Vent: Bad Attitude around Cleaning

[MrsWeasley]

I'm sick and really grumpy as a result of it. Why can't my kids clean up after themselves with a decent attitude? We haven't been doing much school, due to my illness, and so the kids have been playing more. Unless I'm there to remind them, they don't clean up immediately after themselves. They fight about who played with what and the unfairness of cleaning up anything they might have not been the last person to touch. My almost six year old, overwhelmed by the mess they've created, whine that cleaning it will take forever. My almost nine year old says that she feels like she's the mom when I ask her to clean up after her breakfast and that I treat her like a slave when I ask her and her brother to clean up the toys in the living room. I'm so mad. I just want to throw out all the toys. I want my tween to spend one day doing all the chores I do to keep this house afloat day in day out, sick or not. I try to remind myself that they are little, that they've had a rough year, that I set the tone in this house and my leadership sucks right now. So instead of yelling at my kids, I'm throwing myself a pity party here. I don't have it in me to deal with this productively right now. 

[happi duck]

(Hugs)

[Miss Mousie]

:grouphug:   So sorry you're sick!  That always throws a wrench in the works.

 

I know you're annoyed; but you are also right - they are young.  My 14 yr old *still* won't do a chore without being told, but just because he sees it needs to be done.  And even when he *is* told, it's often shoddy work.  Yesterday I asked him to clean the bathrooms; he only cleaned the toilets.  I asked him to empty the compost; he checked it off his list and then forgot to actually do it.  I'm afraid kids just don't see cleaning the same way parents do.

 

As for the toys, I wouldn't throw them out, but I definitely would fill up a trash bag and let them hibernate somewhere for awhile.  Not all of the toys, just whatever fits in the bag.  When the kids ask, tell them that all the whining & complaining shows you that they just have too many toys and they are overwhelmed when it's time to put them away.  Solution: fewer toys.  Tell them that if they can keep their remaining toys tidy without all the mouthiness (the "slave" bit would have thrown me into a tizzy!) for X amount of time, you will slowly release some hibernating toys back into the wild, so to speak.  ;)

 

But most of all, give yourself a break.  Life is tougher than usual right now, and while it's good to be able to control one aspect of the chaos (by cleaning), it's also OK if it isn't up to your normal standards.

 

[Arcadia]

:grouphug:

It took my boys years to clean up without supervision and without whining. My oldest complains a little and then do it well. My youngest would complain before he start all the way until after he ends. Sometimes he still gives a sulky face after oldest helps him out.

 

There is plenty on your plate rigt now. I found getting my kids to make their own lunch the easiest chore for them because they find it fun. See which chore your kids hate the least and start on that one.

[kroe1]

Just do not pick up or clean. The stuff, dust, and dog hairs will not go anywhere.

[Carol in Cal.]

This is so normal.

And so utterly infuriating.

[mamiof5]

I am so sorry you are sick and don't have the energy to deal with this! I hope you get better very soon. However, when you said little I was thinking more on the lines of 5,6,7 yrs old or less? I don't necessarily consider your nkids little, they are VERY capable of helping you a lot, specially cleaning up after themselves! I am sorry, but your dd saying she feels like a mom for being asked to pick up her own dishes?? That infuriates me. You are not her maid, or her slave, and she is at an age to help with dishes and more. I am sorry, but their attitude wouldn't fly in our household. Hope you get better very soon!

[MrsWeasley]

I am so sorry you are sick and don't have the energy to deal with this! I hope you get better very soon. However, when you said little I was thinking more on the lines of 5,6,7 yrs old or less? I don't necessarily consider your nkids little, they are VERY capable of helping you a lot, specially cleaning up after themselves! I am sorry, but your dd saying she feels like a mom for being asked to pick up her own dishes?? That infuriates me. You are not her maid, or her slave, and she is at an age to help with dishes and more. I am sorry, but their attitude wouldn't fly in our household. Hope you get better very soon!

