Would this bug you too?

[Haiku]

why should I have to "bear" someone else's passive-aggression? 

 

Um, I never said you should. I said *I* do, and I said other people make other choices.

 

Originally, I wasn't clear that the uncle in question had been told frankly to knock it off and wondered whether the uncle really expected the OP's husband to buy him stuff. The OP clarified for me on both points. Now I understand the situation. Personally, I would choose to grit my teeth and bear it. People are imperfect, yada yada. Others will make other choices, and it's really no skin off my nose. I think your (seeming) frustration with me is misguided.

[Garga]

Well, with the new information that the uncle has been told clearly to stop, then I'm a little torn.

 

My first instinct would be to avoid. I just don't have the energy anymore to deal with much from people. I avoid.

 

But...are there any pros to hanging out with this guy? Can you ignore him and enjoy time with everyone else? What about your kids? Is it important to you that they have a relationship with the relatives?

 

These are hard questions to answer. Maybe the relatives aren't worth hanging around. Or maybe they are. What about in times of trouble? Often relatives are the only ones who will help. Should you cut yourself off from that? Or do the relatives have a negative effect on your kids, if they belittle people who work hard and get educations.

 

I can't answer these questions. I have very few relatives who live nearby. I don't even know what most of my uncles look like. I don't even know most of their names. I'm just throwing the questions out there.

 

(My gut feeling is to cut them off, but since I don't have relatives of my own, I might not understand the ramifcations of that.)

[BarbecueMom]

Oh, I forgot to mention, in my own situation with the tech-hating uncle, we usually choose to dish it right back until he moves on. When he starts ranting about drive-thru service and not being able to be physically close to the server or bank teller, we point out that drive-ups and ATMs were probably developed because of creepy old men trying to grope the poor tellers.

 

I wouldn't take the same approach with something personal like money, but just in case he's being a tool shed about other things, it's an option.

[Kim in Appalachia]

Very interesting. DH and his sister were the first in their family to go to college and both finished.

DH is also the only one to move away from the patriarchal family unit that has been established there - to the point that the majority of the family lives either on the same land or the same road. So, I can see how the mentality you mentioned is directly affecting how the uncle views dh. 

I'll have to read Hunger of Memory. 

 

 

Ahh, that's a situation common in the area I'm living in now.  There is deep resentment towards anyone who leaves for an education and job.  It was ok for those who left in order to do factory work.  A large percentage of people from the previous generation here went to Detroit to work in the factories.  That was considered OK, because a man has to provide for his family.  But getting an education and leaving is resented. It is seen as a choice against the family.  There are those who never get over it, and it makes it very difficult for young people to leave because then they are looked down upon, or sometimes even cut off from their family.   

 

I realize your dh hates it, and I would avoid the uncle when you can, but I would probably just put up with it for the sake of family gatherings.  The uncle is not going to change. 

[Southern Ivy]

Well, with the new information that the uncle has been told clearly to stop, then I'm a little torn.

 

My first instinct would be to avoid. I just don't have the energy anymore to deal with much from people. I avoid.

 

But...are there any pros to hanging out with this guy? Can you ignore him and enjoy time with everyone else? What about your kids? Is it important to you that they have a relationship with the relatives?

Dh used to enjoy the uncle. Now, he wants nothing to do with him. It takes a lot to lose DH's loyalty, but when it's gone... 

Aside from his mom and sister, DH has no desire for our daughter (and any other kids we might have) to be raised around the family. They are very materialistic, crass, manipulative, and codependent. It's a very unhealthy family.

He says "there's a reason I moved 4 hours away". 

 

It is a very hard line for us to figure out/draw. 

 

We do go to Christmas Eve gift opening and Christmas Day dinner with this part of the family. The dinner is at this uncle's house. DH tolerates him and he enjoys seeing some of his cousins. And, we still give them a small gift. They're not completely cut out of his life. DH is just aggressively limiting the time. 

There are more than just the money comments, though. Just a lot of passive aggressive baggage that we're getting loaded down with. TONS of back story that would take forever to write. :) 

 

 

These are hard questions to answer. Maybe the relatives aren't worth hanging around. Or maybe they are. What about in times of trouble? Often relatives are the only ones who will help. Should you cut yourself off from that? Or do the relatives have a negative effect on your kids, if they belittle people who work hard and get educations.

Times of trouble? This uncle would take care of himself and that's it. 

