Guest Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 They were grown women, not girls. I just think it's ironic that we don't think men should voice opinions about what women wear, but we can voice our opinions criticizing them for having an opinion. They were not as old as those men by decades. This just reeks of misogyny. I hate the term 'rape culture' but I don't have a better one here. It is just a quick hop from "women shouldn't wear pants that tight" to "she was asking for it". I think talking about it is important. 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 This was the dumbest frickin' segment I have ever seen (I don't watch Jerry Springer, so maybe that's not the worst out there). But what's wrong with these women who are willing to put themselves in the position of being judged by these idiots and agreeing to parade around for the sake of being judged? Maybe they don't think it's a big deal, I dunno. And what kind of a father would sit there judging his DD and DD's of other men? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I feel that way about the majority of what is on TV. (That's why I haven't watched TV in a long time.) Every news channel has its fair share of tripe and foolishness. Well, my friend told me about a relatively new news channel that supposedly isn't as stupid, at least when it's reporting the news (as opposed to opinions). So far she hasn't been able to convince me to sample it. I was talking to my dad yesterday. I wanted a reality check. It wasn't always like this, was it? There used to be a time when America could engage in intelligent discussions about substantive topics. My dad agrees. How it got to this point beats me. Stupid definitely sells. I'm reading a book at the moment called Enlightenment 2.0 which talks about this particular topic. He talks a lot about the nature of rationality and the demands it makes - it's slow, it doesn't work well under poor conditions, it requires close attention, it can bottleneck, it is very language dependent. A lot of our thinking that we do on a daily basis is actually done by shortcuts and and intuition, and it really has to be this way because we could never think each thing through rationally. His thought is that modern society is in many ways unnatural enough that our brain's intuitive functions can really lead us astray, because they are pretty much the same as when we were living in tribal situations. But the more we need to rethink our natural responses, the more time and energy it takes us, and the slower our rational processing goes. So we have created social scaffolding in order to compensate for these kinds of problems - to make what is unnatural come naturally. The reason he thinks things have degraded is that on the one hand, there has been an acceleration of conditions that are not amenable to intuitive though processes, and on the other many of them actually work against rational thought - things like television news or the internet which work against people sitting and working through a complex argument. Politics has increasingly behaved like advertising which tries to bypass rational thought and appeal directly to the intuitive. He definitely identifies with the left, but he thinks the left has made in error in thinking that appealing to people's rationality and will on all occasions will be enough - they need to realize that part of the conservative argument that social scaffolding is actually important if people are going to be able to make good decisions. So - there is a need to rethink our institutions in order to create conditions where people really can rationally consider things like public policy, or the choices people want to make are made easier than the choices they do not want to make. Anyway - I have a few beefs with him, but its an interesting book if you are looking for something to read. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 They were grown women, not girls. I just think it's ironic that we don't think men should voice opinions about what women wear, but we can voice our opinions criticizing them for having an opinion. Wait...what? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoorsy Type Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I think it's about as appropriate as women evaluating men with plumbers crack. Distasteful and tacky, but it doesn't anger me. I don't approve of every fashion out there. I don't expect everyone to approve of what I wear either. Shrug. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Wait...what? I believe that's the "calling out people for being bigots makes you a bigot" argument. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in CT Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I think it's about as appropriate as women evaluating men with plumbers crack. Distasteful and tacky, but it doesn't anger me. I don't approve of every fashion out there. I don't expect everyone to approve of what I wear either. Shrug. Agreed. But it's hard to imagine a TV show comprised of women evaluating men's plumbers' cracks. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SproutMamaK Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 They were grown women, not girls. I just think it's ironic that we don't think men should voice opinions about what women wear, but we can voice our opinions criticizing them for having an opinion. You don't see a difference between publicly leering at people for the purpose of judging their appearance and discussing the merit of a person's words/actions? 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Agreed. But it's hard to imagine a TV show comprised of women evaluating men's plumbers' cracks. And they wouldn't be making jokes about having to take their nitroglycerine tablets... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Agreed. But it's hard to imagine a TV show comprised of women evaluating men's plumbers' cracks. There was once an episode of Designing Women on that topic, but it was mostly about the women feeling uncomfortable seeing it. It wasn't the focus of the episode, just a humorous side thing. And then one of the four characters put and end to it, by reminding the women that the reason their pants come down is because they wear tools on their belts. It was something along the lines of "They have a job to do and its because of the tools of their trade." IIRC that shut the others up. And, I don't agree that women talking about seeing the top of a man's buttocks when he bends over = getting a group of women dressed in leggings to stand and be evaluated/criticized by a group of men on national television. It reminds me more of the opening scene of Mad Men, when Peggy is the 'new girl' in the office and all the men gather around her and tell her to her face what they think of her looks. "hey baby, you should show some more leg, know what I mean?" "You should smile more" Part of the problem with Fox news is that they mix what they consider 'entertainment' with what they consider 'news' on the same channel. In the past, when they have been criticized for similar things, their answer is that it is happening during the 'entertainment' part of the day, not the news part of the day. But they don't try very hard to make the difference obvious, and often have the same people doing both. Fox has also claimed that if something is an entertainment show (like Fox and Friends) then it doesn't have to be fact checked etc. This came up with something a couple years ago when Jon Stewart went after some particularly egregious thing said on that show. Fox issued a statement to the effect of 'this show is entertainment, not news and we can say whatever we like and no one exected anything to be correct". The trick with Fox is knowing what is what...is it actual news or 'entertainment'. So, while it is easy to decry the lowbrow level of discussion for what passes for 'news' I don't think it was intended to be anything but 'entertainment'. Now, why anyone thinks that is 'entertainment' and not 'bone stupid and offensive' is beyond me. But, I don't think that has ever bothered them before. Why should now be any different? