8 Hour Hike?!

[thessa516]

I'm super impressed! That's well over 40,000 feet and I would think a 4 year old's stride wouldn't be much more than a foot in length...that's a LOT of steps for a little kid.  Kudos. 

 

 

Aww, thanks! We have yet to wear out our little guy. He's our youngest of five and most rambunctious. It was a two-hour ride home and we thought for sure he'd fall asleep. Nope, but I did... lol! He certainly keeps me on my toes.

[Shelly in VA]

Thanks for all the responses! A few things to clarify, that I didn't word very well in my original post.  :001_huh: My concerns are different based on the type of hike that is planned. If we essentially walk for 8 hours, I don't have an issue with stamina but I do have an issue with the purpose of the activity. If we actually spend 8 hours on a challenging hike, I have an issue with the lack of preparation. After giving it more thought, I think my biggest concern is that this activity is being planned/presented as a task or chore, not as a challenge for the girls to rise to. Hiking is something we (dh, kids and I) enjoy, in part because when we do it somewhere scenic it is a great way to spend a few hours, and in part because when there is some challenge to the hike, you know that you accomplished something with your time and effort, if that makes sense. I feel like filling time to check a box goes against that, and goes against the ideals of scouting, too.

 

If we are just walking for 8 hours, then this is a check-the-box activity that may technically result in "earning" the badge, but it will not result in a positive experience for the girls. If they don't feel that they worked to truly earn the badge, then I don't think it is a worthwhile use of their time! 8 hours of repetitive walking in a small area is not challenging the girls to achieve something, it's just filling time. They aren't going to come away from this feeling like they accomplished much; they will have essentially repeated the walk-a-thon fundraisers they do each fall on the church parking lot where the troop meets, but they will have walked circles for a longer period of time. It's a spirit-of-the-badge vs. letter-of-the-badge issue. Unfortunately, I feel like this is what is going on here. As several responses said, this will not result in a love of HIKING. This could even turn the girls off from hiking as an activity. That would be terrible, IMHO - the complete opposite of an activity that could introduce them to something they could enjoy for the rest of their lives.

 

Which reminds me - the park itself. This is NOT a state park with hiking trails. This is a local park with soccer and baseball fields, and 3 wooded trails that are all under 1 mile each. They are not difficult, although they are pretty. They are a place that I take my kids when we are looking for something to do outdoors for an hour or two. You can walk the longest trail down to a small beach area, skip rocks in the river that you come to, and "hike" back up to the start, all in about an hour. A lovely place to have access to locally, and I am very grateful for it, but not a place to spend 8 hours walking in circles!

 

The next point is preparation. Even for a moderate hike (only excluding circles around the local park here), to meet some of the ideals of scouting, the girls should be prepared. My dd is extremely active and fit, but I still feel that preparation (I am including physical prep, but also equipment, skills like orienteering, etc.) is beneficial, if only to add some substance to the activity. But there are no training hikes planned, just the two days of "hiking" so that the badge can be earned before the final badge order of the year is placed. This is not prep for future, more scenic hikes - I've asked. This is strictly and solely to earn this one particular badge. That attitude is part of what makes me think this is being approached as a task, not an experience from which the girls can really learn. As someone mentioned, scouting SHOULD BE about progression, but this is taking the easiest way out of meeting the badge guidelines, which shouldn't be the point! I am certain that the idea behind the "long" hike is for the girls to plan and prep for food, breaks, etc.This is busy work. 

 

I should have said that this is an AHG troop, not a Girl Scout troop. The way the AHG badges are set up, each age group can earn each (or at least most) of the badges, but the requirements are increasingly challenging as the girls get older. So this group of girls - middle school and high school - would have to complete some of the younger age requirements, as well as additional and more challenging tasks for their group only. That goes back to the idea of progression, but that seems to be lacking here. 

