Master of none?

[bibiche]

We're kind of unschooly in that we let DS follow his interests.  But he has a lot of disparate interests. I like that he is interested in  many things, but when does generalism become dilettantism (in the pejorative sense of the word)?  When does one rope it in?   Should one rope it in?

 

My little crisis of faith is brought on because we are looking ahead to next year.  For the past few years has has been taking one class per semester in a particular area of interest.  He has already arranged to continue that, but now he is self-studying Italian, and wants to add in a class in Ancient Greek the following semester. These things in addition to taking AoPS classes, helping out at a farm, tutoring math, playing an instrument, studying his home languages, book club, nature class, Catan league, swimming... the list goes on.   And there is plenty of whining when it is time to stop reading and turn off the light at night and also when he just wants to go to the park and run around but has work to do. 

 

I'm tired just thinking of it, and also worried that well, jack-of- all trades, master of none...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dmmetler]

I kind of think that's a good thing. It means when he picks a path, it will be by choice, not by default. We're honestly trying to broaden DD's focus a bit so that she isn't completely set on one dream path to the point that if it doesn't work, she can't adapt. Even at 11, she's expressed fears that if she doesn't do something or does something wrong it will "destroy my career". It's good to be motivated and driven, but no, the science class you take in 6th grade and whether or not you do a science fair project really isn't going to make or break your eventual career!

[Arcadia]

I find being a master of none more useful when working compared to my specialized in a field hubby. He is great at that one field which was great when applying for the green card here. However it was horrid when job hunting because choices are so few. There are lots of jobs that I can apply for with lower starting pay but higher performance bonuses.

 

For our kids as long as they have time and we could afford it, we don't want them to specialize until PhD level. Even then we hope they have hobbies different from their specialization.

 

ETA:

My master of none level is enough to have enjoyment and get a pay check kind of level. Kind of like being able to be a piano teacher instead of being good enough to earn a living as a concert pianist.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Arcadia

[forty-two]

I tend to think of dilettantism as not just dividing one's time and interest between many things (instead of focusing on just a few things), but also involving a revolving door of interests.  It includes a tendency to *drop* interests when they get hard or when they are less interesting than whatever new thing that catches the eye.  So it's not just doing a lot of things, but never progressing beyond dabbling in *any* of them. 

 

I do this way too much, and for me it's rather similar to enjoying the rush of a new relationship but bailing when that initial surge of strong feeling goes away and isn't buoying the effort of making a relationship work anymore.  I don't have the skills and self-discipline to persist in pursuing an interest once the emotion fades. (unless it's easy-peasy).  I'm interested in everything and want to do everything, until it gets hard, and then I'm ready to quit.  (I do have one long-term-ish research project that I keep working on, and some of it is fledgling self-discipline, but a lot of it is because I'm driven by how *important* the project is to me.  It's more steady than the rush of emotion that comes from uncovering something new! and fascinating! but it still wavers with my overall mood, and so I work in fits and spurts.)

 

I would worry if he's not persisting in *any* of his interests to the point he has to work hard over the long term to make progress.  Not everything's worth that level of work, but *something* needs to be.  I quit or accepted mediocrity in everything that required persistent hard work over time, and that didn't do me any favors - I dropped out of college over it, and it's crippled my ability to work hard on the things I *want* to work hard on.  It's not that he needs to focus exclusively on one interest to deep mastery - steady work on several interests through thick and thin is good, too - just that it's really easy for smart kids who are interested in everything to bounce between interests and fail to learn how to make the transition from "dabbling" to "working to master something" in *anything*.  (And it can be hidden because on some things they can externally succeed while internally skating by, or that they get so far in their initial burst of interest that it looks like they've been "working to mastery" for quite a while before they quit because "it was no longer worth the effort".)

Edited April 3, 2016 by forty-two

[Lawyer&Mom]

There are a lot of amazing specialist kids represented on this board and I love reading about their accomplishments. There are also amazing generalist kids. I think it is easy to dismiss how remarkable it is to be good at a lot of different things.

