Virginia Schools Closed Over Islamic Lesson Dispute

[vonbon]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/19/us/lesson-on-islam-shuts-down-virginia-school-district.html?_r=0

 

Students in a geography class at Riverheads High School in Staunton, Va., had been asked to try their hands at copying a passage known as the shehada, or declaration of faith in Islam, which translates to, “There is no God but God, and Muhammad is the messenger of God.â€

 

Laurel Truxell, a student in the class, told an NBC affiliate in Charlottesville, Va., that in addition to the calligraphy exercise students were also asked to try on a hijab, or Islamic head scarf, and pose for pictures.

 

She refused to put on the hijab at first but “the teacher pushed and pushed and pushed so I did it,†she said. Her parents called the school to object after Laurel was told a picture of her wearing the head scarf would be submitted to the yearbook, she said.

 

*****

 

Wow.  Wonder if the PC Police would be out in force if the passage had been pulled from other religious texts or if students had been asked to try on yarmulkes or crosses?  

 

Interesting times we're living in.  Thoughts?

[TranquilMind]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/19/us/lesson-on-islam-shuts-down-virginia-school-district.html?_r=0

 

Students in a geography class at Riverheads High School in Staunton, Va., had been asked to try their hands at copying a passage known as the shehada, or declaration of faith in Islam, which translates to, “There is no God but God, and Muhammad is the messenger of God.â€

 

Laurel Truxell, a student in the class, told an NBC affiliate in Charlottesville, Va., that in addition to the calligraphy exercise students were also asked to try on a hijab, or Islamic head scarf, and pose for pictures.

 

She refused to put on the hijab at first but “the teacher pushed and pushed and pushed so I did it,†she said. Her parents called the school to object after Laurel was told a picture of her wearing the head scarf would be submitted to the yearbook, she said.

 

*****

 

Wow.  Wonder if the PC Police would be out in force if the passage had been pulled from other religious texts or if students had been asked to try on yarmulkes or crosses?  

 

Interesting times we're living in.  Thoughts?

How the heck is that ok as an assignment, to write "There is no God but God, and Muhammad is the messenger of God"? in public schools?   

 

You are right.  Imagine the outroar if students had to copy a biblical passage or try on crosses or yarmulkes?

 

[Joker]

I think having to write passages such as those is crossing a line. Oldest did several papers and lots of research on Islam the first semester of school this year but she wasn't forced to write passages or wear anything. She also did just as much research on Judaism and Christianity. There was also a bit of research on Hinduism and Buddhism. Not a single person complained and I feel she learned a lot.

[vonbon]

Long-time lurker and new to posting.  Maybe I should have posted this on the Chat Board instead--sorry.  Contacted an administrator--maybe they will move it.  

[Tsuga]

I find this unbelievable. To make that statement is to convert. What is going on in Virginia???! That is insane.

 

Why do these things always happen in these random little places? Like my sister's small town, totally conservative, solid red state, has more restrictions for fear of lawsuits and less Christmas fun than our solid blue suburb. Why? This has never made sense to me.

[Tanaqui]

IF that's what happened, then I find it all very troubling. However, we often hear stories along these lines, and then when more information comes out we discover that everything has been blown way out of proportion, with some details flatly made-up. And when I look at the quotes - specifically "“This evil has been cloaked in the form of multiculturalism" - I wonder if that is, in fact, what happened here.

 

Additionally, I take issue with the closing quote:

 

 

“I just felt uncomfortable learning about it in a world geography class,†she told the television network. “You shouldn’t teach religion in school unless you’re in a religious class.â€

 

Obviously children should not be taught how to worship or what to believe in public schools. However, it does no harm and a great deal of good to simply be taught "Muslims believe in one god. Their creed says this. Observant Muslims are expected to do these five things", alongside "Hindus believe this" and "Christians believe that" and so on. In this world, it is increasingly important to understand what our neighbors believe.

[shawthorne44]

Even if you assume this was blown way out of proportion, it is still incomprehensible.  This is a public school.   There shouldn't have been any mention of Islam.  Since this was a geography class, maybe if they learned which was the predominant religion in each location they studied.  But, nothing about any religion.  

[Tsuga]

It looks to be from the NY Times. I wonder if the teacher did not realize the implications of copying those words. It is a Really Big Deal in Islam to repeat that statement. I would not say it or allow my kid to copy it. Could they truly be so naive though?

[Tsuga]

Even if you assume this was blown way out of proportion, it is still incomprehensible. This is a public school. There shouldn't have been any mention of Islam. Since this was a geography class, maybe if they learned which was the predominant religion in each location they studied. But, nothing about any religion.

No, sorry, religion is an integral part of human behavior and they teach about world religions in schools all over the US. You can't tell students what to believe but we can and do tell students what people actually believe and how it affects how they live.

 

You could not teach Western Civilization or US history without teachin about Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, period.

[Joker]

Even if you assume this was blown way out of proportion, it is still incomprehensible. This is a public school. There shouldn't have been any mention of Islam. Since this was a geography class, maybe if they learned which was the predominant religion in each location they studied. But, nothing about any religion.

