Acceleration and Grade Skipping -- this is really new for me.

[LisaKinVA]

Those of you in military communities, have you found more grade-skipping in DoDEA schools that in other school systems?  Is there a bigger community "push" to get kids "done" and "out?"  I know there is a huge push (within the BSA Troop here, to get kids through Eagle fast).

 

One of the reasons I homeschool is to provide an education which best reflects my kids gifts/talents/learning needs at any given time.  Acceleration and grade skipping are not new concepts.  However, I haven't lived within a community that has such a seemingly large number of kids who have been skipped a grade (or two).  It's a bit mind-boggling that it's the "go to" method for meeting kids educational needs.

 

I was actually shocked when talking to the school counselors about placing my kids...that they would place my child(ren) wherever I thought it appropriate. Blondie was in 1st grade at home, so I put her in 1st grade at the school.  They quickly skipped her into 2nd, because she was so far ahead academically.  She was still in the top section of her 2nd grade class, especially in math and reading.  I brought her home full time, and put her back in the grade she would have been had we not experimented with the elementary school.  

 

We've been here two years now, and this year I was really startled by the number of kids who have (or are) being grade-skipped.  I am really starting to wonder about the long-term effects emotionally and socially.  Please don't get me wrong, I know there ARE children who benefit greatly from being around kids who are older, who really need to be around more mature kids.  But, it has not been my experience that this is a large percentage of even gifted kids -- assuming their educational needs can be met in other ways.

 

This year, about 10% of the graduating high school class will graduate having just turned 17 this spring, or even just before leaving for college.  I know at least one junior who just turned 15 (but is struggling to come up with the math credits she needs/wants, because she moved from an integrated math school in AUS to the DoDEA system, and just placed into Algebra 2).  I know may of these kids -- most of them ARE bright, but only one that I know is both truly exceptional academically AND is also mature enough for college.  I'm struggling, because the parents are thinking she's going to get into an excellent college -- but the facts of her course load, and what her courses will be her senior year vs. the "average" senior applying to those colleges do not support this. 

 

We often hear talk about how "redshirting" or "holding kids back" is disastrous.... I am wondering about the later impacts of grade skipping and social-emotional challenges these kids skipped in K-3 will face in grades 6-12, and beyond.

 

Thoughts?  Experience? 

 

**Note** I am not insecure about our decisions to place our children where they would be in school, or even a year below -- especially if that met their social/emotiona/developmentall needs better.  My only child (thus far) who would have really needed a 2-grade skip in a public school has zero desire to graduate early.  We've just matched her coursework to her abilities.  

[Mama Geek]

I am not planning on b and m school.  Dd is about 5 1/2 and dh and I both feel like teach her as much as possible at home.  Give her as much breadth and depth as we can before she starts college.  There are so many things that we can teach her that we have no intention of an early graduation.  I know it is a long way off and things may change but that is how we have both felt from the beginning.

[ThisIsTheDay]

Right off the bat, the majority of those "early" graduates will be at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to college--beginning with testing.  They are essentially in competition with students who are 1-2 years older.  Consider a 16 year old high school senior taking the SAT compared to an 18 year old.  Those two years can make a huge difference.  You've already mentioned maturity levels, so I won't repeat that, but I agree with you 100% there too.

 

I know this isn't the topic, but I wonder why DoD schools have what are obviously lower standards for grade levels.

[Amira]

I'm not military, but anecdotally I do see more grade skipping in internationally mobile communities than I do in the US communities I've lived in. I think that mobility had something to do with it- my middle son was always working ahead and we finally officially moved him ahead one year at the beginning of high school when we had an idea of our moves for a few years out and wanted him to graduate at the end of our next job instead of dealing with a year of transition for his senior year. I know quite a few other people who have done the same thing (not as homeschoolers) and I think it can be very helpful.

 

However, I also see more skipping in early years and I'm not so sure that's a good idea (but it's also the easiest time to skip if you want to do that). It's possible that more parents in the US would have their children skip a grade if it were a more common option like it is at DoD schools and many international schools. When my youngest is in school in the US or overseas, I plan to keep him in the grade that matches his typical US counterparts as much as possible because I don't see a lot of advantages to skipping for the majority of children.

[bettyandbob]

I'm not military. I skipped a couple of grades and I have a child who skipped a grade over my objections (dh and school really thought it was best. So, your topic got my attention. I think the culture you've described is misguided. 