[forty-two]

I think it is easy to dismiss how remarkable it is to be good at a lot of different things.

 

That's the difference between generalist and dilettante to me: a generalist is good at many different things, while a dilettante doesn't persist long enough to get genuinely *good* at *anything*.

 

ETA: I'm a dilettante aspiring to become a generalist :).

Edited April 3, 2016 by forty-two

[Mike in SA]

I'd be willing to bet all that "generalism" is hovering around a couple of common themes.  What you have is a kid who may be aiming for the intersection of tow major fields.  That can be a hugely influential role to play, and can place a young adult in a high demand segment of the workforce.

 

Don't allow dabbling without completion, and you've got naught to worry about.

 

[EndOfOrdinary]

How old is your son? Around 16 or so, starting to possiblly narrow into a smaller handful of ideas is usually helpful for college. It isn't necessary, though. I am 33 and work at a coffee shop so that I can have huge amounts of open time to pursue the various other interests that I have. The money is not terrible (with tips), it definitely could support Ds and I if needed, but no one will be jumping up and down thinking it is a "career." I do not want a career. I just want a job which allows me to have a whole lot of life.

 

My son has specialized since about 4. He is rather set if he wants to pursue a career in environmentalism, activism, or organizing. But he doesn't. He wants to go Ivy League and become a diplomat with a minor in Classics. He also wants to travel, do a bunch of art, speak lots of languages, skateboard, and design illustrations for video games. The specializing takes a whole lot of time. We have had to really scale back his academic speed due to all the environmental work. Three days a week next year he is going to be interning with the Sierra Club. I don't even know how we are going to fit in the academics. So be careful what you wish for!

[imagine.more]

I agree with others who have mentioned that as long as he is completing each course and following his hobbies to a logical conclusion then being a generalist is just fine. It's when he quits as soon as something becomes too hard or when the newness wears off that I'd step in and be a bit firm on finishing what he starts and focusing his interests. 

 

My DS7 is a generalist too. Right now he wants to grow up to be a dad, a priest (not mutually exclusive because he's joining the eastern rite), and at least two kinds of scientist, lol! 

 

I figure the world needs both specialists and generalists, and many professions lend themselves more to generalists actually. 

[bibiche]

Thanks for the replies. Lots of food for thought.  As for the dabbling and not finishing, there are a lot of things he starts and doesn't finish (board games that he is inventing, craft projects, cleaning his room (!), books that get put down for weeks), but I am afraid he has a role model for that.  :001_unsure:   So it is possible that I am projecting some of my guilt feelings.   As for more formal stuff, he does follow through, but with lots of reminders and push from me ("Did you check the syllabus? Did you do your reading? Practice your instrument? Do your math?). If I didn't remind him he would probably happily spend the day programming, staring at Magic cards, or memorizing the rules to the latest board game expansion.

 

I guess my biggest worry is that he is being lazy.  Which sounds horrible. But as for most bright children, nothing really comes hard for him and he is used to not putting in a lot of effort. He is starting to get pushed a little in math, so that has been good, but it still is not as if he puts in a huge amount of effort - he does what he needs to do, cries sometimes when he doesn't understand things immediately but then once he gets them he is satisfied. I see his friends totally geeking out and spending hours working on math, but it is just not his style.  He doesn't seem to have any passion or drive. :(

 

He enjoys playing an instrument, but is certainly not a perfectionist about it - he is satisfied with the bare minimum whereas when I was his age I would persist until things were perfect.  Or take the language thing: I suggested he try something more challenging, like Arabic. Nope, he likes Italian, but I am pretty sure that's because it's easy since he already speaks a couple Romance languages.  <_< So maybe we just have a personality difference, I dunno.  I was never an "it's good enough" kind of kid, so I don't get the nonchalance.  Maybe his way is healthier. Or maybe he is lazy!  :001_rolleyes:  

 

EndOfOrdinary, to answer your question, he is ten.  And he does have one subject that he has taken high level courses in for a few years, but he takes it in stride, not with the passion of other kids here. It just seems kind of normal to him.  

