Second Presidential Debate Poll

[kokotg]

Incidentally, does anyone else want to go see that $3 million projector in Illinois now? It must be pretty awesome :lol:

[Donna T.]

And finally, the notion that this lovely platform of initiatives that my aides and I drew up over the past year is utterly obselete and laughable in the face of what we the candidates have called the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression? Nope. Gonna give you tax cuts--and energy initiatives, health care, and social security reform simultaneously--with a spending freeze! Whoopee! That's sacrificin', American-style!

 

 

I know! Both of them were throwing money around like crazy! I lost track. It was staggering the amount of money that they were proposing be applied... well, everywhere. We can't afford any of it.

 

I wish I could ask them about this:

 

Senate Slips Huge Pentagon War Funding Bill In Under the Radar

 

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Senate-Slips-Huge-Pentagon-by-Tommy-News-080930-123.html

 

How are we going to pay for this? That's what I'd like to know.

 

And, the money we are providing to India for their nuclear project? Billions MORE from our paychecks.

[cathmom]

Oh yeah, which candidate was it that said that we had to develop clean energy and then GIVE the technology to China????

[Donna T.]

If I heard Albright's rebuttal correctly, it sounded like she was chastising Palin for using the word "help" instead of "support" or vice versa. And then talking about factual inaccuracy. Is it just me or does that sound pretty meager?

 

Yes, it's meager. And, no matter how you say it... the quote is beyond rational. Hell is no laughing matter. No matter who jokes about it or how they word it or why they do so.

[nmoira]

If I heard Albright's rebuttal correctly, it sounded like she was chastising Palin for using the word "help" instead of "support" or vice versa. And then talking about factual inaccuracy. Is it just me or does that sound pretty meager?

There's a big difference between supporting a woman in a political context as a candidate, and across the board concern for women's interests. Albright's words were originally spoken, without ambiguity, in the latter context.

[nmoira]

Oh yeah, which candidate was it that said that we had to develop clean energy and then GIVE the technology to China????

Do you honestly think that's literally what he meant, especially since he's been talking about the economic benefits the US would enjoy as a leader in developing such technology? This is not a "surprise" policy he announced last night; it's something he has discussed in some detail.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Oh yeah, which candidate was it that said that we had to develop clean energy and then GIVE the technology to China????

 

Not only would there be economic benefits, there would be HUGE benefits for the planet as well.

[cathmom]

Do you honestly think that's literally what he meant, especially since he's been talking about the economic benefits the US would enjoy as a leader in developing such technology? This is not a "surprise" policy he announced last night; it's something he has discussed in some detail.

 

I honestly just want to know who said it - I can't remember!

[Mom to Aly]

In my mind, Obama.

In fact, I thought McCain was pretty rude. His comment to Tom Brokaw about who he would choose as Treasury Secretary, "Not YOU, Tom" was uncalled for and frankly, bizarre. Maybe he was buying time.

 

In addition, he never once called Senator Obama by his name or title, instead pointing to him and saying , "THAT one........"

 

When that young African American man asked the question about the mortgage bail out, McCain said that he bet the man had never even heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. I found that insulting.

 

At the close of the debate, as the credits were rolling (I was watching CNN's coverage) Obama walked up to him and put out his hand to shake hands with McCain. McCain looked at him and turned away. Cindy McCain shook his hand.

 

And that's not even touching his message. Not enough time before beddy-bye time for that!

 

Just my observations. I'm sure others will disagree vehemently.

 

Astrid

:iagree: Astrid, I think you said it all. The "That one", the not shaking hands, and the treatment of the young African American man all said too much to me.

 

Whatever grace McCain had is long gone, IMO. I agree with all the polls--Obama definitely won, and McCain is on his way out. Thank Goodness!! :D

[lynn]

I just don't think I want to bail out people who could not be satisfied with a modest home but had to have a McMansion. We are not talking about people losing their homes and living in cardboard boxes. We are talking about people who bought more house than they could really afford and now would be forced to move out and rent somewhere. It could be a good life lesson.

 

 

Go Kelly, I agree.

