Would love some insight on my 7 year old

[SarahB82]

My oldest son will be 7 Saturday.  He is the sweetest and happiest kid.  Easy going and does his school work without complaint most of the time.  But he is completely unable to focus in a group setting.  He hasn't ever seen a neuropsych for a diagnosis but he is definitely ADD.  His pediatrician always says she is thankful he is homeschooled so he doesn't have to be medicated.  

He is a wonderful big brother.  Plays with his little brothers and helps me out with them.  Honestly, he is a wonderful child.

He has been going to VBS at a nearby church. We haven't had our VBS  yet.  His class is lead by my old piano teacher who will be his teacher this fall. She is a wonderful lady and loves him.  If she didn't, she would probably have strangled him tonight.  When his class was on the stage he was all over the place.  Singing in the face of other kids, moving around, laying on the stage, etc.  Completely crazy stuff.  They had a bubble machine on the stage and he had to be moved away from it after their song was over because he was just standing there popping bubbles.  If you were watching, you would wonder what is wrong with him.  He does this sometimes when he is in a group setting.  All of the other kids are following along with the teacher and he is out in complete left field.  It is like he can not focus at all and has no impulse control.  He has trouble relating to a group of kids because he doesn't respect their personal space.  He prefers to be in his own head pretending to playing with other kids.  He plays well with his cousins, my friend's kids, his brothers, etc. but just plays alone when there is a large group.  He does great at library story time but terrible at VBS.  

 

I am not really sure what I am asking of all of you.  Anything you have will be appreciated.  Anyone have this kid who is now all grown up?  What did you do?  What do you wish you had done?

 

I really am not looking to "fix" him.  He is happy, he is loving, he is a joy to parent - unless he needs to function in a group setting.

[gardenmom5]

It sounds like he may actually have central auditory processing disorder.  there are three main types, and there is a lot of overlap with adhd/asd/ocd/etc.

 

it's treatable.  it's also more common in boys, because they need 3TIMES as many essential fatty acids as girls for the development of the corpus callosum.  (it enables both hemispheres of the brain to talk to each other.  that can lead to the nervous system being overwhelmed by both noise and commotion in a group.)

 

I've lost the website that was discussing this (and was so sure I'd saved it), but

 

there are many books on amazon that talk about it, and have exercises you can do at home to help the development of the corpus callosum. 

also - increase essential fatty acids in his diet.  (Nordic naturals proomega fish oil is an excellent source.)   it may not relieve all symptoms, but you should see improvement over time.

 

we're currently doing an online therapy through an audiologist.  it's pricey, and one of the more affordable options.

 

in the meantime - also consider earplugs for when he's in a large group.

 

Edited June 10, 2016 by gardenmom5

[SarahB82]

I am willing to try anything that doesn't have the potential to harm.  I will look at the fish oil.

I guess my biggest concern is that I am not sure if he needs to be disciplined for the times when he is completely not doing what he is supposed to be doing.  I struggle to realize how much of it he can help.

[Ellie]

I am willing to try anything that doesn't have the potential to harm.  I will look at the fish oil.

I guess my biggest concern is that I am not sure if he needs to be disciplined for the times when he is completely not doing what he is supposed to be doing.  I struggle to realize how much of it he can help.

 

If you stop him and redirect him when he is not doing what he is supposed to be doing, is that discipline? Or really, discipline is not a bad word. It's more like helping someone learn to do what he is supposed to do. Maybe you're thinking of "punish" instead. If he's doing something he isn't supposed to be doing, and you correct/redirect, wouldn't that be a good thing? 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Ellie

[HomeAgain]

Why on earth didn't you take him down from the stage when he started acting up?

 

I agree, discipline is not a dirty word.  We put our children in situations where they can be successful, and often keep them from being in a situation that is 100% failure.  It is not a punishment, it's a step they are not ready for at that moment, and it needs to be taken slowly.  You teach, give them room, teach again, give them more room..please don't sit back and just accept the situation without being active about it.

I'm not going to armchair diagnose your child.  That's between you and a doctor.

[happi duck]

IMO, even with add behavior still gets addressed.

 

When I taught public school, the students who wanted to sit on top of other kids, talk into other kids faces etc did *not* get to do that. With no direction that is what they would do...so I kindly directed them otherwise. (No punishment)

 

It takes more effort in general with some kids. Each kid usually has one area that takes some extra effort.

 

IMO, the vbs teachers were wrong to let behavior that impacts other kids continue.