 

Ugh. I guess I just need to stop worrying and trust that it all shakes out.  Maybe his passion (and work ethic!) will develop. Or maybe he is just a mellow, generalist kind of guy.

 

 

[Arcadia]

My DS10 is my happy go lucky kid who is a perfectionistic only about aesthetics and is the most particular about attire :lol:

 

His interest is more round robin style so his hobbies come in and out of fashion with him. He stop crochet for more than a year then suddenly took the wool and crochet needle out to make something for his soft toy.

 

My DS11 is the one that can spend hours including all day on math if he has nothing else to do. However put him in a book store or music store and he is lost in another world of its own. Today we were at Guitar Center and couldn't find him when it was time to go. He was happy in DJ land :)

 

I find both my kids are still forging their own identities. My hubby kind of decide at 10 years old (5th grade) which looking back kind of close too many doors. I am still a jack of all trades and I find that when a door close, there are plenty of alnost as good choices left.

 

As for being lazy, I think most people of all ages would be lazy at times. I think with bright kids, we as parents are more worried of kids giving up when the going gets tough rather than about being generally lazy. That is when parents have to go with gut instinct how much to nudge their kids to continue and get over the hump, or whether kids are just done with it.

 

I have a nephew that learns things very easily. He gave up on piano lessons after a year because he couldn't stand lessons. Now at 24, he could still play piano well for leisure and as accompaniment, as well as playing the saxophone and the electric guitar in his university band. His parents could have insisted he continue with piano lessons but they let him stop and just enjoy playing. He did enjoy lessons for Tae Kwon Do and reached black belt level but didn't continue after that.

[JennW in SoCal]

Ugh. I guess I just need to stop worrying and trust that it all shakes out.  Maybe his passion (and work ethic!) will develop. Or maybe he is just a mellow, generalist kind of guy.

 

Think of it this way.  A generalist makes a terrific dinner party guest because he can talk intelligently about almost any topic. In the long run, isn't that a good thing?!   :D But you are in the thick of homeschooling, and this board is full of stories about some amazing kids, so what you probably need is some reassurance and tales about other kinds of kids.  

 

My youngest is a generalist who didn't specialize until college.  He never was particularly passionate or driven, but did really well in anything in he tried. He wound up in a college full of kids like him, smart and talented but without that driven, competitive, type A personality. Best of all, the college is also full professors passionate about teaching and mentoring, who shepherd these bright kids through a program designed to challenge and push them into specializing and delving deep. Long story short -- this ds is now a specialist who will shortly be graduating with honors, the top of his major.  It took a bit of maturity and the right mentors to nudge him into being a specialist. He specialized in geology, by the way, a field perfect for a generalist -- you have to have the eye of an artist, a strong background in chemistry, physics and math,  you have to understand programming for computer modeling, and have an engineer's mind for utilizing all the technology available for use in the field.

 

I wouldn't worry about a 10 year old being a generalist. The world is a big and endlessly fascinating place, and too many kids lose an interest in life around them at too early an age. I also wouldn't worry about him not finishing any creative projects that he starts because that creative impulse is a precious gift, and exploring that spark of an idea is more important for a 10 year old than finishing it. It shows he can think outside the box, a trait that is too often stifled in our world of standardized tests.  He will be able to make connections across various subjects, thanks to this out of the box thinking.

 

My ds at the age of 10 also wanted to spend the day programming, studying magic cards, reading, building legos, drawing.  And I gave him lots of time to do all that, but of course I had to remind him about school and other stuff. He was a kid being a kid, after all. And while of course there was some, well, maybe a lot of, laziness and procrastination going on, all of that programming and lego building and other stuff was hugely valuable in developing his creativity, in cultivating his imagination, in honing his problem solving skills and 3 dimensional thinking. 

