College discussions

[SquirrellyMama]

How much advice do you give your kids about college majors? Do you just sit on the side and cheer them on, or do you take a more practical approach? Anything in between?

 

I'm going between wanting to tell my dd, who is a freshman in HS this year, to follow her dreams, and love her job, and reminding her that she doesn't want to go into a lot of debt for this career. I think that is going to rule out a couple of her major choices.

 

My dh is firmly on the practical/money side, and I have many friends who are discouraging their kids from career paths due to low income potential. I feel like there must be a middle ground somewhere. Although, when I talk to her I feel like I'm not really helping her by saying, "Do what you love, but remember not too much debt."

 

I know she's young yet, but when I think about the fact that she'll be in college in 3.5 years, I know that it will go quickly.

 

Kelly

[8filltheheart]

Taking on debt as a student is pretty limited unless you are willing to co-sign for loans.  So you do have control over that.  (We refuse to take out loans or co-sign loans for college, so my kids don't have to worry about too much debt b/c it just is not even an option.)

 

We do not dictate the path they take.  We do educate them about what that path means, though.  Is it a career that requires a  grad degree?  Then they better be prepared to attend grad school.  Is it a career that is stable but not one with a lot of advancement opportunities?  They need to be prepared for that.  Is their degree one that does not lead directly to a specific career?  (For example, my dd who wants to major in Russian and French as opposed to her brother who is a chemE.)  If so, they need to be prepared to develop employment strategies on top of completing their degree.

 

Income is not a focus.  They pretty much know whether their path is going to lead to a higher or lower income.  It is their life. 

[SquirrellyMama]

Taking on debt as a student is pretty limited unless you are willing to co-sign for loans.  So you do have control over that.  (We refuse to take out loans or co-sign loans for college, so my kids don't have to worry about too much debt b/c it just is not even an option.)

 

We do not dictate the path they take.  We do educate them about what that path means, though.  Is it a career that requires a  grad degree?  Then they better be prepared to attend grad school.  Is it a career that is stable but not one with a lot of advancement opportunities?  They need to be prepared for that.  Is their degree one that does not lead directly to a specific career?  (For example, my dd who wants to major in Russian and French as opposed to her brother who is a chemE.)  If so, they need to be prepared to develop employment strategies on top of completing their degree.

 

Income is not a focus.  They pretty much know whether their path is going to lead to a higher or lower income.  It is their life. 

 

I've been trying to do this also, although income is often a focus. We won't take out loans or co-sign either, so maybe future income doesn't have to be in the discussion as much.

 

Kelly

[clementine]

We do not dictate or even strongly encourage a certain path.  Our college age daughter wanted to major in art.  We talked many times about the pros and cons of pursuing a degree in art.  We discussed strengths that she has in other areas & let her decide what would help her eventually support herself and feed her passion.  She eventually (completely on her own) chose a different major, but understands that she can always take art classes and work on her artistic abilities outside of a different career.  

 

If she would have chosen to get an art degree we would have supported her in that choice, knowing that she understands the hardships she may encounter.  

 

 

 

 

[SquirrellyMama]

We do not dictate or even strongly encourage a certain path.  Our college age daughter wanted to major in art.  We talked many times about the pros and cons of pursuing a degree in art.  We discussed strengths that she has in other areas & let her decide what would help her eventually support herself and feed her passion.  She eventually (completely on her own) chose a different major, but understands that she can always take art classes and work on her artistic abilities outside of a different career.  

 

If she would have chosen to get an art degree we would have supported her in that choice, knowing that she understands the hardships she may encounter.  

 

I'm definitely trying to support her in what she chooses. One of her thoughts is a theater/dance arts degree. I'd be very supportive as long as she knew the pros and cons. My dh would not be supportive.

 

I told her yesterday that she can do whatever she wants in college since she'll be an adult and paying for it. In the end we aren't choosing for her.

I just want to make sure she understands the pros and cons without discouraging her from taking a path she'd enjoy.

 

I also want her to be confident in her choice. I had planned on a certain field, but was so low in self-confidence, that when an adviser discouraged me, I switched to something I hated. I never did any work in my college major. I always felt my $30,000 in student loans was such a complete waste. Luckily, they are paid off.

 

Kelly

 

 

[Julie in MN]

Agreeing with Kelly and 8Fills - you don't have to make choices for them but you can do quite a bit now to educate them about their career ideas. 

