What do you think will happen to college in the next 10-20 years??

[3 ladybugs]

Okay this weekend I went and looked online at schools I think I would want to encourage my son to go to if all things are equal when he is ready for that. I like to look at the big picture to make sure I am on track in the little picture of today.  It honestly freaked out DH as we are not saving nearly enough for him, but hey, we have 11 years or so! Anyway, we mentioned to my in-laws that we did this, and they said they didn't think colleges would look the same as they do now when DS is ready for college. Their thinking is there is going to be a student loan bubble and this will have a BIG impact on all education, I guess. Then DH and I were talking and we both sort of agree that a college degree today is worth about the same as a high school diploma 30 years ago. That we have had to dumb down everything in public institutions that that is why you need a college degree to do something as remedial as flipping burgers (may be an exaggeration there but not much of one). 

 

So what are your thoughts? Do you think there is going to be a big change, relatively soon, in the college system? If so, what do you think you can do if your child you know will need a college degree to do what they want to do in life?

[maize]

I think the education sector in general changes very slowly.

 

I do think we will see more incorporation of online learning, perhaps in a blended model (students learn the material through online modules then meet together with a professor for discussion/practice/labs).

 

I don't think we will see a bubble burst but I do think tuition increases will slow down/colleges may offer more aid/scholarships.

[madteaparty]

I think you will see more kids going abroad to save $, but the numbers will not be sufficient to make a dent and thus very little will change.

Eta that I currently hope my children will go to Europe for an undergrad degree and back to the US for grad school. We don't qualify for any sort of aid.

Edited January 4, 2016 by madteaparty

[Bluegoat]

I think there will be some significant changes.  Many post-secondary institutions are in financial difficulties already, and so there may well be a number that cease to exist.  I also think there will be some significant changes in attendance and people will be more often persuing different career paths.  Here in Canada, I've seen some of this already, despite the fact that the costs for university here are more managable.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't think there will be much of a change.

 

 

[3 ladybugs]

I think you will see more kids going abroad to save $, but the numbers will not be sufficient to make a dent and thus very little will change.

Eta that I currently hope my children will go to Europe for an undergrad degree and back to the US for grad school. We don't qualify for any sort of aid.

I joke with DH that the money we are spending now on German classes is really just pre-paying college in Germany.  :laugh:  :laugh:  He should be able to pass that test for not needing any more testing to go to German university (he will still need the other academic proof but he should be fluent in German to not need German classes) if he goes all the way through his German school. But I don't want him over there for 4 years. Nor do I think he could go straight there as Germany doesn't recognize homeschooling (I already get strange looks now!). 

 

I think CC will drop the age requirements and admit 12 year olds, who will be taking classes at the old high school level, which is now called AP and is being phased out in favor of full inclusion. Us will continue as is, with an increasing number of international students.

 

If you live in a state where you must pay for CC and transport to the CC for middle or high schoolers because you cant access anything at that level in the school district, you should consider lobbying your representatives to provide appropriate education, at the level of instructional need, for ALL compelled students.

 

Students that need aid will take the old fashioned route...working & saving for five years before attending as independent students, or co-op.

That would be nice but I think I have a better chance of seeing pigs fly then I do of seeing this state pay for high school/middle school students to go to CC, regardless if I have to drive him or not! (Legal unrestricted driving age is 18 in this state.)

[bettyandbob]

I think we've already had the big student loan bubble. People will still take out loans, but they are starting to really evaluate how much loan for which school and degree.

 

I don't see a lot of change. Change in higher Ed takes time.

 

Colleges and universities are already doing online courses. Many states have agreement systems between the universities and community colleges. It has become accepted that many people start at the cc and transfer. The university closest to me now accepts up to 75 credits in transfer toward a degree.. They work closely with the local cc, so if you plan well you might only have to pay for three semesters of university.

 

While I don't see higher Ed changing tremendously, I see the path some students taking changing.

--there will be more students trying for degrees in foreign countries.

--there will be more students who get vocational certifications at cc and proceed to work without further study.

--there will be students who pursue vocational certification and take time off school to save and plot out finishing a 4 year degree part time.

 

I think there will be impact in 30 years. One impact will be less attachment to a campus. That's going to change alumni giving.

[madteaparty]

In my volunteer travels currently I met an American student studying at Sciences Po in Paris (selective uni)--it's a three year program so that saves cost right there.