 

Keep looking for academic challenges for your ds, obviously have him complete courses or stick to commitments. But let him explore and think and create and don't worry too much that he is "just being lazy".  Take an interest in what he is doing, and try to let go and enjoy the ride as he grows up and find his "thing". Easier said than done, I know!!  

[bibiche]

That is exactly the reassurance that I needed, Jennifer, right down to the lazy procrastination part. Thank you.

 

I would love to know where your son ended up for school - it sounds wonderful and heck, it's never too early to have great schools on the radar. Feel free to PM me if you would prefer. And thanks again. 😊

[hornblower]

I agree that there is nothing wrong with being a generalist & dabbling in lots of things. 

But I think it is something to watch, esp with gifted kids because I believe that tendency to drop things when they get hard is more prevalent among the gifted population.  I don't know that there's any proof for this - it's possibly just my perception :) 

But I think when things come easy & you get social/parental approval for the ease with which you accomplish some things, it can be a real challenge to accept that some things suddenly don't come easy. Some kids start thinking that maybe the tests were wrong, they're not gifted, they're not smart, that they're frauds - esp if they believe in the the 'fixed mind-state' that Carol Deck talks about.  (here's just one article on the topic: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-secret-to-raising-smart-kids1/) 


So just keep an eye on it & try to make sure that when his interests change, it's just because they've naturally evolved rather than that he's shying away from an obstacle.  Try to get that sense of  'growth mind-set' that Deck mentions...
 

[bibiche]

Thanks, hornblower. I think you're right and it is definitely something we keep an eye out for. And thanks for the link.

[Rush]

...

Edited May 21, 2016 by rushhush08

[TerriM]

I'm not sure how much I'd worry about generalizing now, but he needs to focus when he gets to college because the behavior you're describing leads to changing majors every year and never graduating.  One major, one minor, get a job, then if he wants to go back to school in 5 years, that's his choice.  That would be where I'd put my foot down.  If you really want to, you could ask him right now to choose one area each year to focus on "in depth."  Maybe it's the instrument, maybe a sport, maybe a language (ie, get to the point where you're fluent in the language, or really good at the instrument, or proficient in a pick-up game of the sport or maybe you achieve a goal of running a 7 minute mile, or making 3/4 of your basketball shots or some concrete goal).

 

Now, your observation that he doesn't finish projects (wow, that sounds like me as a kid)--for his own emotional well-being, I'd see if I could help him wrap some of them up.  Help him get from point A to point Z and call a project "done" even if it isn't a great result.  In the long run, he's got to be able to complete things, and often the process of getting from point A to Z is totally lacking.  I don't mind books or movies that don't get finished (if they're not good enough to read cover to cover in one sitting, why waste your life? :), but finish designing the board game, summarize the project in an essay (what worked, what didn't, what should I do better next time), and call it done.  Why did he set these projects aside?  I personally look back on all my "plans" for some really awesome projects that never got done, and I feel really bad, but I ruminate over *why* I never got them done.  

 

I'm reading Getting Things Done by David Allen, and he suggests labeling each project with a next "Action" because without an action attached there's no concrete thing to do to Get It Done, and people avoid thinking about it.  So, for the Board game, why did your son set it aside, and what would be the next action (or actions) to get it going again?   Like "Need to sit down and draw pictures for the characters" or "Need to solve the problem that rolling double sixes gives too much of an advantage to a player."  And then when he finishes that action, he needs to specify another "Next action" to keep it moving.  That's one way to get from A->Z.  Another way, would be to make a list of actions and time needed to finish and say "I'm going to do this one on Monday" so that there's a concrete time frame to move it forward.  Then he can see how project management can move forward with a goal of finishing in multiple months.

[Rush]

....

Edited May 21, 2016 by rushhush08

[Arcadia]

The thing about growth mindset is that bright kids giving up on task they are disinterested in tend to be viewed as "waste of talent" while "less bright" kids giving up tend to be viewed as "good time management".

