Sibling betrayal

[mamiof5]

I am sure my brother justified it to himself

 

1) Scarlett doesn't need it as bad as I do

2) I took care of dad for 6 months

3) dad wanted me to have it

4) I dont want to hurt her feelings by mentioning it.

 

It is still a betrayal.

Playing devil's advocate here. Specially, if the truck was worth nothing, or very low...maybe your brother didn't lie to you. Maybe your dad told him to keep the money? Maybe your brother felt bad and didn't want to mention were the money came from? If your dad asked him to keep the money (as a thank you for his cafe and time he spent in their house), and your brother just didn't want to bring it up (maybe he felt bad you didn't get anything? Or maybe thought it was fair that they got it?). I don't know. I'm not sure I'm seeing the lying/betrayal here. I don't expect my sister to give me an account of what she gets or doesn't get from mom, it's none of my business. If your dad asked to split it then yeah, different story. Sorry about your dad!

[HS Mom in NC]

Letting it go means not talking about it or thinking about it ever again.  Not with yourself, not with another person in real life and not on the internet. 

I hope you learn to let it go someday because you deserve a peaceful, joyful life. Every moment you spend talking or thinking about it robs you of some peace and joy. In the future, when you have let it go and someone brings it up, simply smile and say something like, "That's all in the past." and then change the subject to something else that's positive and constructive.

[gardenmom5]

Mine said the same. There's a lot that comes to the surface when that is happening. DH got closer to his brothers during that period, and estranged from his sister. His parents died much earlier than mine, and I had no idea such drama would occur. When my father and then mother died, I had a sense of how bad it was going to be. But it was worse!

It has warmed my heart to personally know families where everyone got along and worked together.

And dh and his sisters are pretty much on the same page and working together. Of course we also think mil is too ornery to ever die. She's 90.

[gardenmom5]

Letting it go means not talking about it or thinking about it ever again. Not with yourself, not with another person in real life and not on the internet.

 

e.

Chris williams, the real life subject of the movie 'just let go' would disagree with you.

No one who knows his story would ever accuse him of not forgiving. (He's had people tell him he was too forgiving.) He speaks of his experience frequently as he uses it in his message of the power of forgiveness. His goal is to help others forgive.

Eta, correct movie title. The book is let it go. . .

 

 

eta: for those who dont' know who he is: chris Williams was a father of four whose car was hit by a 17 yo drunk driver.  his five months pregnant wife, nine yo daughter, and 11 yo son were  all  killed instantly.  his six yo son was critically injured. he has a strong conviction God preserved his life to care for his two living sons - that he otherwise would also have been killed. his 13 yo son was at a friends house.  while he was still in the car after the accident - he made a conscious choice to forgive the driver.  he still hurt, he still grieved, but he stuck to his commitment to forgive the other driver.  

​chris shares his story, and has worked to bring a message of the power of forgiveness for others who have been hurt (whatever the cause).  

Edited April 16, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Seasider]

What stopped you from just blurting out, "So I guess you dug up that jar of cash containing $12K from Dad's backyard? Before he died he told me that was for us."

 

"Us" meaning it was to be shared. Maybe your brother thinks you didn't know about the money?

 

ETA don't just assume he's deceiving you. If it bothers you, forthrightly ask him about it.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Seasider

[Seasider]

Letting it go means not talking about it or thinking about it ever again. Not with yourself, not with another person in real life and not on the internet.

 

I hope you learn to let it go someday because you deserve a peaceful, joyful life. Every moment you spend talking or thinking about it robs you of some peace and joy. In the future, when you have let it go and someone brings it up, simply smile and say something like, "That's all in the past." and then change the subject to something else that's positive and constructive.

Hmm. I thought letting it go meant knowing full well what the score is and choosing to act in forgiveness rather than any other possible choice of response (so, no anger, no retribution, no bitterness, etc).

[gardenmom5]

Hmm. I thought letting it go meant knowing full well what the score is and choosing to act in forgiveness rather than any other possible choice of response (so, no anger, no retribution, no bitterness, etc).

now that I'm on my computer - and not my phone . . .