 

You've noticed that group behavior is the area where you will need to put in extra effort. Maybe he needs a dedicated helper with him during vbs. I've worked vbs and several times a helper was assigned one on one to a kid.

 

It's worth the effort and again, I am not suggesting punishment.

[gardenmom5]

 

 

I'm not going to armchair diagnose your child.  That's between you and a doctor.

 

I've had too much experience  with incorrect diagnosis from drs  - including from my own former ped. (denying dudeling was even worth considering for asd - he was subsequently diagnosed with asd by a major child dev clinic - with a very large team of specialists - that sees a lot of asd kids.  and putting one on adhd rx, which he hated, when his only problem was capd.  those are just two of his misdiagnosis.)

 

I've also attended a lecture with a dr who runs a clinic *specifically* for adhd kids.  every single child who comes to his clinic has already been diagnosed as adhd by their own pediatrician.  he does a more thorough screening, and less than half the children who come to him actually have adhd.

 

eta: when dudeling was six, a couple younger women moved into our congregation at church.  they saw him and both of them ran up to me asking if he had asd.  one is an audiologist, the other a speech pathologist.  those are two specialties that see asd a lot.  they were recent graduates, and this was one of the first times they were recognizing those traits in a child outside of  their controlled provider environment.

Edited June 10, 2016 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

IMO, even with add behavior still gets addressed.

 

When I taught public school, the students who wanted to sit on top of other kids, talk into other kids faces etc did *not* get to do that. With no direction that is what they would do...so I kindly directed them otherwise. (No punishment)

 

It takes more effort in general with some kids. Each kid usually has one area that takes some extra effort.

 

IMO, the vbs teachers were wrong to let behavior that impacts other kids continue.

 

You've noticed that group behavior is the area where you will need to put in extra effort. Maybe he needs a dedicated helper with him during vbs. I've worked vbs and several times a helper was assigned one on one to a kid.

 

It's worth the effort and again, I am not suggesting punishment.

 

this.

 

kids need to learn coping strategies for their particular issues.  sometimes things need to be introduced at a much slower pace, and not participate at the same rate as their peers,  but if they're going to live in the world, they need to know how they can adapt to the world. 

the goal is so that they will eventually be able to do what they need to do.

 

adhd is another area that is susceptible to nervous system overstimulation.  adhd kids crave stimulation - BUT they will get overstimulated and they lose control.  you need to help by recognizing the signs and removing him before he reaches that point.  NOT as a punishment, but as *help* within his capacity.   there are signs of overstimulation - you need to learn what to look for with a particular child.  then learn what coping strategies work for that child.

 

by doing these things - he can have the successes of doing things "right".  as he matures, it will be easier for him and he will be able to do more, while having the building self-confidence of "being successful".

[SarahB82]

I didn't want to go up from the back row and walk on stage past the 3 teachers to get him. I do redirect, correct. Every time. Last night I was seeing what happens when I don't and it wasn't pretty.

Punishment is the better word for what I was asking.

[zoobie]

I didn't want to go up from the back row and walk on stage past the 3 teachers to get him. I do redirect, correct. Every time. Last night I was seeing what happens when I don't and it wasn't pretty.

Punishment is the better word for what I was asking.

Do you think he was doing it intentionally to disrupt the service? I would have gone up and removed him if so. If it's beyond his control for whatever reason, what good is punishing him going to do?

 

Auditory processing, sensory processing, ADHD are all things that can be overwhelming to a child. In calm situations, he can control his behavior, but when multiple layers of stimulation are added, it overwhelms his ability to compensate. Figuring out what causes him to be overwhelmed will help him. Punishing will not. Discipline him instead--teach him coping skills and help him behave appropriately. If you know he's overwhelmed in such situations, get him from class and have him sit by you during that portion. Why set him up for failure?

[SarahB82]

Do you think he was doing it intentionally to disrupt the service? I would have gone up and removed him if so. If it's beyond his control for whatever reason, what good is punishing him going to do?

 

Auditory processing, sensory processing, ADHD are all things that can be overwhelming to a child. In calm situations, he can control his behavior, but when multiple layers of stimulation are added, it overwhelms his ability to compensate. Figuring out what causes him to be overwhelmed will help him. Punishing will not. Discipline him instead--teach him coping skills and help him behave appropriately. If you know he's overwhelmed in such situations, get him from class and have him sit by you during that portion. Why set him up for failure?

I should have - I wish I had.