 

If a student is interested in a competitive university program, it is really a mistake to graduate without advanced math (calculus) and science classes. Having toured several colleges with my own dc in recent years, all the more competitive schools are expecting advanced courses in all subject areas including math and science, even for applicants who are seeking humanities majors. 

 

I also believe it is a mistake to graduate early a student who is immature, regardless of academic level. An advanced academic student can keep taking AP and duel enrollment, online dual enrollment to his nonaccelerated graduation date. Thus, giving him a little more time to mature with his parents' supervision. It doesn't do a student any good to send him off to university when he could use some work on organization, impulse control or whatever other maturity issue they might have. Who wants to bring a child home on academic probation. 

 

For a student who is mature and already very accelerated then early graduation makes sense. I would view the student taking the initiative to bring up the option of him graduating early as one sign he ready to seriously consider this. 

 

For the average to above average  student, who is mature and does not want to pursue college or plans to start at cc early graduation may be a good way to go. 

 

Grade skipping at young ages can be a mistake because you don't have an idea how maturity is going to go in the teen years. It is better to keep a child nominally in his grade and provide acceleration within the nominal grade. You can place a child in the math level he is ready for (algebra in fifth or sixth grade) and wait to decide if he is one of those exceptional students who is both academically prepared for and mature enough for the challenge of a competitve university. If you skip multiple grades in elementary school, you limit your ability to make a judgement call about maturity through the teen years. 

[catz]

I think this is a failure of the school to accomodate kids that don't fit into their typical box. Both my kids are HG/PG range and in No way shape of form do I think they have the focus or output abilities to be AS successful in a higher grade. I've worked with many groups of gifted kids. Most of the have some asynchronous stuff going on and a straight grade skip or 2 is not what they really need. My son went to k and first. He was reading at jr. High level and could understand fractions and percentages. A single grade skip would have done almost nothing for him academically and he would have been out of his mind if forced to produce more paperwork. I do think it is a disadvantage when you are doing college entry for scholarships, etc. At least our local high schools have good honors/AP/PSEO options. I have seen parents undue early grade skips with homeschooling. You never know what puberty will bring either. My son's 7th and 8th grade years were a train wreck. He grew like a foot. This year 9th is going much better. He started algebra in 5th grade. If he now as a teen wanted to graduate early, I'd help him get his ducks in a row, but he has no interest.

 

I haven't seen red shirting be a big disaster here either since the start of all day focused kindergarten. I will say I'm glad I can home school my kids.

Edited February 2, 2016 by WoolySocks

[....]

 

Thoughts?  Experience? 

 

 

Er..not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I graduated high school at 16 (and so did my sister).  I have no regrets/wouldn't have done things differently.  I couldn't imagine spending another minute in high school.  It felt like a prison sentence.  I posted about this on the accelerated board once.    

 

About being at a disadvantage for testing - I wasn't.  In fact, I ended up with one of the highest scores in the country on a certain entrance exam I took.  I never took the SAT, so I'm not sure how I would've scored.  My sister ended up going to a pretty prestigious law school (so it didn't hurt her, either).  She was the youngest in her graduating class.  Now, she DID have trouble finding a job when she graduated - and we all think it was because of her age.  She did eventually find one, though...  

 

I probably did have an aura of "not knowing what the *bleep* I was doing" everywhere I went, but there were always people around to give me advice, etc (people in their mid-twenties LOVE to give advice - LOL).  

 

My oldest right now could definitely grade-skip, but we probably won't, because we are able to meet her needs at home (she homeschools) and she's happy.  She also has a bit of anxiety, so homeschooling an extra year won't hurt her.  I didn't have that kind of childhood.  Our high school was pretty toxic.  It was a waste of time for me.  I probably will allow Kid #4 to grade-skip in a few years.  I'm thinking she will skip 7th or 8th grade.  The difference between those two girls is...Kid #4 missed the kindergarten cut-off by just days.  In all of her activities, she seems to be much older/more advanced than the other kids in her grade.  If anyone in this house is going to skip a grade, it's going to be her.

 

Anyway, there's my thoughts...   :tongue_smilie:    

[....]

 

We often hear talk about how "redshirting" or "holding kids back" is disastrous.... 

 

 

For the record, I am actually pro-redshirting if they need to.

[Gil]

I have not done any paperwork so it isn't official with a department somewhere, but my youngest has a grade skip. At home I consider him a 3rd grader. If I were to ever put him in a school, I would not accept that he'd be placed in his age grade. I'd fight that his (homeschool) grade skip be honored and accommodated. When he asks the question "What grade am I in?" I tell him 3rd. When people ask what grade he's in, I tell them 3rd.