[lynn]

1. I'd have never heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac if my mother was not a mortgage lender (and a reputable one who curses those Countrywide types)

 

2. McCain has a more intimate relationship with Tom Brokaw because he's been interviewed by him on many occasions over a 30 span, I allow jokes like that and they don't freak me out..I don't know if they have an inside joke about who pays for the last dinner out...doesn't bother me though.

 

3. I really felt like it was a draw...those who liked Obama preferred him and vice versa for McCain...the issue is about POLICIES!! If you agree with Obama's policies then you want him to promote those, I agree with almost NONE of his policies and wanted McCain to elaborate on how his policies would mean LESS government and REDUCED spending...I felt he answered that..it's really plain and simple...you either want MORE government control or LESS...

 

Obama is MORE...McCain is LESS...why must we put all our opinions about their stuttering, their uhm's ah's, not answering questions, babbling on and on..other stuff that really just speaks to them being human rather than what they represent...I respect both of them as men willing to sacrifice a lot for our country, but I choose my leader based on where they want to lead rather than how.

 

Tara

 

Yep, what she said.

[DB in NJ]

So who won?

 

With these two clowns being our only choice on November 4th, NOBODY wins. Yes, I know there are 3rd party candidates, but I don't like any of them either. :glare:

 

As Mike Huckabee said this morning, "I saw two Senators last night. I didn't see a President."

 

Amen and amen.

 

I'm back to thinking about not voting at all. How sad...

[danielle]

Incidentally, does anyone else want to go see that $3 million projector in Illinois now? It must be pretty awesome :lol:

I live in Illinois and I can comment on the "projector". The projector was the entire mechanism for the Adler Planetarium's sky theater, which does A LOT of school groups, adult ed and public presentations. The previous one was 40 years old and broke down constantly, which I can personally attest to, having hauled kids down to the museum only to have the show go kaput.

 

Most homeschoolers take great delight in the use of our public museums, and the great enhancement they provide to our efforts--such as in sky shows that actually teach about astronomy. Chicago museums are a mecca for citizens from all over the world. If we hope to use these great public resources, somebody has to pay for them--us. I'll take that kind of earmarks--sure beats a gold plated athletic center in Wassilia (sp.?).

 

BTW, wasn't the figure $28 million in pork barrel that Pallin landed for Wassilia? With a population (I think I heard) of 6,000, that works out to nearly $50,000 per person in pork barrel. There are about 2,836,000 in the City of Chicago alone. THAT $3,000,000 works out to about $1.00 per person. All depends on how you crunch the numbers. Somehow, I think more public benefit is produced by a high quality museum available to millions of people than a hi quality athletic center in a remote corner of a state most of us will never be lucky enough to visit.

Danielle

[Jennay]

What I found stunning is that McCain says he knows how to catch Bin Ladin and he can do it. Well, great. So why hasn't he done that already? Whatever.

 

astrid

 

Well, unless I'm mistaken, McCain is just a senator and doesn't really have the power to do that in his current position.

 

I listened to the debate a little in the car on my way home from book club. The difference in the way they come across on the radio is amazing. Obama sounds so reassuring and confident while McCain sounds old and whiny. However, I'll still vote for McCain because I like most (not all) of his policies better.

[kokotg]

Well, unless I'm mistaken, McCain is just a senator and doesn't really have the power to do that in his current position.

 

 

 

Right, but he keeps implying that he has some kind of foolproof secret plan that he's going to implement as soon as he's president. He has a sympathetic Republican administration to work with right now; I'm sure Bush wouldn't mind salvaging his legacy a bit by using McCain's plan and capturing Bin Laden.

[blessed2fosteradopt]

When Obama was claiming that "only a very small percentage of small businesses make over $250,000" and would thus be affected by his tax hike, I couldn't believe it. Our clinic, in semirural Minnesota easily makes over that amount. Is he kidding? I about jumped out of my chair yelling liar at the screen. His tax cut to 95% of the population is a joke. He will raise so many corporate taxes and "rich" people taxes, the ones who own businesses and create jobs, that the cost will be passed on to the rest of us regardless through rising costs and less jobs. I thought McCain, less polished as he is, showed more substance. I will take substance over polish any day.

 

:iagree:, especially the part about the small businesses. That one left my mouth wide open.

