When they actually share and you wish you didn't know

[umsami]

This!!! 1000 times!! There are teens and college kids who are not participating in this type of behavior. I know several...they are out there!!

 

Yes, there are teens who do not do this..... and there are teens that do.  I don't think that teens who are sexually active are necessarily bad.... or those who are virgins are necessarily good.   There are a lot of aspects in what goes into a good, moral person.  17/18 year olds have sexual desires, that's part of nature.  If you add to it some religions (including mine) which say masturbation is wrong.... it only adds to the frustration. 

 

I don't like the unprotected/risky aspect of it, definitely.  But it sounds like with PP being 50 miles away and being in a very rural area/small town, only makes it more likely that teens will participate in this sort of behavior.

 

I was never sexually active in my teens, nor did I ever drink, but many of my friends were.  It did not make them bad people or bad friends. 

[SKL]

Ah, yes, obviously im talking as a married person who enjoys both.

As far as im concerned, if youve had anal youre not a virgin.

Do people really, honestly still believe those sorts of things about not getting pregnant?

I figure anyone having risky sex just doesnt care. How can anyone in this day in age honestly believe any of that stuff with all the education that happens. Even abstinence only education says youll get pregnant doesnt it? (Different country here)

 

I too find it hard to believe that people anyone over age 10 or so has not heard how you get pregnant and how you get STDs.

 

However, I think some people's ability to rationalize is tremendous.

 

I had a couple of colleagues who were adamant that the health risks of cigarette smoking were all lies.  This was in the 21st century.  And these were "mature," somewhat educated adults.  If they could talk themselves into "smoking is healthy," then sure, adolescents can talk themselves into "unprotected sex is safe."  That's why it's so scary.  If just telling kids the facts were enough, parenting would be the easiest thing on earth.  :/

 

[Tsuga]

Ah, yes, obviously im talking as a married person who enjoys both.

As far as im concerned, if youve had anal youre not a virgin.

Do people really, honestly still believe those sorts of things about not getting pregnant?

I figure anyone having risky sex just doesnt care. How can anyone in this day in age honestly believe any of that stuff with all the education that happens. Even abstinence only education says youll get pregnant doesnt it? (Different country here)

My high school had the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the state. It was not abstinence only education. It was just failure to hear, failure to listen, and denial is not just a river in Egypt.

[PineFarmMom]

Yes, there are teens who do not do this..... and there are teens that do. I don't think that teens who are sexually active are necessarily bad.... or those who are virgins are necessarily good. There are a lot of aspects in what goes into a good, moral person. 17/18 year olds have sexual desires, that's part of nature. If you add to it some religions (including mine) which say masturbation is wrong.... it only adds to the frustration.

 

I don't like the unprotected/risky aspect of it, definitely. But it sounds like with PP being 50 miles away and being in a very rural area/small town, only makes it more likely that teens will participate in this sort of behavior.

 

I was never sexually active in my teens, nor did I ever drink, but many of my friends were. It did not make them bad people or bad friends.

I don't even feel the need to go down the "good or bad" road. I'll step back and label it as wise versus unwise behavior. Many people are influenced by those they associate with. As an adult I have made friendship choices based on the wisdom or lack of wisdom of those I was befriending. I'm not talking casual friends but deep, close friendships. There are people out there who can bring turmoil and trauma into our lives just by their own poor choices.

[MegP]

I too find it hard to believe that people anyone over age 10 or so has not heard how you get pregnant and how you get STDs.

 

However, I think some people's ability to rationalize is tremendous.

 

I had a couple of colleagues who were adamant that the health risks of cigarette smoking were all lies.  This was in the 21st century.  And these were "mature," somewhat educated adults.  If they could talk themselves into "smoking is healthy," then sure, adolescents can talk themselves into "unprotected sex is safe."  That's why it's so scary.  If just telling kids the facts were enough, parenting would be the easiest thing on earth.  :/

 

 

In some very ultraconservative Christian homeschooling circles, parents do not talk to their kids (even teens) about sex. I have actually heard of groups that advocate only talking to their kids before their wedding night, and not before. How they get through high school biology is beyond me. I think maybe their teens know that basic facts (ie, how parts fit together, sperm, egg, etc) but nothing else. Nothing about STDs or birth control (the adults often don't use any in many families) or oral or anal sex or masturbation or  that people have sex for fun (not just to make babies). I know people like this in real life so I know there are people out there who really believe this. 