It annoys me that because I was good at something, I was labelled an underperfomer. My choice to excel at what I want to excel in was treated as a waste ot gifts. I became great at flying under the radar early.

 

I'm not sure how much I'd worry about generalizing now, but he needs to focus when he gets to college because the behavior you're describing leads to changing majors every year and never graduating. One major, one minor, get a job, then if he wants to go back to school in 5 years, that's his choice.

 

My DS11 wants three majors (all math heavy). I can see him aiming for that with his personality. I can see my DS10 aiming for one major (math/science heavy) and a few minors (creativity bias).

 

Nice news article explaining

http://m.sfgate.com/education/article/Triple-majors-make-27-at-Cal-noteworthy-4166314.php

 

My hubby and I both started with a bachelors in engineering. He treated it as a specialised degree, I treat mine as a broad based degree to springboard to other areas. That is why he is a R&D engineer while I was in technical marketing and project management (mainly finance and legal liabilities). My personality swings heavily towards thinking out of the box.

[Mike in SA]

I'm not sure how much I'd worry about generalizing now, but he needs to focus when he gets to college because the behavior you're describing leads to changing majors every year and never graduating. One major, one minor, get a job

Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree. Double and triple majors are extraordinarily valuable. Job opportunities can sometimes be more than double what a single degree offers.

 

Flipping majors aimlessly certainly is not desirable, but I know plenty of hiring managers, and none would look down on a double major. Plus, this suggests something like finishing a first degree in 3 years followed by a second two years later as opposed to getting both in four.

 

Now, getting an MBA in 5 could make for a different story...

[bibiche]

  Why did he set these projects aside?  

 

Often he doesn't finish them because Evil Mom Lady comes in and makes him stop to work on classes that he has committed to.  Sometimes he doesn't finish them because something else interesting comes along.  I should say that he more puts them aside rather than abandons them.   But I hear you on this (and I have ordered th book that you mentioned from the library).  I myself have a problem with not completing projects as well, although in my case it has more to do with perfectionist issues, and it can really drag one down.

[Have kids -- will travel]

Mine are younger, but honestly, at 10 I'd prefer a generalist to a specialist. Burnout in a field is a real issue in hard sciences, where the specializations are very narrow. I love chemistry through to my bones but didn't discover that until college. By the end of two years undergrad research and four years of grad research, I was absolutely sick of it. I can't imagine having started before high school and not just gotten utterly tired of the subject altogether.

 

I agree with much of the above that it's better to encourage completion than dabbling, but no need to push for a passion in maths or sciences.

 

Undergrad/grad maths and sciences look so different from the high school variant that you can't expect a child to choose properly. I loved high school math and upper level calculus, so much that I was the Calc III TA. But upperlevel math (200's/300's) was so boring to me that I didn't pursue it further. High school chemistry was dull to me; in undergrad, it involved so much more analytical thinking that I loved it. 

 

FWIW, DH and I both have very specialist degrees and ended up with generalist careers (highly sought-after). A strong technical background proves that you can learn at a high level; these skills are broadly applicable and in high demand.

 

Keep your generalist, I say. Yes, I know the early-on specialist genius from my undergrad who is now tenure-tracked at Harvard. But she's literally one-in-a-million, and I wouldn't want her life (no partner, no kids, no life outside of work). 

[luuknam]

If you read biographies of famous (and/or not so famous) people, you'll see that some of them were all over the place as kids/teens or even adults, and others weren't. There's obviously Steve Jobs who credited a calligraphy class with his success selling computers (because he made sure they had pretty fonts, which he wouldn't have thought about otherwise). Or, the book I'm going through at the moment, Professor Povey's Perplexing Problems - Pre-University Physics and Maths Puzzles with Solutions, has an intro about the author's life, in which he talks about a childhood spent climbing up 100ft trees, blowing stuff up, making puzzle-boxes, kites, etc. Then in a gap year he worked first as a lumberjack, and the got a job building a 16" by 16" tree house for an artist (probably because of a combination of his climbing skills and his DIY/engineering skills). He then got a degree in Physics, and continued on for a PhD in rocket propulsion. Most people's lives aren't completely linear. They circle back to things, try new things, combine things, etc.

