school to keep the electric bill on and pay for clothes for his little brother. Kind of hard to work towards a scholarship when you have dropped out to pay the bills so your mom and little brother and you don't starve. Hard to get a good job that has tuition reimbursement when you don't have a high school diploma. 

 

Working smart is important, but it's also a generational thing that starts before you are born, to have the most effect. 

 

Edited to Add: So I guess I'm agreeing with you, just saying it really takes more than one generation to be really successful. 

 

I think we can definitely agree on this.

 

I've always expressed the importance and benefit (to me) of my family's dynamics. It's exactly why I prioritize them over every thing else. And you're right, we don't get to pick our parents. And I'm sorry for your husband's experiences, particularly what amounts to the loss of BOTH parents at a young age. Like him, my family counted on me to work. At the time I was studying for college, I had 10 younger siblings to help care for and financially support. Maintaining a college scholarship (away from home) was a breeze compared to what I had to deal with while trying to earn it. My challenges weren't identical to his but they were close, and I can relate to how defeating it felt.

 

I like what you said about it being something that builds from one generation to the next. I think where I benefitted most is that my parents' generation worked side by side with me to get me where they wanted me to go. Families who don't have that same multi-generational tradition can still benefit, it may just take more generations to realize the benefits.

 

But - not to get sidetracked - this is also where the culture of COMMUNITY comes into play, and where the differences between typical Asian culture and typical American culture are glaring. My parents didn't have a bunch of cash to put into a college home for me! And even if they had qualified for a loan (they wouldn't), they don't trust banks and would never have taken one - a carryover from the old country LOL. That money was pooled from the community - aunts, cousins, grandparents, friends, etc. This is not unusual for Asians, especially those new to the US. I just don't see that happening with Americans ... they seem to prefer formal contracts and keeping business separate from friends/family. What someone sees as then being lucky to have that option, neglects to see the accompanying strings that comes with it. Different cultures.

[Tita Gidge]

So you went to college, and assuming you graduated at 22, or thereabouts, I still don't know what job you did from ages 22-37 that allowed you a full 85% income retirement with full health benefits for life.

 

We are doing just fine for ourselves and love our jobs.  I am not disheartened at all, I am just trying to figure out how you can survive for 50+ years on a job you did for only 15 years.

 

I took my parents' advice and first followed the money. I graduated at 23 with a double major and went into an industry dominated by men. Companies were highly interested in the few women in our program. I was able to negotiate well as far as starting salary and benefits. Had I gone straight into the major/industry I wanted for myself, I'd have been lucky to find a job at all post-grad. I'd have probably ended up going straight for a master's to kill time. That wasn't a financial feasibility for me, though, and therefore not a true option.

 

I used the company's tuition reimbursement plan to get a different degree of more interest to me and then created a position that didn't yet exist but could successfully marry what they had originally hired me to do with something I was more interested in doing. I took the company in a direction they hadn't ever considered, and it became the third highest-earning division in the company. I was up for the COO position but lost out. There wasn't anywhere else for me to go at that company so I was going to quit and start my own.

 

I had signed commitments from three of my colleagues, my work wife (secretary), and several of my clients to follow me when I was approached by the company. They offered me a retirement package but it was conditional on a non-compete clause. They didn't want me moving to another company or starting my own and taking their business. I didn't want to continue working there. So it was a win-win, and I negotiated one hell of a package. I got two years full pay, and 85% thereafter. I retained the air and hotel miles I had accrued, including all accounts. The company will continue to pay for my passport renewals (but not my airport parking fees, I tried!) I receive full health benefits through the age of 66 (at age 55 my ex-husband becomes responsible for my healthcare costs, per our decree and through his retirement - I negotiated one hell of a divorce, too, and will be receiving 50% of his total retirement, not just during the years we were married; and he's a double dipper). 

 

I'll survive by continuing to live below my means, to diversify my investments, to have rainy day backup plans to carry me through the eventual market crashes and recessions, to continue to find ways to allow other people's money work for me (and for my kids, who are my biggest expense.) And that doesn't need to last me 50+ years, only until we become eligible for my ex-husband's retirement, which is mandatory in his late 50s. That'll be harder to stretch, but I have enough kids that someone's bound to take me in. I'll gladly turn over any income I have, and help I can offer around the home, for a room at the inn.

[TravelingChris]

Sounds like that while you were poor, you had an extensive family living near you who would help.  Many of us don't have extended family.  I had no grandparents alive by the time I was in early elementary and that grandmother was a refuge in another country with little money.  I didn't grow up with cousins and aunts and uncles.  I had one second cousin living in the same country.  My father died when I was 13.  My mother had no money to put down on any house and the houses near my college weren't cheap anyway.  I mostly got scholarships with some loans.  Theyk that  weren't that high. My dh's family was poor.  They also had no money to put down on any house.