 

If anyone wants to know why his age and grade don't sync, I say he skipped Kindergarten.

[DawnM]

Around here, holding kids back a grade has been the most popular.....I haven't heard as much about moving them forward other than in the HS circles.  

 

However, my current 16 year old, 10th grader, is looking at an early college program for next year.  It is a 3 year program (11th-13th) where he can get a high school diploma and an AA through the public school system.

[DawnM]

D/P

Edited February 2, 2016 by DawnM

[Dmmetler]

My DD ended up in K at age 4 because her school decided it was a better fit. At 4, it was, but not enough. When they suggested a 2nd, double grade skip, putting her in 3rd grade at age 5, we ended up homeschooling. I wasn't concerned about social development at that time, but sitting still and writing. A 3rd grade class at that school used 4th grade Saxon math, and just the amount of writing expected in math alone would have killed DD. At this point, her level of work ranges from early high school to using materials normally done in upper division college and graduate school. Her friends range from 5 to adulthood.

 

FWIW, we are in an area with a pretty big naval base, and DD was the first kid skipped in 20 years.

 

At 11, I see both sides. I can't imagine her in the social situations at a high school-but I also can't imagine her managing a middle school because there would be so little academic challenge, and she tends to shut down when things are too easy. I'm just glad that we are able to homeschool at this point.

 

DD is interested in early college. She also wants to go to high school for the fun stuff. I'm not sure where we'll end up, but I'm kind of glad that we refused the 2nd, double grade skip so we have more options.

Edited February 2, 2016 by dmmetler

[bettyandbob]

I think this is a failure of the school to accomodate kids that don't fit into their typical box.

Exactly.

I think it is rare that a young child needs to be skipped. Skipping is done to accommodate the school not the child.

[AngieC]

Er..not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I graduated high school at 16 (and so did my sister).  I have no regrets/wouldn't have done things differently.  I couldn't imagine spending another minute in high school.  It felt like a prison sentence.  I posted about this on the accelerated board once.    

 

About being at a disadvantage for testing - I wasn't.  In fact, I ended up with one of the highest scores in the country on a certain entrance exam I took.  I never took the SAT, so I'm not sure how I would've scored.  My sister ended up going to a pretty prestigious law school (so it didn't hurt her, either).  She was the youngest in her graduating class.  Now, she DID have trouble finding a job when she graduated - and we all think it was because of her age.  She did eventually find one, though...  

 

I probably did have an aura of "not knowing what the *bleep* I was doing" everywhere I went, but there were always people around to give me advice, etc (people in their mid-twenties LOVE to give advice - LOL).  

 

My oldest right now could definitely grade-skip, but we probably won't, because we are able to meet her needs at home (she homeschools) and she's happy.  She also has a bit of anxiety, so homeschooling an extra year won't hurt her.  I didn't have that kind of childhood.  Our high school was pretty toxic.  It was a waste of time for me.  I probably will allow Kid #4 to grade-skip in a few years.  I'm thinking she will skip 7th or 8th grade.  The difference between those two girls is...Kid #4 missed the kindergarten cut-off by just days.  In all of her activities, she seems to be much older/more advanced than the other kids in her grade.  If anyone in this house is going to skip a grade, it's going to be her.

 

Anyway, there's my thoughts...   :tongue_smilie:    

 

This is very similar to my experience.  I left high school my senior year to complete my freshman year of college (though I didn't graduate until after my freshman year of college) - I was barely turned 17 at the time.  It was the best decision for me and I don't regret a thing, nor would I do things differently if I had ti to do over.  I was miserable in high school and grateful to get out a year early.

 

Also, my dd is grade skipped. However, she is only a couple of weeks past the cut-off in a state with a very early cut off.  In most states in the country, she would have been the grade ahead anyway, so I don't think it's fair to claim that grade skipping is good or bad without knowing the whole story.  

 

 

[LisaKinVA]

Personally, my elementary experience was stellar.  I was always allowed to accelerate in the classroom, even if I was in a cubby doing my own work while the class did something else (usually I was sent to another class for a reading group, or math group...everything else I progressed right along with the class, except for music and GT pullouts, I realize had I been homeschooled I probably would have self-accelerated faster, because the school was making me do every math problem and every reading assignment instead of every other math problem or 2/3 of the reading assignments).  