[kokotg]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccains_small-business_bunk.html

[LisaKinVA]

Well as my husband is wont to say, "In less than a month, we get to find out if we're screwed, or REALLY screwed."

 

Take it however you want to... :D

 

After last night's debate, though, my mom, who has adamantly voted 3rd party for the last 4 elections changed her vote from Barr to a major party candidate... will the wonders never cease :lol:

[LisaKinVA]

Small businesses..

 

The ones affected are S-corps. In my industry, approximately 90% of all of the independent scrapbook, stamp and hobby stores are S-corps. These businesses have an average of 5 full time employees.

 

Want to know how many phone calls and e-mails I've received about shutting down now to avoid the huge losses they see coming, should certain promises be kept?

 

All I can say, is that I may no longer need to worry about my taxes going up, because I instead may be looking for a new job.:tongue_smilie:

[nmoira]

I honestly just want to know who said it - I can't remember!

That would be Obama. :) Sorry for my misunderstanding. I thought the question was rhetorical. :blush:

[cathmom]

Thanks! It's a problem I have - I remember commercials but not what they are for, I can't remember what brand of anything I own, and now obviously I can't remember which of two candidates said something! :tongue_smilie:

[Spy Car]

 

(hey, Spycar, how's that hero Dad of yours? I can't help but think of him every now and then.)

 

Blessings,

 

Camy

 

Thanks for asking Camy.

 

Funny, if he knew the word "hero" was being applied to him, he'd object (strenuously!). I know differently, but there is something in the character of old veterans that is quite humbling to me.

 

I spoke with him just now, and I did catch him just after he'd checked his retirement investments online, so his mood was a little more dour than usual. He watched the debate with great interest, and while he certainly favors Obama, having lived through the Great Depression he is under no illusions that the next president is going to have a easy time or will be able to deliver on all the "promises" being offered up.

 

My father, who is 88 and not quite as stable on his feet as he once was (in part due to long-term repercussions of his own war injuries) did remark on Sen McCain not looking physically vital last night, and it concerned him. And this was a "legitimate" concern on his part (not a partisan dig...because that's not my dad's style). But I'd noticed this myself.

 

So far, Sen McCain has displayed amazing energy on the campaign trail, I don't think I could hold up nearly so well under all the pressures and travel. And maybe it was just an "off night" (and to be fair I've seen Obama have "off-nights" too) but last night was the first time I felt real concerns about Sen McCain's age. Maybe a fair concern, maybe not.

 

Sen Obama really impressed me last night. He (to me) came off as commanding and presidential. I could really see him as the president of this nation. And to my own surprise, I'm really starting to believe this is going to happen. Fingers crossed.

 

Bill

Edited October 8, 2008 by Spy Car

[nmoira]

 

Thanks! It's a problem I have - I remember commercials but not what they are for, I can't remember what brand of anything I own, and now obviously I can't remember which of two candidates said something! :tongue_smilie:

Oh, I was talking about the debate -- I'm happy to say I haven't seen a single political ad thus far this season. I would assume it was Obama's ad, as this is something he speaks of often.

[nmoira]

So far, Sen McCain has displayed amazing energy on the campaign trail, I don't think I could hold up nearly so well under all the pressures and travel. And maybe it was just an "off night" (and to be fair I've seen Obama have "off-nights" too) but last night was the first time I felt real concerns about Sen McCain's age. Maybe a fair concern, maybe not.

Well, today he referred to Americans as

Edited October 8, 2008 by nmoira

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I live in Illinois and I can comment on the "projector". The projector was the entire mechanism for the Adler Planetarium's sky theater, which does A LOT of school groups, adult ed and public presentations. The previous one was 40 years old and broke down constantly, which I can personally attest to, having hauled kids down to the museum only to have the show go kaput.

 

Most homeschoolers take great delight in the use of our public museums, and the great enhancement they provide to our efforts--such as in sky shows that actually teach about astronomy. Chicago museums are a mecca for citizens from all over the world. If we hope to use these great public resources, somebody has to pay for them--us. I'll take that kind of earmarks--sure beats a gold plated athletic center in Wassilia (sp.?).