We blew a bearing on our car when we went down to visit them. We needed to fix it, but the part would not be available until Tuesday. We had to get home. So we asked the uncle for a tow. Said we'd pay him because it IS a long way to our town. He made up every excuse under the sun. Which is fine. 'Twas his prerogative. But, it was very clear that even if we were just an hour away, he would not be the one to help.

DH finally got a cousin and another uncle to give us a tow. We appreciated it greatly. I  mean, geez. The tow was 8 hours - 4 to our house and 4 back for them. It was not a fun trip for them, I'm sure. But, we also paid them because we appreciated their help. 

 

Later, the "rich nephew" uncle had the audacity to ask us why we didn't ask him for help! :cursing:

Ummm...we DID! You chose to make excuses.

 

Back when I first met DH, his mom had back surgery. Her house was not back-surgery friendly as there was no ramp. "Rich nephew" uncle (MIL's brother) let her stay at his house, but they were incredibly rude about it. Talked about how she'd better not expect them to help her, complained about how long she was staying there, etc. 

I have NEVER experienced such a self-centered person in regards to family. I mean, DH's mom drives me insane, but no body deserves to be treated like that, surgery or no. 

 

So, no. I would never rely upon that side of the family (aside from MIL and SIL) for help. 

I can't answer these questions. I have very few relatives who live nearby. I don't even know what most of my uncles look like. I don't even know most of their names. I'm just throwing the questions out there.

 

(My gut feeling is to cut them off, but since I don't have relatives of my own, I might not understand the ramifcations of that.)

 

Edited to correct font and color. 

Edited December 7, 2015 by Southern Ivy

[wintermom]

I wonder if some of the guilt or dilemma on you and your dh's part is that you are 4 hours away from family and miss (or possibly romanticize?) the positive aspects of it. If you lived nearby, it's possible you'd see less of that uncle and not give it a second thought.

Edited December 7, 2015 by wintermom

[Carrie12345]

Yes, it would bother me.  Even when it's not openly declared in front of me, it bothers me when people make assumptions about our household income. And I've heard about people making assumptions about us to both extremes, lol.  It's tacky and rude and reeks of judgment in most contexts.

 

As far as avoiding that person, I couldn't say.  I don't usually skip family events for the sole purpose of avoiding one person, but there are people with whom I no longer make one-on-one or small group plans.  If there are other circumstances involved, sometimes their presence will push me over to the side of staying home.  Most things have a bigger picture than just one jerk.

[Chelli]

It wouldn't bother me, but then it would take a lot to bother me. I'm very easy-going. I would just make some smart @ss comment to my uncle every time and laugh it off. I don't value very many people's opinions about me (maybe a handful) so even if uncle felt he needed to make rude, snide comments, I wouldn't give it a second thought. Obviously a guy like that or family that would listen to a guy like that, I don't care what they think about me anyway. I'd go to keep the peace with the family I did like and care about.

 

However, if it was dh's family I'd let him make the call about how to deal with his relative. It sounds like he is still seeing the uncle, he's just not going out of his way to see the uncle which is perfectly fine IMO. 

[Southern Ivy]

I wonder if some of the guilt or dilemma on you and your dh's part is that you are 4 hours away from family and miss (or possibly romanticize?) the positive aspects of it. I have the feeling that if you lived nearby, you'd see less of that uncle and not give it a second thought.

Neither DH nor I have any guilt over this. DH moved away 20+ years ago because he saw what it was like. He had lived away from them for a good 15 years before I even met him. 

I'd be perfectly fine just going to MIL/SIL's home and going out to eat for Christmas or for them to come to our home.

I'd be absolutely content to never have my child in that atmosphere. But, as this is DH's family, that is his decision to make. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by romanticize the positive aspects in regards to the uncle? Could you explain? 

 

If we lived nearby, we would still see as much of the uncle (which is not a lot), but it would be a lot harder to do as the family is crazy co-dependent and everything revolves around this uncle's home. We still wouldn't go, but it would be more glaringly obvious when we aren't there which would get the gossips going strong. 

[Southern Ivy]

It wouldn't bother me, but then it would take a lot to bother me. I'm very easy-going. I would just make some smart @ss comment to my uncle every time and laugh it off. I don't value very many people's opinions about me (maybe a handful) so even if uncle felt he needed to make rude, snide comments, I wouldn't give it a second thought. Obviously a guy like that or family that would listen to a guy like that, I don't care what they think about me anyway. I'd go to keep the peace with the family I did like and care about.