 

I had my son do a research report in 10th about medical careers, having him interview many different folks in the field, with educational backgrounds ranging from 2 months to 8 years, to show him that "doctor or nurse" does not sum up the entire field.  You could do the same with any career, from engineer to artist.

 

I also think of a Girl Scout I was acquainted with, who got a "wider opportunity" through scouting to try out the journalism career of her dreams.  During that experience, she realized that journalism was not what she imagined and was not the career for her.  It's a fortunate person who realizes this beforehand.

 

[Matryoshka]

I encourage them to follow their dreams, but that may mean trade-offs.  One dd wants to do archaeology.  I told her that would mean no loans, not for her, not for us (the latter is a no-go either way).  And if she sticks with it, it will require grad school, for which she could take out loans (or perhaps go to grad school in Europe).  But if she graduates with loans, she will not be able to do things like take a low-paying job or volunteer somewhere that would get her connections to something better later, because she'd just be concentrated on paying off loans.  So she's going to a state school that has a good program in her major - she has already made some connections to outside mentors that may give her leads on more interesting summer digs than her state school normally offers.

 

Another dd wants to go into computer science.  I'd be fine with her taking out the standard student loans, as the career is lucrative and she'd be doing coops that could well pay off the loans at graduation time.

 

For all my kids, I've tried to give them ways to expose themselves to areas they're interested in, and brainstormed things they could be interested in, and talked about the pros and cons of different paths.  I wouldn't say not to do something they were passionate about, but to go in with eyes open, be practical, and  maybe have a back-up plan if your passion isn't the most practical career.

 

For dd the archaeologist, we've talked about her maybe going into some kind of museum work as another possible path. (having no loans will make her much more flexible).

[1Togo]

We're like most of the other posters. We've educated dc on the pros/cons of various career paths, but we are not discouraging dc from pursuing any degree. With that said, the back-up plan is a second major in a practical degree. Dc is working toward making this possible through Early Enrollment, summer school prior to freshman year, and CLEP. We will not take any loans, and dc will live at home and take only minimum loans. The overall plan includes summer jobs along with summer school.

 

Adding this. My parents did not encourage me to pursue my dream in college. Even so, I ended up in NYC working in my dream field even though I didn't have training or experience. I would have done a lot better in the field if I had training.

[Lori D.]

The decisions rest with DSs, but because post-high school options are SO very different and SO much more complicated and costly than when DH and I graduated from high school, we did not expect them to navigate these waters alone. So, we did a lot of career exploration together during all of the high school years. We also discussed the realities of so many jobs now requiring a Bachelor's degree just to apply, but also we researched college costs/finances, financial aid options, and college admission requirements, and let DSs know what we had to contribute towards college.

 

Even with all of that, neither of our 2 DSs had a clear/strong idea of what they wanted for a career by the time of high school graduation, and were feeling lost as to what to do next, so we suggested the Community College, so they could at least explore a bit (at 1/3rd the cost of the local state university) and simultaneously knock out some of the general ed. courses that would transfer towards a 4-year degree.

 

One DS ended up with an AAS degree from the CC and transferred to a 4-year university, and is about to graduate with his BA and only a small amount of debt. The other DS went to the CC for 2 years, but was still unsure about what he wanted to do career-wise, so he has been working and saving while he figures out his next direction will be.

 

 

A very general rule of thumb re: college debt -- total debt for a degree should not exceed the amount of starting salary for the job you can get with that degree. So if the average starting wage for the job you land with your Bachelor's degree is $35,000, you should not have more than $35,000 in total debt for getting that degree.

 

Another idea is, if you know you want to pursue a low-paying job, is to get training or an AAS or BA in a related or extension area so you have that as a go-to if the high-interest area doesn't pan out. It's a lot easier to get that schooling/training right after high school when you have virtually no extra responsibilities, than 10 years later when you may have a spouse/children to care for and support. For example -- wanting to pursue dancing as a career, so get the education for a job that fits alongside that well to help pay the bills, and can be the fall-back if an unexpected injury cuts the dance career short -- certificate or license as a therapeutic massage or personal trainer, or Associate's degree as physical therapy technician or occupational therapy technician.

 

 

JMO, but I would not expect a high school student (even many college students!) to have the experience or ability to do the vast amounts of research about their options, both career-wise, but then college costs/financial aid options-wise. That's where I think having parents walk alongside to help find options and help the student discuss/think through all the options is so very helpful.