 

But no matter how hard some people work, they won;t get scholarships for college.   It does take hard work to get them but it also takes brains which is not something one gets by hard work.  You had family and brains.  I don't think it was luck that you got a scholarship and that your family was able to help with a house.  It was a combination of hard work and good fortune.

[ktgrok]

I think we can definitely agree on this.

 

I've always expressed the importance and benefit (to me) of my family's dynamics. It's exactly why I prioritize them over every thing else. And you're right, we don't get to pick our parents. And I'm sorry for your husband's experiences, particularly what amounts to the loss of BOTH parents at a young age. Like him, my family counted on me to work. At the time I was studying for college, I had 10 younger siblings to help care for and financially support. Maintaining a college scholarship (away from home) was a breeze compared to what I had to deal with while trying to earn it. My challenges weren't identical to his but they were close, and I can relate to how defeating it felt.

 

I like what you said about it being something that builds from one generation to the next. I think where I benefitted most is that my parents' generation worked side by side with me to get me where they wanted me to go. Families who don't have that same multi-generational tradition can still benefit, it may just take more generations to realize the benefits.

 

But - not to get sidetracked - this is also where the culture of COMMUNITY comes into play, and where the differences between typical Asian culture and typical American culture are glaring. My parents didn't have a bunch of cash to put into a college home for me! And even if they had qualified for a loan (they wouldn't), they don't trust banks and would never have taken one - a carryover from the old country LOL. That money was pooled from the community - aunts, cousins, grandparents, friends, etc. This is not unusual for Asians, especially those new to the US. I just don't see that happening with Americans ... they seem to prefer formal contracts and keeping business separate from friends/family. What someone sees as then being lucky to have that option, neglects to see the accompanying strings that comes with it. Different cultures.

 

I think that does make a huge difference. I'm hopeful that my children and their children will do better than we are. And that idea of community sounds amazing, we certainly have none of that hear. There was also a distinct lack of advice. Which at times is freeing, but also means you all have to reinvent the wheel over and over again.

[ktgrok]

I took my parents' advice and first followed the money. I graduated at 23 with a double major and went into an industry dominated by men. Companies were highly interested in the few women in our program. I was able to negotiate well as far as starting salary and benefits. Had I gone straight into the major/industry I wanted for myself, I'd have been lucky to find a job at all post-grad. I'd have probably ended up going straight for a master's to kill time. That wasn't a financial feasibility for me, though, and therefore not a true option.

 

I used the company's tuition reimbursement plan to get a different degree of more interest to me and then created a position that didn't yet exist but could successfully marry what they had originally hired me to do with something I was more interested in doing. I took the company in a direction they hadn't ever considered, and it became the third highest-earning division in the company. I was up for the COO position but lost out. There wasn't anywhere else for me to go at that company so I was going to quit and start my own.

 

I had signed commitments from three of my colleagues, my work wife (secretary), and several of my clients to follow me when I was approached by the company. They offered me a retirement package but it was conditional on a non-compete clause. They didn't want me moving to another company or starting my own and taking their business. I didn't want to continue working there. So it was a win-win, and I negotiated one hell of a package. I got two years full pay, and 85% thereafter. I retained the air and hotel miles I had accrued, including all accounts. The company will continue to pay for my passport renewals (but not my airport parking fees, I tried!) I receive full health benefits through the age of 66 (at age 55 my ex-husband becomes responsible for my healthcare costs, per our decree and through his retirement - I negotiated one hell of a divorce, too, and will be receiving 50% of his total retirement, not just during the years we were married; and he's a double dipper). 

 

I'll survive by continuing to live below my means, to diversify my investments, to have rainy day backup plans to carry me through the eventual market crashes and recessions, to continue to find ways to allow other people's money work for me (and for my kids, who are my biggest expense.) And that doesn't need to last me 50+ years, only until we become eligible for my ex-husband's retirement, which is mandatory in his late 50s. That'll be harder to stretch, but I have enough kids that someone's bound to take me in. I'll gladly turn over any income I have, and help I can offer around the home, for a room at the inn.

 

I think that's an amazing story, but I don't see how it is possible for everyone to do, because your company couldn't afford to give that package to EVERY employee. Society needs people to be the cog in the wheel. Once you got that negotiation I doubt they did it again for anyone else. You also married successfully, and divorced even better it sounds like. Heck, even your husband having a mandatory retirement in his 50s is pretty unheard of now, in most fields. 