 

I wanted her to put the milk and cereal away and wash her dishes, as we don't have a dishwasher and she eats breakfast at a time different from everyone else. (Being sick, I haven't been as strict about bedtimes and she's staying up late reading and rising later than my early rising almost six year old and two year old.) If it sits in the sink until I do lunch dishes, the cereal gets stuck on and it's very difficult to clean.Once you've rinsed it, it's not that much work just to finish cleaning it, but she feels like I'm treating her like an adult, since I wash her younger brothers' dishes with them "helping" me but I want her to do it alone. I need to get stricter about bedtime: I'm just the sickest during the evening and night and barely have energy to cajole the two year old to bed.

[KrissiK]

I'm sorry you're not feeling good. That always makes everything worse. But.... I would say your kids are typical. My kids do nothing without me reminding them. Regarding cleaning up, here are a few principles that I have instituted that seem to work

1) they each are responsible for a zone to clean up. That eliminated the fighting over who made the mess. They just clean up everything in that zone. The only caveat is if one person made a huge mess, like Legos or crafts, or Lincoln logs. Then they clean up their own mess. Zones are rotated each week, since some zones get messier than others.

2) we have regular chores. It's a fight if I just tell them randomly to do a chore. But if they know they are responsible to clear the dinner dishes, or take out the trash or clean out the dishwasher then, even if I have to remind them, it's easier.

3) leverage, leverage, leverage. "You want to do video game? Clean up your zone. You want to watch tv? Is the dishwasher cleaned out?" Every possible fun thing they want to do during the day needs to be tied to a chore bring done.

[Garga]

I feel for ya.  It's the same way here. 

 

[Garga]

I used to have a friend way back in elementary school.  Her house was a disaster.  Food everywhere, messy, just awful.

 

Except for her bedroom. Her bedroom was spotless.  She cleaned it all herself and kept it very nice.

 

I kinda wish I'd had one of those kinds of kids.  Maybe she had OCD or was miserable at how messy her house was and cleaned her room as some sort of way to stay sane in the mess, but I'd like to think she was simply a tidy person and enjoyed cleaning.  And I wish I'd gotten one of those kids.  But no, I got kids just like me.  Kids who hate cleaning.  Le Sigh.

 

 

[J-rap]

I think your kids are typical too.  It wasn't until my kids were much older that I realized how young they had been!   ha  :)

 

I make picking up as effortless as possible.  One big tray for completed assignments, individual trays (or shelves) for each child's homeschool materials.  A big basket for toys downstairs, and another one upstairs.  Smaller baskets for Legos, etc., etc.  Everyone clears their place after meals.  I gave them each a short (generally, about 5-10 minutes) chore as part of their daily homeschool assignments that varied every day.  That kept it more interesting.  (Take the magnets off the front of the fridge and clean the front of the fridge, clean the inside of the microwave oven, clean up the dog messes in the backyard, throw together ingredients for bread in the bread machine, pick and arrange flowers for a centerpiece.  I tried to make these jobs kind of fun now and then too.)  Then they each had a chore that was doing their part in keeping up the house.  It might be a daily one (empty the dishwasher), or it might be weekly (mow the lawn, as they got older).  

 

The reality was that our house was never very clean;  it was more just keeping up the best we could from day to day, and not making a big deal about it.

 

Their rooms were usually pretty messy, and only got really clean when we were having overnight guests and their rooms would be used!  Then, we cleaned their rooms together.  

 

They did get to know that they had to finish their small job during homeschool hours before I signed them out for the day, and they had to do their more regular chore in order to get together with their friends, etc.  It was never very much for them to do, but I'm sure they still felt like it was a huge interruption of their day.  That's the way it goes! 

 

[Guest]

We fight this here too. Even I have a grumbling attitude occasionally. We talk about it and explain why we need to help one another cheerfully and share what the Bible says about our heart attitude and acts of service. We work together and I try to model what I want to see in them.

 

Rinse and repeat.