I also met a prof at a Swiss science uni which has a 5 year undergrad/masters program, taught, eventually, in English, and the cost for which was lower than I currently pay for all DS outside classes in middle school ;)

Edited January 4, 2016 by madteaparty

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

 

That would be nice but I think I have a better chance of seeing pigs fly then I do of seeing this state pay for high school/middle school students to go to CC, regardless if I have to drive him or not! (Legal unrestricted driving age is 18 in this state.)

 

They sort of already do this where I am.  Here a high school student can take college courses that are either free or heavily discounted. 

[Roadrunner]

I would say in CA community colleges used to be for weaker students or those returning to school. I see now CCs being an answer for all general ed and being more central part of education.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I think an Associates degree today is about the equivalent of previous generations (mine) H.S. Diploma.  I think more states are going to look at what TN is doing with free CC and give it a try too.  I think that regular people will continue to struggle with mounting education debt while Universities continue to jack prices but eventually there will be a tipping point and the state government will have to step in. 

[DawnM]

Well, I graduated from college in 1988 at the age of 22.  In the last 25 years since I have graduated, things have changed a lot.

 

1. Online classes offered.

2. Night classes and satellite campuses in multiple locations

3. Some schools offering "life experience" credits

4. Cost has skyrocketed in many schools

 

However, our family still values education.  We may just need to find alternatives to the traditional 4 year,  live on campus school.

 

Our family has a few options:

 

1. Start at Community College

2. Go to the local 4 year state school and live at home.

3. Mom goes back to work full time to help pay for child to go away to school.

4. Child takes out loans to cover the extra costs.

 

We don't know yet what options we will choose, although oldest is starting at CC in a week as a dual enrollment student.

[Ailaena]

I think CC will drop the age requirements and admit 12 year olds, who will be taking classes at the old high school level, which is now called AP and is being phased out in favor of full inclusion.

CCs (at least in AZ and CO) don't have age requirements. You take the placement test and away you go!

 

All I know is that 10ish years ago in my field (bio/chem), I could get a job with just an undergrad degree and feel somewhat good about advancing in the field. Now, unless I want to make $10-12/hr, I need a PhD. And even then, there is a glut of bio PhDs out there, making pay quite low.

 

Which I why I switched to software engineering :D However, even in that field people are valuing experience over education.

 

So really, I think that schools will have to provide more opportunities to gain experience, maybe offering classes where you create a final project instead of sitting for a final exam. I recently had a couple of CS classes that did this, and dd has had a couple of engineering classes that did this, but not nearly enough.

 

 

 

Eta: associate's degrees seem to be completely pointless. Having one did not make me more employable 15 years ago, and it doesn't make dd more employable today.

 

Not that they aren't without value, seeing as many classes are usually transferable to state universities!

Edited January 4, 2016 by Ailaena

[Ethel Mertz]

We are looking at a community college for two years and then another 2 years with distance learning at one of our state universities (which has partnered with the local community college). Total cost for 4 years: $30K.

[DawnM]

We are looking at a community college for two years and then another 2 years with distance learning at one of our state universities (which has partnered with the local community college). Total cost for 4 years: $30K.

 

Oh, yes, and this.....many CCs are now offering 4 year degrees through some sort of deal with the state schools.  I don't think our local one has, but I know in CA, several had even in the 90s.

 

PS:  that is about the cost of going to school at our local 4 year college for 4 years with tuition, books, fees, and such......roughly $7,500/year, or $30K for 4 years.  We are budgeting $40K to include transportation and any incidentals or tuition hikes.

Edited January 4, 2016 by DawnM

[DawnM]

CCs (at least in AZ and CO) don't have age requirements. You take the placement test and away you go!

 

All I know is that 10ish years ago in my field (bio/chem), I could get a job with just an undergrad degree and feel somewhat good about advancing in the field. Now, unless I want to make $10-12/hr, I need a PhD. And even then, there is a glut of bio PhDs out there, making pay quite low.

 

Which I why I switched to software engineering :D However, even in that field people are valuing experience over education.

 

So really, I think that schools will have to provide more opportunities to gain experience, maybe offering classes where you create a final project instead of sitting for a final exam. I recently had a couple of CS classes that did this, and dd has had a couple of engineering classes that did this, but not nearly enough.