[SKL]

In some very ultraconservative Christian homeschooling circles, parents do not talk to their kids (even teens) about sex. I have actually heard of groups that advocate only talking to their kids before their wedding night, and not before. How they get through high school biology is beyond me. I think maybe their teens know that basic facts (ie, how parts fit together, sperm, egg, etc) but nothing else. Nothing about STDs or birth control (the adults often don't use any in many families) or oral or anal sex or masturbation or  that people have sex for fun (not just to make babies). I know people like this in real life so I know there are people out there who really believe this. 

 

OK I believe you, but the majority of kids getting STDs and getting pregnant are not in that subculture.  I am sure some are though.  I knew a family that went all holy roller when their kids were young.  Their daughter was sexually active for years before she became pregnant at 16.  Her parents tried all sorts of things to control her - very severe punishments and restrictions - but, well ....  And I don't believe it was *because* of religion, but obviously religion is not an antidote to teen sex (nor is child abuse, shame, etc.).  She had been molested as a child, and that was probably why she had a warped view of things.

[goldberry]

My DD has been raised pretty conservatively, with peers that had similar values.  She hasn't been in public school since 4th grade, and has friends from both church and a nerdy/science club we belong to.  We have always been very open with her, however, about sex and consequences from a very young age.  

 

When she started some college courses this year, she was genuinely surprised by the things talked about among her college mates.  18 year olds that lived with their boyfriends, and had for several years, random hookups mentioned very casually, etc.  

 

I read her the first couple of posts on this thread.  She was quiet for a few minutes, then said, "You know, I really am lucky I was raised the way I was. I'm glad I wasn't around all that."  We didn't keep her in the dark about things, and even made an effort sometimes to bring up topics that otherwise might not have come up.  But she was not exposed to those things directly, especially in the form of peer pressure, at such young ages as you see now.  

 

Lately she has been questioning some of our values and religious beliefs, so I was happy to see that she at least was able to see the good in some of it. 

[TranquilMind]

So dd 17 shared with me last night her concerns for many of her friends. Evidently she is the only one not having sex, and risky sex at that ( random hook ups, unprotected vaginal and anal sex, etc). She wanted my take on whether she should carry protection with her, what I thought she should tell her friends, and lots of other concerns. I, of course, reiterated safety, maturity, the need to avoid dangerous situations, my feeling that sex is best in a committed relationship and she was fine but I am shaken. It's not that her high achieving, church going " good girl" friends are having sex but that it is so unsafe and random. I almost wish she hadn't said anything.

I've spent a lot of time with one of mine this year, who is now recovering, praise the Lord, from a long term odd illness, but yeah...told me the same stuff in our many late night talks.  Everyone is apparently open to doing anything and everything with multiple people - and this is the conservative home school co-op crowd!  Yikes. 

 

I said the same stuff you did.  We talked a lot about disease.  I just can't imagine.  I thought my generation was behaving in a risky way, but gee....my friends might have had regular sex with just a long term boyfriend, and that was a big enough deal, the worry about pregnancy. 

 

I just can't imagine. 

Edited February 28, 2016 by TranquilMind

[TranquilMind]

OK I believe you, but the majority of kids getting STDs and getting pregnant are not in that subculture. I am sure some are though. I knew a family that went all holy roller when their kids were young. Their daughter was sexually active for years before she became pregnant at 16. Her parents tried all sorts of things to control her - very severe punishments and restrictions - but, well .... And I don't believe it was *because* of religion, but obviously religion is not an antidote to teen sex (nor is child abuse, shame, etc.). She had been molested as a child, and that was probably why she had a warped view of things.

We have ultraconservative, home schooling friends who had one daughter who went hog wild with the guys, one who did some stupid stuff (not as bad as the older one)and one who is on the straight and narrow. Three kids, three results, same parents!

Go figure.

(No molestation in that case, but the older one would not be stopped from getting together with her boyfriend starting in the early teens).