 

BTW, wasn't the figure $28 million in pork barrel that Pallin landed for Wassilia? With a population (I think I heard) of 6,000, that works out to nearly $50,000 per person in pork barrel. There are about 2,836,000 in the City of Chicago alone. THAT $3,000,000 works out to about $1.00 per person. All depends on how you crunch the numbers. Somehow, I think more public benefit is produced by a high quality museum available to millions of people than a hi quality athletic center in a remote corner of a state most of us will never be lucky enough to visit.

Danielle

 

I'll be honest: I will never begrudge science funding or public education funding such as helping out planetariums, science museums, history museums, etc. When my tax money goes to fund DNA research on brown bears, be in a paternity issue or whatever it may be (yeahhahahahaha -- oh, I laugh every time :glare:), I'm FOR it. I'm sick of my country being dead last in science education. I'm sick of other countries surpassing us in technology. I'm sick of importing engineers because we're short. I'm sick to DEATH that our daughters aren't enabled by our education system and culture to go into the hard sciences and math-intensive professions.

 

I'm sick to death that our country is so flippin' anti-intellectual that it gets a good laugh of ridicule that we allocate *gasp* taxpayer funds for basic science research and community science education. I don't find it funny that we even say things like research = pork or science education = pork. That ain't pork. That's keeping our country competitive in the *world*.

 

Oppose "pork," vote against it, fine. Military housing to flood relief to ovarian cancer clinical trials. Fine. But I think there are much better things to bring to the fore -- Rum subsidies on the bailout legislation? PLEASE! :glare: I guess all the rum was gone... -- than scientific research and science education.

 

And we could have used an earmark or two or five for some military housing while I lived on a few army bases. I would think that in all these years, we could have figured a way to have military HOUSING not be funding via earmarks. But that's just me.

[Donna T.]

Well, today her referred to Americans as

 

Oh, my word! You should not have posted this. Now I'm feeling sympathy for the guy. :lol:

[cathmom]

Oh, I was talking about the debate -- I'm happy to say I haven't seen a single political ad thus far this season. I would assume it was Obama's ad, as this is something he speaks of often.

 

I was talking about the debate too!

 

we have ads on all the time because this Rep. stronghold has become a battleground state

[nmoira]

I was talking about the debate too!

 

we have ads on all the time because this Rep. stronghold has become a battleground state

We've met in the middle of I'm not sure what. :lol:

[nmoira]

 

Incidentally, does anyone else want to go see that $3 million projector in Illinois now? It must be pretty awesome :lol:

The Adler Planetarium in Chicago is the oldest planetarium in the western hemisphere, not just in the US. There's a document available on their home page which addresses McCain's comments.

[laylamcb]

Oppose "pork," vote against it, fine. Military housing to flood relief to ovarian cancer clinical trials. Fine. But I think there are much better things to bring to the fore -- Rum subsidies on the bailout legislation? PLEASE! :glare: I guess all the rum was gone... -- than scientific research and science education.

 

 

 

Pam, dear, frankly I'm surprised at you. "Pork"? In the bailout--er, I'm sorry, financial rescue plan?? :001_huh: You know, it's practically unpatriotic to even speak of such things at this time of crisis, when we're facing the imminent collapse of all we hold dear, like the drive-thru Starbucks. Our legislators heroically passed this historic legislation in the face of great odds--namely the fact that most Americans opposed it.

 

So please, mum's the word on the giveaways in the rescue package. That's the ONE thing that both candidates can agree on. ;)

[momzilla333]

Originally Posted by danielle

I live in Illinois and I can comment on the "projector". The projector was the entire mechanism for the Adler Planetarium's sky theater, which does A LOT of school groups, adult ed and public presentations. The previous one was 40 years old and broke down constantly, which I can personally attest to, having hauled kids down to the museum only to have the show go kaput.

 

Most homeschoolers take great delight in the use of our public museums, and the great enhancement they provide to our efforts--such as in sky shows that actually teach about astronomy. Chicago museums are a mecca for citizens from all over the world. If we hope to use these great public resources, somebody has to pay for them--us. I'll take that kind of earmarks--sure beats a gold plated athletic center in Wassila (sp.?).