[Ausmumof3]

I think your kids are typical but also wrong. Cleaning up after yourself is not being a mum it's being a responsible decent human being. When mine whine about the fact they weren't the last to get it out they get a run down on all the many many things of theirs I've picked up over the years that weren't mine finished with people all get to help each other at different times.

 

Hope you are feeling better soon. Being sick is horrible and you hope your kids are going to have a bit of feeling for you and help out not make it harder.

[mamiof5]

I wanted her to put the milk and cereal away and wash her dishes, as we don't have a dishwasher and she eats breakfast at a time different from everyone else. (Being sick, I haven't been as strict about bedtimes and she's staying up late reading and rising later than my early rising almost six year old and two year old.) If it sits in the sink until I do lunch dishes, the cereal gets stuck on and it's very difficult to clean.Once you've rinsed it, it's not that much work just to finish cleaning it, but she feels like I'm treating her like an adult, since I wash her younger brothers' dishes with them "helping" me but I want her to do it alone. I need to get stricter about bedtime: I'm just the sickest during the evening and night and barely have energy to cajole the two year old to bed.

I hear you on the cereal issue, we don't use our dishwasher. I really hope you feel better soon!!! I thought the kids' ages were on your signature, I'm missing more kids :). Just hope kids help you more (the ones who can), and you recover very soon!

[Garga]

Actually, I've been thinking about this. My 10 year old still acts horrified whenever we give him a chore to do, but my ds13 doesn't make too much fuss anymore. Once in a while he will, but mostly he just gets up and does what we ask. Well...eventually. Sometimes he gets up 10 minutes later and then forgets why he got up and we have to remind him, but there isn't the arguing anymore.

 

And about 15% of the time, he does things on his own.

 

So, I have to give credit where credit is due. Up thread I commiserated with you, but it's actually getting better here. A bit. At least the attitude is mostly gone for ds13.

 

Ds10 still mopes and gets upset at having to clean up after himself, but I have high hopes that he'll come around eventually.

 

Your kids most likely will, too. It just takes a solid decade and a half of training...just a tiny commitment, you know. :)

[Katy]

Sorry you're sick.  I'm just getting over something too and my house is pretty much a disaster.  My overflowing trashcans of kleenex alone are pretty disgusting.

 

Some tips for kids and cleaning:

• Tell them now that you're going to implement a new toy system when you're better so they will only have access to three toys at a time.  They should think about which toys they love most and want left out for now. Sets of things (a puzzle, legos) count as one thing.  Multiples of anything (multiple Barbie doll things like cars and houses) are at your discretion as to whether they count as one or individually.  Tell them to think about their favorite 3 things.  Perhaps this is one lovey, one creative toy (blocks or legos or bracelet making set), and one physical toy (basketball, skates, scooter, etc).  Perhaps it's just the inside junk and you substitute an iPad for the physical thing. When you're better get a bunch of boxes (clear plastic shoeboxes for 88 cents from Walmart work well for smaller things, $3 boot boxes for medium things, storage bins or cardboard for larger things. Sort.  Leave out their choice of 3 toys.  Put the rest out of reach for at least a week.  Maybe two.  Maybe they get to swap for a reward for good behavior. Maybe they can swap one toy every Sunday.  I don't count books or art supplies, but you can if you want.  Move them to under a bed.  Move them to an attic.  Put up hooks in the hallway or garage for everyone's coats, empty the coat closet, and turn it into toy storage. Just remove access to the chaos, and everyone will be less overwhelmed.
• Make a rule that they are only allowed to play with ONE toy at a time.  That way no matter what, cleanup never takes more than two minutes.
• Try to change your own attitude about cleaning.  You're resenting cleaning, and they're picking up on that if nothing else, and they resent it too.  Announce from now on you will all clean 4 times per day.  Everyone will be cleaning together until every dish and toy are clean, dry, and put away.  If tween doesn't wish to eat and clean with the rest of you, she may get her own breakfast and wash her own dishes.  If not, she will either go hungry or eat with the rest of you without the attitude or she will lose the privilege of eating at a different time.
• If child doesn't put away a toy when asked, the toy will be arrested and go to toy jail.  When toys are in jail they cannot come out until they are bailed out by doing two additional chores.  It really helps to time how long it takes to put the toys away first so they know it takes two minutes to put the toy away, but it takes ten minutes each to sort the dirty laundry, swiffer the floors, wash the baseboards, wash the mirrors, scrub the shower, or whatever other chores you choose that take about ten minutes each and are age appropriate.
• When you have your group cleanup times, set a timer for ten minutes. Everyone will have to work together to get everything done, but if all tasks are completed in less than the ten minutes you all get a reward to share.  It could mean for every minute saved by cleaning quickly, they get to play a minute longer before bed time.  It could mean one extra minute of story reading at night.  It could mean tween gets to sleep in one minute longer in the morning.  OR you could vote to save the minutes.  When you get to a specified number (20?) you all get a reward, perhaps going out for ice cream.  There should be lists of what chores belong to which times (trash cans are emptied every afternoon around 3 in this house), so there is no arguing about what gets done when or whose fault it is it wasn't done and the minutes were missed.  The group reward ensures kids will be watching each other and checking each other's work to make sure they don't miss out. 
• After you've gone a solid month without complaining about cleaning, institute a rule where it is not allowed to complain about cleaning.  Enact consequences.  This doesn't mean they can't come to you, politely, later to talk about something regarding cleaning that they think should change.  Maybe their friend's mother uses something different to clean and it will be better.  Maybe they noticed their younger brother doesn't do the same chores they did at his age and it's not fair because he is capable of them.  Polite discussion is tolerated, whining and complaining and face making is not. We all deserve to live in a clean home, you are part of this family, and you will be part of caring for this family.
• Make it a routine, even if this means printing a schedule and setting alarms on your phone. Make different schedules for weekends. If they know every weekday we do morning chores at 8, midday chores after lunch but before play, afternoon chores at 4, and nightly chores at 7, they'll get used to that structure and stop complaining.  I find kids much more likely to whine when my demand for them to do something comes when they were expecting something else. If DD's favorite Saturday cartoon is on, we can push cleanup time half an hour for that cartoon. We can also make it earlier on Sundays for church. Do whatever works for you, but stick to the schedule system for at least 6 weeks.  After that you can be more flexible - announce tomorrow we're going to clean up later than usual, or earlier than usual to meet this appointment, for example.  But make sure you tell them at least twice in advance if you stick to the no whining rule.

[Tsuga]

Our kids are the same age.

 

I feel your pain. UGH.

 

My mom, when overwhelmed, did occasionally do a thing where she wouldn't toss the toys but put them all in kitchen garbage bags for storage. We got them back in batches and if they didn't get cleaned up, they stayed in the bag and went to Goodwill. I think she decluttered a lot that way! If you use smaller bags it's manageable. That can solve the problem in the short term--"I can't live like this!" she would say--and in the long run we also learned that we didn't need most of those toys.

[RioSamba]

(((Mrs. Weasley)))

[nd293]

I'm sorry...

 

This is a battle I've more or less won. A couple of ideas that might help:

- Be relentless about them putting things away when they are finished with them. Call them back when something hasn't been done, even if they are now watching TV, heading out the door, getting into the shower.

- Make sure things are picked up before you leave the house, even if it makes you late for where you're going (works best got THEIR appointments).

- Have everyone clean up together. For the last 5 years I've assigned used a system where I tell them to pick up and put away a certain number of things each - I'll do 50, and kids get a number by age. 50 to 100 items put away in their correct place takes only 15-20 minutes and makes a massive difference.

- Don't engage in debate or drama. Just repeat what needs to be done.

- Expect this to take years of consistent patenting. I guess it took 3 or more years for them to realise meant business and wasn't going to change my mind about them tidying up after themselves. They still need reminding, but they have a good attitude about it. It's a fight worth fighting!