 

Meanwhile, I have a super permissive, liberal relative, who has three children, all highly conservative. Like, I'm seriously wondering how she produced them, and I produced some politically liberal kids. I'm starting to think it is a crapshoot. ;)

Edited February 28, 2016 by TranquilMind

[luuknam]

Another thought... you could have movie night/slumber party at your house and have the kids watch the movie Kids. I watched it on a school field trip to Paris when I was 14 and it spooked me a little (but in a good way).

 

Of course, when I was 14yo HIV/AIDS was a bigger worry than it is now. Obviously, it's still something you really don't want to catch, but I suspect most teens don't see it as death in 5-10 years (because it isn't, assuming you take the meds, which afaik are a big PITA).

[Scarlett]

Absolutely, but how do we know if our own kids are one of those kids? KWIM? We would not necessarily know.

The point is that outside of the idea of encouraging protection is that we should be encouraging our kids to move away from friends who are not living our values.

[Liz CA]

You could call the GP for them. Obviously, you can't make an STD testing appointment for them, but you could let the GP know that they *should* have an STD testing appointment so he might be able to tactfully talk at least *some* of them into that during their annual.

 

 

You really think that 20 years ago stuff like that didn't happen?

 

Oh, it happened. It was just not bantered about or openly discussed. Therefore most young children did not have these discussions at school. And this whole subject even varies when you consider different countries and other variables.

 

[Tsuga]

Oh, it happened. It was just not bantered about or openly discussed. Therefore most young children did not have these discussions at school. And this whole subject even varies when you consider different countries and other variables.

 

 

I am 38, so that would be me at 18, and we most certainly did. Rural, Christian-majority high school, urban (mixed socio-economically) middle school, believe me we talked about it.

[Liz CA]

I am 38, so that would be me at 18, and we most certainly did. Rural, Christian-majority high school, urban (mixed socio-economically) middle school, believe me we talked about it.

 

My point in all this is, and was originally, that 5-7 year old kids where I lived and also where my (then) elementary school student attended were not by and large facing what SKL's kids did at their school. Now, as I said in my previous post, this could be due to a number of variables, among them the passage of almost a quarter of a century.

[TranquilMind]

No hymen = no loss of virginity, aka the poophole loophole.

 

Talk to your kids about anal, people. It is most certainly a thing.

 

Also, OP... Hugs. Great that she talks to you.

That is the dumbest reasoning ever, and completely misses the point of retaining virginity, doesn't it?

 

It is kind of like a husband saying he didn't commit adultery because all he and the other woman did was oral stuff.

 

It might be a thing, but how disgusting. I can't remember what I had for dinner half the time, but I cannot erase from my mind this awful medical tale I read once where the woman said she now wears diapers and is scheduled for surgery because repeated acts of this caused her interior ring of ( can't recall name and will not Google) to break, leaving her permanently incontinent.

 

I wish I had never read that.

[Tanaqui]

It is kind of like a husband saying he didn't commit adultery because all he and the other woman did was oral stuff.

 

There are people who will say that, with a straight face too!

 

this awful medical tale I read once where the woman said she now wears diapers and is scheduled for surgery because repeated acts of this caused her interior ring of ( can't recall name and will not Google) to break, leaving her permanently incontinent.

 

Little known fact: This is actually a health crisis in parts of the developing world, due to poor post-partum care, not anal sex.

 

[OnMyOwn]

So dd 17 shared with me last night her concerns for many of her friends. Evidently she is the only one not having sex, and risky sex at that ( random hook ups, unprotected vaginal and anal sex, etc). She wanted my take on whether she should carry protection with her, what I thought she should tell her friends, and lots of other concerns. I, of course, reiterated safety, maturity, the need to avoid dangerous situations, my feeling that sex is best in a committed relationship and she was fine but I am shaken. It's not that her high achieving, church going " good girl" friends are having sex but that it is so unsafe and random. I almost wish she hadn't said anything.

This scares me. I think the availability of nonstop porn is having a big impact. Beyond the obvious fear of disease, it is the thought that my child would think so little of herself that she would allow others to use her and discard her like a piece of trash. That she might feel like she has to in order to fit in. And I'm not talking about one time of drinking a bit much and getting carried away.