 

There have been a number of threads on the high school and college boards here about college costs, financial aid, and options/alternatives, so you might start working your way through some of that and compiling thoughts to discuss with your student and with the family. There are a number of linked threads on financial aid, choosing a college, and career exploration in post #5 of the big pinned thread at the top of the high school board: "Transcripts…College Applications, Scholarships/Financial Aid, Career Exploration… links to past threads here!"

 

And if finances and college costs are a concern, you might check out this past thread on creative alternative options for funding college: "s/o Cautionary Tale/high costs of college -- a brainstorm $$ ideas thread!"

 

BEST of luck as you enter the career/college counseling phase of homeschooling! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[wintermom]

We're encouraging our dc to follow their passion, and while in middle/high school to gain volunteer experience in the fields they are excited about. There are so many career paths that are difficult to envision when you're not familiar with the field, so they can learn about some of these. They can also try and discover if this field is really where they want to work, or would it be a better hobby on the side.

[Tsuga]

Rather than focus on major, we talk about the difference between who you are, your hobbies / passion, and a job. A job is something you are likely to get paid for, like, paid enough to support yourself and two kids ideally.

 

"I want to be an artist!" leads to "You would make such a great artist in my opinion. What kind of job would allow you the flexibility, income, and spare time to pursue that dream?" And then explain that while some people make their living as artists, almost nobody is able to from the very start.

 

Or "I want to be a chef!" leads to a conversation of, "Wow, you mean you want to cook dinner 400 times a day?"

"No, just once a day."

"How about tonight, can you chop these carrots for me? And help measure the lemon juice?"

"I meant I want to bake donuts."

"Like all day?"

"Just in the mornings."

"So you mean you want to have me over for brunch once a week."

"Yeah, like that."

"Okay that sounds great but that's not what we mean when we ask 'what do you want to do when you grow up...' We mean what job are you thinking of."

"Can I get paid for eating donuts?"

"Not likely."

"But possible?"

"Almost impossible."

"But not TOTALLY impossible."

"Honey I am not going to pay for a degree in donut tasting, I will just say that."

"Awwww."

 

Even though the older kids don't know for sure what they want to do, having had conversations like this I believe has more grounded their beliefs about college in reality. I mean by all means study art, but we aren't paying for it.

 

I try to encourage my kids to dream, but that doesn't meant that 100% of their life has to be their dream. You can study archaeology with a minor in accounting and become a CPA to finance your scuba-diving hobby, for example. It's true, you should do what you're good at, but so much of our real passion involves things that nobody will pay us for, that I think there is balance in work vs. life, rather than "how little am I willing to make to spend all day scuba diving... and then what happens when I have kids or my husband gets relocated to Ohio..."

Edited March 4, 2016 by Tsuga

[Vida Winter]

I would be more inclined to let them "follow their dream" if they are on a full-tuition scholarship. (Actually it's not a case of "let them" but prepare well for entrance exams and apply strategically to schools where they have the greatest chance of ending up with no debt. We have saved a substantial amount but not the full amount of a college education. If they choose a high-debt route, they better be prepared to figure it all out because I am not going to be co-signing those loans.)

[Pegasus]

Ok, I'll fess up to steering DD in a direction.  We did the career exploration in high school but she still had no solid (or even vague) ideas of what she wanted to study in college or do as a career.  At most, she had some thoughts on things she did NOT want to do.  So, she is starting at the CC.  While I've made it clear that she is welcome to change her major if she finds something else she'd rather pursue, she has started out in computer science, at my encouragement, knowing her personality and academic strengths.

 

So far so good.  She is finding her courses interesting and is engaging with her classmates and instructors.

 

I'd support a major without a clear career connection only if the student was able to research and develop a personalized plan for what they would do after graduation. 

[Mom22ns]

I really don't think it is healthy to steer an adult into the decisions you want them to make. It is their education and future career. You can steer them toward something that will pay, but if they hate it, it won't pay. I've known too many people with degrees in good paying fields like engineering and law, that were working for peanuts in customer service jobs because they hated those careers.

 

We told our kids to follow their passion. Neither really had passions. We told them to find what they like, what they are capable of and what they would like to do as a career. That looks very different for each of our kids. Ds had more trouble finding a path than dd. Both are there though and none of my early ideas turned out to be their goals (at least not so far).

 

When ds started college with a major that doesn't pay and no real career plan for it, like others, we said no debt. Once he got there we encouraged him to try classes that interested him in other fields. He took a class this semester that made him add a major and set a completely different career goal. The new major is much more career oriented, so I think that is a good change, but I would never have tried to find it for him. 