[PeterPan]

It's very hard when you have to get honest that behaviors you thought were within realm for his age are no longer appropriate.  He's turning 7, and yes that's unexpected behavior.  You mentioned quite a few things that indicate a social learning disability.  He's not noticing/understanding personal space.  He's also not getting the sense of *group* and the group plan and "body in the group."  I would guess he's also not peer referencing, so he's not looking around and going HELLO, MY PEERS ARE DOING X and using that to modify his behavior or figure out what is appropriate.  You also say he's in his head at times.

 

None of that is about not liking your ds!  People LOVE kids with disabilities.  They can be wonderful to work with, and sometimes the more disabilities they have the more people enjoy them!  So it's really not about that.  I agree I would be asking why he couldn't do something that his agemates were doing and have appropriate behavior, when he had a pretty normal amount of support and had been given practice and pre-instruction on expected behavior.

 

I don't think it's really helpful to say that if *you* were doing better *he* wouldn't have these problems.  All that does is shift the blame and give others a way to say it's your fault.  How many kids do you have?  Are you an attentive, reasonable mother who makes at least normal attempts to discipline, who stays calm, who explains the expected behaviors or rules, who follows through when behaviors are inappropriate?  You're attentive to a normal degree?  MOST KIDS would be fine with that.  MOST KIDS receive just kind of typical levels of parenting, including really imperfect parenting, and are FINE!!!  But you're allowing someone, including yourself, to blame YOU for HIS issue?  

 

If you want help, move on from that.  Be honest that you've done a pretty reasonable standard job, admit you're concerned, admit where his behavior is moving out of the range of normal on some things.  I don't know the exhaustive list of what you're seeing, but I know that was the line for us, early age 7, where it just became SO OBVIOUS and SO UNDENIABLE that it wasn't us.  

 

I also think you should put more on the table than just ADHD.  If you get a full psych eval (not just a ped eval) they can fine-tune it.  They could say ADHD + social delay.  They could dig in on some things, hook you up with resources.  There are really good intervention materials for this age!  We're using some with my ds now, and it's SO NICE to have a common language and correct terms to work on things and explain what's going on, rather than just treating it as he's being bad, he isn't trying hard enough, etc.  Something like The Incredible Flexible You series will use picture books, just charming picture books.  Sounds like those would hit some of the issues you're dealing with.

 

I would pursue some evals and move on from blaming yourself.  There are some books that are for typical ADHD.  Anything by Holloway (Superparenting ADHD, etc.) is good.  Really though, you're going to need some more tools like some Social Thinking (Winner) materials.

Edited June 11, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[BooksandBoys]

I am willing to try anything that doesn't have the potential to harm. I will look at the fish oil.

I guess my biggest concern is that I am not sure if he needs to be disciplined for the times when he is completely not doing what he is supposed to be doing. I struggle to realize how much of it he can help.

The line I try to walk is the line of intention. If my child (ASD/ADHD, probable CAPD, or the other one who has PTSD/SPD) is deliberately being cruel, disobeying, refusing to comply, refusing to sit still (as opposed to "unable" to sit still, comply (this includes because of complete overstimulation), I will give consequences. But if my child is struggling and trying to do his best, I will not. We'll talk, we'll offer support, we might not go back to that environment, but if he's doing his best, I'm not offering a consequence for that. One of my sons becomes so overwhelmed in group settings that he cannot participate. Another runs around like a wild man. Both are doing their best. It's my job to help them do better or remove them from the situation. I've learned from way too many errors that punishing for these challenges does nothing but make it worse. YMMV, of course.

[gardenmom5]

It's very hard when you have to get honest that behaviors you thought were within realm for his age are no longer appropriate.  He's turning 7, and yes that's unexpected behavior.  You mentioned quite a few things that indicate a social learning disability.  He's not noticing/understanding personal space.  He's also not getting the sense of *group* and the group plan and "body in the group."  I would guess he's also not peer referencing, so he's not looking around and going HELLO, MY PEERS ARE DOING X and using that to modify his behavior or figure out what is appropriate.  You also say he's in his head at times.

 

None of that is about not liking your ds!  People LOVE kids with disabilities.  They can be wonderful to work with, and sometimes the more disabilities they have the more people enjoy them!  So it's really not about that.  

this year my son has had a team of three teachers - they love him, despite his challenges, they also see his strengths.

 

 

I agree I would be asking why he couldn't do something that his age mates were doing and have appropriate behavior, when he had a pretty normal amount of support and had been given practice and pre-instruction on expected behavior.

this

 

I don't think it's really helpful to say that if *you* were doing better *he* wouldn't have these problems.  All that does is shift the blame and give others a way to say it's your fault.  How many kids do you have?  Are you an attentive, reasonable mother who makes at least normal attempts to discipline, who stays calm, who explains the expected behaviors or rules, who follows through when behaviors are inappropriate?  You're attentive to a normal degree?  MOST KIDS would be fine with that.  MOST KIDS receive just kind of typical levels of parenting, including really imperfect parenting, and are FINE!!!  But you're allowing someone, including yourself, to blame YOU for HIS issue?  