I don't agree with this. My dds have been in public school since middle school and in two different states. They have both studied world religions in history classes and no one has ever complained. Focusing on only one would be problematic but I don't see the issue with learning about and discussing many in the context of history.

 

Oldest is in AP World History and her textbook and study guide both discuss religion.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Joker

[Tanaqui]

Even if you assume this was blown way out of proportion, it is still incomprehensible. This is a public school. There shouldn't have been any mention of Islam. Since this was a geography class, maybe if they learned which was the predominant religion in each location they studied.  But, nothing about any religion.

 

We learned about world religions in world history class growing up. I promise, none of us changed religion because of it. Teaching about religion is not at all the same as telling children "you must believe this", in the same way that teaching about condoms is not the same as telling children "go out and have sex now!" and teaching about the Holocaust is not the same as telling them to murder others.

 

I find this unbelievable. To make that statement is to convert. What is going on in Virginia???! That is insane.

 

Only if you say it with sincere belief and the intention to be a Muslim. The words themselves have no magical conversion power.

 

NOT that I think the students should have been coerced to write it except perhaps as an answer to the specific question "What is the statement of faith for Muslims?" However, you can't accidentally convert. You have to intend to change religion.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Tanaqui

[Reefgazer]

I don't see anything wrong with teaching about the beliefs of a particular religion in a public school classroom, but it's a very hard line to walk between teaching about and promoting.  You can be sure if this were Christianity or Atheism, the sh*t would hit the fan and the ACLU would be flapping their wings over it.  What I think is a gross over-reaction is closing the school.  Are you kiddin' me?!?!? Over an errant lesson?  *eye roll*

[Reefgazer]

It's fine in this spot; it's an educational topic of general interest.

Long-time lurker and new to posting.  Maybe I should have posted this on the Chat Board instead--sorry.  Contacted an administrator--maybe they will move it.  

 

[HomeAgain]

I find the situation so frustrating.  And I cannot understand the people that are saying it is terrible, a forced statement, conversion, whatever else their minds dream up to be offended about.

 

Seriously?  It is no more conversion than making a Christmas tree ornament.

 

Arabic is a language that is infused with religion.  There is a hard time getting away from religion IN the language.  I find it an acceptable assignment, and I would encourage my child to do it so as to understand different cultures.  People that claim to be "Christian" but are up in arms about this are not doing their religion any favors by making such a mountain out of an ant hill.  If the class was learning about Hinduism, I'd expect hands on projects for that, too.  If the class was learning about Ancient Greek gods, I'd expect hands on projects there, too.  Heck, my 6th grade class split into a Roman caste system for a week to understand it - we did not become Roman.

 

Silliness.  And social media.  Never a good combination.

[Ravin]

They could have chosen a less controversial Arabic phrase to try writing, for sure.

 

When we learned about world religions in high school, there was no calligraphy or fashion lesson involved. The basic tenets of each religion were discussed, and the influence on culture of each religion in the parts of the world where they were dominant. This was in small town Texas in the 1990's. We learned what the Q'uran was, what the Five Pillars of Islam were, and how Muslims preserved much of ancient Greek scholarship, especially in math. We learned a bit about Islamic art and architecture. That was about it.

 

In today's climate, I do think a discussion of things like hijab is good, because it impacts everyday life for many Americans. The "walk a mile in another person's shoes" thing is good, too. But if it's simply thrown at the students without context, such that they think what they are doing means something it does not (like converting), then obviously the lesson isn't accomplishing much.

[Reefgazer]

I don't have a problem with the assignment itself; I appreciate kids learning about different cultures and religions.  But I do object to people who can't manage to extend that tolerance to the teaching of Christianity, or atheism, or any other religion.

I find the situation so frustrating.  And I cannot understand the people that are saying it is terrible, a forced statement, conversion, whatever else their minds dream up to be offended about.

 

Seriously?  It is no more conversion than making a Christmas tree ornament.

 

Arabic is a language that is infused with religion.  There is a hard time getting away from religion IN the language.  I find it an acceptable assignment, and I would encourage my child to do it so as to understand different cultures.  People that claim to be "Christian" but are up in arms about this are not doing their religion any favors by making such a mountain out of an ant hill.  If the class was learning about Hinduism, I'd expect hands on projects for that, too.  If the class was learning about Ancient Greek gods, I'd expect hands on projects there, too.  Heck, my 6th grade class split into a Roman caste system for a week to understand it - we did not become Roman.

 

Silliness.  And social media.  Never a good combination.

 

[Guest]

.

 

Seriously?  It is no more conversion than making a Christmas tree ornament.

 

.

 

^^This is incorrect.

 

The Shahada is THE statement of faith. Saying it sincerely is how you make yourself Muslim. There's no baptism or any such other thing. The Shahada is it.

 

It GOES WITHOUT SAYING that kids doing it for school did not actually convert, surreptitiously or otherwise, because the "sincerely" part of the above is paramount. But it was a pretty dumb thing to do. Hopefully the teacher did not fully grasp the significance of the Shahada.