 

 

 

Eta: associate's degrees seem to be completely pointless. Having one did not make me more employable 15 years ago, and it doesn't make dd more employable today.

 

Not that they aren't without value, seeing as many classes are usually transferable to state universities!

 

 

It really depends on what it is in.  There are many 2 year degrees that land jobs.  Dental Assistant, Dental Hygienist, Mechanical work, Nursing, etc....

 

Just to go for General education classes and get an AA, no, but if it is specific, it might be valuable.

 

My oldest has some special needs and is going for a 2 year degree in a specialized area.....that should be all he needs.

[umsami]

I live in Florida and apparently they require H.S. kids (public school) to take one online course from the virtual school to prepare them for college. (Florida has one of the oldest state wide virtual schools.)  I do think we'll see more and more classes like that, but to what degree, I don't know.  My guess is there will be still some sort of hierarchy regarding quality of institution.  

 

I can see more and more community college models where perhaps the first two years of university are mainly online courses, and then as you move to more specialized courses, you have more in-person courses.  

 

Do I really think tuition will change?  I hope so, as it increased so much....but I doubt it.

[maize]

Here's what's going to happen:

 

Right after I get my last child's final semester tuition bill paid, and after I have shelled out tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dollars, the college tuition bubble will finally burst, the government will step in, and college will be free for everyone. Right after I'm broke, of course. (LOL)

 

Eta: Can you tell I'm spending my day today paying tuition bills for two colleges and putting down the acceptance deposit on a third??? (groan)

 

No, no, no! I looked at the age of your youngest and that won't be soon enough for me ;) 

[Garga]

Okay this weekend I went and looked online at schools I think I would want to encourage my son to go to if all things are equal when he is ready for that. I like to look at the big picture to make sure I am on track in the little picture of today.  It honestly freaked out DH as we are not saving nearly enough for him, but hey, we have 11 years or so! Anyway, we mentioned to my in-laws that we did this, and they said they didn't think colleges would look the same as they do now when DS is ready for college. Their thinking is there is going to be a student loan bubble and this will have a BIG impact on all education, I guess. Then DH and I were talking and we both sort of agree that a college degree today is worth about the same as a high school diploma 30 years ago. That we have had to dumb down everything in public institutions that that is why you need a college degree to do something as remedial as flipping burgers (may be an exaggeration there but not much of one). 

 

So what are your thoughts? Do you think there is going to be a big change, relatively soon, in the college system? If so, what do you think you can do if your child you know will need a college degree to do what they want to do in life?

 

 

It's a lovely idea, but don't count on it.  My dh has been saying this for a long time, "Oh it'll burst before we have to worry about it!" but we only have 4.5 years to go and I don't see anything bursting yet.  DH can be a bit of a dreamer about things like that.  :)

 

You can dream, but you'd better be prepared for paying lots of money and there to be lots of loans.  Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

[redsquirrel]

I think the cheaper institutions will be having ever larger, ever more anonymous online classes with no personal attention or direct instruction.  These will serve for more and more of at least the first two years of a four year degree.  You think some of these places are a 'degree mill' now? It's going to get even worse.

 

The more expensive private institutions will continue to offer direct in-person instruction. That will be their selling point. I think this will only serve to reinforce the two (or maybe even three at this point) tier system of college education that we have now. If you want to actually be taught by a person, you will have to pay for the luxury.

 

[idnib]

Our school district has a charter school that has partnered with the local CC so that students graduate from high school with an AA degree in addition to their high school diploma. Maybe we'll see more of these as well?

 

ETA: I do see tuition continuing to increase but the rate of the increase slowing down. I don't think the bubble will burst soon.

Edited January 4, 2016 by idnib

[EmilyGF]

I don't think top institutions will lower their prices until the demand gets lower... and it hasn't, yet. I do think a number of places will go under, but it won't be the ones that currently accept <10-15% of applicants, especially since foreign students who can pay their whole way without financial aid are vying for what are currently very few slots.

 

Emily

[MBM]

The universities with large endowments will have to dole out some of the money to students if the federal government goes after them again.

 

For kids who don't go to those schools, they will likely have to do the 2 and 2: community college and then state school.

 

More online options might be made available, too.

[flyingiguana]

I just found my mom's yearbook from the 40's.  They listed their "ambition" under their picture.  I couldn't find a single one whose ambition was to to go to college, except my mom.