 

this.  it is so easy with a child with developmental challenges to see how they are not the same as a NT child.  there are other adults who will tell you it's your fault - don't listen to them, and especially do NOT do it to yourself.  (I had one tell me that three times to my face.  after he was diagnosed, and she found out about it, she acted as though she'd always thought he was a sweet boy.  I was the one who told her dh that he had a developmental delay - and he went white as a sheet.  then sputtered about how he "didn't know that".)

 

If you want help, move on from that.  Be honest that you've done a pretty reasonable standard job, admit you're concerned, admit where his behavior is moving out of the range of normal on some things.  I don't know the exhaustive list of what you're seeing, but I know that was the line for us, early age 7, where it just became SO OBVIOUS and SO UNDENIABLE that it wasn't us.  

 

stop with the would'a could'a should'a - they are not productive and will delay getting him what he needs to be his best self.

 

I also think you should put more on the table than just ADHD.  If you get a full psych eval (not just a ped eval) they can fine-tune it.  They could say ADHD + social delay.  They could dig in on some things, hook you up with resources.  There are really good intervention materials for this age!  We're using some with my ds now, and it's SO NICE to have a common language and correct terms to work on things and explain what's going on, rather than just treating it as he's being bad, he isn't trying hard enough, etc.  Something like The Incredible Flexible You series will use picture books, just charming picture books.  Sounds like those would hit some of the issues you're dealing with.

 

do not bother with a ped eval.  some are helpful - others are not.  (and some are worse than neutral.)  it takes a team to do an assessment.  speech, audiology, psychology, developmental ped,  each has their area of expertise. after getting diagnosis - I ended up with a naturopath who does a lot with developmentally delayed kids.  his progress has been phenomenal - but he still has some serious challenges.  I have to differentiate between what is an actual challenge, and what used to be a challenge and he is pretending it still is because he doesn't want to do it.

 

I would pursue some evals and move on from blaming yourself.  There are some books that are for typical ADHD.  Anything by Holloway (Superparenting ADHD, etc.) is good.  Really though, you're going to need some more tools like some Social Thinking (Winner) materials.

 

cut yourself some slack.  do not beat yourself up - just focus on going forward and finding what he needs.  he's seven.  I know people who didn't recognize their child had developmental delays until they were mid-teens.  

[PeterPan]

I can say that for us it took bringing in a behaviorist to get some of these behaviors under control, that a really consequences oriented approach was not going to get us there.  They work a TON of self-regulation, about how to make choices for self-regulation, how to understand what is going on in the group, how to make good choices, how their behavior affects the group, etc.  

[SarahB82]

It's very hard when you have to get honest that behaviors you thought were within realm for his age are no longer appropriate.  He's turning 7, and yes that's unexpected behavior.  You mentioned quite a few things that indicate a social learning disability.  He's not noticing/understanding personal space.  He's also not getting the sense of *group* and the group plan and "body in the group."  I would guess he's also not peer referencing, so he's not looking around and going HELLO, MY PEERS ARE DOING X and using that to modify his behavior or figure out what is appropriate.  You also say he's in his head at times.

 

None of that is about not liking your ds!  People LOVE kids with disabilities.  They can be wonderful to work with, and sometimes the more disabilities they have the more people enjoy them!  So it's really not about that.  I agree I would be asking why he couldn't do something that his agemates were doing and have appropriate behavior, when he had a pretty normal amount of support and had been given practice and pre-instruction on expected behavior.

 

I don't think it's really helpful to say that if *you* were doing better *he* wouldn't have these problems.  All that does is shift the blame and give others a way to say it's your fault.  How many kids do you have?  Are you an attentive, reasonable mother who makes at least normal attempts to discipline, who stays calm, who explains the expected behaviors or rules, who follows through when behaviors are inappropriate?  You're attentive to a normal degree?  MOST KIDS would be fine with that.  MOST KIDS receive just kind of typical levels of parenting, including really imperfect parenting, and are FINE!!!  But you're allowing someone, including yourself, to blame YOU for HIS issue?  

 

If you want help, move on from that.  Be honest that you've done a pretty reasonable standard job, admit you're concerned, admit where his behavior is moving out of the range of normal on some things.  I don't know the exhaustive list of what you're seeing, but I know that was the line for us, early age 7, where it just became SO OBVIOUS and SO UNDENIABLE that it wasn't us.  