 

However, if it was dh's family I'd let him make the call about how to deal with his relative. It sounds like he is still seeing the uncle, he's just not going out of his way to see the uncle which is perfectly fine IMO. 

Exactly. It's definitely not my decision to make. I leave whether we see them or not entirely in DH's lap. Not my immediate family, so not my decision. :) 

[Katy]

MIL is much like your DH's uncle.  She's actually worse, she's a con artist who abandoned her children and is vicious to one of DH's siblings.  We don't know why she resents that one, except maybe that she thinks that one has the most money.

 

We don't really have anything to do with her anymore.  The older she gets the more narcissistic and manipulative her behavior.

 

I actually blocked her on facebook the other day. It was a relief.

 

ETA:  The sibling she is most cruel to has also been most public about rebuking her, telling her to get a job, calling her a liar in front of people she's trying to scam, etc.  The rest of us just avoid her as much as possible.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Katy

[Southern Ivy]

MIL is much like your DH's uncle.  She's actually worse, she's a con artist who abandoned her children and is vicious to one of DH's siblings.  We don't know why she resents that one, except maybe that she thinks that one has the most money.

 

We don't really have anything to do with her anymore.  The older she gets the more narcissistic and manipulative her behavior.

 

I actually blocked her on facebook the other day. It was a relief.

 

ETA:  The sibling she is most cruel to has also been most public about rebuking her, telling her to get a job, calling her a liar in front of people she's trying to scam, etc.  The rest of us just avoid her as much as possible.

That's horrible! :( 

I'm not friends with much of DH's family on Facebook. I just can't deal with the incessant drama. 

[idnib]

It would bother me a bit. I'd probably try and spend less time with the uncle, but not avoid him altogether. I might play along with it and joke about the limo that brought us, my movie star friends, etc. and see if that worked.

[Annie G]

I would avoid comments about whether or not what he says is true, how rich you are are or aren't, and what you can and can't afford, because that just invites argument. Rather, I would consistently respond with something like "Don't you think that's getting a bit old?"

 

You may misunderstand what we say in such situations. We aren't responding at all with any comments about what we can or cannot afford.  Garga just asked if clear boundaries had been set and this is what happens to us with certain family members when we set boundaries. No discussion about money, truth, or what we can or cannot afford ever crosses my lips or dh's.   It's all about setting clear boundaries- and asking 'don't you think that's getting a bit old' isn't setting boundaries. 

 

I actually only posted it to support Southern Ivy- I felt like she and her dh set boundaries and that his folks weren't respecting that. I was merely trying to illustrate that setting boundaries doesn't always fix a problem, but that doing what you think is best for your family is still the right choice. You can't fix other people but you can protect yourself. 

[gardenmom5]

Very interesting. DH and his sister were the first in their family to go to college and both finished.

DH is also the only one to move away from the patriarchal family unit that has been established there - to the point that the majority of the family lives either on the same land or the same road. So, I can see how the mentality you mentioned is directly affecting how the uncle views dh. 

I'll have to read Hunger of Memory. 

 

that's similar to my mother's family.  in fact - some of the land has been in a family member's hands for 150 years.  my grandmother often referred to "our kind of people" (whatever that meant.)  she definitly had the mindset described. 

 

they came here during the war - I've since had some exposure to various relatives of my mother.  words cannot express how glad I am they didn't go back.  (though I think grandmother would have been happier. everyone would be even more messed up.)

[wintermom]

Neither DH nor I have any guilt over this. DH moved away 20+ years ago because he saw what it was like. He had lived away from them for a good 15 years before I even met him. 

I'd be perfectly fine just going to MIL/SIL's home and going out to eat for Christmas or for them to come to our home.

I'd be absolutely content to never have my child in that atmosphere. But, as this is DH's family, that is his decision to make. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by romanticize the positive aspects in regards to the uncle? Could you explain? 

 

If we lived nearby, we would still see as much of the uncle (which is not a lot), but it would be a lot harder to do as the family is crazy co-dependent and everything revolves around this uncle's home. We still wouldn't go, but it would be more glaringly obvious when we aren't there which would get the gossips going strong. 

 

I guess I'm just wondering why you and your dh's decision to limit contact with this uncle seems to cause either of you any worries at all?  It sounds like the right choice.  