 

I watched a documentary about a school district that was experiencing high numbers of syphilis. It turns out the kids were all watching porn and having group sex. It was pretty shocking because many of the girls they interviewed said that it wasn't something they necessarily wanted to do, but that everyone was doing it. They said that the guys treated them terribly but they kept doing it anyway, hoping they would want them for a girlfriend. The thing that really struck me was one little girl who was 13 who said she didn't realize her parents didn't want her to have sex.

 

I talked to my 14yo dd that night about how special and precious she is and that I hope she will always treat herself that way and demand that others treat her that way as well. I told her about the documentary and that I wanted her to know that I don't want her to have sex unless she is in a loving relationship. I never would have spoken with her that directly if I had not seen that program. I plan to talk to her many more times.

 

I really need to find a good sex ed program for both of my kids. It's not my favorite homeschooling subject. They did health through Sonlight when they were 10 and 12 but I'm not sure what they remember.

[Malory]

There are people who will say that, with a straight face too!

 

 

Little known fact: This is actually a health crisis in parts of the developing world, due to poor post-partum care, not anal sex.

Can you elaborate?  What kind of PP care they did not receive that would cause such a condition?  I think a relative of mine might have this condition.

[SeaConquest]

Can you elaborate?  What kind of PP care they did not receive that would cause such a condition?  I think a relative of mine might have this condition.

 

A lot of women get hemorrhoids and/or anal fissures in pregnancy/birth, and don't receive proper pp care. I've known several friends who have needed pp care for this issue.

 

Now, if you were a porn star, doing some of the more "exotic" things with your anus on a regular basis, I might be concerned. But, your run of the mill couple having consensual and pleasurable anal sex on occasion is probably not going to put a person into diapers.

[SparklyUnicorn]

The point is that outside of the idea of encouraging protection is that we should be encouraging our kids to move away from friends who are not living our values.

 

I guess.  I really don't care what people do in that department so long as they aren't raping people or something really awful. 

 

Another thought I have is I really hope my kids don't marry that young.  I'm not saying this is the worst thing ever, but I suspect some people in very strict and religious families who condemn sex before marriage feel compelled to marry very young.  That is one thing my parents mentioned to me 100,000 times.  Don't marry young they told me.  They married young and they said it was extremely difficult.  Obviously not everyone has it extremely difficult, but I just feel it is not the best idea generally to marry before you've got some of your act together.

 

I know people here will have their success stories, etc.  I'm not saying it is always difficult.  I'm just saying I'd rather not tell my kids to never have sex before marriage if it means they will get married at 18.

[katilac]

Can you elaborate?  What kind of PP care they did not receive that would cause such a condition?  I think a relative of mine might have this condition.

 

An obstetric fistula, a hole between the vagina and rectum or bladder, generally caused by lengthy childbirth.

 

In  countries with poor medical care, it is difficult to get the needed surgery, and the person faces a huge stigma. Oprah and others have started programs that give access to treatment. 

 

In TranquilMind's post, she was likely talking about an anal fistula - likely caused by lack of preparation or intentionally rough sex, which are also the most likely cause of injuries in vaginal sex. 

[MegP]

I really need to find a good sex ed program for both of my kids. It's not my favorite homeschooling subject. They did health through Sonlight when they were 10 and 12 but I'm not sure what they remember.

 

Not sure if you want something from a Christian perspective, but I recently bought a book called "Love, Sex, and God" (it says it is for ages 14 and up) that covers STDs, anatomy (there are drawings of a male and female, standing, as well as another drawing of the genitals of each) . The book also mentions (briefly) oral and anal sex, transgender issues,  dating, marriage, how to know when you are ready to have a  baby, etc.

 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Ah, the sticky wicket of the adults who preach abstinence only, would never believe their kids are hooking up and that it's only " bad" kids and who absolutely don't want to discuss it with their kids. I am so glad she felt she could talk to me. I'm sending up prayers and vibes of thankfulness on that.) We also discussed that if she ever felt she couldn't talk ith me her older sister ( who I truly trust to give good advice) would listen.

 

This is why my boys are learning everything (we used UU OWL for this), along the way we discussed our personal value system.