 

I also think you should put more on the table than just ADHD.  If you get a full psych eval (not just a ped eval) they can fine-tune it.  They could say ADHD + social delay.  They could dig in on some things, hook you up with resources.  There are really good intervention materials for this age!  We're using some with my ds now, and it's SO NICE to have a common language and correct terms to work on things and explain what's going on, rather than just treating it as he's being bad, he isn't trying hard enough, etc.  Something like The Incredible Flexible You series will use picture books, just charming picture books.  Sounds like those would hit some of the issues you're dealing with.

 

I would pursue some evals and move on from blaming yourself.  There are some books that are for typical ADHD.  Anything by Holloway (Superparenting ADHD, etc.) is good.  Really though, you're going to need some more tools like some Social Thinking (Winner) materials.

 

This knocked the breath out of me.  I have 3 boys - almost 7, 3 and 1.  My husband and I honestly are good, reasonable parents, and he gets a ton of love and support.  We are not to blame.  

Thank you.  I am going to call his ped Monday and ask for a referral to the Children's neuropsych clinic and get an eval done.  

I am probably going to read this 100 more times.  Thank you.

[SarahB82]

I can say that for us it took bringing in a behaviorist to get some of these behaviors under control, that a really consequences oriented approach was not going to get us there.  They work a TON of self-regulation, about how to make choices for self-regulation, how to understand what is going on in the group, how to make good choices, how their behavior affects the group, etc.  

 

How is treatment progressing?

[SarahB82]

cut yourself some slack.  do not beat yourself up - just focus on going forward and finding what he needs.  he's seven.  I know people who didn't recognize their child had developmental delays until they were mid-teens.  

Thank you - I am going to cut us both some slack.  

[BooksandBoys]

OhElizabeth, once again, an excellent post.

[foxbridgeacademy]

You wanted to know if anyone had a kid like this but all grown up? Not mine, but my nephew was the type of kid who acted exactly like that when he was young(probably worse).  He was HSed since 1st grade when the school pretty much begged her to withdraw him.  His mom got him off all processed foods and increased healthy fats.  He's extremely responsible now and no longer a menace  there are still some small issues, nobody is perfect (he doesn't like to "back down", I don't either ). It started getting better around 11 years old and she felt he was ready for PS again this past fall (8th grade). He's doing really well. 

[foxbridgeacademy]

DP

Edited June 11, 2016 by foxbridgeacademy

[SarahB82]

You wanted to know if anyone had a kid like this but all grown up? Not mine, but my nephew was the type of kid who acted exactly like that when he was young(probably worse). He was HSed since 1st grade when the school pretty much begged her to withdraw him. His mom got him off all processed foods and increased healthy fats. He's extremely responsible now and no longer a menace there are still some small issues, nobody is perfect (he doesn't like to "back down", I don't either ). It started getting better around 11 years old and she felt he was ready for PS again this past fall (8th grade). He's doing really well.

Thanks for the response. He doesn't eat a ton of processed foods but honesty doesn't eat a lot of fat either. I may need to look at increasing his fats.

[JanetC]

You need to work on making him successful - some of this will be changing the expectations placed upon him. For example, he could have participated in only one song at the show. Some of this will be adding modifications for him (hand fidgets available, heavy work activities before the show or when he needs a break from a group). Look at some occupational therapy websites for ideas, or see an OT for suggestions.

 

You will not be able to punish this trait out of him, and as he moves into the "pre-adolescent" ages of 9 and 10, trying to punish this away can do damage to his self-image. He will need lots of extra training to learn to do things that other kids pick up more naturally.

 

I understand your reluctance to medicate, but that should not be an excuse to avoid analyzing his problems on a deeper level. For example, a friend had a daughter with an undiagnosed vision problem. She crashed into people and things because she literally could not see where to stop. I would not start treating for ADD, CAPD, sensory processing, Asperger's, and/or nutrition deficiencies on a random basis without professional advice. You may hit on the right diagnosis and coping strategies yourself, but you may just become very frustrated if you don't. Someone who has seen a lot of different kids and diagnoses could be a valuable source of advice.

[....]

Anyone have this kid who is now all grown up?  What did you do?  What do you wish you had done?