 

To the person who said "Islam should never be mentioned in schools," Islam is a thing that exists in the world, yanno? A geography class is exactly where I'd expect a passing familiarity with major world religions to be given to students.

[shawthorne44]

^^This is incorrect.

 

The Shahada is THE statement of faith. Saying it sincerely is how you make yourself Muslim. There's no baptism or any such other thing. The Shahada is it.

 

It GOES WITHOUT SAYING that kids doing it for school did not actually convert, surreptitiously or otherwise, because the "sincerely" part of the above is paramount. But it was a pretty dumb thing to do. Hopefully the teacher did not fully grasp the significance of the Shahada.

 

To the person who said "Islam should never be mentioned in schools," Islam is a thing that exists in the world, yanno? A geography class is exactly where I'd expect a passing familiarity with major world religions to be given to students.

 

Really?  I find that shocking.  In a Geography class?   Like I said earlier, I could see them learning that in X place the predominant religion is Y.   But, I wouldn't expect them to study the religion or to write out prayers, regardless of whether it is the Shahada or the Lord's Prayer.  

[Haiku]

There shouldn't have been any mention of Islam.  Since this was a geography class, maybe if they learned which was the predominant religion in each location they studied.  But, nothing about any religion.  

 

State standards require that students learn about other religions, and this is a good thing. There is nothing wrong or scary about people learning about other religions. Indeed, educated people should know what the world's religions believe. I can't imagine how anyone could argue otherwise.

 

Using the statement of faith may or may not have been a bad idea. I don't know how Muslims would feel about people copying it with no intention of converting. If Muslims don't have a problem with it and don't think that these students are suddenly converts, I see no problem. I learned the five pillars of Islam in high school. I learned "there is no god but Allah, and Mohammad is his prophet," but I didn't suddenly become Muslim or even believe the words were true. I taught my children the five pillars of Islam. Amazingly, they didn't suddenly become Muslim.

 

But I think people are missing the point here.

 

These schools were shut down because of threatening messages the school district received about this lesson.

 

It apparently was not enough for people to express their disapproval. They had to threaten people's safety over it. That, to me, is what's most unfortunate about this situation: that people would threaten violence over their kids learning about another religion.

[Guest]

Really?  I find that shocking.  In a Geography class?   Like I said earlier, I could see them learning that in X place the predominant religion is Y.   But, I wouldn't expect them to study the religion or to write out prayers, regardless of whether it is the Shahada or the Lord's Prayer.  

 

Where would expect them to learn what those words....Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Shamanism, Buddism....meant so they'd know what they referred to when the textbook said, "Islam is the dominant religion in Saudi Arabia.?" Even SOTW tells a little (tiny) bit about different religions....and that's for primary school kids.

Edited December 18, 2015 by OKBud

[Guest]

 

 

But I think people are missing the point here.

 

These schools were shut down because of threatening messages the school district received about this lesson.

 

It apparently was not enough for people to express their disapproval. They had to threaten people's safety over it. That, to me, is what's most unfortunate about this situation: that people would threaten violence over their kids learning about another religion.

 

ding ding ding ding

[albeto.]

I don't see anything wrong with teaching about the beliefs of a particular religion in a public school classroom, but it's a very hard line to walk between teaching about and promoting.  You can be sure if this were Christianity or Atheism, the sh*t would hit the fan and the ACLU would be flapping their wings over it.  What I think is a gross over-reaction is closing the school.  Are you kiddin' me?!?!? Over an errant lesson?  *eye roll*

 

According to the school website, 

 

"While there has been no specific threat of harm to students, schools and school offices will be closed Friday, December 18, 2015. All extra-curricular activities are likewise cancelled for tonight, Thursday, December 17, through the weekend. We regret having to take this action, but we are doing so based on the recommendations of law enforcement and the Augusta County School Board out of an abundance of caution."

 

I have the impression the closing of the school isn't in response to the assignment, but in anticipation of violence by pissed off xians. 

 

ETA: Tara beat me to it.

 

What do you mean about the ACLU flapping their wings if this were about xianity or atheism? I don't understand that comment. 

Edited December 18, 2015 by albeto.

[Tsuga]

We learned about world religions in world history class growing up. I promise, none of us changed religion because of it. Teaching about religion is not at all the same as telling children "you must believe this", in the same way that teaching about condoms is not the same as telling children "go out and have sex now!" and teaching about the Holocaust is not the same as telling them to murder others.

 

 

Only if you say it with sincere belief and the intention to be a Muslim. The words themselves have no magical conversion power.

 

NOT that I think the students should have been coerced to write it except perhaps as an answer to the specific question "What is the statement of faith for Muslims?" However, you can't accidentally convert. You have to intend to change religion.

Well, I would agree that yours is a reasonable interpretation that any moderately intelligent person of faith from any religion would make.