 

Also, regarding the location, I asked and was told that because the leaders have not completed a training course that is only offered certain times of the year, outside activities are limited by the distance from our meeting site. So that results in this local ballfield/playground park. Which is really a shame, because we live in an area that is relatively close to some beautiful state parks as well as some really nice hiking/walking trails that are maintained as part of historical sites. The girls (and adults) are missing the chance to spend a day experiencing nature or interesting scenery/sights. I loved the post where a scout troop hiked in suburban/historical areas! That brings me back to the box-checking attitude - I would be inclined to work on other badge requirements this year, including some nature walks at this local park like the short one we did in the fall with the troop, then plan to meet the longer requirements next year when more scenic venues could be chosen.

 

Finally, the parent requirement. Uggh! This has been an issue for me with this troop on every activity over the past 2 years. I understand the need for adequate adult supervision, I really do. Having just spent 4 hours this past Saturday at a local food bank with a group of teen volunteers from our youth group, but without either of the other adults who were supposed to be there with me, I get it!  :lol:  But there comes a point when too many parents can result in disruptions during the activity; worse, all that parent presence can diminish the ability of the girls - especially teens - to take on responsibility and leadership roles, or to simply feel a sense of independence. The blanket requirement that each girl must have a parent is excessive, but that is the way the troop is run. My 14yo is not allowed to enter the meeting area without me signing her in, even if I am simply in another part of the building! That is another issue for another post; haha. In many ways, the troop is being run as an organization for younger girls, and the older girls are just sort of added in. It's very frustrating. Again, another post... 

 

Thanks for all of the input. I appreciate it!

 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Shelly in VA

[Carrie12345]

Walking in 1 mile circles for 8 hours is not hiking.  I'm obnoxious enough to believe I'd tell the leader I wasn't going to allow my kid to receive a badge for something she didn't actually do.  (Then again, I'm a mom who called her child's teacher and told them to lower their kid's grade for making up the ending of a book in his book report.)

 

My dds have been on several all-day hikes, and they definitely did not walk the whole time.  They took in the environment. (And climbed several hundred feet.)

[regentrude]

Walking in 1 mile circles for 8 hours is not hiking.

 

This. It is ridiculous.

 

[Alessandra]

Shelly

 

Thanks for the update. I was dying of curiosity about what badge you were doing -- I totally forgot about AHG.

 

Your update makes the situation even worse, if possible. The group is wandering around an ordinary park -- because the leaders aren't trained?! Sounds like a great place for the leaders, lol, but I sure wish the girls could get a decent hike. I can easily imagine them developing a dislike for hiking....

 

And the thing about parents, weird. I love to have parents participate. Everybody has different skills, for example, one of our parents who is a nurse can teach first aid. But, if we required a parent -- well, I know some girls would have to drop out. We have parents with big families, parents who work odd hours, single parents. Requiring a parent seems as if it could deny a good scouting experience to a large number of kids.

 

Fwiw, my dd will hike this weekend (6 hours only, lol). Steeper elevation rise than last hike, and I believe there will be a rock scramble -- nothing technical, but it will involve climbing up and over some large boulders. The theme for this hike is water filtration. You are so right about the sense of accomplishment. My dd is so proud that she is able to do things she thought she would not be able to do.

 

I am sorry you are going through this.

[frogger]

Yes, that sounds like a time waster. I would be totally frustrated. We have a million things we can choose to do everyday. Why would people choose that?

[Seasider]

Good grief! I see your point. I'd be rolling my eyes, too.

 

Is it part of the requirement that the hike happens as a group/unit/troop? Because if I were in your shoes, required to be on the trek anyway, I'd have dd chose a friend or two and let them tackle this requirement apart from a structured group activity. Let them plan it for a more desirable location and document it with photos, notes and maybe a signature of a state park naturalist if you choose one of your nice state parks, but don't stay hitched to circle-walking box-checkers. You can work individually without raising criticism, if asked about your non attendance just say with a smile that your girl(s) had something different in mind.

 

I do confess to have a personal peeve against signing off badge requirements without there being a true effort being made to achieve the goal and provide some evidence that something was learned. You know your daughter and want to teach her to have enthusiasm and integrity in reaching her goals. Don't leave that to a nonparent leader who either doesn't share that desire for excellence or whose hands are too tied by health & safety red tape to provide something better.