 

 

Sigh...yes.  There are several threads on here from like 6-7 years ago where I was hysterically asking for help with my daughter.  She couldn't stop moving, talking, irritating other children, throwing huge screaming fits...geez what else...banging her head against the wall, throwing herself on furniture, pulling her hair, she knocked out her front tooth...she was deathly afraid of Anthrax and couldn't stop washing her hands...if we didn't stay in a particular order while riding our bikes together, she would throw her bike into the street and scream...she had strange body movements.  She used scot towels to touch everything, because she was afraid of germs.  Oh, geez.  I probably spent several years of my life crying.  My husband's hair has literally turned white in the last few years.

 

I was convinced for several years that she probably had ADHD and mild autism or Aspergers (I think they stopped diagnosing Aspergers).  Every time I tried to get help for her, things got weird.  One doctor said that she acted that way because we had a large family and she was trying to get attention.  That didn't explain things like the weird body movements.  We're friends with another family whose daughter was going through something similar and the psychiatrist told them it was because they were very religious (they're very Catholic).  Umm...I just got to the point where I was terrified to get help for her.  Plus we homeschool...and that seemed to put us under the microscope every time we went to the doctor.

 

Not saying you shouldn't get help.  You should!!  Just telling you why we didn't.  I don't know if I would've done things differently.  I'm not really one of those people to look back on things.  If we would've been back in MO (we're in TX), I would've taken her to our early childhood center and just gotten an evaluation (they did that for our oldest), but our school district here in TX is awful compared to back in MO.

 

So, she isn't like that now - at all!  We went on an all-out campaign to help her.  The Out of Sync Child books helped.  When she got upset, we made her "push the wall".  We put her on vitamins, cut out processed food and gluten...I started taking her to the park everyday.  If we passed a park while driving, we would stop and let her run around/climb on everything.  I put her in Tae Kwon Do (oh, my goodness, that made a drastic difference).  She did not start "school" until she was about 8.  We did school outside and at the park.  I've never had her tested, but I think she is probably gifted.  She has a very strong artistic bent, so we put her in classes at an art studio.  The classes ended up being too easy, so we have her working one-on-one with an art major at a studio.  At one point (in the beginning), we started every day with art.  I went to Hobby Lobby and went on an art supply shopping spree.  She is really talented - to the point where she's 11 and can sketch someone's portrait (and it looks incredible - not like if I sketched it -  :tongue_smilie:  ).  At this point, she wants to major in fine arts as an undergrad, but she's thinking about going to medical school.

 

Even today, she has boundless energy.  Just an example, this morning, she did Tae Kwon Do for two hours, now she's at a trampoline park with a bunch of friends and later, she will probably swim for several hours.  If she really does become a doctor, she will have an endless supply of energy to see patients - LOL.  

 

Next week, she's going to help teach at a camp for five days...a few years ago, I never, ever, ever - in my worst nightmare - would've left her at a camp without me.   :crying:

 

Good luck with whatever decision you end up making!  

[....]

You will not be able to punish this trait out of him, and as he moves into the "pre-adolescent" ages of 9 and 10, trying to punish this away can do damage to his self-image. 

 

:iagree:  Yes, we tried so hard not to do this.

[....]

Thanks for the response. He doesn't eat a ton of processed foods but honesty doesn't eat a lot of fat either. I may need to look at increasing his fats.

 

Since this was mentioned, my daughter is really small, too.  I think her weight is around 20th percentile.

 

Edited to add: it sounds weird, but there are people out there who suspect there's some kind of nutritional/physical cause to some of these behaviors.  I noticed worsening behavior with red dye and gluten (and I'm not usually food-paranoid).

Edited June 11, 2016 by Evanthe

[foxbridgeacademy]

Since this was mentioned, my daughter is really small, too.  I think her weight is around 20th percentile.

 

Edited to add: it sounds weird, but there are people out there who suspect there's some kind of nutritional/physical cause to some of these behaviors.  I noticed worsening behavior with red dye and gluten (and I'm not usually food-paranoid).

:iagree: Nephew was also very thin and overall small, like no body fat at all.  Brains require fat to grow and develop, if they're not getting enough fat then I'd assume their little brains aren't being "fed".  

[PeterPan]

Like Evanthe's dc, my ds is dramatically helped by sports and movement.  He's a kinesthetic learner, usually in motion and he does push over to ADHD-combined type as part of his mix (in addition to SLDs, ASD, apraxia, etc.).  His tutor rewards him with outdoor breaks for compliance.  People wonder about the amount of stuff I have him in (swim 3 days a week, gymnastics 3 days a week, crossfit, etc.), but even all that plus OT has not been too much.  I did *finally* find something that leaves him tired.  We got him a 7 speed back and he biked in 7th gear for an hour straight on trails.  THAT left him tired.   :lol:  I'm thinking of training him for triathlons.  I got him hooked up with a speed skills class for the summer and am letting him try some sports we don't have time for year round (soccer, basketball).  And yes, we go to the park, run on the track, bike, and then go to the pool, all in the same day.  