 

BTW, wasn't the figure $28 million in pork barrel that Palin landed for Wassila? With a population (I think I heard) of 6,000, that works out to nearly $50,000 per person in pork barrel. There are about 2,836,000 in the City of Chicago alone. THAT $3,000,000 works out to about $1.00 per person. All depends on how you crunch the numbers. Somehow, I think more public benefit is produced by a high quality museum available to millions of people than a hi quality athletic center in a remote corner of a state most of us will never be lucky enough to visit.

 

I'll be honest: I will never begrudge science funding or public education funding such as helping out planetariums, science museums, history museums, etc. When my tax money goes to fund DNA research on brown bears, be in a paternity issue or whatever it may be (yeahhahahahaha -- oh, I laugh every time :glare:), I'm FOR it. I'm sick of my country being dead last in science education. I'm sick of other countries surpassing us in technology. I'm sick of importing engineers because we're short. I'm sick to DEATH that our daughters aren't enabled by our education system and culture to go into the hard sciences and math-intensive professions.

 

I'm sick to death that our country is so flippin' anti-intellectual that it gets a good laugh of ridicule that we allocate *gasp* taxpayer funds for basic science research and community science education. I don't find it funny that we even say things like research = pork or science education = pork. That ain't pork. That's keeping our country competitive in the *world*.

 

 

 

:iagree:

It's no "overhead projector" and I'm insulted that he thought we'd fall for that. We just can't keep up our current "war on science"

:hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray:

[kokotg]

I'll be honest: I will never begrudge science funding or public education funding such as helping out planetariums, science museums, history museums, etc. When my tax money goes to fund DNA research on brown bears, be in a paternity issue or whatever it may be (yeahhahahahaha -- oh, I laugh every time :glare:), I'm FOR it.

 

Or seal DNA in Alaska!

 

Yeah, it's interesting to me that Obama appears to have conceded the point to McCain on earmarks. I think it's one of those things that's too complicated to explain, so he's decided he'll sound too "professorial" if he tries, and he should let it go. I hate that professorial is a bad word. Anyway. It seems to me that earmarks are a flawed system for funding a lot of important things. No one denies that earmarks fund a lot of good stuff (as is evidenced by McCain suggesting that it will be a tremendous sacrifice to give them up); the debate is on whether the system is so inherently corrupt that we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater (apply a hatchet instead of a scalpel? pick your metaphor!) Obama history on earmark reform is actually pretty good. Unlike most senators, he discloses his earmarks, and he was a sponsor of the Transparency and Integrity in Earmarks Act, which would require everyone to do so. And he has asked for earmarks (albeit not lately), but he's a far cry from the worst offender. Now, as far as I can tell, McCain walks the walk on earmarks--Arizona receives the smallest amount of earmark money per capita (Alaska receives the most). But this is a big point in his favor only if you grant his premise that the earmark system is so corrupt that it shouldn't be used at all. One could say the same thing about Obama and not taking money from lobbyists, I imagine, if one were John McCain.

[Jane in NC]

I'll be honest: I will never begrudge science funding or public education funding such as helping out planetariums, science museums, history museums, etc. When my tax money goes to fund DNA research on brown bears, be in a paternity issue or whatever it may be (yeahhahahahaha -- oh, I laugh every time :glare:), I'm FOR it. I'm sick of my country being dead last in science education. I'm sick of other countries surpassing us in technology. I'm sick of importing engineers because we're short. I'm sick to DEATH that our daughters aren't enabled by our education system and culture to go into the hard sciences and math-intensive professions.

 

I'm sick to death that our country is so flippin' anti-intellectual that it gets a good laugh of ridicule that we allocate *gasp* taxpayer funds for basic science research and community science education.

 

<snip>

 

But that's just me.

 

No, it is not just you, Pam. Wish I could rep you, double rep you, and bake you some blueberry muffins.

 

Jane

[GVD22]

Yes, it's meager. And, no matter how you say it... the quote is beyond rational. Hell is no laughing matter. No matter who jokes about it or how they word it or why they do so.

 

I completely agree. I don't see how anyone who believes in the reality of hell could joke about it.:confused:

[dcjlkplus3]

I think McCain answered most (I didn't see the first 15 minutes or so) of the questions far better than Obama did. I just wished he had gone further in pointing out differences between him and Obama.