 

I was offered a grade skip twice, but my parents refused.  I probably was one of the rare birds who would have done just fine.  I did seek out older peers.  I was rarely highly challenged -- and opted to home school because high school was more or less a waste of time (even with honors and AP courses).  I say this to underscore I DO think in certain circumstances grade skipping can be beneficial.  I was just shocked at the number of kids HERE who are grade-skipped.  It would have been easier for DD (8th) to get a full grade skip into high school than it was trying to get her permission to audit a high school art course.

 

I think you may be right that skipping is done to accommodate the school and not the child.

[wapiti]

I don't think there's anything unusual about skipping being the only available solution for a bright student who doesn't fit into the PS box.

 

What is unusual is the school's willingness to actually do it at the elementary level, on the one hand, and on the other, the failure to offer remotely sufficient coursework at the high school level.

Edited February 2, 2016 by wapiti

[shawthorne44]

One thing to consider, if several kids are being grade skipped, then there might not be the social problems.  

 

I really regret that I wasn't grade skipped.  I was about ready to be skipped in the middle of 3rd grade and then we moved.  I remember about a month into 3rd grade a new girl joined the class and we took to each other instantly.  Looking back I wonder if there had been some teacher nudging.  She'd been grade skipped but had no friends, so they dropped her into mine.   I was the second smartest in the class, so they were going to move us up together.   She was a really great person and I wasn't challenged in school until High School.   

[Jenny in Florida]

See, my sense is that K-12 has been so watered down in a lot of ways that many (maybe even most) kids are actually capable of skipping a grade or two, especially in the early years when there is so much review built into most curricula. 

 

Most of the kids I know found school boring and found that the only challenges had to do with completing the busy work, not with the difficulty of the work, itself.

 

Of course, if it were possible to do more differentiating in the classroom, to loosen up the edges of those boxes a bit, then it might be possible to cope with this and still keep age-mates together. But that's not usually how it works.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Jenny in Florida

[Jenny in Florida]

Er..not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I graduated high school at 16 (and so did my sister).  I have no regrets/wouldn't have done things differently.  I couldn't imagine spending another minute in high school.  It felt like a prison sentence. 

 

I felt the same way. I would have done pretty much anything to get out of high school. Eventually, I more or less quit going at all and created enough of a mess that my parents had no choice but to let me "drop out." I took the state's equivalency exam, finished what would have been the first semester of my junior year on a Friday afternoon and started classes at the community college on Monday morning. I was 16, hadn't even graduated from high school and had no trouble at all transitioning to college. High school, for me, was that pointless.

[SKL]

I'm not military, but could it be that all those moves cause many kids to progress more slowly academically, pulling the average standards down, and making it more necessary to find a better placement for kids who are advanced?

 

Also, add me to the list of people who were effectively grade skipped and much happier for it.  :)  I really hated the way teens were treated in public school.

 

My ACT score was good, 3rd highest in my high school (my older brother being in the 2nd spot and an 18yo girl in the 1st), but I had no plans to seek entry into a fancy wow university.  That may be the case for many of the kids in the DoD schools too.  Not everyone wants to compete for a place in a very selective school.

Edited February 2, 2016 by SKL

[Seasider]

I think the social aspect is much less a factor in a military setting where families are frequently relocating. As kids shift to new schools, they are entering a new cohort anyway; it seems rather progressive to me that the kids be placed where they fit academically. I assume a parent could always decline to accelerate the child if the parent felt the child weren't mature enough to move up.

[catz]

 

Of course, if it were possible to do more differentiating in the classroom, to loosen up the edges of those boxes a bit, then it might be possible to cope with this and still keep age-mates together. But that's not usually how it works.

 

I'm not picking on you, but since I came down on the side of not hugely in favor of grade skipping, I just want to be clear.  I'm NOT huge on lock step age classes by any stretch.  My kids are wildly accelerated in a homeschool setting.  I just started my freshman son with a new music teacher that typically only works with adults, most professional, working musicians because that's what he really needs now.  The lock step kid teachers do not at all work for him.   I look for classes where they can be on the younger end of grade level typically.

 

I do think schools should be designed to be able to accommodate kids at a variety of academic levels and maturity levels.  My 6 year old boy reading at 7th grade+ level was slapped with ADHD threats at school.  Nope.  Just bored and not accommodated and some sensory quirks. But would he have "behaved" better bumped up a grade or 2 where there was even more writing and sitting?  Definitely not. 