 

I do give him flax oil for the omega 3.  It helps his speech.  I also try to make sure he gets fat-rich foods, because he's on the trim side and fatigues with chewing.  I'm taking him to the ped soon, so we'll see where his stats are now.  It's hard because even if you decide you wanted to try meds for the ADHD piece, you don't want to do that with a child who doesn't have room to lose weight.  So we really just roll with it.  

 

I'll put my plug for the Y (YMCA) in here.  The Y has been AMAZING for us.  They respect development and will meet him right where he is.  They have wonderful people who are focused on character, and they flex classes and ages to get things to work for us.  We've used them consistently, year round, for two years now.  He definitely needed the ABA and private services, but what the Y does for him is important and maturing too.  It gives him the chance to be on a team, to be with boys where he shares interests, to get the mind speech of a coach, etc.  It's good!  They go in little boys and they come out little men.   :)

Edited June 11, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[gardenmom5]

Since this was mentioned, my daughter is really small, too.  I think her weight is around 20th percentile.

 

Edited to add: it sounds weird, but there are people out there who suspect there's some kind of nutritional/physical cause to some of these behaviors.  I noticed worsening behavior with red dye and gluten (and I'm not usually food-paranoid).

 

dudeling is definitely affected by nutrition.  he refused to eat (I think he didn't recognize hunger.) - I was finally able to get him to take a high quality gummy - and we all noticed an improvement in his behavior.  several other specific nutrients we added in - and we ALL noticed improvement.  there was one I didn't rush out to replace when it was all gone - and I wondered what was going on.  then I realized I was out of __, and needed more.  I've never been out since.

 

he would also become more aggressive when he'd been eating artificial nitrates.  (naturally occurring ones didn't affect him the same way.)

and High-fructose corn syrup (it contains mercury. he was drinking pop while having a blood draw to measure heavy metals.  his dr was freaking out at his mercury level.  hfcs uses caustic soda to extract sugar from the corn,  and caustic soda contains mercury.  we then did three months of daily injections of glutathione - for a child who was petrified screaming and kicking about needles - within a month I had people who knew none of this commenting on the change in his behavior.)

[SarahB82]

Update:

He had an evaluation yesterday and they diagnosed him with ADHD. On the QB test he was more inattentive than 98% of boys his age and more active than 90%. He was less impulsive than 6% so we don't have the impulsivity. He did motor tests and some verbal ones with the doctor and they suggested meds as an option but didn't push for it. We have seen a ton of improvement socially this summer with a lot of work by all of us.

We have been hosting a lot of group activities for boys his age and coaching him through them. He has done so much better. This week is our church's VBS and he has been great with participation, respecting personal space and staying with his group. We are adding fish oil at the suggestion of the doctor and going to repeat the QB test in January to look for improvement. This school year we are going to be doing a ton of swimming at the Y. We have been swimming a lot this summer and I feel like it is really good for him. Thank you all for responding to me- there is such a wealth of knowledge on this board.

[Okra]

Honestly,   I would have him tested for ADHD with a psychologist….it is okay to use medicine.  Really.  Sometimes with an ADHD child it is so hard.  It is not all about redirection.  Sometimes it is okay to use medicine.

 

You can try it and see how it goes.  ADHD medicine is not a terrible thing, it can help him pause just a moment and think about whether he should do something.

[poppy]

This sounds a lot like my daughter. Like, painful to read a lot.  She was in public school last year.  For her IEP she got:

1. 30 minutes a week gross motor in a group setting.  This was a disguised social skills class, really.

2. Sensory diet items regularly. She had a special little foam seat she loved.

3. two 30 minute counseling sessions per week- 1 alone, 1 with a peer

And some very wonderful, nurturing teachers.

 

Six months of that really helped.  But we are still homeschooling next year.  She just doesn't do well with peers all day. She gets overwhelmed and just can't act appropriately, with the sensory issues, ADHD plus some other stuff (dyslexia, anxiety, mood disorder....)

 

We do not medicate for the ADHD because stimulants and anxiety don't mix (and the alternatives were not great for her).  But I'd certainly consider medication if it were viable for us.

 

Anyway just posting if you were curious what special ed services might be put into place in a public school.