[Robin in Tx]

The ones affected are S-corps. In my industry, approximately 90% of all of the independent scrapbook, stamp and hobby stores are S-corps. These businesses have an average of 5 full time employees.

 

If small independent scrapbook, stamp and hobby stores with just a few employees are clearing more than a quarter a million dollars a year... well, all I can say is my husband and I are definitely in the wrong line of work! LOL

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Pam, dear, frankly I'm surprised at you. "Pork"? In the bailout--er, I'm sorry, financial rescue plan?? :001_huh: You know, it's practically unpatriotic to even speak of such things at this time of crisis, when we're facing the imminent collapse of all we hold dear, like the drive-thru Starbucks. Our legislators heroically passed this historic legislation in the face of great odds--namely the fact that most Americans opposed it.

 

So please, mum's the word on the giveaways in the rescue package. That's the ONE thing that both candidates can agree on. ;)

 

I'm sorry. You're right.

 

What was I thinking. :glare:

 

:confused:

 

 

:001_huh:

 

:lol:

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

No, it is not just you, Pam. Wish I could rep you, double rep you, and bake you some blueberry muffins.

 

Jane

 

I'll bring the French press and some good coffee. 8 a.m. ok? :auto:

 

*hugs and thanks*

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Hey, that was my drinking word!! Everytime he said it I raised my arm and yelled "opa" (from My Big Fat Greek Wedding). Unfortunately all I had to drink was Earl Gray tea.:glare:

 

Kelli... we are going to be best of relatives, I just know it.

 

Opa! :cheers2:

[lynn]

The Adler Planetarium in Chicago is the oldest planetarium in the western hemisphere, not just in the US. There's a document available on their home page which addresses McCain's comments.

 

But 3million dollars, there was nothing less expensive out there that would have donesomething similar. That could have went into the school systems or improve other public services such as health care.

[Plucky]

I don't care what it it. I think 110 billion dollars of anything should not have been added. It all should have been presented separately and on it's own merits. If it was that worthy it would've passed. I think we got shafted. Period.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

I agree. I don't WANT to pay to buy out somebody's mortgage on their overpriced McMansion. Let them live in a normal house like mine. Let them lose their house and rent an apartment for awhile. It will be a good life lesson.

 

Yes. I had to learn basic finance and live within my means. I don't get a bailout when I overspend. Not that I *want* a bailout. But I'm surely not interested in bailing out someone else who didn't do their homework.

 

If you don't understand the fine print, don't sign the durn mortgage. I'm just sayin'.

 

The "that one" comment is being blown WAY out of proportion. He was just being sarcastic and I don't think he meant anything insulting by it and I don't think he meant any disrespect towards Mr. Obama.

 

He was, IMO, being demeaning. He would not have said "that one" about someone he respected. To me, it came off as "boy." Mostly because it's sort of an "old codger" thing to say. Borderline offensive -- it really jumped out at me and I cringed and said, "OUCH!" when I heard him say it. But it sure has backfired. Obama supporters are adopting it and running with it.

 

 

 

True, but if we can't discuss it here then my husband is going to have listen to all of this and he would just as soon I come get it off my chest on a message board as to follow him around the house talking about it!:D

 

I agree. I need real grownups to talk with who agree AND disagree with me and who are willing to discuss this stuff. "Light! More light!"

[Susan in KY]

Other. I thought it was soooooooo borrrrrrrrrrrring!

[Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady]

I hear ya when it comes to that humility factor and old vets. That's why they are my heroes! My dad is the same way. It makes me admire him and other vets all the more.

 

Sorry about your dad's investments...I'm sure that was not encouraging to him at all. I pray this market will bounce back in the very near future.

 

The concerns your dad mentioned about McCain's healthy and vitality sound similar to my own father's thoughts. However, my dad tends to put his warped sense of humor into it. Dad said he gets concerned that McCain could have a "Vietnam Vet" moment...as a family, we all lived with my own father's Vietnam moments...nightmares, running down the stairs in the middle of the night, almost choking my mom in the night! Yikes.