 

That said, I'm very happy it worked out well for you. I think it also helps that you took some risks, which you could do because you did have a  community behind you. Sometimes I think that is the unspoken benefit, perhaps the biggest one, of a support network. Having the security to take risks that can pan out really well, knowing they will be there to catch you on the chance it doesn't work out. 

 

(my biggest risk was leaving my ex husband, and I did end up moving in with my parents for a few years, with my son. My ex did nothing to support us, so I'd been supporting us and my son on my own, without a degree because I'd dropped out and gone to work to support his education, only to have him then refuse to work. If I hadn't had my parents to rely on then, and allow me to move in, I don't know what I would have done. I did pay rent, but it was much less than anywhere else.)

Edited July 24, 2016 by ktgrok

[speedmom4]

If you have enough faith God will... (fill in the blank)

[Tita Gidge]

Sounds like that while you were poor, you had an extensive family living near you who would help.  Many of us don't have extended family.  I had no grandparents alive by the time I was in early elementary and that grandmother was a refuge in another country with little money.  I didn't grow up with cousins and aunts and uncles.  I had one second cousin living in the same country.  My father died when I was 13.  My mother had no money to put down on any house and the houses near my college weren't cheap anyway.  I mostly got scholarships with some loans.  Theyk that  weren't that high. My dh's family was poor.  They also had no money to put down on any house.

 

But no matter how hard some people work, they won;t get scholarships for college.   It does take hard work to get them but it also takes brains which is not something one gets by hard work.  You had family and brains.  I don't think it was luck that you got a scholarship and that your family was able to help with a house.  It was a combination of hard work and good fortune.

 

 

Similar to you, the only relatives I had in this country those first years were the ones I came over with (parents, younger siblings). Unlike you, I did have an extensive family and village network "back home" that supported us in many ways. And when it came time to start bringing people over, we returned both the kindness and the support (in many ways). It's just a very different culture.

 

I stated early on that fortunate timing played a role in my personal story. I imagine the same to be true for everyone else, regardless of circumstances good or poor. To me that's very much in line with your thought that no matter how hard some people work, they won't get college scholarships. And I agree with it.

 

My ex-husband is also the son of immigrants, though he came over at a younger age and became fluent in English early on. His options were to skip college and take over the family business (no desire) ... take out loans to attend college while working to cover room/board (no clue what he wanted to study) ... or to enlist in the military to buy himself some time. He chose the latter. He chose a different path than I did, because his situation necessitated it. He didn't have a network of extended family, nor did he have any chance of a scholarship. I don't know if they could have swung a loan, but they had a lot invested in their family business so I don't know that they would have added to that debt.

 

We both ended up more successful than our parents' generation. We both fulfilled the dreams of our immigrant families in doing so, even though our situations and approaches were very different. The similarity is that we both worked hard and had fortunate timing; we weren't counting on one or the other to carry us - which I've stated repeatedly in this thread. So you and I agree there!

[Tita Gidge]

I think that's an amazing story, but I don't see how it is possible for everyone to do, because your company couldn't afford to give that package to EVERY employee. Society needs people to be the cog in the wheel. Once you got that negotiation I doubt they did it again for anyone else. You also married successfully, and divorced even better it sounds like. Heck, even your husband having a mandatory retirement in his 50s is pretty unheard of now, in most fields. 

 

That said, I'm very happy it worked out well for you. I think it also helps that you took some risks, which you could do because you did have a  community behind you. Sometimes I think that is the unspoken benefit, perhaps the biggest one, of a support network. Having the security to take risks that can pan out really well, knowing they will be there to catch you on the chance it doesn't work out. 

 

(my biggest risk was leaving my ex husband, and I did end up moving in with my parents for a few years, with my son. My ex did nothing to support us, so I'd been supporting us and my son on my own, without a degree because I'd dropped out and gone to work to support his education, only to have him then refuse to work. If I hadn't had my parents to rely on then, and allow me to move in, I don't know what I would have done. I did pay rent, but it was much less than anywhere else.)

 

I don't think it is possible for everyone to do; I'm not sure where I implied that it was? I answered a question asking how I managed it, I didn't put it out there as a solution for anyone else's situation. :confused1:

 

You're correct that the company wouldn't offer that package to everyone - but not everyone brought in the money that I did, so why would they? And that's pretty much my point (to my kids, not to everyone in this thread who thinks I'm referring to their specific situation) in saying to work smart. I was hired to be a cog in the wheel but in time I wanted more, so I found a way to make myself indispensable. And there were several failed attempts before I managed to succeed, including being passed over for COO. When they no longer found me indispensable, I had to come up with Plan B. And that was to make myself a viable threat to their bottom line. They didn't just sign over a retirement package because I'm cute (though I am!) They did so because they acknowledged my value. I was worth eliminating because of how hard and smart I worked for them, and they didn't want me loose in the industry doing it for myself or others - with a skeleton staff pulled from their ranks and a number of their clients coming with me.