 

In my experience however when dealing with religious issues you can't count on moderately intelligent people making reasonable interpretations to be at the forefront of the discussion. They seem to get drowned out. Unfortunately I have met people for whom Jihad and the apocalypse / end times are not metaphors for inner struggle but a call to arms and I am cautious about what I say.

[HomeAgain]

Even SOTW teaches the 5 Pillars and has students do a Shahadah project.  It is what I would expect when learning about cultures - yes, in with geography where they can understand the people who live there.

[Tsuga]

Really? I find that shocking. In a Geography class? Like I said earlier, I could see them learning that in X place the predominant religion is Y. But, I wouldn't expect them to study the religion or to write out prayers, regardless of whether it is the Shahada or the Lord's Prayer.

I would agree about writing out prayers.

 

However I think such a surface treatment of religion once you get past the parrot stage would be an insufficient education.

 

Oh and let's bring up another thing... It's considered blasphemy to leave words of the Qur'an on the ground or put them in the trash. About how many of those children treated that script with minimum reverence required by Islam?

 

So many wrong things about this but not leaning about world religions.

[Soror]

Personally I have no issue with learning about other religions, I took a world religion class in college and planning on covering various religions next year in the context of our geography study. I think it remiss not to mention religion in Geography class at the high school level. I also have no issue with the burqa or any other clothing there for people to try on- if they want- but I think copying a(the?) Muslim statement of conversion crosses the line. Just as I would think it inappropriate for students to copy, "Jesus Christ died for my sins and I accept him as my Savior." Now, having questions about religions asking the tenets of various faiths it would be of course be appropriate to say, Muslims believe this.... and Christians believe that. Copying either statements as if they are one's own beliefs when they are not are problematic but I have no issue with learning about them. The way it was done or portrayed to be done makes it sound more like the students themselves believed this rather than they were learning about what others believe and in the area of personal beliefs I think we should make sure to tread lightly as to not make others feel they are violating their conscious or beliefs.

 

It however certainly changes things that the school was shut down not because they were taught these things but that they were threatened because of it, it seems a a bit hypocritical IMO especially with all the vitriol these days that all Muslims are violent.

Edited December 18, 2015 by soror

[Tanaqui]

In my experience however when dealing with religious issues you can't count on moderately intelligent people making reasonable interpretations to be at the forefront of the discussion. They seem to get drowned out. Unfortunately I have met people for whom Jihad and the apocalypse / end times are not metaphors for inner struggle but a call to arms and I am cautious about what I say.

 

In this particular case, judging from the article, it looks like all the extremism is coming from non-Muslims. "It's connected to jihad because that's what they say when they kill Christians!" Really? Seriously, that's the argument? Of all the ridiculous things to say.''

 

Oh and let's bring up another thing... It's considered blasphemy to leave words of the Qur'an on the ground or put them in the trash. About how many of those children treated that script with minimum reverence required by Islam?

 

That is also a fair and valid point.

 

Really?  I find that shocking.  In a Geography class?   Like I said earlier, I could see them learning that in X place the predominant religion is Y.   But, I wouldn't expect them to study the religion or to write out prayers, regardless of whether it is the Shahada or the Lord's Prayer.

 

What good does it do to learn "the predominant religion is Y" if you don't know what followers of that religion believe? How can you understand the Protestant reformation if you don't understand the basics of Christianity? How can you understand Gulliver's Travels if you don't know that the "big egg/little egg" controversy was a riff on transubstantiation, and why that's important? How can you have any understanding of the Crusades if you don't know what Muslims and Christians believe? How can you understand the Sepoy Mutiny if you don't know why it would matter if the cartridges were kept dry with beef and pork fat? How can you understand current events, such as the whole thing with ISIS, without a basic grasp of world religions?

 

Religion is HUGE. If you don't understand what people believe, how can you understand their actions?

 

And it's not just things from far away or long ago, either. You need to have a basic grasp of major religions to understand what's going on in our own country as well.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Tanaqui

[Reefgazer]

This is what I think is asinine - closing a school because someone is pissed off and has their panties in a wad.   

 

Explanation of the second bolded statement:  The ACLU would not let the ten commandments fly as a teaching tool without flapping about it, so I fully expect them to be in the mix here over a religious statement being used as a teaching tool.  But I bet they won't appear.

According to the school website, 

 

"While there has been no specific threat of harm to students, schools and school offices will be closed Friday, December 18, 2015. All extra-curricular activities are likewise cancelled for tonight, Thursday, December 17, through the weekend. We regret having to take this action, but we are doing so based on the recommendations of law enforcement and the Augusta County School Board out of an abundance of caution."

 

I have the impression the closing of the school isn't in response to the assignment, but in anticipation of violence by pissed off xians. 

 

ETA: Tara beat me to it.

 

What do you mean about the ACLU flapping their wings if this were about xianity or atheism? I don't understand that comment. 

 

Edited December 18, 2015 by reefgazer

[EmseB]

According to the school website, 

 

"While there has been no specific threat of harm to students, schools and school offices will be closed Friday, December 18, 2015. All extra-curricular activities are likewise cancelled for tonight, Thursday, December 17, through the weekend. We regret having to take this action, but we are doing so based on the recommendations of law enforcement and the Augusta County School Board out of an abundance of caution."