 

There were a couple girls who wanted to be a nurse or a teacher, so I suppose they might have been heading for college.  But the boys were all aspiring to be things like "mechanic" or "machinist".

 

Actually most of the girls wanted to be a secretary or a housewife.  My mom only wanted to finish junior college.  She never did start.  She ended up as a secretary and a housewife.  She did tell me at one point that her major in high school was typing.

 

It was a different world back then.

[creekland]

Some less attractive schools will likely go under.  Others won't really change much IMO.  People have talked about the bubble bursting for years, but as long as foreign students are willing to come here to school and often pay full price, why should anything change?

 

Night and online classes will still be offered since schools are expanding options to increase funds, but I doubt they will ever replace b&m totally.

 

I expect the majority of employers to continue wanting degrees even if not needed for their job.  I blame that on the dumbing down of high school coupled with the higher number of degreed applicants to choose from.  Why not take "better" if it's available?

[Guest]

I still see a whole lot of people sending kids off to colleges with something close to blinders on for what the cost is. One thing I *think* I see with the local public HS is this scenario: parents are not that involved with the kid's college planning; they figure that's what the guidance counselors are for. So the GC at the school chooses schools for the kid to apply to without taking CoA into consideration much or at all. He or she matches the student with schools based largely on what the kid says ("I want to go to school where it's warm!") and based on grades and likelyhood of acceptance. So the kid gets into colleges that are 1200 miles away and $40k-$50/yr CoA. And the parent just accepts this.

 

I live in an affluent area and the "ballfield talk" I continuously hear is sorta like this:

"Delainey is going to Penn State in the fall."

"Oh! That's a great school...but sooooo expensive!"

"Yeah, it is. Shockingly so. And our son is already at Northwestern."

"That's where my son is applying! Oh, soooo expensive!"

"I know, right? It's insane....Hey, we're going out for pizza after the game. Do you want to come, too?"

"Sure!"

 

;)

 

So, what I'm saying is, I don't think a major change is going to happen until the *majority* of parents simply refuse this model, either by decision or necessity. At present, too many parents (at least in this region) complain out of one side of their mouths while on the other they are writing whatever check is required for the kid to go to his dream school. I even remember my SIL marveling at the effort and input I had over DD's college choices. She said, "We never did any of that stuff. (college visits, research, reading, etc.) Our kids just came home and said they wanted to go to X and we applied."

[Guest]

I think an Associates degree today is about the equivalent of previous generations (mine) H.S. Diploma. I think more states are going to look at what TN is doing with free CC and give it a try too. I think that regular people will continue to struggle with mounting education debt while Universities continue to jack prices but eventually there will be a tipping point and the state government will have to step in.

The state government has already stepped in. In-state public school are quite a good bargain (depending on the desirability), at least where I live. (I have no knowledge of the structures in other parts of the country.) I don't see where free CC would make much difference in that those who are planning to start or complete at CC are not people who were probably going to an expensive Uni otherwise. Those currently attending CC, whether it is free or not (not free here) are most often going there for one of two reasons, or both: a) to save money on the total cost of a degree; b) they don't have the necessary stats to go directly to Uni.

 

Personally, I don't want CC to be free. Inexpensive, yes, and offering scholarships for excellant students, yes, but not free, because if there is no obstacle to going for anyone at all, then a degree from CC will be even more devalued than it already tends to be. It will be equivalent to going to high school in an average district.

[idnib]

Personally, I don't want CC to be free. Inexpensive, yes, and offering scholarships for excellant students, yes, but not free, because if there is no obstacle to going for anyone at all, then a degree from CC will be even more devalued than it already tends to be. It will be equivalent to going to high school in an average district.

 

Something can be free and yet still have an obstacle to attending.

[Reefgazer]

I'm not sure and this is totally just my thoughts, but I can see fewer people going to college when they realize the expensive education they are paying for is not being delivered as expected (for a variety of reasons).  I see higher ed going the way of public K-12 education (community colleges are already essentially grade 13-14, so the trend just has to inch toward the 4 year universities).  I think we'll be seeing more and more people becoming independent businesspeople so that they don't have to rely on some pre-determined and arbitrary education credential or large company to make a living.  I also think this trend will be moved along by the fact that the money just.is.not.there. for many people. 