 

Not everyone wants more, so there's no need for them to take risks or work harder than they choose to. Not everyone is willing to negotiate, or (when they do) to ask for the moon as I did. Not everyone knows their own worth, or worse - they do, but don't work for people who do. So again, of course my outcome isn't possible for everyone ... nor does everyone seek the same outcome I did. I still fight issues stemming from our refugee years; I am driven by that experience to work hard and smart so that I'm never again in that kind of vulnerable position.

 

It sounds like you're driven by similar motive, and that we're both fortunate to have had family to lean on. It makes me so sad when I read threads or posts here about fractured (extended) families. My family is far from perfect, and we struggle, but at the end of the day we know we're all better off pooling our resources and working together. So we fight through the challenges and figure out how to make it work with addiction, with gambling, with abandonment, with all sorts of issues facing other families as well. It's a choice, not without trade-offs - good and bad.

 

But that's another sidetrack LOL. I'm grateful to have so many siblings because I can't imagine dealing with the challenging traits of my parents and siblings if there were only a few of us. I imagine my kids feel the same way about me, and will continue to as I get older and even more ornery. Big families are the norm in my culture.

[heartlikealion]

Well, I'm not sure why you or anyone would be hung up on what I personally acknowledge or don't ... but I'll give it to you.

 

I don't think I've ever said that the decisions I made were the One True Way for everyone, or even for anyone outside of my own kids.

 

In this thread and others like it, I've always attempted to be clear that my approach was tailored for (really, by) my own family. As an immigrant I've grown up straddling two cultures - the one I was born into and raised with, and the one I currently live in. We originally moved to an area overrun by Asians but we're now in the Bible Belt where the nearest Asian anything is bad teriyaki chicken meals in the frozen section of Walmart. I'm very aware that my family dynamics are not the norm, not here and not for the majority of the country. I post with this in mind, and typically with this explicitly stated (although this thread I neglected to state so prior to now.)

 

Likewise, I didn't present my choices as a solution for the masses. I simply answered someone's question as to what I had in mind when I told my kids to work smart, and elaborated as a conversation developed. I've always believed (and said as much earlier in the thread) that fortunate timing is also a factor. But timing and luck alone aren't enough, the hard and smart work is the essential part.

 

RE: rental properties.  Yes, several factors at play. Some can be planned for (location, pricing) and some cannot (market downturns, timing). The key is to be prepared and to try to stay one step ahead of the market. And it's still a gamble, right? Even the illustrious Donald Trump has gambled on real estate and lost. What gets him back on top every time? Finagling himself into a position to buy low and sell high, using other people's money. (Please! Don't take this as me looking to him as any kind of guru, he's just an easy one to use an example because he's so ... out there ... with his personality, his show, his campaign, and his many rises and falls LOL.) So yes, outside factors matter. But so do those we have more control over.

 

(And as I read this last paragraph, I see where this may come across as me putting out there that this is attainable by anyone. Really, though, it's a conversation to me in which I'm thinking aloud and countering the naysaying. It's not intended to come across as a prescription for anyone's situation, so if it does or has been ... just know that's not been my intent. To me it's been a dialogue and exchange of thoughts on a situation that none of us are immune to.)

 

I guess I was feeling like you were saying "you just have to be hungry enough/work hard enough! and you can do xyz." Anyone who flopped must not have wanted it badly enough or applied themselves. /shrug

 

I don't know if you realize how unique your situation sounds, not just because of investing in rental properties but because extended family was involved in the process for twelve family members. I imagine lots of people are lucky to get a birthday card from extended family let alone have money for property sent their way. The fact that the homes were rented out in what sounds like a pretty smooth cycle over the years caught me off guard. I'm probably biased here because I have seen my parents struggle to rent out property to reliable/clean tenants. They actually bought the first home dh and I lived in just so we had a place to rent when we were expecting our son and needed to move out of the tiny apartments we had. When we moved out, that home was a huge burden to occupy/sell and eventually they sold it. So I guess I'm thinking I am scared of the idea of having to ever rent property or wait for a buyer/renter. lol. I realize you are not saying this is the way for everyone and I appreciate that.

[Rosie_0801]

If we can't pull it off ourselves, we can perhaps learn enough to help our kids pull it off.