 

I also think there should be a method of educating kids until they're adult age.  Why is a child that's ahead not entitled to a public education until they're a legal adult?  I do think our local high schools do a fairly good job at this.  Many of those kids that graduate with their age mates that are getting into competitive schools have spent 2-3 years taking free college classes through PSEO.  There are often 3 levels of something like history or English offered in the classroom.   But for elementary?  I think there are more GT magnet schools going up and more non-traditional options for families that can get into them.  But, it's not great and that's where it gets hard.  Some GT schools and programs replace acceleration with more busy work. 

 

We have a large and robust GT organization and community and over the years watching, if you're going to decide to graduate a kid early, it seems safer once a kid is into puberty.  I do know more than a few parents who regretted an early grade skip between 7th grade - 10th grade.   Some undid it with homeschooling or a school transfer.  Some just felt locked into it at that point.  I know one senior this year grade skipped whose executive function lagged to the point where he probably isn't even going to head to college at all next year.  He was reading at 3.  He's definitely a kid that would have done better in a non-traditional/homeschool setting IMO.  I know another grade skipped girl with very high test scores that ended up dropping out of a competitive college her freshman year and came home to CC. 

 

I just feel like you only get one chance to do a full on adult launch.  I'd rather do it late than early.  Sometimes early grad is the right choice for some kids, I don't deny that at all.  Sometimes it's the least bad choice for a kid locked into a broken, poorly designed system IMO.   If we were rural and didn't have the free college in high school option (which is also open to homeschoolers), I may even be thinking about it for my kids even as a homeschooler. 

[cera2]

My experience has been that if those kids wind up back in the states in a non-DoD school they are often just average or below average in the grade they have been placed in and often wind up being held back (if young) or moved into a less rigorous private school (if older) so that they don't struggle as much.

[cjzimmer1]

Honestly I would love to see a school where kids are grouped by ability not age, let kids move forward in areas of strength and spend time in weaker areas all without the stigma of "being really smart" or "being dumb".  I had a love hate relationship with school.  I loved when we actually got to learn something new (like once a week or so) but hated the constant drill and repetition which bored me to death.  When I found others things to deep to keep my mind engaged(not disruptive, just like drawing a picture or reading a book), I'd get in trouble for not paying attention, except that I didn't need to pay attention because I already understood the concept.  But socially I couldn't have handled moving up in the current age segregated classes.  My sister started school at 4 (and was that age through half of K), she was always at the top of class all the way through high school graduation.  But my mom said she always struggled with the being youngest in her class.  It's a tough call.  I remember being teased a lot for doing well in school, for ruining the curve etc and the funny part is that I never really tried that hard.  I would imagine that would be worse if you were much younger than the other kids in class but at the same time it really sucks the joy out of learning for kids when they have to endure tedious lessons on things they already understand.

[Farrar]

This is an interesting discussion. Obviously there's a sort of negative take on it here and it does sound like in the wider view - like these kids heading to college - that there are some negative reasons not to do it. However, in and of itself, I don't think it has to be negative. You think of those old one room schoolhouses and how they just advanced kids as needed and graduated them when they were done, regardless of age. If you're doing to a couple of kids to get out of figuring out how to offer gifted education, that's negative. But if the whole school is relatively small and many classes are ending up being more multi-aged, I'm guessing that it could work a lot better than in a more traditional, large public school system.

 

I guess I'm thinking as long as everyone's expectations are managed and clear then it's not necessarily bad. I mean, I think it's okay for a kid to max out the education a school can provide at a good level and then take a gap year to prep for college - it doesn't even have to be parents directing it, a kid could just take a semester or two of classes at a community college. It sounds to me like the problem is more that the parents don't have this expectation of needing to wait. Also, I'd say sometimes kids are just ready to move on anyway and it's hard for us to know.

[Heather in VA]

 

 

Grade skipping at young ages can be a mistake because you don't have an idea how maturity is going to go in the teen years. It is better to keep a child nominally in his grade and provide acceleration within the nominal grade. You can place a child in the math level he is ready for (algebra in fifth or sixth grade) and wait to decide if he is one of those exceptional students who is both academically prepared for and mature enough for the challenge of a competitve university. If you skip multiple grades in elementary school, you limit your ability to make a judgement call about maturity through the teen years. 

 

 

I think this is the key. Sure you can have an idea because often mature kids are mature when they are young as well, but you don't really know when they are young. Wait to decide. 

 

My 16 year old is graduating from high school this year and will be going away to college. I have no worries about her maturity or ability to handle it academically or socially. She was always very mature and advanced but we never considered skipping a grade when she was younger. In fact we didn't even plan for the early graduation until last summer when we realized she was ready and it was time.