[3 ladybugs]

I need hubby to get a job in a state that you can get a 4 year degree for $40K! Here it is at least double that! I asked my mom this morning if she thought it would be cheaper send DS to BYU (picked at random, we are not LDS) or to our state school. She correctly guessed BYU!! Yeah! At least there I wouldn't have to worry (as much) about him drinking... I would hope. 

[Reefgazer]

I see this happening, as well.  It will further widen the class divide that already exists in this country.

I think the cheaper institutions will be having ever larger, ever more anonymous online classes with no personal attention or direct instruction.  These will serve for more and more of at least the first two years of a four year degree.  You think some of these places are a 'degree mill' now? It's going to get even worse.

 

The more expensive private institutions will continue to offer direct in-person instruction. That will be their selling point. I think this will only serve to reinforce the two (or maybe even three at this point) tier system of college education that we have now. If you want to actually be taught by a person, you will have to pay for the luxury.

 

[Bluegoat]

The state government has already stepped in. In-state public school are quite a good bargain (depending on the desirability), at least where I live. (I have no knowledge of the structures in other parts of the country.) I don't see where free CC would make much difference in that those who are planning to start or complete at CC are not people who were probably going to an expensive Uni otherwise. Those currently attending CC, whether it is free or not (not free here) are most often going there for one of two reasons, or both: a) to save money on the total cost of a degree; b) they don't have the necessary stats to go directly to Uni.

 

Personally, I don't want CC to be free. Inexpensive, yes, and offering scholarships for excellant students, yes, but not free, because if there is no obstacle to going for anyone at all, then a degree from CC will be even more devalued than it already tends to be. It will be equivalent to going to high school in an average district.

 

There are quite a few countries where post-secondary education is free, and those qualifications are not in any way devalued.  Often they are getting a much better quality education.

[Guest]

Something can be free and yet still have an obstacle to attending.

I guess? But we were talking about it being free or not free to attend.

[Guest]

There are quite a few countries where post-secondary education is free, and those qualifications are not in any way devalued. Often they are getting a much better quality education.

*shrug* That isn't true in the US. I don't think you can wave a magic wand, make all college free in the US, and automatically assume all the social factors will be the same as in Finland or wherever. My kid could be in the free high school right now, and my youngest could be at the free elementary. The schools here are good to excellant by the usual measures. Yet it isn't what I want for them at this time, so I go to considerable cost (in every sense of the word) to have different schooling for them. Price is clearly not the only factor.

[Bluegoat]

*shrug* That isn't true in the US. I don't think you can wave a magic wand, make all college free in the US, and automatically assume all the social factors will be the same as in Finland or wherever. My kid could be in the free high school right now, and my youngest could be at the free elementary. The schools here are good to excellant by the usual measures. Yet it isn't what I want for them at this time, so I go to considerable cost (in every sense of the word) to have different schooling for them. Price is clearly not the only factor.

Yes, they might be free and suck.  But that is not the same as sucking because they are free, or what you specifically said, which is that they would be devalued.

[Bluegoat]

One thing that may make a difference is that post-secondary education - of all kinds - being out of reach for many will kill the economy.  The main reason most countries with cheap or free education have that is not some sort of desire to be nice, it is because they know it is important to have a skilled workforce, and that an educated population in the broader sense makes for a better society.

 

A few people have mentioned increasing numbers of foreign students taking up slots, and it is the case that universities are recruiting those students to keep their numbers up.  But that is not going to contribute to the good of the nation.

 

At some point, there may just be an absolute need to make sure people are employable, whether that is the state stepping in in some way, or perhaps employers giving on the job training or even coursework directly instead of looking for institutions to train workers.

[idnib]

I guess? But we were talking about it being free or not free to attend.

 

I was just talking about what Bluegoat was talking about. 

 

:)

[DawnM]

*shrug* That isn't true in the US. I don't think you can wave a magic wand, make all college free in the US, and automatically assume all the social factors will be the same as in Finland or wherever. My kid could be in the free high school right now, and my youngest could be at the free elementary. The schools here are good to excellant by the usual measures. Yet it isn't what I want for them at this time, so I go to considerable cost (in every sense of the word) to have different schooling for them. Price is clearly not the only factor.

 

Wasn't Obama talking about making CC free?

 

That isn't posted to be political, just as a matter of fact.