[Tita Gidge]

I guess I was feeling like you were saying "you just have to be hungry enough/work hard enough! and you can do xyz." Anyone who flopped must not have wanted it badly enough or applied themselves. /shrug

 

I don't know if you realize how unique your situation sounds, not just because of investing in rental properties but because extended family was involved in the process for twelve family members. I imagine lots of people are lucky to get a birthday card from extended family let alone have money for property sent their way. The fact that the homes were rented out in what sounds like a pretty smooth cycle over the years caught me off guard. I'm probably biased here because I have seen my parents struggle to rent out property to reliable/clean tenants. They actually bought the first home dh and I lived in just so we had a place to rent when we were expecting our son and needed to move out of the tiny apartments we had. When we moved out, that home was a huge burden to occupy/sell and eventually they sold it. So I guess I'm thinking I am scared of the idea of having to ever rent property or wait for a buyer/renter. lol. I realize you are not saying this is the way for everyone and I appreciate that.

 

I'm sorry if that's how my words came across. I believe a part of it - that the hungrier you are, the more opportunities you'll seek out or take advantage of, making xyz more possible. Necessity drives us, it's how we're wired to survive! But in no way do I believe, or did I mean to imply that everyone who has flopped didn't want it badly enough or apply themselves hard enough. (I do think it's a factor in some cases, but definitely not applicable to "anyone" or to "everyone.")  I have a string of flops and failures under my belt! I shared some of them on this thread. I have many more as a parent, as a daughter, as a student, and as a wife. In some cases I worked hard and was hungry, but there was no payout. In other cases, I didn't want it badly enough to apply myself. I think this to be a pretty typical approach, that I'm not unlike most people out there.

 

What's interesting to me is that where I'm from, this IS the norm. It's not unique at all. I think that gets lost when I'm communicating, especially online. I try to be careful to identify myself as an immigrant, and as coming from a different culture but in this thread I appeared to do so unsuccessfully. Ask any Asian, we have some serious skeletons in our family closets - same as any other family. But the cultural tradition is steeped with filial duty and interdependence to the point that our family dynamic looks very different than those of typical Americans with the same skeletons in their closets.

 

Rentals are a tricky business. I've learned (the hard way, through failure!) what makes a smarter investment, but even then ... it's always a risk. We like renting to non-traditional college students, to visiting professors, to undergrads whose parents pay us directly, and to military. Our rentals are all near major universities and military bases, on purpose due to traffic, turnover, and the ability to go through university or military channels to protect our investment. We got lucky that our initial investments were trouble free, and that by the time we did run into problems, we had other properties to sustain us while we worked out the kinks. Given your prior rental experience, I'd be shell-shocked, too, and very nervous about going that road!

 

How do you feel about food trucks? I'm serious LOL. We have a hot market right now for food trucks in my area, and my idea is to lease a small fleet, then turn around and rent the trucks to vendors. Even if I start with just one truck, you know? It's still a very premature idea, I have a lot to learn yet.  There are lots of investments out there, it's a matter of finding the right one and having the right timing to make it all go down!

[heartlikealion]

I'm sorry if that's how my words came across. I believe a part of it - that the hungrier you are, the more opportunities you'll seek out or take advantage of, making xyz more possible. Necessity drives us, it's how we're wired to survive! But in no way do I believe, or did I mean to imply that everyone who has flopped didn't want it badly enough or apply themselves hard enough. (I do think it's a factor in some cases, but definitely not applicable to "anyone" or to "everyone.")  I have a string of flops and failures under my belt! I shared some of them on this thread. I have many more as a parent, as a daughter, as a student, and as a wife. In some cases I worked hard and was hungry, but there was no payout. In other cases, I didn't want it badly enough to apply myself. I think this to be a pretty typical approach, that I'm not unlike most people out there.

 

What's interesting to me is that where I'm from, this IS the norm. It's not unique at all. I think that gets lost when I'm communicating, especially online. I try to be careful to identify myself as an immigrant, and as coming from a different culture but in this thread I appeared to do so unsuccessfully. Ask any Asian, we have some serious skeletons in our family closets - same as any other family. But the cultural tradition is steeped with filial duty and interdependence to the point that our family dynamic looks very different than those of typical Americans with the same skeletons in their closets.

 

Rentals are a tricky business. I've learned (the hard way, through failure!) what makes a smarter investment, but even then ... it's always a risk. We like renting to non-traditional college students, to visiting professors, to undergrads whose parents pay us directly, and to military. Our rentals are all near major universities and military bases, on purpose due to traffic, turnover, and the ability to go through university or military channels to protect our investment. We got lucky that our initial investments were trouble free, and that by the time we did run into problems, we had other properties to sustain us while we worked out the kinks. Given your prior rental experience, I'd be shell-shocked, too, and very nervous about going that road!