 

forgive and forget is a lie.  forgiveness = absolution of consequences for the person in the wrong . . is a lie.

 

forgiveness is letting go of the anger and desire for vengence/retribution/control over what the person suffers, etc.

 

I've btdt with an abusive family member.  I've been able to let go of my hurt and anger, but I remember the details.  I can have compassion on them that they must have had some crappy stuff happen to them - but I can also know it does NOT absolve them of their own responsibility in perpetrating abuse. I can know that I can forgive regardless of whether that person was sorry.  (they weren't.  even if they were - the damage is already done and nothing they did could fix that.  I preferred to focus on cleaning up the mess.) I can remember what the abuse felt like - and use that knowledge to support other people who are working through the process,  both in trying to understand all the facets - and in learning to forgive.

[Scarlett]

What stopped you from just blurting out, "So I guess you dug up that jar of cash containing $12K from Dad's backyard? Before he died he told me that was for us."

 

"Us" meaning it was to be shared. Maybe your brother thinks you didn't know about the money?

 

ETA don't just assume he's deceiving you. If it bothers you, forthrightly ask him about it.

I am not assuming. I know my brother and I know for a fact he is deceiving me. It is possible Dad did tell him to keep it all. Dad and my brother both think I am rich....but even so it is so not like my brother to keep it from me. He would be excited about a 12k windfall.

[Scarlett]

Letting it go means not talking about it or thinking about it ever again. Not with yourself, not with another person in real life and not on the internet.

 

I hope you learn to let it go someday because you deserve a peaceful, joyful life. Every moment you spend talking or thinking about it robs you of some peace and joy. In the future, when you have let it go and someone brings it up, simply smile and say something like, "That's all in the past." and then change the subject to something else that's positive and constructive.

Oh I disagree. My Dad has been dead for 7 months and I have never mentioned it to you all. And I tell you all very thing. :)

 

It just crossed my mind today and I thought I would share. But I am not upset by it. Just. Amazed. I sleep fine and I have plenty of joy....I wonder if my brother does.

[HS Mom in NC]

Hmm. I thought letting it go meant knowing full well what the score is and choosing to act in forgiveness rather than any other possible choice of response (so, no anger, no retribution, no bitterness, etc).

 

Letting it go is the opposite of both picking up again and holding onto it...It means not letting it take up anymore of your thought life or emotional life.  Bringing it up again and going on about it again negates any words a person says about being over it and not being mad about it anymore.  Forgive and forget go together. At least that's how it is biblically. People who forgive someone don't over their past sins with anyone else or themselves. Isn't that what we Christians say our God has done for us?

[AmandaVT]

Note that if Medicaid finds out about that money (and posting about it on a public board might aid the process) they could come back after whoever got it. Since it should have been used to pay your dad's medical expenses.  I would not want the money in that circumstance.  Your brother could have just saved you a lot of aggravation.

 

This depends on your state I think. We just went through our state's health portal to find out what coverage we qualify for and when we were given the Medicaid questionnaire, there were no questions about assets. Income only. 

 

Scarlett - I'm so sorry that your brother lied to you. :-( Being deceived by a family member is so much worse than a non family member.

[Scarlett]

Letting it go is the opposite of both picking up again and holding onto it...It means not letting it take up anymore of your thought life or emotional life. Bringing it up again and going on about it again negates any words a person says about being over it and not being mad about it anymore. Forgive and forget go together. At least that's how it is biblically. People who forgive someone don't over their past sins with anyone else or themselves. Isn't that what we Christians say our God has done for us?

Well I hope you are able to do that as well as God does. I am not there yet. So thought I would share a thought I had with my online friends.

 

You can believe or not that I am not holding on to it. I chat with my brother via text quite often. I just made the decision to not ever confront him over it.

[fdrinca]

I'm so sorry. A similar thing happened to me - although much smaller amounts - when my father recently passed. Older sister pulled some shenanigans financially while she was taking care of my dad. 