[Guest]

Wasn't Obama talking about making CC free?

 

That isn't posted to be political, just as a matter of fact.

Yes.

[MomtoCandJ]

I wish community college was free (Georgia has the Hope program that I used to get my pharmacy tech certification) or at least more scholarships to earn to make it free/cheaper for adults. The state of Michigan has nothing for adults returning to college unless you go through Michigan Works and you need to be on unemployment to qualify (well for my county anyways and I heard many other counties are the same way). The Hope program in Georgia had some qualifications you had to meet but they were doable.

[bettyandbob]

 

So, what I'm saying is, I don't think a major change is going to happen until the *majority* of parents simply refuse this model, either by decision or necessity. At present, too many parents (at least in this region) complain out of one side of their mouths while on the other they are writing whatever check is required for the kid to go to his dream school. I even remember my SIL marveling at the effort and input I had over DD's college choices. She said, "We never did any of that stuff. (college visits, research, reading, etc.) Our kids just came home and said they wanted to go to X and we applied."

This is something I don't understand. My own parents made decisions based on the cost of college back in the 70s. I pretty much gave kids the same parameters: go to school in state and we will make sure you don't have loans. When you consider the variety of institutions in state there's no reason not to seriously consider it. (2 public ivies, nationally ranked engineering, near the beach, in the mountains, rural, urban, 2000 students, 40,000 students ; I honestly think with all these characteristics available there's no reason not to consider in state). And yet my dc have friends who never even toured a campus in state. These kids have parents complaining about the costs. Some of the private and out of state schools these kids go to are not ranked higher than schools in our state.

 

The former governor (and democratic presidential candidate) of Maryland is an example of a parent not going through the costs with kids. He and his wife funded very expensive private universities. Now they have scary personal debt. His dd's dont work in lucrative fields or in fields which require name recognition from the school, the ROI of those degrees is beyond lousy. And the guy haps two younger sons.

 

Why don't people think and explain reality to their dc, rather than say dc should go where ever they want.

[Reefgazer]

I agree with Quill on this one.  Education and the value people place on it, and how hard people work for it, varies by culture and country.  In the USA, it would be devalued even further, although I can certainly see that that is not the case elsewhere.  I see people at the college where I teach tell me flat out that they are only there because their parents tell them it's college or a job and they don't look at the lessons/material between classes, others attend because they feel they need to do something for a promotion (but aren't really concerned about getting good grades or actually learning - they just skating by in order to get the credential), and others tell me that they can collect a living allowance from some employer or government program if they just maintain a "C" average and so they take easy courses to get their allowance (which puzzled me when they showed up in my biology class, until I realized it was required for whatever joke of major they were pursuing).  Nope, free isn't the way to go in the USA. 

There are quite a few countries where post-secondary education is free, and those qualifications are not in any way devalued.  Often they are getting a much better quality education.

 

[Reefgazer]

I understand that the bolded is absolutely true, but a degree doesn't necessarily mean you get an educated workforce out of the deal.  It means someone has pushed through people who can not or will not put in the time and effort to really learn and become educated because they don't actually value education at all; they just want a  job where they can put in as little as possible and get out maximum rewards and the degree (with solid learning behind it or not) is just a means to an end.  In the USA, there are many who have devalued higher ed already by demanding that they be given the degree without the expertise that it connotes. 

 

ETA:  I would absolutely support heavily subsidized education for someone who demonstrates that they are serious about learning.  Given the current state of higher ed and the administrative push for a high pass rate and high graduation rate at all costs, I can't see how that would honestly or legitimately play out on college campuses in the USA.  And there needs to be a clear understanding that college isn't "free"; *someone* is paying for it and that needs honestly noted upfront, as well.

One thing that may make a difference is that post-secondary education - of all kinds - being out of reach for many will kill the economy.  The main reason most countries with cheap or free education have that is not some sort of desire to be nice, it is because they know it is important to have a skilled workforce, and that an educated population in the broader sense makes for a better society.

 

A few people have mentioned increasing numbers of foreign students taking up slots, and it is the case that universities are recruiting those students to keep their numbers up.  But that is not going to contribute to the good of the nation.

 

At some point, there may just be an absolute need to make sure people are employable, whether that is the state stepping in in some way, or perhaps employers giving on the job training or even coursework directly instead of looking for institutions to train workers.