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 There was once an episode of Designing Women on that topic, but it was mostly about the women feeling uncomfortable seeing it. It wasn't the focus of the episode, just a humorous side thing. And then one of the four characters put and end to it, by reminding the women that the reason their pants come down is because they wear tools on their belts. It was something along the lines of "They have a job to do and its because of the tools of their trade." IIRC that shut the others up. And, I don't agree that women talking about seeing the top of a man's buttocks when he bends over = getting a group of women dressed in leggings to stand and be evaluated/criticized by a group of men on national television. It reminds me more of the opening scene of Mad Men, when Peggy is the 'new girl' in the office and all the men gather around her and tell her to her face what they think of her looks. "hey baby, you should show some more leg, know what I mean?" "You should smile more" Part of the problem with Fox news is that they mix what they consider 'entertainment' with what they consider 'news' on the same channel. In the past, when they have been criticized for similar things, their answer is that it is happening during the 'entertainment' part of the day, not the news part of the day. But they don't try very hard to make the difference obvious, and often have the same people doing both. Fox has also claimed that if something is an entertainment show (like Fox and Friends) then it doesn't have to be fact checked etc. This came up with something a couple years ago when Jon Stewart went after some particularly egregious thing said on that show. Fox issued a statement to the effect of 'this show is entertainment, not news and we can say whatever we like and no one exected anything to be correct". The trick with Fox is knowing what is what...is it actual news or 'entertainment'. So, while it is easy to decry the lowbrow level of discussion for what passes for 'news' I don't think it was intended to be anything but 'entertainment'. Now, why anyone thinks that is 'entertainment' and not 'bone stupid and offensive' is beyond me. But, I don't think that has ever bothered them before. Why should now be any different? Have you seen the SNL Fox & Friends skits? We pause and rewind to read all of the corrections they scroll through at the end of it. :lol: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junie Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Especially the last guy in the group who was averting his eyes as if he was afraid he'd burst into flames if he looked at a woman dressed in leggings. I wanted to smack him. Why did he even agree to be on that stupid panel???? I'm guessing that the guys on the panel were not given the choice. It's part of their job to do stupid segments such as this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm guessing that the guys on the panel were not given the choice. It's part of their job to do stupid segments such as this one. Pretty sure the Duck Dynasty guy has enough money and clout to refuse this kind of nonsense. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 They asked the guys as fathers, not old men ogling over young women. I think that is a different approach. A lot of dads care about what their daughters wear. I know my dad did, and I'm glad he was that way. Morning news shows are going to do obscure segments on viral trends of all kinds. I don't think it's that big of a deal. Adding a paternalistic angle to the whole thing only makes it creepier. "I'm going to look very closely at this woman's butt and genital region in tight leggings to make sure there's no hint of labia showing and I'm going to pretend she's my daughter." Yeah, sorry. That doesn't make it any better. My guess is that Fox knew it was damn creepy and they did it intentionally for the publicity. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junie Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Pretty sure the Duck Dynasty guy has enough money and clout to refuse this kind of nonsense. Point conceded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Pretty sure the Duck Dynasty guy has enough money and clout to refuse this kind of nonsense. And the third guy is just married to a Fox employee. He *might* be employed by Fox but they introduced him as someone's husband. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historically accurate Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 *raising my hand* Oh trust me, I get on my teen boys constantly about the propiety of their attire. And I have no guilt in trying to raise my boys into visually respectable adults. No guilt intended. What I was thinking about is if you were to sit on a panel judging (for lack of a better word) a group of young men who are NOT your own sons. I can't imagine that ever happening, but apparently it is newsworthy(?!?) for older men to sit and discuss young ladies' attire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I don't spend time noticing anyone's butt cracks because i just don't look at butts. Not my thing. That said, I don't care if it is old geezers from Fox news or hip women from NPR, I don't give a fig what any of them think about leggings, and think that they should really think of something more important on which to burn their brain cells. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I can't imagine a segment on plumber butt, but I have seen plenty of media talking about the guy "fashion" of leaving one's pants halfway down. I guess that is kind of similar to the gal "fashion" of going out in what are essentially pantyhose. I've seen many women pick on the latter and many men pick on the former. And the WTM has had its share of threads about how people are dressed. But I agree, it is not worthy of a segment on the news. Nor is most of what I see there. Which, again, is why I don't watch the news. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Oh, and there are some legislatures that have even proposed laws (not sure if any passed) about guys pulling up their pants. Can you imagine if there was a law proposed about how tight your uncovered leggings could be? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Wasn't there some guy in some Midwest state that wanted to ban leggings? A governor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I wore leggings in honor of this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeganCupcake Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I guess that is kind of similar to the gal "fashion" of going out in what are essentially pantyhose. Can I get a "hear, hear," for a ban on pantyhose? Those things are heinous. Full disclosure: I am wearing a wonderfully comfortable pair of leggings right this minute. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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