 

I have the impression the closing of the school isn't in response to the assignment, but in anticipation of violence by pissed off xians. 

 

ETA: Tara beat me to it.

 

What do you mean about the ACLU flapping their wings if this were about xianity or atheism? I don't understand that comment. 

 

I'm sort of gathering the district would not like to answer the questions being posed about the assignment.  I doubt, without specific threats, there is an anticipation of violence.

 

No specific threats, but we're closing the whole district?  Either they are lying about not receiving threats, or they are way over reacting to understandable uproar about kids being asked to write out that specific statement.  Has there never been an uproarious school board meeting before in the history of this district?  Where there might even be...angry parents shouting about stuff?  But to shut the whole district down?

Edited December 18, 2015 by JodiSue

[Tanaqui]

The ACLU would not let the ten commandments fly as a teaching tool without flapping about it, so I fully expect them to be in the mix here over a religious statement being used as a teaching tool.  But I bet they won't appear.

 

This is wrong on two levels.

 

First of all, the ACLU would certainly allow the ten commandments to be used as a teaching tool when teaching the history of Judaism, the culture of the ancient Middle East, or the history of law. It is perfectly allowed to, say, compare and contrast the Decalog to, say, the Code of Hammurabi and/or other ancient law codes (though Hammurabi comes up a lot, as there are many extremely obvious similarities), or to draw links between the Decalog and modern laws.

 

What is NOT okay is to say that the Ten Commandments came down from God at Sinai (though "It is stated in the religious text of the Jews and Christians...." is okay) or that you MUST follow the commandments edit: or that they're the basis of our Constitution. That last is simply false.

 

Second, you seem to feel that the ACLU does not protect all rights equally. But here are some cases which disprove your point: The ACLU takes a Muslim school to court. The ACLU supports the free speech of an anti-Islam group. The ACLU sues for students to wear anti-Islam shirts.

 

And, on the flip side, here are many examples of the ACLU fighting for the rights of Christians.

 

The ACLU is concerned with civil liberties. We don't hear about as many cases where there is too much Muslim influence in education for the simple reason that, in the US, there aren't nearly as many Muslims as Christians. So we hear a lot about the ACLU fighting unconstitutional pushing of Christianity in the schools simply because there's so very many that it's more likely for a community to be 95% Christian (and so not see anything wrong with coerced Christian prayer or Bible distributions or the like) than 95% Muslim.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Tanaqui

[vonbon]

 

In this world, it is increasingly important to understand what our neighbors believe.

 

Completely agree.  Well-stated.  

 

At the same time, there is a lot of public discussion about Separation of Church and State and the particulars about what that looks like in reality for public school students.  New parameters are being set by school districts on phrases like "Happy Holidays" v. "Merry Christmas", "Fall Celebration" v. "Happy Thanksgiving", "Spring Break" v. "Easter Break", ad nauseum.  These used to be fairly benign verbal ways to show good will to others.  Now it seems they've become battle grounds on which to state one's religious beliefs and opinions.  

 

We can't see the big picture / complete context from this article and don't know if this lesson was taught amongst lessons on other religions that were equally explored and fleshed out, complete with "dress-up", props, and yearbook photos.  I think, given the current conditions and recent events in our nation's history, that this educator failed to exercise prudence in choosing a neutral statement to use as an example of calligraphy.  

 

Benefit of the doubt: just an extreme case of oversight and obtuseness.  Maybe the educator truly did not understand or think about the risk of polarizing students and parents in her community over this lesson.  Most people with an inkling of our nation's current events wouldn't have chosen this particular statement, I think.

 

Worst case scenario: ???  Hard to know a person's motives.  Examples of educators pushing their personal agendas on their students are well-documented.  We don't know if she had an agenda or what it would be.  My hope is that the majority of "public servants" aka teachers approach subjects with balance and respect, versus using their classrooms as forums in which to further their personal views and interests.  I fear there might be more of this subjective type of teaching / indoctrination (of all views / beliefs) than we know.  

 

I do see a lot of interesting viewpoints and ideas that seem to be pressed on youth that cross that line of Separation of Church and State, while some really loud squeaky wheels cry against any statements by certain religious groups.

 

And then I read about other events that clearly show students of particular faiths being persecuted or at least suppressed.  (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/student-s-jesus-shirt-sparks-feud-with-school-1.1280427)  [i realize the event in this link took place in Canada vs. the US / different laws, etc.--but there have been many examples like this in the US over the last several years too.]

 

"Tolerance."  "Intolerance."  "Microaggressions."  Lots of labels floating around in public dialogue.  Seems like our nation and our world is going through quite a flux and trying to label / explain / define / describe.  

[albeto.]

I'm sort of gathering the district would not like to answer the questions being posed about the assignment.  I doubt, without specific threats, there is an anticipation of violence.