 

As far as waiting til next year, do keep in mind that some girls may need to complete the hike by badge deadline because they are aging out of a level and need the outdoor skills badge to earn their level award. Otherwise I agree that there's no need to rush.

[HomeAgain]

My 6yo just did an 11 mile, 9 hour hike. :)  He's not in top hiking condition, either.  His previous hikes were about 3 miles. 

 

FWIW, though, with scouting, it is no good if the child does not feel the need to do it, and plan it, him/herself.  If the scout takes no initiative it's not a MERIT badge, it's a reward for following someone else's prodding.  Not cool.

[Alessandra]

Getting back to your original question on how to handle situation.... I don't know much about AHG and couldn't find badge info online. Are you familiar with actual badge requirements? Some scout groups, like Girl Scouts, allow you to modify badges. Others, like Boy Scouts, want the badge requirements as written.

 

With such a small group, I would guess that if you dropped out, it could change the group dynamic. But a hike that makes everyone grumble would be no fun.

 

Could your group join another group and do several hikes adding up to 8 hours?

 

Does your hike have to be continuous hiking? I was thinking of ways you could break it up. For example, a long lunch with a cooking contest -- say aluminum foil cookery vs skewers on grill. A Dutch oven if you have one. A camp oven can be made from a cardboard file box and heavy duty foil -- you can cook a cake in it. Since you are in a park, presumably there is convenient parking near a picnic area?

 

Or what about a map and compass course? Those are a lot of fun -- I have seen ready to go kits at BSA shops. Geocaching? Mapmaking? What about tree identification? Photography or videos? Make an Instagram page for the hike, alert other friends to watch for it. There are fun phone apps that track hiking data, elevation, etc -- keep a log. Do a trash clean up as part of walk.

 

Maybe a parent has a special skill or interest? First aid, perhaps. Or even a craft, such as leaf prints. I have one book from a scout camp that has stories with an ethical question, sort of a WWYD. Leaders use them for discussions around a campfire.

 

I don't know if any of those ideas would work. But you could take advantage of being in a park -- easy access to lots of gear packed in cars, unlike a real hike where everything has to be carried. Just trying to put a positive spin on your situation, lol....

 

ETA

These ideas would not work. See requirements in post 62.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Alessandra

[SparklyUnicorn]

 (Then again, I'm a mom who called her child's teacher and told them to lower their kid's grade for making up the ending of a book in his book report.)

 

 

 

:lol:

 

This reminds me of once I had to write a paper on a book of my choice for a course in college.  It had to be by a Polish author, but otherwise it was wide open in terms of book choice.  So I got the book, but you know procrastination....etc....So last minute me thought hm I wonder if I could just make something up in terms of what this book is about.  So I thumbed through the book and then in the cover noticed a blip that the book was donated to the school's library by my professor of the course.  LOL  Damn.  I had to read that book.

 

 

[regentrude]

This reminds me of once I had to write a paper on a book of my choice for a course in college.  It had to be by a Polish author, but otherwise it was wide open in terms of book choice.  So I got the book, but you know procrastination....etc....So last minute me thought hm I wonder if I could just make something up in terms of what this book is about.  So I thumbed through the book and then in the cover noticed a blip that the book was donated to the school's library by my professor of the course.  LOL  Damn.  I had to read that book.

 

You did not get creative enough. You should have invented an obscure Polish author and his book.

[justasque]

Which reminds me - the park itself. This is NOT a state park with hiking trails. This is a local park with soccer and baseball fields, and 3 wooded trails that are all under 1 mile each. They are not difficult, although they are pretty. They are a place that I take my kids when we are looking for something to do outdoors for an hour or two. You can walk the longest trail down to a small beach area, skip rocks in the river that you come to, and "hike" back up to the start, all in about an hour. A lovely place to have access to locally, and I am very grateful for it, but not a place to spend 8 hours walking in circles!

...