 

How do you feel about food trucks? I'm serious LOL. We have a hot market right now for food trucks in my area, and my idea is to lease a small fleet, then turn around and rent the trucks to vendors. Even if I start with just one truck, you know? It's still a very premature idea, I have a lot to learn yet.  There are lots of investments out there, it's a matter of finding the right one and having the right timing to make it all go down!

 

Thank you for the clarification! I did understand you are immigrants, but it didn't occur to me that what you described was in the norm for where you were from. I thought it was just some idea your parents came up with after they moved here. And I should have realized that the extended family dynamic was possibly different due to culture (duh on me).

 

Food trucks sound cool. I'm pretty scared to invest in anything at this time, but I could see how that could potentially be really good in specific areas. We don't have anything like that very close to me, but I see them on TV all the time and I know they have had them at events at one of the museums here. Speaking of trucks, one time last summer we heard the ice-cream truck. We didn't make it outside in time. We never found him again!! Lol. We were quite disappointed!!

[DawnM]

I don't think it is possible for everyone to do; I'm not sure where I implied that it was? I answered a question asking how I managed it, I didn't put it out there as a solution for anyone else's situation. :confused1:

 

You're correct that the company wouldn't offer that package to everyone - but not everyone brought in the money that I did, so why would they? And that's pretty much my point (to my kids, not to everyone in this thread who thinks I'm referring to their specific situation) in saying to work smart. I was hired to be a cog in the wheel but in time I wanted more, so I found a way to make myself indispensable. And there were several failed attempts before I managed to succeed, including being passed over for COO. When they no longer found me indispensable, I had to come up with Plan B. And that was to make myself a viable threat to their bottom line. They didn't just sign over a retirement package because I'm cute (though I am!) They did so because they acknowledged my value. I was worth eliminating because of how hard and smart I worked for them, and they didn't want me loose in the industry doing it for myself or others - with a skeleton staff pulled from their ranks and a number of their clients coming with me.

 

Not everyone wants more, so there's no need for them to take risks or work harder than they choose to. Not everyone is willing to negotiate, or (when they do) to ask for the moon as I did. Not everyone knows their own worth, or worse - they do, but don't work for people who do. So again, of course my outcome isn't possible for everyone ... nor does everyone seek the same outcome I did. I still fight issues stemming from our refugee years; I am driven by that experience to work hard and smart so that I'm never again in that kind of vulnerable position.

 

It sounds like you're driven by similar motive, and that we're both fortunate to have had family to lean on. It makes me so sad when I read threads or posts here about fractured (extended) families. My family is far from perfect, and we struggle, but at the end of the day we know we're all better off pooling our resources and working together. So we fight through the challenges and figure out how to make it work with addiction, with gambling, with abandonment, with all sorts of issues facing other families as well. It's a choice, not without trade-offs - good and bad.

 

But that's another sidetrack LOL. I'm grateful to have so many siblings because I can't imagine dealing with the challenging traits of my parents and siblings if there were only a few of us. I imagine my kids feel the same way about me, and will continue to as I get older and even more ornery. Big families are the norm in my culture.

 

 

Again you seem to be implying that if you really want it, it can happen to you too.  No, it can't.  99.9% of people in any workplace will not be abel to negotiate what you did, no matter how bad they want it.  It simply won't happen.

 

You can't just want it so bad that you can make it happen.  Companies don't have the resources to pay out that much money.

 

Helping family I can relate to.   My parents paid my college costs.  When I asked my dad if I could pay him back when I graduated he said, "YES!  You can pay me back by providing college for your own kids."  I plan to do exactly that.  It may not look the same (my alma mater is now $50K and I cannot afford 4 years of that for all 3 kids.) but I plan to provide a college education for all my kids.

 

Working hard I can relate to.  My father was a very hard worker, he still is.  He instilled a very hard work ethic in me.  My DH also has a very strong work ethic and actually runs circles around me.  I can be lazy at home, even if I am a hard worker while at work.  I hate housework.  I feel like we both have good jobs with good benefits.  Are they as good as some?  Probably not, but times are changing.  The benefits I am being offered now look very different than the benefits I was offered 25 years ago.  I imagine the benefits my kids will be offered will be even less.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2016 by DawnM

[ktgrok]

I don't think it is possible for everyone to do; I'm not sure where I implied that it was? I answered a question asking how I managed it, I didn't put it out there as a solution for anyone else's situation. :confused1:

 

 

 

I think I got confused in the back and forth,and thought you were saying it was possible for everyone. 