 

Apparently, my father kept a locked drawer with a decent amount of cash - $2-3k. When my younger sister, his POA and bookkeeper, went to find the petty cash to pay for food at the funeral, the cash was gone. Older sister had a pretty Oscar-worthy performance about the skeleton key used to open the drawer. Later, though, she told me to look in that drawer because that's where my dad had kept the photos of my kids. So...

 

I really wouldn't have cared if she used all of the cash. I literally could not have cared what she bought with the money. I would be more than happy for her to have that money for the care she gave my father in his final days. BUT! Just say "oh, yeah, Dad said I could use that for XXXX" instead of lying about it. 

 

It's the lying. Not the money.

 

Also, my big sister's ex-husband and current boyfriend helped himself to my dad's Kindle Fire, which was a gift from us to help him get through chemo treatments. It was the $35 sale model. My sister went looking for the tablet, noticed her ex had registered a new Fire to his account, and confronted him. (Words like "take him to court" were used.) They absolutely ended their relationship over a $35 tablet. It certainly wasn't the most stable relationship, but it still boggles my mind that this even occurred.

 

So, this is why some people just don't talk about money. There is a level of....entitlement? greed?....that really messes with people. I suspect a systemic history of poverty has something to do with it.

 

Edited April 16, 2016 by fdrinca

[Halftime Hope]

Scarlett, I'm amazed by the amount of second-guessing in this thread.  I surely hope that it is because most posters really want it NOT to be true, for your sake.  Given the rest of what you've posted over time, I'm thinking it is pretty consistent behavior, just that his lies and deceit are directed into a new arena.  I'm so, so sorry!

 

I also believe that he is at risk due to Medicaid fraud.  You on the other hand, can rest easy, knowing that there is not one shred of evidence that you were involved.

 

 

[Seasider]

No I am not going to confront him. He can live with himself. And I have let it go. Musing on it to you all because I was reminded of it this morning.

 

I won't cut off contact with him over this. But I don't trust him.

 

 

Sorry Scarlett, when I replied before I was unclear that this was something you'd come to a resolution on but were just doing some down-the-road processing about.

 

As far as forgiveness....your words, "but I don't trust him," bring up an important aspect of human relations and forgiveness. I think we can truly forgive - let go of - indescribable hurts. However, past circumstances factor into our future relationship. Forgiveness and reinstatement of trust are two different things. The difference is whether or not the offender is repentant. Repentance and a true change of ways leads to restored trust. A lack of repentance will result in a continued lack of trust. I agree that you can forgive but choose not to trust your brother in the future. Love him, care about what happens to him, wish and pray the best for him, yes, but you don't have to trust him to do those other things.

[gardenmom5]

I am not assuming. I know my brother and I know for a fact he is deceiving me. It is possible Dad did tell him to keep it all. Dad and my brother both think I am rich....but even so it is so not like my brother to keep it from me. He would be excited about a 12k windfall.

 

he's not deceiving  you.  he *thinks* he's deceiving you. 

 

I'm so sorry. A similar thing happened to me - although much smaller amounts - when my father recently passed. Older sister pulled some shenanigans financially while she was taking care of my dad. 

 

 

 

So, this is why some people just don't talk about money. There is a level of....entitlement? greed?....that really messes with people. I suspect a systemic history of poverty has something to do with it.

 

we grew up middle class in an affluent neighborhood.  my brother was solidly middle class.  engineer, ex-wife is a school teacher, and he had military retirement.  one kid.  it was never enough for him - it's pretty evident he has lived beyond his means for a very long time.  no amount of money would have been enough for him. 

he even tried to get me to submit a request for payout of a life insurance policy he took out on our mother - that would require me to LIE about cause of death. (which he flat out asked me  to do without ever batting an eye.  never even occurred to him that he was asking me to commit fraud.)  uh no.  