 

No specific threats, but we're closing the whole district?  Either they are lying about not receiving threats, or they are way over reacting to understandable uproar about kids being asked to write out that specific statement.  Has there never been an uproarious school board meeting before in the history of this district?  Where there might even be...angry parents shouting about stuff?  But to shut the whole district down?

 

Responding to public outcry requires school admin and legal reps, not teachers, and all school staff. I think they're concerned for safety, and they imply this by saying they're closing down the school "based on the recommendations of law enforcement and the Augusta County School Board out of an abundance of caution." Furthermore, I think their concerns are legitimate. It reminds me of the adage, "Gods don't kill people. People with gods kill people." All it takes is one person to feel righteously indignant to cause terror, and our society keeps stirring the pot, contributing to feelings of fear and vulnerability. Fox News reported this. This should come as no surprise that it's the kind of story they pick up on. Seemingly exclusively. They don't pick up on stories of schools in which staff unjustly promote xian beliefs, for example. 

[TranquilMind]

I don't see anything wrong with teaching about the beliefs of a particular religion in a public school classroom, but it's a very hard line to walk between teaching about and promoting.  You can be sure if this were Christianity or Atheism, the sh*t would hit the fan and the ACLU would be flapping their wings over it.  What I think is a gross over-reaction is closing the school.  Are you kiddin' me?!?!? Over an errant lesson?  *eye roll*

Agree on both points.

 

This is definitely proselytizing/promoting.  To say merely that Muslims believe this and that to convert is different. 

 

To close the school is definitely an overreaction as well. 

[TranquilMind]

Responding to public outcry requires school admin and legal reps, not teachers, and all school staff. I think they're concerned for safety, and they imply this by saying they're closing down the school "based on the recommendations of law enforcement and the Augusta County School Board out of an abundance of caution." Furthermore, I think their concerns are legitimate. It reminds me of the adage, "Gods don't kill people. People with gods kill people." All it takes is one person to feel righteously indignant to cause terror, and our society keeps stirring the pot, contributing to feelings of fear and vulnerability. Fox News reported this. This should come as no surprise that it's the kind of story they pick up on. Seemingly exclusively. They don't pick up on stories of schools in which staff unjustly promote xian beliefs, for example. 

That would be "Christian" beliefs, as you well know, and yes, Fox indeed seems to pick up on most religiously-based stories, regardless of content. 

 

I doubt there are many schools left in this political environment where teachers or staff dare to even admit to celebrating a "Christian" holiday today.  They are instructed to be completely secular, even though Christmas is a national holiday.  They have to say things like, "Have a happy winter break" even though the national holiday is Christmas Day. 

[Joker]

That would be "Christian" beliefs, as you well know, and yes, Fox indeed seems to pick up on most religiously-based stories, regardless of content.

 

I doubt there are many schools left in this political environment where teachers or staff dare to even admit to celebrating a "Christian" holiday today. They are instructed to be completely secular, even though Christmas is a national holiday. They have to say things like, "Have a happy winter break" even though the national holiday is Christmas Day.

That hasn't been my experience at all in the two states my dds have attended and where I substitute teach. Both dds have had multiple Christmas parties in their classes. The elementary schools I substitute in have had tons of Christmas themed work. In one school they also had a Hanukkah party.

 

My Facebook feed is also full of pictures from Christmas parties at schools.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Joker

[Dmmetler]

The assignment doesn't bother me except for one thing-it's a high school. We did stuff like that, as a PP mentioned, when DD was going through SOTW (including having a Moslem friend explain her Hijab and why she wore it. We didn't try calligraphy, but DD did learn the 5 pillars). The worksheet seems really trivial for a high school student, who I would expect to actually be doing more in-depth analysis and discussion, not trying to copy words they don't mean in a language they don't understand. It seems, if anything, like trivializing faith and belief at an age where, in many cultures, teens are considered to be or are eligible to be considered full adults in their faith community.

 

I also think this is a lesson which calls for a guest speaker. Ideally someone who actually practices the religion and has studied it in depth, and is able to teach it at an academic level, but at least someone who has the in-depth knowledge and teaching skill. If there's a Mosque, there would be people there, and even if that's not an option, I know good and well that EMU in Harrisonburg has a religious studies department where you would have people who have studied Islam and teach it with respect and understanding-because if they're teaching it at EMU, it is probably after serving a mission in an Islamic country and dealing with the people as individuals for a prolonged time! (Augusta county is close enough to my home town that we got their school closing announcements on the local radio stations.)

 

Edited to add-there is an Islamic center in Harrisonburg that is very involved in Inter-faith and community activities and education (according to my Mother, who is also quite involved in such activities, so, yeah, they could have easily gotten a guest speaker or run their educational materials by someone to get their opinion.

Edited December 18, 2015 by dmmetler

[Tsuga]

In this particular case, judging from the article, it looks like all the extremism is coming from non-Muslims. "It's connected to jihad because that's what they say when they kill Christians!" Really? Seriously, that's the argument? Of all the ridiculous things to say.''

 

 

That is also a fair and valid point.