 

Edited January 5, 2016 by reefgazer

[SparklyUnicorn]

I still see a whole lot of people sending kids off to colleges with something close to blinders on for what the cost is. One thing I *think* I see with the local public HS is this scenario: parents are not that involved with the kid's college planning; they figure that's what the guidance counselors are for. So the GC at the school chooses schools for the kid to apply to without taking CoA into consideration much or at all. He or she matches the student with schools based largely on what the kid says ("I want to go to school where it's warm!") and based on grades and likelyhood of acceptance. So the kid gets into colleges that are 1200 miles away and $40k-$50/yr CoA. And the parent just accepts this.

 

I live in an affluent area and the "ballfield talk" I continuously hear is sorta like this:

"Delainey is going to Penn State in the fall."

"Oh! That's a great school...but sooooo expensive!"

"Yeah, it is. Shockingly so. And our son is already at Northwestern."

"That's where my son is applying! Oh, soooo expensive!"

"I know, right? It's insane....Hey, we're going out for pizza after the game. Do you want to come, too?"

"Sure!"

 

;)

 

So, what I'm saying is, I don't think a major change is going to happen until the *majority* of parents simply refuse this model, either by decision or necessity. At present, too many parents (at least in this region) complain out of one side of their mouths while on the other they are writing whatever check is required for the kid to go to his dream school. I even remember my SIL marveling at the effort and input I had over DD's college choices. She said, "We never did any of that stuff. (college visits, research, reading, etc.) Our kids just came home and said they wanted to go to X and we applied."

 

That was definitely not my experience.  I very much got the impression my guidance counselor made recommendations based on cost.  I can't imagine what other reason there would have been for him recommending that I apply to a CC "just in case" since I had good grades.  

 

Also, my school did host information nights for financial aid/college information.  My parents did not go, but I know they had that.  My parents figured there would be no way for me to go (for financial reasons). 

 

[Ailaena]

It really depends on what it is in. There are many 2 year degrees that land jobs. Dental Assistant, Dental Hygienist, Mechanical work, Nursing, etc....

 

Just to go for General education classes and get an AA, no, but if it is specific, it might be valuable.

 

My oldest has some special needs and is going for a 2 year degree in a specialized area.....that should be all he needs.

 

Excellent point, and I apologize for forgetting about those things. Except for nursing, I tend to think of those as certificate programs, but yes, you're totally right.

 

I always encourage kids who don't want to go to college to enroll in their district's vocational schools. Kids can get certified in all kinds of different areas and actually have a job out of high school. Dd has a friend who really, really wanted to be a hairdresser. Instead of dropping out of school, she graduated high school with the necessary requirements to cut hair. And 3 years later, she is totally happy and making her bills.

 

Our state universities here have a guaranteed transfer agreement with the CCs, which is nice, but transfer students don't have the same scholarships available to them as to incoming freshmen, so :/

[Guest]

Excellent point, and I apologize for forgetting about those things. Except for nursing, I tend to think of those as certificate programs, but yes, you're totally right.

 

I always encourage kids who don't want to go to college to enroll in their district's vocational schools. Kids can get certified in all kinds of different areas and actually have a job out of high school. Dd has a friend who really, really wanted to be a hairdresser. Instead of dropping out of school, she graduated high school with the necessary requirements to cut hair. And 3 years later, she is totally happy and making her bills.

 

Our state universities here have a guaranteed transfer agreement with the CCs, which is nice, but transfer students don't have the same scholarships available to them as to incoming freshmen, so :/

But this is often logical and still a bargain, because getting a big scholarship to go to an expensive school as a Freshman doesn't make the total cost cheaper than shaving two years off the full expense by going to CC.

[3 ladybugs]

I am seeing the words "once we put a value on an educated workforce..." I have a question on that. Don't we have many people in this country, in fact almost a culture of putting down the well educated?

 

I was the first one in either side of my family to go to college and graduate with anything. I have a 2 year degree. When I wanted to get married, I wanted a well educated person. I was a requirement for me. So I married someone who had a PhD and who came from first generation highly educated family (his mother has a masters, his father has a masters and a PhD). I have had some issues in my family because they are frankly intimidated by my highly educated husband, not terrible issues, but snide remarks here or there. My own family I can tell has issues with high education. I should note that my mom has went and got her 4 year degree since I got my degree, but she is seen as not the norm in many ways in the family.