[applethyme]

The combination of death and assets make people crazy in the head.  After my father passed away, my aunt who was the executor of the estate decided that all of his belongings "needed to stay in the family."  She worked very hard to convince the estate attorney that I should be disinherited.  In the end she mostly succeeded.  She lied on the estate survey.  I found her daughter selling my fathers tools on the internet and all the pictures and personal items could never be accounted for.  Pictures of their homes all show things that belonged to my father.  I have zero relationship with either of them as a result.

[Scarlett]

The combination of death and assets make people crazy in the head. After my father passed away, my aunt who was the executor of the estate decided that all of his belongings "needed to stay in the family." She worked very hard to convince the estate attorney that I should be disinherited. In the end she mostly succeeded. She lied on the estate survey. I found her daughter selling my fathers tools on the internet and all the pictures and personal items could never be accounted for. Pictures of their homes all show things that belonged to my father. I have zero relationship with either of them as a result.

 

Oh my word. Why in the world did she think his child was not 'family'?

 

That is just terrible.

[Scarlett]

Letting it go is the opposite of both picking up again and holding onto it...It means not letting it take up anymore of your thought life or emotional life. Bringing it up again and going on about it again negates any words a person says about being over it and not being mad about it anymore. Forgive and forget go together. At least that's how it is biblically. People who forgive someone don't over their past sins with anyone else or themselves. Isn't that what we Christians say our God has done for us?

As a side note I don't forgive my brother because he has admitted no wrong much less repentance. By letting it go I mean I am not going to let it poison me. I have quite a bit of experience with this. This time was surprisingly easy. When I see my Dad's watch on my bookshelf I just smile.

[Teresa in MO]

boy btdt!  Both sides of our family - mine and my dh's.  Life changing amounts and stupidity on our part, because you want to believe you can trust your siblings and they would never take advantage of you.  Its a hard and painful lesson to learn that you really can't trust anyone, even your own family.  For years we did everything to help our family in any way possible, and it has come back to bite us.  Sorry, Scarlett, that you are going through this.  What people don't realize is it's not about the money, its the betrayal by someone you never thought would do this to you.

[gardenmom5]

The combination of death and assets make people crazy in the head.  After my father passed away, my aunt who was the executor of the estate decided that all of his belongings "needed to stay in the family."  She worked very hard to convince the estate attorney that I should be disinherited.  In the end she mostly succeeded.  She lied on the estate survey.  I found her daughter selling my fathers tools on the internet and all the pictures and personal items could never be accounted for.  Pictures of their homes all show things that belonged to my father.  I have zero relationship with either of them as a result.

 

I am so sorry you had to go through that.   they say death brings out the worst in people - but I think more accurately - death brings out who they really are.

[TXBeth]

Letting it go is the opposite of both picking up again and holding onto it...It means not letting it take up anymore of your thought life or emotional life. Bringing it up again and going on about it again negates any words a person says about being over it and not being mad about it anymore. Forgive and forget go together. At least that's how it is biblically. People who forgive someone don't over their past sins with anyone else or themselves. Isn't that what we Christians say our God has done for us?

I disagree. How much does the Bible talk about our sins? Does the fact that He keeps mentioning them mean we aren't really forgiven?

Where in the Bible do you find this "forgive = forget" idea? Just because it's a phrase you hear in church doesn't make it Biblical.

[TXBeth]

As a side note I don't forgive my brother because he has admitted no wrong much less repentance. By letting it go I mean I am not going to let it poison me. I have quite a bit of experience with this. This time was surprisingly easy. When I see my Dad's watch on my bookshelf I just smile.

I love this! I have never heard anyone else imply that forgiveness requires repentance, but it is what I believe based on my own studies of the Scripture. I think we can choose to "let things go," not hold on to bitterness, and be prepared in our hearts to offer forgiveness. But forgiveness itself is a process that cannot be completed in the absence of repentance. I can not find anywhere in the Bible that forgiveness actually happens without repentance.

[Scarlett]

I love this! I have never heard anyone else imply that forgiveness requires repentance, but it is what I believe based on my own studies of the Scripture. I think we can choose to "let things go," not hold on to bitterness, and be prepared in our hearts to offer forgiveness. But forgiveness itself is a process that cannot be completed in the absence of repentance. I can not find anywhere in the Bible that forgiveness actually happens without repentance.