 

Thank you for the conversation though! It was very interesting!

[Zinnia]

This thread makes me feel incredibly lazy.  :)

 

Like I just have no desire for any of this hard work.  I just want to raise babies and children and do the best I can and get them the best education I can and just end up wherever I end up.  

[8circles]

:blush: I tell my kids a version of this.

 

"Don't waste your life working for money. You're smart; find a way to let your money (or someone else's!) work for YOU!"

 

 

I've read this whole thread.  Gidge, please don't think I'm picking on you.  But your posts (yes, I read them all, I know you are from an Asian immigrant family & you acknowledge luck & timing) are really bugging me.  It's OK that they bug me, maybe my reaction to them is wrong, but I'm sharing it anyway.

 

First of all, I cringe when I read the above post because it says working for money is wasting your life.  You may not intend to say that, but it says that outright.  Not even implied.  Second, I don't like the advice to profit from other people's money.  I know that this happens in many ways for everyone (investments, taxes, etc) but I think the *goal* of profiting from other people's money feels really icky.  

 

As I said, I read the whole thread so I've read all the details about how this has worked for you and the different ways this concept has applied in your family.  If you acknowledge that not everyone is capable of doing this, (& taking out the parts I object to above) I wonder what you're advice above really means, except "Be successful.  If you fail, you're dumb."  

 

I don't think you mean it this way.  But that's how it reads TO ME.  

[JumpyTheFrog]

First of all, I cringe when I read the above post because it says working for money is wasting your life. You may not intend to say that, but it says that outright. Not even implied. Second, I don't like the advice to profit from other people's money. I know that this happens in many ways for everyone (investments, taxes, etc) but I think the *goal* of profiting from other people's money feels really icky.

No, I think you are misunderstanding her. I think "Don't work for money" means don't get stuck in the employee mindset of trading time for money. The problem with working at an hourly rate is that it doesn't scale up very well. If you need to double your income, you'll have to double your hours. If, however, you are the owner of the business, rather than an employee, it might be possible to expand operations and double your profit without doubling your hours worked.

[SproutMamaK]

I just want to know where people are finding houses that they can rent out for more than the cost of the mortgage! I mean... if renting costs more than buying, why rent? Up here renting is substantially less than buying, and usually done with the intent of saving up to buy. Maybe it's the location? Most rentals here are units in apartment buildings.

Edited July 25, 2016 by SproutMamaK

[fairfarmhand]

I just want to know where people are finding houses that they can rent out for more than the cost of the mortgage! I mean... if renting costs more than buying, why rent? Up here renting is substantially less than buying, and usually done with the intent of saving up to buy. Maybe it's the location? Most rentals here are units in apartment buildings.

 

Usually, the renter pays the mortgage plus a couple hundred. This coveres upkeep and taxes and stuff. The owner gains the equity. Which is how you make $$.

 

Why rent?

 

Flexibilitiy.

 

Poor credit.

 

 

[DawnM]

Usually, the renter pays the mortgage plus a couple hundred. This coveres upkeep and taxes and stuff. The owner gains the equity. Which is how you make $$.

 

Why rent?

 

Flexibilitiy.

 

Poor credit.

 

Completely depends.

 

I have friends renting out their properties they couldn't sell, and not even breaking even.

 

I have friends here who buy run down properties in bad areas and fix them up and rent them.  But they WORK a lot of hours to find them, fix them up, and maintain them.   

[8circles]

No, I think you are misunderstanding her. I think "Don't work for money" means don't get stuck in the employee mindset of trading time for money. The problem with working at an hourly rate is that it doesn't scale up very well. If you need to double your income, you'll have to double your hours. If, however, you are the owner of the business, rather than an employee, it might be possible to expand operations and double your profit without doubling your hours worked.

 

I don't understand how I'm misunderstanding (lol).  I understand your explanation, I just don't agree that there isn't an insult in there.  It isn't wasting your life to be an employee and work for your money.  It isn't dumb either.  It isn't actually economically possible for everyone to "make other people's money work for you", is it?  Is it economically possible for even just those people who try, to succeed in doing that?  IDK, but I doubt it.  I mean, *somebody* has to actually be doing the work for money, right?  It feels unethical to me to have as your financial plan: make money off other people's work & money.

 

Of course, if anyone wants to teach their kids that working for money is wasting their life because they truly believe that, then they certainly can and won't hear a peep from me.  I just disagree & I think it falls under "lies people told me".  Which is what this thread is about and so I thought my opinion was relevant.