 

 

As you read in my original post, I have not been thrilled at Senator McCain's candidacy. Health aside, he is not a true Conservative. It is frustrating to many of us die-hard right-wingers. Rush Limbaugh said it well today. He said that we'd have to drag McCain across the finish line and then deal w/ him later. Mainly, this has to do with McCain's line of thinking.

 

 

Senator Obama has the regal appearance and public speaking gift reminiscent of President Clinton. Don't tell my dad this, but I actually voted for Clinton over Bush 41 in 1992! That's when I was a gullible, naive college student at a liberal university (LOL>>>wink). Certainly, I learned my lesson the next time around. HOwever, the GOP screwed it up their pick w/ Dole. Aaargghhh.

 

When McCain got the nod by delegates, I immediately said "It's Dole all over again!"

 

It's going to be a rough 4 years for us Conservatives if Sen. Obama wins the Presidency. However, this seems to be cyclical, this change of Parties in leadership, and I'll just be patient until the next time.

 

Thanks for the interchange, Bill. You are always a gentlemen when discussing politics.

 

Best wishes,

 

Camy

[Robin in Tx]

I don't begrudge it either, but I've also heard that the state of Illinois's public education system is close to bankrupt and they won't be able to fund their own pension plan in the near future. I agree that we, as a nation, need to put high priority on these things but there are lots of private resources as well... it doesn't all have to come from government. But if we are really concerned about the education system, speifically in Illinois, there are a lot of things that money could have gone towards that would have reached a lot more classrooms and teachers. The existence of a planetarium in Chicago is worthy, but it (in and of itself) will not contribute to the outcomes you listed. I hear what you're saying, but I also think that if the funding had gone directly to science education in the state as a whole it would be a stronger argument. A lot of our museum's facilities are funded by philanthropy as are our fine arts. There is more than enough money in Chicago alone to fund a major museum renovation like that... I don't know that I agree it should come from federal revenues, yet at the same time I do appreciate national endowments. I have mixed feelings. Really, I do. Especially when I know that real math and science teachers who are trying to make a measured difference in the lives of their students are facing a bankrupt pension plan in the very same state. I think we can have both. Good technology *and* properly funded education system... the system depends more on tax revenues for funding, though, while raising money for a planetarium is much more doable through general public solicitations, imo.

[Spy Car]

I hear ya when it comes to that humility factor and old vets. That's why they are my heroes! My dad is the same way. It makes me admire him and other vets all the more.

 

I think when you lose "brothers" and face death yourself it changes people, and gives a different perspective on the blessing of having life. My father lost so many close friends in WWII, and I know he considers the lost ones the "heros". But my dad has always been the ultimate hero to me.

 

Your dad sounds pretty special too.

 

Sorry about your dad's investments...I'm sure that was not encouraging to him at all. I pray this market will bounce back in the very near future.

 

For all our sakes let's hope things turn around soon. We may need to learn to have some of the forbearance my parent's generation had.

 

The concerns your dad mentioned about McCain's healthy and vitality sound similar to my own father's thoughts. However, my dad tends to put his warped sense of humor into it. Dad said he gets concerned that McCain could have a "Vietnam Vet" moment...as a family, we all lived with my own father's Vietnam moments...nightmares, running down the stairs in the middle of the night, almost choking my mom in the night! Yikes.

 

LOL :lol:

 

My dad didn't really like to talk about the war too much (although I was a pest and asked about it a fair bit). While he didn't show a lot of post-war "moments" we did learn as kids not to wake him suddenly as he would come up "swinging" (literally) and in a kind of "war mode" until he realized what was going on. As I young kid I thought this was "funny", now I know better.

 

It's going to be a rough 4 years for us Conservatives if Sen. Obama wins the Presidency. However, this seems to be cyclical, this change of Parties in leadership, and I'll just be patient until the next time.

 

I may be wrong here, but should Obama win (which is beginning to look possible) I think many people who consider themselves "conservative" may come to like him. I think he has many qualities, such as his real commitment to his family and real associated family values that may win people over who are currently very skeptical of him now. We will see. But I think we have a chance to have a real "healing presidency" here.

 

Thanks for the interchange, Bill. You are always a gentlemen when discussing politics.