Exactly. This is a topic that gets discussed a lot on a marriage board I am on. You would be surprised at the number of (usually men) who tell us their wife is having an affair and that they have already forgiven her,

[lllll]

nm

Edited April 18, 2016 by _kathy_

[gardenmom5]

I love this! I have never heard anyone else imply that forgiveness requires repentance, but it is what I believe based on my own studies of the Scripture. I think we can choose to "let things go," not hold on to bitterness, and be prepared in our hearts to offer forgiveness. But forgiveness itself is a process that cannot be completed in the absence of repentance. I can not find anywhere in the Bible that forgiveness actually happens without repentance.

my understanding we are to forgive- whether the other person has repented or not.  their repentance is between them and God. repentance or not does not mean they are freed from consequences of their actions (e.g. someone who lies, isn't going to be trusted.  trust is earned).  that doesn't mean we don't enact boundaries if they are appropriate for safety (whether spiritual, emotional, or physical.)

 

re: the Lord's Prayer.  if you forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will forgive your trespasses.     one LDS verse is  "I the Lord will  forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men."

[G5052]

I think of it more as not dwelling on it.  Actually "not talking about it or thinking about it ever again" would be foolish with some of the people I've had to deal with over the years.  It's much wiser for me to remember who and what I'm dealing with  I just don't dwell on it, hold grudges, etc. 

 

Same here.

 

If you remain involved with this type of difficult sibling at any level, it's going to come up again and again. I had an email from mine on a legal matter on a different estate (not my mother's) this week that nearly set me off. But I let it sit a day and calmly replied, setting it straight. No reply from my sibling, but they never reply in situations like that.

 

I would also add that it is important to discuss these things with your older teenagers. They need to know what healthy boundaries are, and how to manage these difficult things. When I was growing up there was continual upheaval and strife in my home. Honestly I don't think my mother truly liked anyone and her relationships were very volatile even when the person let her be in charge. I want my children to learn when to trust and when to step back and say, "This isn't going to work."

[TranquilMind]

There was no cost. Zero. My dad was on Medicaid. Everything was paid for. In fact, my brother also got my dads small ss check for the 6 months he was there. I believe it was about $700 per month. My brother is on disability and his wife doesn't work. So they did not give up income to care for him.

 

Pain? Not so much pain. Just absolute disbelief that my flesh and blood would do this to me. If he had said to me, dad had 12k in cash. How do you feel about me keeping that since wife and I cared for him the last 6 months? I would have said, 'absolutely!'

 

I now know he is not trustworthy.

 

I would still challenge him on that.  I believe in calling people on their crap and making them own up to what they are doing.

 

I would just say, "Dad said he left $12,000 for us.  Is that what you are using to fix up your house?  I presume he meant for us to split it and I'm not sure why you didn't mention it."  (Stare)

 

If he is doing it, he's doing it, but I'd call him on it.  I consider it a favor to the next person he considers screwing over. 

[TranquilMind]

I'm so sorry. A similar thing happened to me - although much smaller amounts - when my father recently passed. Older sister pulled some shenanigans financially while she was taking care of my dad. 

 

Apparently, my father kept a locked drawer with a decent amount of cash - $2-3k. When my younger sister, his POA and bookkeeper, went to find the petty cash to pay for food at the funeral, the cash was gone. Older sister had a pretty Oscar-worthy performance about the skeleton key used to open the drawer. Later, though, she told me to look in that drawer because that's where my dad had kept the photos of my kids. So...

 

I really wouldn't have cared if she used all of the cash. I literally could not have cared what she bought with the money. I would be more than happy for her to have that money for the care she gave my father in his final days. BUT! Just say "oh, yeah, Dad said I could use that for XXXX" instead of lying about it. 

 

It's the lying. Not the money.