 

 

What good does it do to learn "the predominant religion is Y" if you don't know what followers of that religion believe? How can you understand the Protestant reformation if you don't understand the basics of Christianity? How can you understand Gulliver's Travels if you don't know that the "big egg/little egg" controversy was a riff on transubstantiation, and why that's important? How can you have any understanding of the Crusades if you don't know what Muslims and Christians believe? How can you understand the Sepoy Mutiny if you don't know why it would matter if the cartridges were kept dry with beef and pork fat? How can you understand current events, such as the whole thing with ISIS, without a basic grasp of world religions?

 

Religion is HUGE. If you don't understand what people believe, how can you understand their actions?

 

And it's not just things from far away or long ago, either. You need to have a basic grasp of major religions to understand what's going on in our own country as well.

In this case the threats were by Christian extremists but my concern over the use of that text is related more generally to extremism.

 

I am lucky to have experienced threats of violence against people I know through work by Muslim, Christian, and Jewish extremists and more tangentially, Hindu extremists and of course let's not forget the good old atheist anarchists who make themselves known through violence often enough to never be completely out of the picture in our fair city.

 

Nobody will ever convince me that it's anything but good old animal human nature and not one religion or even religion, period, responsible for this.

[TranquilMind]

That hasn't been my experience at all in the two states my dds have attended and where I substitute teach. Both dds have had multiple Christmas parties in their classes. The elementary schools I substitute in have had tons of Christmas themed work. In one school they also had a Hanukkah party.

 

My Facebook feed is also full of pictures from Christmas parties at schools.

That's good that you have this freedom.

 

I'm in one of those political battleground states where you really need to keep your mouth shut if you aren't exceedingly politically correct in all forms in any sort of public situation, as dictated by the PC police. 

 

I haven't even looked, since I am not party-aligned, but I suspect that certain political candidates score high on polls here by those who have been shut down. 

Edited December 18, 2015 by TranquilMind

[Petrichor]

My first thought was "poor kids, they were asked to copy out the whole statement of faith?" I wouldn't want to do that if I could avoid it, and I am Muslim. Arabic writing is hard when you're not used to it!

 

Definitely could have chosen a better phrase - "Assalamu Alaikum" (peace be upon you) or even an option for the full "Assalamu alaikum waRahmatullahi waBarakahtuhu" or even just "Allah." But then, like another poster said, treating the paper with respect - not throwing it in the trash or on the floor after writing "Allah" or "waRahmatullahi" on it would have been an issue. 

 

As for accidentally converting, sure, some Muslims might think you can be "tricked" into being Muslim just by saying the shahada, but why care about what those (ignorant) Muslims think? 

 

 

[Tanaqui]

I'm in one of those political battleground states where you really need to keep your mouth shut if you aren't exceedingly politically correct in all forms in any sort of public situation, as dictated by the PC police.

 

And I'm sure you're very brave to be posting so openly here.

 

I'm sure you can cite examples of teachers being reprimanded for saying "Merry Christmas" and the like.

 

[Roadrunner]

The assignment doesn't bother me except for one thing-it's a high school. We did stuff like that, as a PP mentioned, when DD was going through SOTW (including having a Moslem friend explain her Hijab and why she wore it. We didn't try calligraphy, but DD did learn the 5 pillars). The worksheet seems really trivial for a high school student, who I would expect to actually be doing more in-depth analysis and discussion, not trying to copy words they don't mean in a language they don't understand. It seems, if anything, like trivializing faith and belief at an age where, in many cultures, teens are considered to be or are eligible to be considered full adults in their faith community.

 

I also think this is a lesson which calls for a guest speaker. Ideally someone who actually practices the religion and has studied it in depth, and is able to teach it at an academic level, but at least someone who has the in-depth knowledge and teaching skill. If there's a Mosque, there would be people there, and even if that's not an option, I know good and well that EMU in Harrisonburg has a religious studies department where you would have people who have studied Islam and teach it with respect and understanding-because if they're teaching it at EMU, it is probably after serving a mission in an Islamic country and dealing with the people as individuals for a prolonged time! (Augusta county is close enough to my home town that we got their school closing announcements on the local radio stations.)

 

Edited to add-there is an Islamic center in Harrisonburg that is very involved in Inter-faith and community activities and education (according to my Mother, who is also quite involved in such activities, so, yeah, they could have easily gotten a guest speaker or run their educational materials by someone to get their opinion.

High school class! Oh, oh, oh!

[Tsuga]

My first thought was "poor kids, they were asked to copy out the whole statement of faith?" I wouldn't want to do that if I could avoid it, and I am Muslim. Arabic writing is hard when you're not used to it!

 

Definitely could have chosen a better phrase - "Assalamu Alaikum" (peace be upon you) or even an option for the full "Assalamu alaikum waRahmatullahi waBarakahtuhu" or even just "Allah." But then, like another poster said, treating the paper with respect - not throwing it in the trash or on the floor after writing "Allah" or "waRahmatullahi" on it would have been an issue.