 

The kid is 10. That really is still the time to be happy-go-lucky, mellow, generalist, w/e.

 

As a side note, reference librarian (public, school, academic, w/e library) is a generalist kind of job (though at a university library they're more likely to have multiple kinds of reference librarians, e.g. a science reference librarian - community college librarian is more diverse). Writer (e.g. journalist) can be quite diverse.

[TerriM]

Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree. Double and triple majors are extraordinarily valuable. Job opportunities can sometimes be more than double what a single degree offers.

 

Flipping majors aimlessly certainly is not desirable, but I know plenty of hiring managers, and none would look down on a double major. Plus, this suggests something like finishing a first degree in 3 years followed by a second two years later as opposed to getting both in four.

 

Now, getting an MBA in 5 could make for a different story...

 

I am all for the education necessary to do the job he wants, but unnecessary degrees mean more time and money sunk in school, less time working=less income.  BTDT.  If he needs a dual degree to do a particular job, fine, but I am personally advocate with my kids getting out and getting a job.

 

But I will smile a bit at your posting.  As i got three degrees and then went on to have kids.  I joke that I use my degrees to change diapers. I'd have been way better off financially getting out after just one and working.  But maybe in the long run you'll be right, and I will see some payoff from them.....

[TerriM]

Often he doesn't finish them because Evil Mom Lady comes in and makes him stop to work on classes that he has committed to.  Sometimes he doesn't finish them because something else interesting comes along.  I should say that he more puts them aside rather than abandons them.   But I hear you on this (and I have ordered th book that you mentioned from the library).  I myself have a problem with not completing projects as well, although in my case it has more to do with perfectionist issues, and it can really drag one down.

 

I would suggest letting him dig deep into whatever activity he's in and not disturb the train of thought.  If he has that kind of attention span, encourage it.   Except for meals and bedtime.  Need to eat and sleep.

[Runningmom80]

Think of it this way.  A generalist makes a terrific dinner party guest because he can talk intelligently about almost any topic. In the long run, isn't that a good thing?!   :D But you are in the thick of homeschooling, and this board is full of stories about some amazing kids, so what you probably need is some reassurance and tales about other kinds of kids.  

 

My youngest is a generalist who didn't specialize until college.  He never was particularly passionate or driven, but did really well in anything in he tried. He wound up in a college full of kids like him, smart and talented but without that driven, competitive, type A personality. Best of all, the college is also full professors passionate about teaching and mentoring, who shepherd these bright kids through a program designed to challenge and push them into specializing and delving deep. Long story short -- this ds is now a specialist who will shortly be graduating with honors, the top of his major.  It took a bit of maturity and the right mentors to nudge him into being a specialist. He specialized in geology, by the way, a field perfect for a generalist -- you have to have the eye of an artist, a strong background in chemistry, physics and math,  you have to understand programming for computer modeling, and have an engineer's mind for utilizing all the technology available for use in the field.

 

I wouldn't worry about a 10 year old being a generalist. The world is a big and endlessly fascinating place, and too many kids lose an interest in life around them at too early an age. I also wouldn't worry about him not finishing any creative projects that he starts because that creative impulse is a precious gift, and exploring that spark of an idea is more important for a 10 year old than finishing it. It shows he can think outside the box, a trait that is too often stifled in our world of standardized tests.  He will be able to make connections across various subjects, thanks to this out of the box thinking.

 

My ds at the age of 10 also wanted to spend the day programming, studying magic cards, reading, building legos, drawing.  And I gave him lots of time to do all that, but of course I had to remind him about school and other stuff. He was a kid being a kid, after all. And while of course there was some, well, maybe a lot of, laziness and procrastination going on, all of that programming and lego building and other stuff was hugely valuable in developing his creativity, in cultivating his imagination, in honing his problem solving skills and 3 dimensional thinking. 