 

Also, my big sister's ex-husband and current boyfriend helped himself to my dad's Kindle Fire, which was a gift from us to help him get through chemo treatments. It was the $35 sale model. My sister went looking for the tablet, noticed her ex had registered a new Fire to his account, and confronted him. (Words like "take him to court" were used.) They absolutely ended their relationship over a $35 tablet. It certainly wasn't the most stable relationship, but it still boggles my mind that this even occurred.

 

So, this is why some people just don't talk about money. There is a level of....entitlement? greed?....that really messes with people. I suspect a systemic history of poverty has something to do with it.

 

This.  It's the lying.  I'd let him get away with the money, but not the lying. 

[lllll]

nm

Edited April 18, 2016 by _kathy_

[Laurie]

That is why it was buried in a Mason jar in the back yard of his shack.

 

 

Here's an idea.  You call your brother and say, "Brother, you know, I've been curious about something.  Did Father show you where the Mason jars were buried, or did he leave some kind of treasure map?"

 

How long do you think it would take for him to start digging? 

[Scarlett]

my understanding we are to forgive- whether the other person has repented or not. their repentance is between them and God. repentance or not does not mean they are freed from consequences of their actions (e.g. someone who lies, isn't going to be trusted. trust is earned). that doesn't mean we don't enact boundaries if they are appropriate for safety (whether spiritual, emotional, or physical.)."

It is what many people believe and I think it causes people a lot of pain. My understanding of scripture is that we are not required to forgive malicious, on going, unacknowledged, unrepentant wrong doing.

[Scarlett]

Here's an idea. You call your brother and say, "Brother, you know, I've been curious about something. Did Father show you where the Mason jars were buried, or did he leave some kind of treasure map?"

 

How long do you think it would take for him to start digging?

The money is gone. New Windows, doors, paint etc.

 

I sent them $40 for their anniversary last month. He said thanks it will help toward our steak and Lobster dinner tomorrow night. :/

[Seasider]

The money is gone. New Windows, doors, paint etc.

 

I sent them $40 for their anniversary last month. He said thanks it will help toward our steak and Lobster dinner tomorrow night. :/

Well now, that's just punishing yourself. A card would have been sufficient.

[catz]

Well now, that's just punishing yourself. A card would have been sufficient.

 

:iagree:   That's just like banging your head against a wall.  You've posted quite a bit of bitterness and disappointment in this sibling.  I would allow your relationship to fade to very casual.   I don't think you need to forget.  But it helps YOU to just let it go of any expectations.  You've painted this sibling as paranoid and having mental illness before so it's not surprising to me he would keep the money.  12K actually seems pretty cheap for 6 months of end of life care to me anyway medicaid or not.

 

And I say this as someone who has only a passing relationship now with my only sibling.  He is just way too wrapped up in himself to have a 2 way relationship. 

Edited April 16, 2016 by WoolySocks

[gardenmom5]

It is what many people believe and I think it causes people a lot of pain. My understanding of scripture is that we are not required to forgive malicious, on going, unacknowledged, unrepentant wrong doing.

 

in my understanding we are. in my own experience we are.  I think ultimately - we are to see people how God see's people.

 

forgiveness doesn't  mean we allow ourselves to be continually abused, taken advantage of, threatened, etc. that doesn't mean if someone has done something illegal we subvert the legal repercussions according to the legal code of our locality. we don't sit there holding ourselves judge jury and executioner when it's not our job.   (i was just on a jury - that was "my job".)

I do think refusing to forgive is refusing to trust God that He's in control, and in the end everything will be fair - and it put's an obstacle in our relationship with God.

 

I very prayerfully enacted hard boundaries with my grandmother while she was still alive.  (one 15 minute phone call a week as long as she was polite. they were frequently less than 5 minutes.)  I've been able to see her good points, and feel compassion for her own disappointments - but I'm not blind to how she treated people.   ultimately - she will have to answer to God for how she treated people while she was alive. My job is to trust God that in the end, everything will be fair.