[caedmyn]

FWIW, my 7yo has ADHD (not diagnosed). He has a lot of problems in group settings. I took him to an OT for sensory seeking behavior recently and she gave me a sensory diet to do with him. He acts MUCH more normal in a group setting if I stay on top of doing the sensory diet stuff with him.

[heartlikealion]

My ds doesn't act quite "normal" in group settings at times. We are awaiting an evaluation. I don't really have advice, but wanted to say that I know the awkward feeling of seeing your child stick out like a sore thumb. Ds (age 8) went to VBS for the first time this year. I was there as a volunteer so around him part of the day. When he joined my group I gave the children directions and he clearly had not listened. He was messing up the game(s) for the other children (one of which was because I had failed to teach him the game which is a common children's game so that was a bit more understandable). I felt a bit embarrassed and helpless and made sure to correct him. At the end of the day the kids had a little performance where they would dance to the beachy/hula themed music and follow some simple dance moves they'd been taught that day. At some point he just pretended to ride a surfboard through the crowd of kids. I chuckled at first but then he didn't stop and was zooming around the room. I went right up to him and put my hand on his arm and told him to knock it off and do what the other kids were doing. He sulked about it and drew attention to himself a bit later by moping on the floor. Maybe I spoke too firmly/aggressively but I still think some of his behavior/reactions are different than his peers. I have trouble sometimes determining what he is ready for and not looking like a helicopter parent. Seriously, it's like you can't win in social circles sometimes. Had you swooped in you might have someone on the forum or in the audience going, "why didn't they let the teachers handle it?" Hang in there.

[ktgrok]

This knocked the breath out of me.  I have 3 boys - almost 7, 3 and 1.  My husband and I honestly are good, reasonable parents, and he gets a ton of love and support.  We are not to blame.  

Thank you.  I am going to call his ped Monday and ask for a referral to the Children's neuropsych clinic and get an eval done.  

I am probably going to read this 100 more times.  Thank you.

 

Heck, print it for those bad days!  I blamed myself for SO long. So long. Ugh. My difficult child is 10 years older than his sister, and it wasn't until she was a preschooler that I realized it wasn't my parenting, it was the kid. So yeah, that was a long time to self blame. I still sometimes do it. And I have a pretty happy go lucky personality, thank God, but it is easy to get upset and ashamed and think of all the things you should have done better. 

 

Hugs. 

 

Also, whenever this stuff happens, remember it isn't the end of the world. Don't go global, don't think "he'll never be able to be i a group" because I promise you, things do change, especially with help. Things you thought couldn't ever change, do. I think ages 7-11 were the hardest for my kid, and a lot of kids. 

[ktgrok]

Update:

He had an evaluation yesterday and they diagnosed him with ADHD. On the QB test he was more inattentive than 98% of boys his age and more active than 90%. He was less impulsive than 6% so we don't have the impulsivity. He did motor tests and some verbal ones with the doctor and they suggested meds as an option but didn't push for it. We have seen a ton of improvement socially this summer with a lot of work by all of us.

We have been hosting a lot of group activities for boys his age and coaching him through them. He has done so much better. This week is our church's VBS and he has been great with participation, respecting personal space and staying with his group. We are adding fish oil at the suggestion of the doctor and going to repeat the QB test in January to look for improvement. This school year we are going to be doing a ton of swimming at the Y. We have been swimming a lot this summer and I feel like it is really good for him. Thank you all for responding to me- there is such a wealth of knowledge on this board.

 

One on one coaching by me, in group situations, made more difference in my son than anything else we did, as far as social skills. He trusts me (as much as he acts like he hates me sometimes) and I think that made a difference, versus shutting down when he went to social skills groups/therapists. So if I saw him doing something inappropriate I could, in the moment, edge him away from the group and explain how his action was perceived by others. Never in hearing of others, never to embarrass him, and always brief. So, when he was about 13 and sort of "dating" a girl in our homeschool group, he was at a party and talking to everyone but her. I pulled him aside and said "hey, you seem to be having a great time, but Girl is all by herself, and since she thinks you are her special friend, you probably should spend some time with her too so her feelings aren't hurt" and then I walked off. He may or may not follow the advice, but being made aware of it, in the situation, helped tremendously. I credit our intensive amount of one on one time with most of his improvement. Most of the time now people have zero clue he has Aspergers.  That said as his work load in school grew, and it became more memorization, etc he has struggled with his ADHD. That has become more of an issue, and after years of refusing to try meds he asked for them last week. He's frustrated, knowing he is smart and not getting the grades he wants to get, so we are starting them and hoping that makes a difference. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by ktgrok