 

Oh dear. I had assumed it was a series of walks in a state park, not doing loops in a local park, because I couldn't imagine that anyone would plan eight hours of walking in a soccer-field-type park. Obviously, I was wrong.

 

So here's the thing. At some point, you will have to decide whether to give up the troop (drop out entirely or find another), or take on a leadership or at least activity-planning role. Because silly as the activity may be, a parent volunteered to plan it, took time from their family to make the arrangements, etc. Now sometimes the leadership just doesn't have the kind of group-activity savvy that you obviously have, and you can play a sort of advisory role without taking on the entire task. And sometimes, you can volunteer to be the "field trip" mom, and organize that aspect of things without having to take on the whole troop leadership thing. But sometimes, you have to make the hard decision - stay and run the group, stay and accept it for what it is, or leave and let it go. Never easy, no matter which way you end up going.

 

In the case of this specific activity, I second the ideas given by Seasider in the quote below - find out the parameters, and plan your own way to meet the badge requirements.

 

 

Good grief! I see your point. I'd be rolling my eyes, too.

 

Is it part of the requirement that the hike happens as a group/unit/troop? Because if I were in your shoes, required to be on the trek anyway, I'd have dd chose a friend or two and let them tackle this requirement apart from a structured group activity. Let them plan it for a more desirable location and document it with photos, notes and maybe a signature of a state park naturalist if you choose one of your nice state parks, but don't stay hitched to circle-walking box-checkers. You can work individually without raising criticism, if asked about your non attendance just say with a smile that your girl(s) had something different in mind.

[chiguirre]

My 14yo is not allowed to enter the meeting area without me signing her in, even if I am simply in another part of the building! That is another issue for another post; haha. In many ways, the troop is being run as an organization for younger girls, and the older girls are just sort of added in. It's very frustrating. Again, another post... 

This sounds like a liability insurance requirement from the sponsoring organization. I have to sign Trinqueta in and out of her youth choir and there must be a Virtus trained adult sitting in the hall outside the practice room the whole time as well. Yes, it's overkill. But if we don't follow the rules, we can't have a youth choir.

[creekland]

And this would be why we hiked as a family, sometimes inviting friends, but never for any sort of group/badge.

 

We camp on our own too.

 

I've never really been all that good at letting other people decide how we're going to do things.  I tend to like my own ideas better.

 

My kids were heavily involved in a couple of different youth groups, but neither required earning anything like badges.

 

Best wishes OP.  I suspect I'd have dropped out long before now.

[Annie G]

And this would be why we hiked as a family, sometimes inviting friends, but never for any sort of group/badge.

 

We camp on our own too.

 

I've never really been all that good at letting other people decide how we're going to do things.  I tend to like my own ideas better.

 

My kids were heavily involved in a couple of different youth groups, but neither required earning anything like badges.

 

Best wishes OP.  I suspect I'd have dropped out long before now.

Pretty much how I feel. They want you to be there for everything but not have any input.  Nope.   I do not have patience for that. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

You did not get creative enough. You should have invented an obscure Polish author and his book.

 

Wow, now that is brilliant!

I don't know much about AHG, but isn't a main goal of any Scouting group, especially at the high school level, to develop leadership?  Shouldn't the scouts themselves have a significant role in planning the outings, deciding if they are fit enough, and making sure they are meeting any deadlines?

[rocassie]

My girls are in AHG so I copied the hiking requirement (the one about the 8 hours hike.)  The requirement doesn't specifically say it needs to be done as a troop.

 

"Plan and go on two all-day hikes, or on one overnight backpacking trip.  (A "day" consists of 8 hours including short breaks for food and water, and an hour for lunch)  You should be able to hike and average of 2-3 miles an hour.  Prior to departure create an Emergency Preparedness Plan.  Leave one copy with a Troop parent and take another copy with you.  Put in action what you have learned about trail safety."

 

One of the other requirements asks for the girl/troop to learn about two or three scenic or historic trails in their area.  So it seems as if in order to earn the badge, they may have to check out that state park you mentioned.

 

Good luck!!!  It appears that whomever is planning this activity is making it way more difficult and boring than it has to be.