 

 

 

I strongly felt all the information is helpful. (I was given a book as a teen with all the info, no value judgement either way)

 

I strongly feel it is necessary to discuss family values (and perhaps related world/peer value systems) regarding the topics as well.  (Value systems were never discussed with me as a teen)

 

My value system may not end up being my children's.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Well, I don't think these kids are uneducated or feel particularly worthless. It's just an activity it seems. Boggles my mind but.... Dd and I talked more and her big concerns are she doesn't know how to get her friends ( and acquaintances, these discussions seem very casual not only her closest friends) to take the health risks seriously. I think these kids feel living in the country somehow protects them. Obviously not true! We also had a fun off topic discussion that she is the kid people would worry about by appearance ( purple hair, artsy, outspoken) and yet she is the girl who has never even dated. As to changing her friends we talked about peer pressure, (not being in a place you shouldn't, parties) but if the homeschooling, church going honor society and GS folks are who you are already friends with..... Again, just so glad she will talk with me even if she admits it feels really weird.

[Tsuga]

That is the dumbest reasoning ever, and completely misses the point of retaining virginity, doesn't it?

 

It is kind of like a husband saying he didn't commit adultery because all he and the other woman did was oral stuff.

 

It might be a thing, but how disgusting. I can't remember what I had for dinner half the time, but I cannot erase from my mind this awful medical tale I read once where the woman said she now wears diapers and is scheduled for surgery because repeated acts of this caused her interior ring of ( can't recall name and will not Google) to break, leaving her permanently incontinent.

 

I wish I had never read that.

 

Anal sex in and of itself doesn't cause incontinence, but I see that has been addressed above.

 

Anyway, the point was that if you know what kind of coercive and/or dishonest tactics your child might encounter, you can prepare them. Regardless of your opinions of non-vaginal sex, what your kids need to know is that some people believe this is not sex and may ask if they're interested. Knowing about it beforehand is useful information.

 

Believe me, at least two girls in my high school who got pregnant and later claimed that "but we were underwater!" (that girl was not too bright) and "but I'm still a virgin, it wasn't all the way in!"

 

They need knowledge--if you don't approve feel free to let it be known but the truth is really the best thing you can give them.

[Scarlett]

I guess. I really don't care what people do in that department so long as they aren't raping people or something really awful.

 

Another thought I have is I really hope my kids don't marry that young. I'm not saying this is the worst thing ever, but I suspect some people in very strict and religious families who condemn sex before marriage feel compelled to marry very young. That is one thing my parents mentioned to me 100,000 times. Don't marry young they told me. They married young and they said it was extremely difficult. Obviously not everyone has it extremely difficult, but I just feel it is not the best idea generally to marry before you've got some of your act together.

 

I know people here will have their success stories, etc. I'm not saying it is always difficult. I'm just saying I'd rather not tell my kids to never have sex before marriage if it means they will get married at 18.

Well you would if you felt it would displease God. But it doesn't have to be marry young or have premarital sex. There is the option of do t have premarital and dont marry young.

 

And if you want to avoid having premarital sex you will have better success if you surround yourself with other like minded people rather than peers who are leading double lives and hooking up with strangers.

[SKL]

I think I might be going into my second childhood, but the anal discussion suddenly made me think of the Rookie Science series "it could still be ___."

 

It could be all the way in or not, and still be sex.

It could be oral or anal, and still be sex.

It could be with a male or a female, and still be sex.

You could have your eyes closed and it could still be sex ....

 

Well, anyway, good point that we should (at an appropriate time) tell our kids that they might be asked to do certain things that fall in the category of "sex," although some of these are things I don't even want to think about.  :P

[TranquilMind]

Anal sex in and of itself doesn't cause incontinence, but I see that has been addressed above.

 

Anyway, the point was that if you know what kind of coercive and/or dishonest tactics your child might encounter, you can prepare them. Regardless of your opinions of non-vaginal sex, what your kids need to know is that some people believe this is not sex and may ask if they're interested. Knowing about it beforehand is useful information.

 

Believe me, at least two girls in my high school who got pregnant and later claimed that "but we were underwater!" (that girl was not too bright) and "but I'm still a virgin, it wasn't all the way in!"

 

They need knowledge--if you don't approve feel free to let it be known but the truth is really the best thing you can give them.

No arguments on that point. It has been discussed, but ...ugh.