 

I did have to cut off my brother for a time for my own safety. (and sanity)  but I have no animosity, and wish good things for him.  I've recently initiated contact  - I do wonder about my sanity. maybe I can exert some positive influence.  all I can do is what God wants me to do - the rest is between them. 

[MomatHWTK]

Interesting take on scripture. (Referencing OP, not garden)

Edited April 16, 2016 by MomatHWTK

[StephanieZ]

I agree your brother is not being upfront or nice about this. Sounds like he's got lots of issues. 

 

However, I would also not want anything to do with the money. It is stolen, in a roundabout way, and I'd be concerned you could either be accused of a crime for keeping it or later be required to return it to the gov't, which would really suck if you spent it on something and couldn't easily get it back.

 

(I won't get into the fact that it sucks that families have to be destitute to be eligible for Medicaid, but FWIW, MediCARE covers hospice services 100%, so even if he wasn't on Medicaid, then Medicare would have covered hospice . . . Anyway, I think this sucks and that everyone should have a right to medical care. However, our laws are our laws, and I have a healthy fear of the government, so I wouldn't want to be involved with the money.)

 

All that said, it is grueling and heart breaking to take care of an ill loved one. 

 

And, hospice doesn't cover food, etc, so that $700/mo was presumably at least partially used to cover food, utilities, eyeglasses, etc. and transportation costs. (Hospice does NOT cover those sorts of routine things at all.)

 

Having taken care of my mom in her final years, with extensive paid help and with no direct financial burden to me, I can't begin to put a number on the dollars those years/months cost me and my children and spouse. There is no amount of money that could compensate us for what we did or un-do the toll it took on us on every level. 6k, 12k, 50k, 100k . . . I'd not quibble about it for one moment.

 

Did you know that care-taking (as your brother and his wife did) takes *years* off a person's life expectancy? It's no joke. I've seen it in my own health and that of my kids. We're recovering now, but it is a process, and the damages are significant. 

 

In fact, I think if I were advising someone in your shoes at the time of your dad's final months or weeks, I'd have suggested very early on telling your brother, "Thanks to you and your wife's sacrifices of time, love, money, and energy, our dad's last months were more bearable and more beautiful than they would have been without you. I couldn't do what you did, and I am so thankful you guys stepped up to do it. I know Dad didn't have much, but please know that anything he had is yours now. I wish I could do more myself for Dad and to thank you, but please take whatever he had, like any cash buried in the yard, his guns, whatever he had, and make your life a little easier. I know Dad would have wanted that, and it's absolutely what I want."

 

THAT would be gracious, IMHO.

[Alicia64]

When dh's dad died, he left an old home that had been in the family for over 100 years on nice real estate. His sister settled into the home for two years. The plan was to clean it out and liquidate.

 

She didn't budge.

 

We finally got a lawyer to mover her out and make her sell the place.

 

Money is funny.

 

Alley

[Scarlett]

Stephanie I agree it was a great thing they did for dad. I told him that. As for the money since he has never admitted there as cash how could I tell him to keep it.

 

The anniversary gift money. I wanted to be nice to them. So I was. He is exasperating and not trustworthy but we share Dna and I love him.

[TranquilMind]

Stephanie I agree it was a great thing they did for dad. I told him that. As for the money since he has never admitted there as cash how could I tell him to keep it.

 

The anniversary gift money. I wanted to be nice to them. So I was. He is exasperating and not trustworthy but we share Dna and I love him.

 

He doesn't have to admit to it for you to let him know that you know. 

[Scarlett]

He doesn't have to admit to it for you to let him know that you know.

Yes I know. But I don't want to. letting him know I know would not make me feel better. It would just make him feel worse. I don't want the money.....I wanted honesty. It is too late for that.

 

It was enough that I let him know he was paying cash for the repairs that he had told me he was paying out.

[Scarlett]

Yesterday he sent me video of planes flying in a no fly zone in his area.