 

Best wishes,

 

Camy

 

The pleasure is mine Camy :001_smile:

 

Bill

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I don't begrudge it either, but I've also heard that the state of Illinois's public education system is close to bankrupt and they won't be able to fund their own pension plan in the near future. I agree that we, as a nation, need to put high priority on these things but there are lots of private resources as well... it doesn't all have to come from government. But if we are really concerned about the education system, speifically in Illinois, there are a lot of things that money could have gone towards that would have reached a lot more classrooms and teachers. The existence of a planetarium in Chicago is worthy, but it (in and of itself) will not contribute to the outcomes you listed. I hear what you're saying, but I also think that if the funding had gone directly to science education in the state as a whole it would be a stronger argument. A lot of our museum's facilities are funded by philanthropy as are our fine arts. There is more than enough money in Chicago alone to fund a major museum renovation like that... I don't know that I agree it should come from federal revenues, yet at the same time I do appreciate national endowments. I have mixed feelings. Really, I do. Especially when I know that real math and science teachers who are trying to make a measured difference in the lives of their students are facing a bankrupt pension plan in the very same state. I think we can have both. Good technology *and* properly funded education system... the system depends more on tax revenues for funding, though, while raising money for a planetarium is much more doable through general public solicitations, imo.

 

I would say that we agree pretty much on this, mixed feelings and all. (As you are soooo easy to agree with and so often *right*, it never surprises me when our opinions mesh! :D LOL!) Private funding is a lovely thing to solicit, particularly at a time when we're borrowing from China to pay our bills every month. :glare:

 

But I guess my biggest beef is... is this what we howl about when we're moaning about funding "pork"? Couldn't we howl about tax breaks for foreign interests or rum subsidies or D.A.R.E. (one of Biden's earmarks) or something other than science research and science education? You know? It just sets my Teeth. On. Edge.

[Robin in Tx]

I would say that we agree pretty much on this, mixed feelings and all. (As you are soooo easy to agree with and so often *right*, it never surprises me when our opinions mesh! :D LOL!) Private funding is a lovely thing to solicit, particularly at a time when we're borrowing from China to pay our bills every month. :glare:

 

But I guess my biggest beef is... is this what we howl about when we're moaning about funding "pork"? Couldn't we howl about tax breaks for foreign interests or rum subsidies or D.A.R.E. (one of Biden's earmarks) or something other than science research and science education? You know? It just sets my Teeth. On. Edge.

 

Okay, gotcha... I definitely don't consider it pork and I really am appalled at the way McCain made it sound like it was a little projector sitting in someone's back office. With that we most definitely agree! I might not think that the opportunity cost of spending that money on the planetarium is the best scenario, but I would NEVER call it pork... ever. And that really was your original point, whicih I completely strayed from.

 

Thanks for the compliment... but truthfully, you're the one who is so easy to agree with. You are my meshed mind buddy!!

[Spy Car]

When that young African American man asked the question about the mortgage bail out, McCain said that he bet the man had never even heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. I found that insulting.

 

Astrid

 

Well (unsurprisingly) the press tracked this young man down, and here is what he had to say:

 

"I like to think of myself as a fairly intelligent person. I have a bachelor degree in Political Science from Tennessee State, so I try to keep myself up to date with current affairs. I have a Master degree in Legal Studies from Southern Illinois University, a few years in law school, and I am currently pursuing a Master in Public Administration from the University of Memphis. In defense of the Senator from Arizona I would say he is an older guy, and may have made an underestimation of my age. Honest mistake. However, it could be because I am a young African-American male. Whatever the case may be it was somewhat condescending regardless of my age to make an assumption regarding whether I was knowledgeable about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."

 

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/09/1523335.aspx

[cathmom]

I laughed at this comment on your link there, Spy Car...

 

Seriously?! Is this what it has come down to? I feel like I am dealing with a bunch of 5th graders here!!

I sure as heck didn't know who Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were in relation to our economy as I am sure a lot of people in this world didn't regardless of your education or skin color!!!

McCain didn't mean anything by it for crying out loud!! He was just stating a comment for the general public!!!

 

Grow up!! Report on some real issues!! God knows there are enough of them out there!!!

 

I knew that Fannie Mae had something to do with mortgages. That's all I know.