 

 

[Alessandra]

I don't know much about AHG, but isn't a main goal of any Scouting group, especially at the high school level, to develop leadership? Shouldn't the scouts themselves have a significant role in planning the outings, deciding if they are fit enough, and making sure they are meeting any deadlines?

Gosh, you are exactly right, at least as regards Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts.

 

I remember in our Boy Scout troop, when patrols were planning meals, one patrol decided on shrimp souvlaki, while the other decided on chips. Seemed ok at the time, as landing meeting was after dinner when no one was hungry. My son was in the chips patrol, but luckily the souvlaki patrol shared their food. Lesson learned. There are plenty of other similar stories.

 

Girl Scouts too. I have often had to be very patient as things went a bit off track -- or girls did nothing. But they are learning responsibility and leadership. Of course, as leaders, we do watch out in terms of safety, whether it's outdoors or on Internet.

 

And neither Eagle nor Gold medals is supposed to be a parent project, lol.

[Alessandra]

My girls are in AHG so I copied the hiking requirement (the one about the 8 hours hike.) The requirement doesn't specifically say it needs to be done as a troop.

 

"Plan and go on two all-day hikes, or on one overnight backpacking trip. (A "day" consists of 8 hours including short breaks for food and water, and an hour for lunch) You should be able to hike and average of 2-3 miles an hour. Prior to departure create an Emergency Preparedness Plan. Leave one copy with a Troop parent and take another copy with you. Put in action what you have learned about trail safety."

 

One of the other requirements asks for the girl/troop to learn about two or three scenic or historic trails in their area. So it seems as if in order to earn the badge, they may have to check out that state park you mentioned.

 

Good luck!!! It appears that whomever is planning this activity is making it way more difficult and boring than it has to be.

Thank you!

 

That is a tough requirement, both in terms of hours and miles.

 

Boy Scout Hiking MB has 10 mile hikes.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Alessandra

[Farrar]

If the group's requirements are that ridiculous, why do the group? The main purposes of scouting are things like nature and outdoor education (they're failing that one), leadership skills (so totally failing that one), community service, and fostering community. Maybe she's getting enough socially out of the group to offset this ridiculousness, but the decision making does seem rather bizarre. I've fought with organizations who won't let my kids sign themselves in and out at age 10. I don't think I'd stand for that at 14. That's a high schooler, for goodness sake.

[MarinesWife]

The no training comment by the leaders is. Well. Ridiculous. You can go hiking. And if someone wants to do the training it is online and quick to get through.

[Soror]

The no training comment by the leaders is. Well. Ridiculous. You can go hiking. And if someone wants to do the training it is online and quick to get through.

 

 

My girls are in AHG so I copied the hiking requirement (the one about the 8 hours hike.)  The requirement doesn't specifically say it needs to be done as a troop.

 

"Plan and go on two all-day hikes, or on one overnight backpacking trip.  (A "day" consists of 8 hours including short breaks for food and water, and an hour for lunch)  You should be able to hike and average of 2-3 miles an hour.  Prior to departure create an Emergency Preparedness Plan.  Leave one copy with a Troop parent and take another copy with you.  Put in action what you have learned about trail safety."

 

One of the other requirements asks for the girl/troop to learn about two or three scenic or historic trails in their area.  So it seems as if in order to earn the badge, they may have to check out that state park you mentioned.

 

Good luck!!!  It appears that whomever is planning this activity is making it way more difficult and boring than it has to be.

I'm an AHG leader too and dont' remember anything about not being allowed to go so far. Maybe my memory is bad but I did the older girls group last year and the only thing I remember was that we needed certain forms done for high adventure activities for insurance purposes- hiking doesn't count under that though. I also agree that the girls need to be planning it, I thought that it was written into the badge but I guess not in so many of the other Pi/Pa badges it is wrote that way, AHG seriously needs to take lessons from the Boy Scouts, too many crazy rules and the encouragement of helicopter parenting is ridiculous.

Edited March 15, 2016 by soror