 

I can't make out what the big threat is suppose to be. It is hard to ask questions without calling him a nut job. :/

[eternalsummer]

Does he think they weren't US government planes?  That would really be something!  If they're US military planes, which seems like the most likely scenario, then maybe he thinks it's likely they are preparing for a situation near his area where there might be a no-fly zone for either some sort of civilian insurrection or outside threat.  Either scenario is possible (not hugely likely, but certainly possible - otherwise why would the military prepare for it?) and I can see the feeling of danger from such a thing, as it is kind of beyond the normal experience of most people who've lived in the US for the last couple of generations.

 

You don't have to call him a nut job to talk to him sanely about things that he is interested in.  He might very well think things you're interested in are pointless or vacuous or boring, but I'm sure if you sent him a video of your daughter's dance recital (hypothetical scenario of course) he would be able to reply without calling you a naive, plebian sheep or something.

[Scarlett]

Does he think they weren't US government planes? That would really be something! If they're US military planes, which seems like the most likely scenario, then maybe he thinks it's likely they are preparing for a situation near his area where there might be a no-fly zone for either some sort of civilian insurrection or outside threat. Either scenario is possible (not hugely likely, but certainly possible - otherwise why would the military prepare for it?) and I can see the feeling of danger from such a thing, as it is kind of beyond the normal experience of most people who've lived in the US for the last couple of generations.

 

You don't have to call him a nut job to talk to him sanely about things that he is interested in. He might very well think things you're interested in are pointless or vacuous or boring, but I'm sure if you sent him a video of your daughter's dance recital (hypothetical scenario of course) he would be able to reply without calling you a naive, plebian sheep or something.

Maybe you haven't read all of my other posts about my brother. It is not that I am not interested in his life even though different from mine.

[eternalsummer]

I have read many of them; he seems like he is living under a completely different worldview than yours, and has other values and interests (some of them really out of the box), and that you perceive this largely as mental illness(?  that part I'm a bit unclear on, as it might just be other posters here who see it as mental illness and not you).  

 

I'm just saying that while to you, some of his beliefs and interests seem crazy, to him, some of yours probably seem [insert derogatory term here], but it is possible to interact peacefully and even to a large extent honestly without insulting the other person or focusing on the points of furthest difference in your worldviews.

 

[Scarlett]

I have read many of them; he seems like he is living under a completely different worldview than yours, and has other values and interests (some of them really out of the box), and that you perceive this largely as mental illness(? that part I'm a bit unclear on, as it might just be other posters here who see it as mental illness and not you).

 

I'm just saying that while to you, some of his beliefs and interests seem crazy, to him, some of yours probably seem [insert derogatory term here], but it is possible to interact peacefully and even to a large extent honestly without insulting the other person or focusing on the points of furthest difference in your worldviews.

I know he is mentally ill.

 

And I do interact peacefully and as much as possible honestly. He knows he is mentally ill. But he loses balance sometimes.

[Scarlett]

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Edited April 18, 2016 by Scarlett

[goldberry]

Scarlett... :grouphug:

 

My parents are still alive, but I have a sister that would absolutely do something like this, and I am preparing for things to happen when my parents pass.  I have already decided that I am not willing to challenge her/fight/go to court.  I just cannot be that person, and I would feel it would disrespect our parents to fight over their belongings.  But, I'm preparing to get screwed! ;)   It still hurts though....

 

My FIL and his sister are now estranged over this type of situation. No contact except for accusatory emails occasionally.  Both of the same faith! 

 

Unfortunately, it does not seem that uncommon.

[Scarlett]

Scarlett... :grouphug:

 

My parents are still alive, but I have a sister that would absolutely do something like this, and I am preparing for things to happen when my parents pass. I have already decided that I am not willing to challenge her/fight/go to court. I just cannot be that person, and I would feel it would disrespect our parents to fight over their belongings. But, I'm preparing to get screwed! ;) It still hurts though....

 

My FIL and his sister are now estranged over this type of situation. No contact except for accusatory emails occasionally. Both of the same faith!

 

Unfortunately, it does not seem that uncommon.

I am amazed at how common it is. We just went through something similar wth dhs grandmothers estate. The son in charge has completely destroyed his relationship with the grandchildren .