[TammyS]

Yes, it would bug me.  We have family members that are the same.  You will never change the way these people think.  If you are lucky, you can tell them to just shut up about it already.  If not, you have to limit contact to an amount you can stand.

[swellmomma]

Yes the comments would bug me, though I would love to be thought of as the "rich" ones than the poor ones (the commentary from certain relatives comes in the form of "if you did what we did you wouldn't be the poor one")  I think you guys are setting the right boundaries.  Unfortunately some people have their heads so far up their arses they can't see what others are telling them about their bad behaviour.

[TammyS]

My response would be, "I wouldn't know."

 

I would treat it as banter and banter back - every time. I would be bothered by it, but I would combat it by bantering back rather than by staying away. I would not let the comments go unanswered. 

 

If it strongly bothers your dh, I don't have any problem with him choosing to avoid the Uncle. The guy is being rude. I wouldn't let him stop me from being at a family gathering that I would like to attend though.

 

I would probably go the opposite way.

 

"Yep, being rich is awesome.  Glad that rich uncle died and left me all his money...oh, wait."

 

It shouldn't even matter if they ARE rich.  It's no one's business, and being rich isn't a sin.

[Southern Ivy]

I guess I'm just wondering why you and your dh's decision to limit contact with this uncle seems to cause either of you any worries at all?  It sounds like the right choice.  

I was just wondering what other people thought, since his mother brought it up this past weekend. That's all. :) 

 

[redsquirrel]

That would get right up my nose.  That is just unbelievably rude and passive aggressive. Good lord, DH and I have college degrees and live fairly solid middle class lives, but dh has family that is well into the upper middle class and I would NEVER make a comment like that EVER.  They travel all over the world on a whim (my in-laws are on a month long tour of Vietnam--again) they drive Mercedes and give them to their kids to drive in high school, new ones, not used.

 

You know what? That is not my world and it is not my business.  I am happy when I see them and that is it. And I know them well enough to know that if I made a comment like that I would get slapped back so fast it would make my head spin.  I would deserve it to.

 

I would do the same that your husband is doing and just minimize contact. What the uncle is doing is inappropriate and he's not going to change. Your husband is under no obligation to visit family just because they are family. There are a few family members we don't interact with because they are pains in the ass. I don't see the problem with that.  Just because someone is an uncle or distant cousin etc doesn't mean I am obligated to put up with crap that I wouldn't tolerate from a stranger.

 

[justasque]

I was just wondering what other people thought, since his mother brought it up this past weekend. That's all. :) 

 

 

Under the circumstances, I would probably try not to get into it any further with your MIL.  "It's not about Uncle being there, it's just that we're pretty busy, MIL, so we're not going to be able to go to that football weekend.  Sorry.  Perhaps you'd like to go with us to the museum next week?"  Otherwise it's just fodder for the gossip mill, which will make the drama worse.  

[Southern Ivy]

Under the circumstances, I would probably try not to get into it any further with your MIL.  "It's not about Uncle being there, it's just that we're pretty busy, MIL, so we're not going to be able to go to that football weekend.  Sorry.  Perhaps you'd like to go with us to the museum next week?"  Otherwise it's just fodder for the gossip mill, which will make the drama worse.  

Yeah, we don't discuss it much. I was gone, so I'm sure as to the entirety of the conversation, but I believe it started with her asking if she and SIL were the only reasons we go to the gift exchange. So, DH answered honestly.

 

If it gets back to the uncle, so be it. I honestly don't think you can make the drama worse, though (other than having it directed at us now). It's like a soap opera over there.  :thumbdown:

[dirty ethel rackham]

I guess I disagree with this boundary then. I don't have a boundary that allows me to live free of 40+ year old narcissistic/passive aggressive men's holiday-time belittlement. Constant? I cut off. Family events? I will put up with a lot for the sake of family.

 

You'd probably have to hit me to make me stay away, or call names.

 

Simply begging for money and calling me rich doesn't touch it.

 

I'm willing to stay at a pass the bean dip level indefinitely for some rude behavior, for family.

 

That is your choice to make.  OPs dh feels differently.  Further backstory revealed here (not just some passive-aggressive behavior about money, but a mean, selfish streak) supports his choice to severely limit contact.  This guy doesn't sound like someone who really values "family" so I probably wouldn't give him the time of day either.