 

Keep looking for academic challenges for your ds, obviously have him complete courses or stick to commitments. But let him explore and think and create and don't worry too much that he is "just being lazy".  Take an interest in what he is doing, and try to let go and enjoy the ride as he grows up and find his "thing". Easier said than done, I know!!  

 

I love this whole post, but especially this paragraph! (And I currently have a 9.5 year old who spends his days Minecrafting (made that into a verb) drawing comics, and building Legos.  :))

 

Thank you for posting.

[mathnerd]

Being a generalist is never a bad thing. If he did not explore options at this age, he will never get to do that when he is an adult with responsibilities.

I have a super-generalist "well-rounded" kid who almost never has time to finish any creative project because he has too many self started projects going on. He can self-regulate if I tell him to, but I do not anymore. It is so easy to compare with self-motivated kids who are specialists before age 10. But, every time that I brought it up, my DS has told me that his inspiration are men like Benjamin Franklin and the Renaissance men like Aristotle, Da Vinci, Michelangelo etc and he wants to work on diverse fields when he grows up. He actually convinced me that it is a great thing to be able to think of different interesting projects in different areas and it is joyful to watch him explore and learn varied things like astronomy, robotics, painting, botany etc. He usually tells me that if he specialized now, he would miss out on too many things that he could have explored and that would be sad for him. And I agree with him that it is the right path for him.

 

ETA: About the instruments - my DS was not a perfectionist with both his musical instruments until I found teachers who will not accept sloppiness or dabbling and set the bar high and required him to develop correct techniques and work daily on exercises and fundamentals in addition to playing repertoire. Once DS realized that having excellent technique helped him to move on to challenging music that would be inaccessible to him without technical mastery, he has diligently worked on meeting his teacher's expectations.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by mathnerd

[Arcadia]

It is so easy to compare with self-motivated kids who are specialists before age 10.

If we are looking at news articles, what gets published tends to be the specialized achievement with a one liner about the person's other abilities or interests.

 

For example the local news writeups about the winners for Intel Science Talent Search in the local papers would focus of info related to the winning project and mention in passing their hobbies and/or other talents. Like so and so is also their school's debate team leader.

 

On this board, we see the achievement of kids like Dmmetler's daughter and Lewelma's son and may forget that these kids are actually multitalented. Dmmetler's daughter is not only good in herpetology just as Lewelma's son is not only good in math.

[luuknam]

I am all for the education necessary to do the job he wants, but unnecessary degrees mean more time and money sunk in school, less time working=less income.  BTDT.  If he needs a dual degree to do a particular job, fine, but I am personally advocate with my kids getting out and getting a job.

 

But I will smile a bit at your posting.  As i got three degrees and then went on to have kids.  I joke that I use my degrees to change diapers. I'd have been way better off financially getting out after just one and working.  But maybe in the long run you'll be right, and I will see some payoff from them.....

 

Then and again, you don't even need a high school diploma to change diapers.

 

College isn't necessarily about maximizing profit. Depending on your background, you might have to be more careful about ROI than someone else, but if three majors makes someone happy and they aren't going broke to do it, why not?

[mathnerd]

If we are looking at news articles, what gets published tends to be the specialized achievement with a one liner about the person's other abilities or interests.

 

For example the local news writeups about the winners for Intel Science Talent Search in the local papers would focus of info related to the winning project and mention in passing their hobbies and/or other talents. Like so and so is also their school's debate team leader.

 

On this board, we see the achievement of kids like Dmmetler's daughter and Lewelma's son and may forget that these kids are actually multitalented. Dmmetler's daughter is not only good in herpetology just as Lewelma's son is not only good in math.

Dmmetler's daughter, Lewelma's son and EndOfOrdinary's son are definitely multi-talented (I remember their accomplishments in mythology, latin, music, sports etc ), and are specialists too because they chose their future paths early in life.