 

As for accidentally converting, sure, some Muslims might think you can be "tricked" into being Muslim just by saying the shahada, but why care about what those (ignorant) Muslims think?

Edited December 19, 2015 by Tsuga

[shawthorne44]

In this particular case, judging from the article, it looks like all the extremism is coming from non-Muslims. "It's connected to jihad because that's what they say when they kill Christians!" Really? Seriously, that's the argument? Of all the ridiculous things to say.''

 

 

That is also a fair and valid point.

 

 

What good does it do to learn "the predominant religion is Y" if you don't know what followers of that religion believe?

If you were saying that the predominant religion shouldn't be mentioned at all for that reason, I could be convinced.  But, I don't think that is what you mean.  You don't need to study religions to make use of knowledge of a predominant religion any more than you need to know what reindeer tastes like when learning that people in location Y eat a lot of reindeer.  

 

How can you understand the Protestant reformation if you don't understand the basics of Christianity?

Easily.   One group of Christians got annoyed by the lavish lifestyles of the priests.  Also, Henry the 8th got annoyed he couldn't get divorced again.  

 

How can you understand Gulliver's Travels if you don't know that the "big egg/little egg" controversy was a riff on transubstantiation, and why that's important?

We only read one of the stories, and they explained the politics that it was really about.  But, regardless, I wouldn't expect a literature class to be discussing religion either.  

 

How can you have any understanding of the Crusades if you don't know what Muslims and Christians believe?

Wasn't taught.  I had to self-study as an adult.   I don't think they skipped it deliberately.   They just never covered more than the first third of any book.  In fact, when rules mandated that WWI and WWII be on the World History final, the only thing you had to know about both wars was that the Italians were with us for one, and against us for the other.  

 

How can you understand the Sepoy Mutiny if you don't know why it would matter if the cartridges were kept dry with beef and pork fat?

Sepoy Mutiny?   Your school must have been far superior to the one I attended.   I'd be surprised if more than one of my teachers knew anything about that.   Of course, the crappy history education I received is reason #5 for homeschooling DD.  

 

How can you understand current events, such as the whole thing with ISIS, without a basic grasp of world religions?

You learn about them outside of school.   Either in the childhood education of your religion or on your own as an adult, as I have,  

 

Religion is HUGE. If you don't understand what people believe, how can you understand their actions?

 

And it's not just things from far away or long ago, either. You need to have a basic grasp of major religions to understand what's going on in our own country as well.

 

Edited December 18, 2015 by shawthorne44

[albeto.]

That would be "Christian" beliefs, as you well know, and yes, Fox indeed seems to pick up on most religiously-based stories, regardless of content. 

 

I doubt there are many schools left in this political environment where teachers or staff dare to even admit to celebrating a "Christian" holiday today.  They are instructed to be completely secular, even though Christmas is a national holiday.  They have to say things like, "Have a happy winter break" even though the national holiday is Christmas Day. 

 

Fox doesn't pick up on stories regardless of content. That's the whole thing. They very carefully chose content that supports the delusion of a hostile take over, a "war" on xianity. By ignoring the unequal events of xian bias in representatives of the government (ie, public schools and courts), by ignoring peaceful conflict resolution, by focusing only on stories that can be retold in such a way as to incite fear, you have learned to jump at your own shadows, guided by voices such as Fox News. The lion isn't being targeted, he's falling asleep. There is no "bad guy" here, only society - slowly - changing its collective mind. 

[vonbon]

Had to google xianity.  New term for me.

[albeto.]

Had to google xianity.  New term for me.

 

Welcome to the jungle.

[Haiku]

 

 

Easily.   One group of Christians got annoyed by the lavish lifestyles of the priests.  Also, Henry the 8th got annoyed he couldn't get divorced again.

 

That is not even a remotely accurate way of presenting/understanding the Reformation.

 

[Haiku]

Welcome to the jungle.

 

I hope we get to have another protracted discussion about it.  :glare:

[vonbon]

And I'm sure you're very brave to be posting so openly here.

 

I'm sure you can cite examples of teachers being reprimanded for saying "Merry Christmas" and the like.

 

I don't know about examples of teachers being reprimanded, but I live in a state that could be described the same way.

 

My niece and nephew are in one of the top public school districts in the nation (same state)--7th and 9th grades--and they have both said that they don't feel free to express their religious beliefs--even in a peaceful way or just stated as fact between friends or classmates.  Their administrators have basically banned students from talking about any religious beliefs, period.  I don't think my niece and nephew are exaggerating things.  They're fairly mainstream, level-headed kids from a family with moderate opinions.  They've expressed that this is just the norm in their schools.  The expectation is that they won't share their religious beliefs because teachers and admins fear that it will lead to discord.  

 

I'm not saying this can be "cited" by a court case, media article, etc.  It's just their experience.  They aren't the kind of family to respond in any way that would be officially "cited".  But the message to the students / youth is loud and clear.  

[albeto.]

I hope we get to have another protracted discussion about it.  :glare:

 

Gosh. Me too!

 

 

 

(she said, whilst looking around for a knitting needle to stick into her eye)