 

Dd has always wanted a 4-year degree that ends in a job. She wants no debt and a guaranteed job she can work until she has kids or forever if necessary. She chose nursing. She chose a University that is inexpensive, has a nearly perfect certification pass rate and a 100% job placement rate for nurses. 

[daijobu]

And if she sticks with it, it will require grad school, for which she could take out loans (or perhaps go to grad school in Europe).  

 

I'm curious, do archaeology PhDs in the US pay tuition?  

[MerryAtHope]

I encourage career exploration in both high school and college and encourage my kids to consider the pros and cons, but I don't try to dissuade from certain careers. Instead, I encourage them to think about whether this is something they would love to be a hobby for life versus a career, and to think through expenses and pay as some, but not all, of the criteria to consider. 

 

I always enjoyed writing, and my mom had concerns that I would never make money doing that. I wavered back and forth on majors a lot, trying to find something more "marketable," but always ended up back as an English major (not journalism and no teaching certificate). However, that degree helped me get almost every job I've had after graduation, and has brought in hobby income as well. So, that colors my take on the whole issue. I think it's good for kids to think it through and try to make a good decision, but I wouldn't automatically poo-poo a seemingly less-marketable degree. I would help them think through pros and cons, and variations on an interest that might make getting a job easier, and I definitely steer them towards minimizing debt (I don't think it makes any sense to spend $40-50,000 a year on private school when we don't have that kind of money unless one absolutely IS going into a high-paying career). We have a family member who is a total wet-blanket on all college without a specific job in mind though, and I really don't find that helpful to a young person who is trying to find answers. I get the thinking... but I just think differently. 

[MarkT]

My DS is interested in STEM fields so I am happy there.  I will advise him on major as needed.

 

His choice of college will be limited.  No plane rides to get there and cost has to be less than or equal to state U (after merit aid etc).

[lisabees]

My DS is interested in STEM fields so I am happy there.  I will advise him on major as needed.

 

His choice of college will be limited.  No plane rides to get there and cost has to be less than or equal to state U (after merit aid etc).

 

This is what I tell my kids.  

 

Although, this third one may throw me for a loop, as he wants to apply to certain top-tier schools that offer no merit aid, but offer substantial financial aid, even to those families who make an upper middle class income.  These are schools that have a high return on investment, so I am willing to explore that path.  We will see where it leads us...

 

So far, I have not directed my kids on to (or off of) a certain career path. That may happen after college graduation!

[MarkT]

This is what I tell my kids.  

 

Although, this third one may throw me for a loop, as he wants to apply to certain top-tier schools that offer no merit aid, but offer substantial financial aid, even to those families who make an upper middle class income.  These are schools that have a high return on investment, so I am willing to explore that path.  We will see where it leads us...

 

I assume "financial aid" means loans. If so then let them know it is their financial burden not yours.  (Send them articles on folks stuck with lots of loans)

[creekland]

We're follow your dream parents with exceptions that their dream can't be a pimp, illegal drug dealer, or terrorist (had to add that last one in recent years).

 

It's been a blast watching our boys discover themselves.  We tell our guys to head out in a field they think they want, but keep their eyes open in college to see if they like anything else better since all kids really have limited exposure in their teens.

 

Oldest went out thinking he'd want microfinance in third world countries, so International Development as a major.  He switched to a business major sometime in college and is now 100% using that major running a small business.  He loves it. 

 

Middle has wanted to be a doctor since third grade.  He has only modified that to include wanting to do research as well.  He's done everything he needs to do, so far, and will be taking the MCAT April 1st (what a day for it, no?).  This summer he'll be applying and time will tell what happens.  It may be "just" MD or it may be MSTP.  (I know the odds for med school, but he's done enough and has impressed enough people that I no longer worry about his getting accepted somewhere, but MSTP is super highly competitive.)

 

Youngest has taken the longest to decide.  Botany.  Marine Bio.  Bio.  Theater.  Pastor.  Youth leader.  Now he's thinking he'd love to work with older folks and is contemplating a degree in Human Development, but he also loves Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies and is really contemplating majors and minors now in his sophomore year in college.  Many parents might be distressed over his lack of commitment.  We encourage him to try things and sort his mind out.  He already has a job offer he'd enjoy for when he finishes college, so that gives him a base to propel off of in his pursuit of seeing if he'd like anything else better.