I also remember the interviews with kids who won the National Spelling Bees and they hardly ever talk about those kid's other achievements or abilities.

 

Super-specialists are those in my opinion who already know what their future is going to be - like "I am going to be a pediatric cardiologist or I am going to be a researcher working on nanotechnology at MIT Labs or I am going to play classical violin professionally focusing on a particular composer" and they are well set on that path before age 9 and have a few related and significant accomplishments under their belts. These kids, with their levels of intellect are mostly multi-talented. But, have thought about their futures and interests enough to set themselves on a fixed path much, much earlier than many adults. So, it is easy for a parent to compare their very gifted kid to one such prodigious kid and that is what should be avoided. Not every smart kid knows what they want in their future. Many are polymaths - they like to explore and learn wide-ranging subjects when they are young and that is OK. Some go on to get multiple college degrees in multiple majors and there are worse evils than that ;) 

[Arcadia]

I am all for the education necessary to do the job he wants, but unnecessary degrees mean more time and money sunk in school, less time working=less income.

....

As i got three degrees and then went on to have kids. I joke that I use my degrees to change diapers. I'd have been way better off financially getting out after just one and working.

The way I calculate is this. If an accelerated child starts dual enrollment at community college by 11th grade, the child can get some general education units knock off. That would make graduating in 4 years more likely. Taking a 5th year to get another major or two doesn't seem much of a financial strain long term.

 

My parents paid in full for my degree but my first year pay after graduating more than covered tuition and related expenses including dorm fees.

 

I know college costs has risen in this country a lot more than in my home country in 20 years. However hubby and I have choose for me to be a SAHM instead of a WOHM. Half of my last take home pay (before bonus) before my oldest was born would more than cover infant care or a daytime nanny. So even with both my boys in infantcare, I would still have money left over. My kids didn't get to choose for me to not work and not be able to afford a bigger home or more trips back to visit relatives. They just live with the choice hubby and I made. If I have not stop work, my income untouched could cover tuition and dorm at state Us for both boys easily. So paying for two more terms of tuition per child assuming at a state U don't seem too much especially when I do intend to work once my youngest is in college.

[Mike in SA]

I'm still holding out hope for scholarships. :) Going in with almost 30 hours (AP), not using the extra year would be a waste of good money!

[lewelma]

Gulp, I hope that I have not affected people's perceptions of their own children.  I have one specialist and one generalist, but the specialist was a generalist until he was 12.  In fact, I ran a thread three years ago for my then 12 year old called "How do you guide an all-rounder on how to prioritize and allocate time?" http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/445410-how-do-you-guide-an-all-rounder-on-how-to-prioritize-and-allocate-time/  It is pretty hard to believe how much changes in 3 years. My ds's path to specializing was filled with my own trepidation for allowing it; and I posted here many times trying to get help deciding what to do.  But interestingly, even with his specializing in maths, my ds is delaying entrance into university in order to follow his musical talents and an literature interests; he is currently reading War and Peace.

 

Personally, I love generalists and am married to one.  The path to a career is more winding, but in the end his generalist knowledge has allowed him to fill a very tricky niche between hard core Tech and business process change.  There are simply no other people in the city who can do the work he does, people are either one or the other.  Generalists have their place, and it is an important one.

 

Ruth in NZ 

     

[bibiche]

Thanks for that link, lewelma! While DS's particular interest is not math, your post and the responses are very informative. :)

[wintermom]

I think it depends on what level of mastery one is looking at and the person in mind. Not everyone has the will to be a master of something or even a couple things. It takes time, focus and a lot of consistent work, as well as choosing to do that thing and not other things.  I think the world needs both people willing and able to become specialists, as well as people who want to be good at many things.  One doesn't have to be better than the other. Masters or specialists do tend to get paid better, though there are often fewer jobs for people of their expertise.

Edited April 9, 2016 by wintermom