[DawnM]

I don't understand how I'm misunderstanding (lol).  I understand your explanation, I just don't agree that there isn't an insult in there.  It isn't wasting your life to be an employee and work for your money.  It isn't dumb either.  It isn't actually economically possible for everyone to "make other people's money work for you", is it?  Is it economically possible for even just those people who try, to succeed in doing that?  IDK, but I doubt it.  I mean, *somebody* has to actually be doing the work for money, right?  It feels unethical to me to have as your financial plan: make money off other people's work & money.

 

Of course, if anyone wants to teach their kids that working for money is wasting their life because they truly believe that, then they certainly can and won't hear a peep from me.  I just disagree & I think it falls under "lies people told me".  Which is what this thread is about and so I thought my opinion was relevant.

 

It isn't just about someone has to do it, but it is also about what you feel you love doing.  I get paid to do what I love to do, that seems smart to me!  And it isn't all about the money.  I work in a public service job.  I feel I am giving back AND getting so much out of it myself.  It is fulfilling.

 

And you are right, not everyone has the aptitude for the same things.   For example, I thought I would go into medicine, until I took 10th grade Chemistry and let's just say my scores weren't all that great.  Let's just leave it at that.

 

I have no issue with bartering.  I bartered my tutoring services for another mom's cleaning services.    I hate cleaning and she was sick of fighting with her teen.  Win-win.

[8circles]

It isn't just about someone has to do it, but it is also about what you feel you love doing.  I get paid to do what I love to do, that seems smart to me!  And it isn't all about the money.  I work in a public service job.  I feel I am giving back AND getting so much out of it myself.  It is fulfilling.

 

And you are right, not everyone has the aptitude for the same things.   For example, I thought I would go into medicine, until I took 10th grade Chemistry and let's just say my scores weren't all that great.  Let's just leave it at that.

 

I have no issue with bartering.  I bartered my tutoring services for another mom's cleaning services.    I hate cleaning and she was sick of fighting with her teen.  Win-win.

 

Yes, I agree with you & I think you are understanding me, too (I hope).  I'm not anti-investment either - I think my posts could be read that way as well - that isn't what I mean.  It's the "wasting" part that frames it in such a yucky light.

[TranquilMind]

 

I'm in a snarky mood. Taking it back to the original question in two areas I've been thinking about.

 

• If you pray and trust God, you will have enough funds to meet your family's needs (forget economizing, moving, and/or having a family member take on additional work).
• Christians who are truly trusting God won't have to take anti-depressants and/or anti-anxiety medication (why is taking pain medication after surgery OK, but not these?).

 

I always try to take a longer view of that kind of stuff. 

 

When bad stuff happens, we are to walk through the "valley of the shadow of death", not set up camp and live there.   So temporary help might be necessary in any area, just like pain medication after a surgery, but I don't want to live there.  I've had a bunch of surgeries.  Even the pain medication has side effects!  ugh. 

 

So if stuff happens, my husband is so good about  saying we are on the way out of a bad place.       

 

I have to hang on to this and repeat it often. 

23 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

² He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

³ He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

⁴ Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

⁵ Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

⁶ Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

 

[TranquilMind]

But that's my entire point. You had the benefit of a family that worked smart, as you put it, and had that money saved up for each of you, and taught you the importance of education. THAT is something other kids don't have. Your parents stuck money into rental property instead of a savings account, but they had that money. And way more than that, they cared enough to do it. I'm not saying your parents didn't work hard, or that you didn't, but you benefited GREATLy from having parents that DID work hard, and would rather fund your financial beginnings with a down payment on a home than fund their own savings/drug habit/gambling addiction/fancy cars/medical bills/etc. Most don't have that....you don't get to pick your parents. I know my husband wouldn't have chosen to grow up without a father, and with a mother that was addicted to pills and mentally ill, unable to work. He wouldn't have chosen to drop out of high school to keep the electric bill on and pay for clothes for his little brother. Kind of hard to work towards a scholarship when you have dropped out to pay the bills so your mom and little brother and you don't starve. Hard to get a good job that has tuition reimbursement when you don't have a high school diploma. 

 

Working smart is important, but it's also a generational thing that starts before you are born, to have the most effect. 

 

Edited to Add: So I guess I'm agreeing with you, just saying it really takes more than one generation to be really successful. 

 

She said it was the extended family that helped.  And she ate dog food, for goodness sakes, in childhood.  Her parents must not have been sitting on a pile of cash themselves if that happened. 

You are right.  They cared enough to do it. 

 

Most  of us care enough to try to do it for our kids too, I think.  Sure, some have advantages others don't have, but it doesn't sound as if she started in a castle, so I think it is pretty darn impressive.