 

Then I think of popular culture, we have shows like "The Big Bang Theory" which to me, make fun of education. I have tried several times to watch that show, but I can't as I knew people that were like that and to me that show makes fun of them.

 

Europe is a much different animal. There culture isn't one that devalued the prize of education. It was one where people went there TO get educated.

 

So to me, it is no wonder we are in the mess we are in. We are telling young people to get a degree then make fun of them for doing just that!

[DawnM]

I am seeing the words "once we put a value on an educated workforce..." I have a question on that. Don't we have many people in this country, in fact almost a culture of putting down the well educated?

 

I was the first one in either side of my family to go to college and graduate with anything. I have a 2 year degree. When I wanted to get married, I wanted a well educated person. I was a requirement for me. So I married someone who had a PhD and who came from first generation highly educated family (his mother has a masters, his father has a masters and a PhD). I have had some issues in my family because they are frankly intimidated by my highly educated husband, not terrible issues, but snide remarks here or there. My own family I can tell has issues with high education. I should note that my mom has went and got her 4 year degree since I got my degree, but she is seen as not the norm in many ways in the family.

 

Then I think of popular culture, we have shows like "The Big Bang Theory" which to me, make fun of education. I have tried several times to watch that show, but I can't as I knew people that were like that and to me that show makes fun of them.

 

Europe is a much different animal. There culture isn't one that devalued the prize of education. It was one where people went there TO get educated.

 

So to me, it is no wonder we are in the mess we are in. We are telling young people to get a degree then make fun of them for doing just that!

 

 

Not from what I can see.  But my growing up was vastly different than yours.  I came from a family of highly educated people, back at least 3 generations.  I don't know much beyond that.

 

I don't see Big Bang as making fun of education, in fact, there are jokes about one of them "only" having a masters and not a PhD.

 

I also don't know of anyone who makes fun of higher education.  

[DawnM]

Excellent point, and I apologize for forgetting about those things. Except for nursing, I tend to think of those as certificate programs, but yes, you're totally right.

 

I always encourage kids who don't want to go to college to enroll in their district's vocational schools. Kids can get certified in all kinds of different areas and actually have a job out of high school. Dd has a friend who really, really wanted to be a hairdresser. Instead of dropping out of school, she graduated high school with the necessary requirements to cut hair. And 3 years later, she is totally happy and making her bills.

 

Our state universities here have a guaranteed transfer agreement with the CCs, which is nice, but transfer students don't have the same scholarships available to them as to incoming freshmen, so :/

 

 

Yes, this is definitely true.  In fact, a lot of HS families allow their kids to get dual enrollment, but only enough credits to "prove themselves" but not enough to make them enter school as a Sophomore.   They have to be entering freshman to get certain scholarships.  

[creekland]

I am seeing the words "once we put a value on an educated workforce..." I have a question on that. Don't we have many people in this country, in fact almost a culture of putting down the well educated?

...

 

Then I think of popular culture, we have shows like "The Big Bang Theory" which to me, make fun of education. I have tried several times to watch that show, but I can't as I knew people that were like that and to me that show makes fun of them.

 

This totally depends upon the people/culture you're hanging out with.  I've seen those who put down education in general (even high school) and those who merely put down Ivy education (though they probably can't name all 8 schools correctly).  For that latter group, Penn St is the best college out there - or maybe whoever tops the football poll that year.

 

But there's another group too.  Those folks have expectations that their offspring will graduate from college unless there is something major barring the way.  Some of these insist on Top 10 or Top 20 schools and some merely insist upon the degree from somewhere "worthy."  (Should note hubby and I are in that last group.)  Many of these (not us) look down upon anyone who doesn't have a degree.

 

You think TBBT makes fun of education???  We identify with many of those characters and generally LOVE the show (except when they think s_x is the be all, end all, like the last episode of this season or when Penny/Leonard were going back and forth).  Folks in my IRL circle (almost all college educated individuals, many with advanced degrees) share our love.  They're actually the ones who clued me in to the show's existence.  This is the first I've heard of anyone not liking it due to the perception of making fun of education.  I've only heard about folks not liking it/watching it due to the high s_x content before, and even they lamented that aspect because with the little they'd seen of it, they enjoyed the comedy.