 

All of mine have loved getting their educations - spreading their mind out far beyond what homeschooling in their teens could do.

 

It's been a real pleasure to watch.

 

And it's looking great for all three to be employed doing what they love - no steering required - just a terrific education, both academic and otherwise.

Edited March 5, 2016 by creekland

[lisabees]

I assume "financial aid" means loans. If so then let them know it is their financial burden not yours.  (Send them articles on folks stuck with lots of loans)

 

Mark - My kids understand that a financial aid package can include loans, grants and work study.  I only want to see grants (and, of course, work study is fine)!  

 

I am willing to let my kids take on Stafford loans.  Even that is a huge burden. Personally, I cannot afford a $5,000 loan at this time in my life.  I cringe at the thought of my 21 year old being saddled with a $25,000 one.  But...

[The Girls' Mom]

Like everything else around here, we just talk it out, a lot.  

 

We haven't told them they couldn't major in something, but we do go over all the pros and cons.  We also discourage going to college just to go.  (With the exception of the tuition free CC we get here, that is the bare minimum they have to do) So far all three are pursuing a degree in something and none of them are lucrative careers.  They are all, however, fairly stable careers.

 

My oldest wanted to be a writer for the longest time.  We talked a lot about how hard it can be to get published, and to make a self-supporting amount of money writing fiction. She was not interested in technical/non-fiction writing at all.  She then found a love of language, and is now taking classes in her third language.  She is a German major at CC.  However, she has a job at the small local library as their PR person/librarian.  Now, she wants to eventually get a degree in library science and become a full-time librarian.  She will likely never have a great paying job as a librarian, and may have to work two jobs to support herself as long as she remains single...but we are all ok with that.  She is also being very careful not to go into debt for her degree.

 

One of my twins is super passionate about becoming a forensic scientist.  We've talking through career opportunities within that field, and looked at so many different programs.  She has picked a very reasonable state school that has a flagship program that offers internships in the field.  She'll hopefully start at her chosen school in the fall of 2017.  

 

The other twin is fairly certain she wants to become an elementary school teacher.  She's going to go about it the most debt free way she can because she knows it doesn't always pay well.  She has changed her mind a lot the past few years though, so it wouldn't surprise me if she changed majors at least once in college. 

Overall we just really hammer into their head to not take on more debt than they can reasonably pay.  We've also stressed the importance of finding something, anything, that they can tolerate doing that will put a roof over their heads and food on their table.  Not being a professional writer doesn't mean you can never write.  Just like my choice to not become a professional artist doesn't mean I never produce art.  

 

 

[Tsuga]

Dd has always wanted a 4-year degree that ends in a job. She wants no debt and a guaranteed job she can work until she has kids or forever if necessary. She chose nursing. She chose a University that is inexpensive, has a nearly perfect certification pass rate and a 100% job placement rate for nurses. 

 

See... my sister chose nursing. Parenting win! I chose philosophy and went into non-profit work which was GREAT when I was young and single. Now as a parent who wants a good life for my kids... why. Why didn't I think of the max-out salary at that time? Now I tell all young people how wonderful it is to save the world in your spare time, after you've taken care of your kids.

[Lori D.]

I assume "financial aid" means loans. If so then let them know it is their financial burden not yours.  (Send them articles on folks stuck with lots of loans)

 

Financial aid means the specific package of scholarships + grants + work study + loans that a college offers to the individual student based on the EFC number on the student's FAFSA as well as on the student's ACT/SAT score and GPA.

 

So loans are a portion of financial aid, but not the entirety of financial aid.

[EmilyGF]

My sister and I both majored in engineering at a private school and got very good paying jobs immediately upon graduation. We both had student loans, but paid them off quickly and were able to both save sizable nest eggs before having kids, despite marrying young.

 

My brother, on the other hand, majored in art history (I think), then got a masters in comparative literature, and is in graduate school for comparative literature. He still has a few more years of grad school (and while he has a stipend, it is sometimes hard to make ends meet). So, my parents told him that they had spend a certain amount on us girls and that they would spend the same amount on him, but he'd probably have to make it last a number of years longer. He ended up doing the CC->State University -> Grad school with stipend path (and sometimes a bit of money from mom and dad). So they let him take a less lucrative direction but made sure it cost a lot less.

 

I do think he'll probably be successful in his field based on his personality and drive; and if not, hey, there's law school (only at a top-5 or top-10, though).

 

Emily